Welcome to Open OSR. This is a separate thread is for open discussions of OSR, OSR-adjacent and retro games. You can talk about all OSR (Pre Wotc D&D, & retroclones) & OSR-adjacent (Mork Borg, SWN etc) games without distinction here.There is a general for those who only want to talk about "first decade" D&D or products from Autarch Studios. If that is your preference, you can find that elsewhere.As always, report and ignore any trollingPrevious thread: >>98834858Thread Question:What are some OSR approved Vidya? Is there any material from vidya worth porting to your table?
>>98880167>TQEye of the beholder & dungeon master
>>98880167>What are some OSR approved Vidya?An app for Domains at War is in development. Can't wait to see it!
>>98880167>Is there any material from vidya worth porting to your table?I've been playing MUDs for decades at this point. I've ported several MUD classes over to my B/X game by using the ACKS custom classes rules for balance. Works pretty well, 100% recommend.
>>98880602This is an OSR thread, ACKS is an OSR game, so it's on topic.
>>98880797ACKS is not an OSR game, it has 3e feats. Literally Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization and Alertness and what not in case anyone wanted to think that 3e wasn't a big influence.
>>98880167>TQOrder of the Griffon on the TG16 & the Gold Box DOS games
>Low IQ individual still can't tell the difference between feat chains vs proficienciesOne such case. No others.
>>98880991It has 3e feats and dozens of classes and shitty splatbooks that bloat the system, along with a big emphasis on Rules over Rulings. It's about as anti-OSR as a system could be while having been nominally based on an OSR system.But the biggest thing that makes it not OSR is that the majority of the OSR community has rejected the ACKS fanbase on account of them being primarily nothing but disruptive trolls who can't be part of anything without throwing tantrums and shitting themselves. The only reason they're even tolerated on 4chan is because we tolerate just about anyone here.
>>98880991LMAO Weapon Specialisation is from AD&D 1e you absolute fucking retard. What are you even doing in this thread?
>>98881122I wouldn't try to rationalize the actions of lunatics.Just filter and hide and there's really nothing they can do.
I was going through some old Dragon Magazines, and this little beauty caught my eye.It's the AD&D National Player Rating System.That's right, you could find out the objective measure of how good you are of a player by participating in tournaments and having your player skill quantitatively calculated.
>>98881395The real treasure was this though.The Player Ratings, giving us the exact power level of different people, including a lot of pretty famous TSR figures, including Gary Gygax.Gary wasn't really all that good at playing the game.
>>98881395>>98881415Nerds trying to flex on other nerds in the nerdiest way imaginable.
>>98881481>Bob Blake is the best player in the worldThat's a bit sus, considering he was also organizing the tournaments and even wrote a few of the adventures.>>98881465It was an important feature of nerd courtship in the 1980's. Nerd girls wouldn't even look at you unless you scored over 600,000 points.
>>98881506Whoops, misclicked the wrong first post. Meant to hit >>98881415
>>98881415>The Blumes suckAs expected.
>>98881415>Gary Gygax, TSR>478,525.605>>98881465I'm surprised that TSR employees participated in these tournaments and cared so much about their ratings that they wanted to have them published in Dragon. It feels like a very weird thing to have in your work culture, and I wouldn't be surprised if people didn't try to use it to pull rank on each other.
>>98881630Playing games is one thing. Trying to create a Leader Board of who the best players were is another thing entirely, especially in the context of role playing games.Employees participating in tournaments they're operating, especially subjective tournaments where favoritism from the judges (who are either picked by the employees or are the employees themselves) is a large part of how well you place, feels like narcissistic ego-stroking. It's in the same vein as a band competing in a cover-band contest just so they can award themselves first place and announce that no one in the entire world is as good as they are.
>>98881653>Trying to create a Leader Board of who the best players were is another thing entirely, especially in the context of role playing games.Dude, there are people in this thread showing everyone how many posts they hide. Humans are fucking retarded.
>>98881630It's almost as if You Can Win at RPGs, unlike what 40+ years of storyfaggotry since the Hickmans would have you believe. Not like a storyshitter subhuman who only looks at the pictures of RPG books and can't create a B/X character sheet could ever possibly understand.
>>98881653It was still very early for the tournaments and the conventions were still really small. Like only a few hundred people. They probably didn't have that many non-employee participants who had played enough to get themselves on that current player ratings chart.Less narccissism and more "This worldwide network of players is only a few hundred people, mostly from the midwest, and mostly just the company's own employees." That's not a brag.
>>98881693>70kJesus that's a lot of people.
>>98881506Now I'm curious if he was any good.Anyone run/play a Bob Blake adventure?
>>98880602>It's offtopic.No it isn't. This is Open OSR, so all OSR games belong here. Saying this would make sense if it were some non-OSR shit like 2e being posted, but not ACKS.
>>98881023>It has 3e feats and dozens of classes and shitty splatbooks that bloat the system, along with a big emphasis on Rules over Rulings. It's about as anti-OSR as a system could be while having been nominally based on an OSR system.Yeah, you're thinking of 2e. These are traits of 2e, the Dogshit Edition.
>>98881415>Tim KaskAh yes, the guy so grognard he grogged out over 1e.>>98881506>That's a bit sus, considering he was also organizing the tournaments and even wrote a few of the adventures.Reminds me of the first season of Sword Art Online, where people are trapped in an online game world by the game's developer, and the protagonist realizes that the developer would have to also be one of the players, because that's exactly the sort of thing an egomaniac would do. They couldn't help but want to self-insert themselves and play as an overpowered character.Wanting to play in a tournament where you've read the tournament module is one way to have an unfair advantage. Wanting to play in a tournament where you wrote the adventure is peak though.>>98881796They're okay? Most of Blake's stuff was for competitions, and those have a very specific style to them that makes them try to whittle down how many people can complete them. They're hard and unfair but if that's what you're looking for they do their job.
>>98881780GenCon moved to Milwaukee in 1985, not 1995.That's also when Gygax lost control of GenCon because he left TSR, and TSR owned GenCon. They moved it partly to pull it away from Gygax's home town, but mostly because the convention spaces in Geneva were getting too cramped for GenCon.That's why the numbers also go from less than 5k to steadily growing to 30k, because they had a lot more space and a much more accessible location in Milwaukee.1995 is when TSR went bankrupt. That's why the number crashes.
The OSR has been solved. How did Alexander Macris do it?
>>98881978>Wanting to play in a tournament where you've read the tournament module is one way to have an unfair advantage. Wanting to play in a tournament where you wrote the adventure is peak though.I'd feel bad for him if he wasn't the top player. That would be embarrassing.But, wouldn't Gygax (and other senior TSR employees) have also had to have read the modules beforehand in order to approve them?
>>98882081i really don't know. it's a freak accident of the stars aligning, his personal taste filtering out the usual indie slop, and years of harvesting the absolute best community input. there's a touch of unexplainable auteur craftsmanship to ACKS that goes way beyond raw mechanics, and you just can't replicate that kind of soul. Macris caught lightning in a bottle, and you can't formula solve a miracle
>>98881780>That post-bankruptcy crashReminds me of my favorite bullshit chart.>Just think about it... We could have been playing D&D on the moon by now...
>>98881653Would you respect designers that couldn't win their own tournaments?
>>98881506>It was an important feature of nerd courtship in the 1980's. Nerd girls wouldn't even look at you unless you scored over 600,000 points.>t. Didn't Even ReadPoints in that tournament were negative, the winner was the person with the lowest points score. >>98881623It's the opposite: since the tournaments were unimportant and just a fun thing, nobody minded publishing his score.
>>98882440>Points in that tournament were negative, the winner was the person with the lowest points score. Exactly.I don't think "Win a D&D tournament" is how you find yourself drowning in pussy.
>>98882450kek
>>98882432What's even the point of calling it a competition if the next table over has the guy who wrote the adventure playing it?
>>98882450https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2XGp5ix8HE
>>98882467git gud
>>98882068Wow I fucked that up.
>>98882432How do they dress?
>>98880167>What are some OSR approved Vidya? Is there any material from vidya worth porting to your table?Baldur's Gate 1&2 should be mandatory playthroughs for DMs.There is so much good design in them. You can rip out entire dungeons and use them in games, and I've shamelessly done that in the past to great effect. They're not perfect games, but they do a pretty good job of being a computer version of a very polished game of D&D, and there's a lot of room to consider what works great and what absolutely fucking sucks.They're also a very interesting contrast with BG3. And NWN too, I guess.
>>98880167Early Final Fantasies.
>>98883286>Aerie, my belovedThe most waifu character ever in a western game.
>>98883931That's not Fall-from-Grace.
>>98882551Banger.
>>98880229I really like the Heroic Fantasy Handbook. Planning either a Howardian or Tolkienesque campaign using its rules soon.
>>98884822>>98884823Don't bump the thread, please. Posting is fine, but not bumping.
>>98882551Is this anything like how D&D tournaments worked?
>>98881978What's the best competition adventure?I've done Tomb of Horrors and thought it was okay, but I'm assuming it's the most famous but not necessarily the best.
>>98884823>I really like the Heroic Fantasy HandbookLooks like a splatbook to me, but that’s alright man, this is the cool thread. How is it helping you get closer to Howard and Tolkien? Are you using one of the alternate magic systems?
>>98885735The Heroic Fantasy Handbook is great. It has its own magic system using shaded magic, corruption, spellsinging, and ritual magic. And it has special rules for running a Tolkien-style or Howard-style campaign. It also has other tables used to generate magic items, weapons, and armour to match the style of those settings.There's no other book I know that comes even close to capturing heroic fantasy the way ACKS does.
>>98883286Bg2 taught me to absolutely hate trolls and rakshashas.
>>98880167has that Wizardry TRPG even get translated into EN yet?
>>98885791It's what taught me how absolutely shit Mind Flayers could be.Before BG2, I'd maybe encounter one lone Mind Flayer during a game, and it would be a do-or-die situation. Bad, sometimes deadly, but manageable.BG2 throws a whole enclave of them at you and you really have to be prepared against them and know all their weird little weaknesses to have any sort of chance. They're not a 1-to-1 equivalent with their tabletop counterparts, but they have stuns and they have charms and they can quickly kill you by sucking out your brain, so it's a pretty close approximation.
>>98885935You can cast KATANA.https://archive.org/details/wizardry-rpg/Wizardry%20RPG.pdf
Hi retards. I want to find an engine that's OSR-ish and easy to play but also doesn't have a lot of bookkeeping around rations, torches, all of that. My group also prefers short and cinematic dungeons to overland travel cycles and dungeon crawling. Is there a system for me?I am aware that the resource economy of dungeon crawling is the whole point of OSR, yes.
>>98886141ACKS all the way.
>>98886141Straight up Dungeon World. Its one of the best ways to run a short cinematic dungeon fantasy game where you don't have to organize much bullshit and everyone can pretend they're playing dnd except its less annoying.
>>98886141Depends on how light you want to go.B/X is the classic first point of recommendation, because it's an original D&D and in your particular case you can downplay or even outright ignore all the mechanics you don't care about because it's a system meant to be really open to modification. For a more polished/modern approach to B/X, you can also look at OSE, and for further expanded rules, you can look at BECMI (though I wouldn't go much further than the Companion rules). From there, you can go much lighter by checking out the Black Hack, along with all the Black Hack variations. It's very light, and really only has the most basic rules at its core (it's only about 20 pages), which is largely why there's dozens of Black Hack-based games because you can literally make one yourself in a weekend. You can try really weird games like Into the Odd or Beyond the Wall or fall down into the Borg scene, though they really depend on if you like their style and they're not to everyone's tastes.If you want a more complex system, and specifically don't really care that much about overland travel/dungeon crawling in comparison to more cinematic adventures, you might want to look at AD&D 2e, because it's got a lot of material but an emphasis that they're suggestions. I'd hesitate to recommend it though, because either of the AD&D's is hardly the name that comes up in regards to "easy to play". They're not too difficult, but it's definitely easier to start by taking a look at a lighter game like B/X and deciding if you want more or less complex according to your tastes.
>>98886141>Hi, I want to not play an OSR gameWell, you came to the right thread!
>98886316>98886391Reminder to laugh at this troll and how powerless he is, begging for attention in a thread that despises him.
>>98886386Sorry, but please don't discuss 2e here, as this is an OSR thread and as such 2e is off-topic ITT. Thanks!
>>98885784>And it has special rules for running a Tolkien-style or Howard-style campaign.Please elaborate. Are you using both mods, or undecided between them? Is there a Vance-style option, or options for other authors?
>>98886425Sorry buddy, you're lost.>Welcome to Open OSR. This is a separate thread is for open discussions of OSR, OSR-adjacent and retro games. You can talk about all OSR (Pre Wotc D&D, & retroclones) & OSR-adjacent (Mork Borg, SWN etc) games without distinction here.>There is a general for those who only want to talk about "first decade" D&D or products from Autarch Studios. If that is your preference, you can find that elsewhere.As always, report and ignore any trolling
>>98886451Lol, I didn't even notice this was a troll OP attempting to ban ACKS from "Open" OSRKek, what a shitty attempt to derail the threadBut that said, no, 2e is not on-topic hete since it's not an OSR game, so clearly regardless of how open an OSR thread it is, 2e doesn't qualify. Otherwise we might as well talk about 3e here as well and merge the general with /3eg/.
>>98886386>there's dozens of Black Hack-based games because you can literally make one yourself in a weekend.That sounds like a challenge.
>>98886316>>98886337>>98886386Thanks much, especially the effortpost. I have a lot of reading ahead of me - Black Hack, Low Fantasy Gaming, Dungeon World, and B/X. I'm already running pirate Borg and although it's fun it's not going to be the main system.
>>98886745>I'm already running pirate Borg and although it's fun it's not going to be the main system.You might want to also give Points of Light a look. It's somewhere right between Mork Borg and B/X.
>>98886445>Are you using both mods, or undecided between them? No, they are incompatible, because they are different mods to the same mechanics.>Is there a Vance-style optionYes, that's just vanilla ACKS, though.>options for other authors?Any authors using spellsinging (power point based, can improvise spells) and/or ritual magic combined with shaded (white/grey/black) magic and corruption can use that book. Of course you might want to design your own classes at that point, which is easy to do with the ACKS custom class rules.
>>98886386>you might want to look at AD&D 2e,Why you recommend the worst of all D&D editions to anyone?>because it's got a lot of materialAll invariably unplaytested dogshit. Without exception.
>>98883931I never understood why as a cleric she never just grew her wings back.She can learn Regeneration and Raise Dead and Remove Curse and Heal, but she'd rather complain about being wingless.
>>98886451>if the OP defines dogs to be birds then dogs are birdsNot how it works. Not how anything works. No matter your attempts to redefine what OSR means, 2e is not an OSR game.
Is this acks loser always like this?
>>98887009He gets more upset the more people talk about games and the more he gets ignored. Best to just do both and then take a count of how mad he got, because when a pisshat like him gets mad that means you're doing something right.
>>98886959Her god hates her and anyone who asks for logic in a video game.
>>98886141Your question sounds authentic, so I'm going to give it some serious thought.
>>98887009Yes.The only mode hes got is "annoying cunt."
>>98886935>No, they are incompatible, because they are different mods to the same mechanics.What does it affect besides magic system?As to the magic systems, I’ve never been averse to having multiple magic systems in the same game, though I’ve talked to people who are and I sort of get it.>>98886745lol, the guy who said ACKS is trolling you, ACKS is the opposite of what you asked for.
>>98886842Wow, that one looks great. It's at the top of the list.
>>98887173Anyone who'd look into ACKS would immedieately realize it's something no one would ever ask for.
>>98886745Even if you don't end up using Dungeon World, the >Adventuring Items as [x] [ ] [ ] uses and players tick off a use and come up with something works well to bolt onto any sort of dungeon exploring where your players aren't going to keep track of inventory much.
>>98880167Are there really ACKS anons in the thread? I wouldn't mind a rundown of the supplements. I know of these:• Player's Companion• Domains at War• Lairs & Encounters• Heroic Fantasy Handbook• Barbarian Conquerors of Kanahu• By This Axe• Auran Empire PrimerAre there others? Do they all work with both ACKS and ACKS II? Which ones should I start with?
>>98887194Kevin Crawford backed it. Is he banned from reddit yet? People just need to accept different people like different things or use it in parts for what they like.
>>98887194Arguable.Some people might be in need of pussy repellent.If someone went up to me and said "Man, I just can't get these bitches off of me. I need something to make all women instantly and instinctually reject me. I want to to appear to be the most unlikable, undesirable, intolerable sack of shit alive."I'd tell them "Just play ACKS."
>>98887254ACKS actually stands for "Always celibate, kan't score."
>>98886037I just threw undead at them.They're worthless against undead.
>>98887319
>>98887204That's a good system and one that I've seen before, with lots of variations.>Adventuring Items, three uses>'Supplies,' 1 unit weighs 5 lbs and costs 5 gold. Produces x amount of y common items>'Refueling' as an obligatory 10g fee to repair armor, buy new arrows, rope, torches etcAny I've missed?
>>98886977I've read both ad&d and ad&d 2e and to me are basically the same system. So I'm asking: Why the hate?
>>98887464It's just the most pathetic form of edition warring, where all the smallest differences are blown out of proportion. He's got whole manifestos written about how 2e is where D&D was ruined forever, just like the other aspie grogs have manifestos written about how AD^D ruined D&D forever, 3e ruined D&D forever, 4e ruined D&D forever, etc.
>>98887173>What does it affect besides magic system?Different classes, different number of fate points, different item tables.>As to the magic systems, I’ve never been averse to having multiple magic systems in the same game, though I’ve talked to people who are and I sort of get it.The Heroic Fantasy Handbook magic systems can be run alongside the traditional D&D one or on their own. So you have a choice there. Arbrethil is (was?) running a pure Heroic Fantasy Campaign, for instance. You can find more information on his blog.
>>98887494Gygax made AD&D to be more strict and less loose than D&D was. It was supposed to be a more serious paradigm shift where there was a correct way to play and every other way was not playing AD&D correctly. But, most people didn't play AD&D that way, and also started gravitating towards B/X and later BECMI instead, because they wanted a looser, more fun game with people encouraged to have much more individuality and control with the rules. Tim Kask even later wrote about how AD&D was leaching the fun out of the game >>98881978, by being all about "dogma and regulations" instead of providing guidelines.2e is 1e, but where the rules are softer and there's also more variants and optional rules so DMs can make the game more the way they want it to be. It's 1e, but returning more towards the original spirit of D&D being a "free-wheeling" game. For people who enjoyed 1e being a stricter game, 2e was basically a betrayal.
>>98887220>Player's CompanionThat's the book in which the custom class and magic experimentation rules were introduced. Much of it was included in ACKS II. Apart from that, some additional classes>• Domains at WarDomain and mass combat rules.>• Lairs & EncountersThat's what it says. One lair for each monster in the book that has lairs, so you can plonk them in your settings or when a random encounter calls for it.>• Heroic Fantasy HandbookSee the current discussion. Howardian/Tolkienesque rules. Ceremonial magic. Spellsinging (power point based, can improvise spells on the fly). Shaded magic (each spell is classifies as white, grey, or black. Corruption from using black magic).>• Barbarian Conquerors of KanahDon't know that one.>• By This AxeDwarf stuff. Extra classes, rules on mining, constructs, stuff like that. Didn't really read it.>• Auran Empire PrimerDidn't read this one either.>Are there others?Before All Others, the Elf book, is coming soon. Do they all work with both ACKS and ACKS II? Yeah, pretty much. 95% compatible. >Which ones should I start with?I would strongly recommend ACKS II. It's a lot, over a decade of work and lots of playtesting went into it. Once you have a good chunk of it down, I would strongly recommend the Heroic Fantasy book because frankly it's a masterclass in marrying D&D with Howard and Tolkien, even if you don't end up using it.
>>98887462I've used it for all sorts of things. You can adjust the number of boxes based on quality of the items or other contexts. It works for more abstract things like hirelings with specific skill sets, I had a village idiot with >Surprisingly good idea they party could use when they were stumped and I would give them a suggestion and it refreshed when he got back to town and got drunk. Works for charges in wands or uses of artifacts or magic items.Works for a squad of goblins you can send to go do something suicidal and buy time. Depends on how flexible you and the players want to be.
>>98887544>the core tenets of the gamelol, you only decided they were the core tenets when 2e made them optional. Everyone else defines the core tenets of the game dramatically differently than the 1e grogs do.
>>98887544>While also actively encouraging story rewards and bullshit like that. this has been going on since at least adnd 1e and bxthey even give advice how to ease up on the rolls to make the campaign more fun and lenient for the pc's The whole purity spiel doesnt work and you know it.yeas adnd had an intended playstyle that people didnt use either because they didnt get it or because they didnt like it and 2e went in and made those preferences the reality of the system.You can still dungeoncrawl. The biggest drawback is having to make your own encounter tables etc but if i were to pick one of the two i would take 2e just to avoid gygaxian prose and stuff like the helmet rules.
>>98887464That's a very common misunderstanding from people who don't understand how Gygaxian D&D works and why AD&D 2e is antithetical to it.Three sources that go into much more detail than I can here, offering different arguments/tg/ discussion on "why 2e does not support my preferred style of play"https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/98151098/#98167617Melan blog post on "why 2e is still not OSR"https://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com/2022/10/blog-osr-module-o5-2e-is-still-not-old.htmlThe n00b DM's guide explains what the OSR style of play is and why 2e breaks its core mechanicshttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B
>>98887518Don't feed the troll. Hide and report
>>98887568They were optional in 1e too.Just something the retards forget.
>>98887556>2e is 1eDon't be retarded
>>98887568>when 2e made them optional.2e didn't just make rules optional, it removed a bunch of them, and gave shit DM advice, including advising against "overusing" rules that are necessary for an OSR game. See here: >>98887597
>>98887576>adnd had an intended playstyleSo did B/X, pretty much the same style as AD&D. The core rules are the same. AD&D 2e broke both. See here: >>98887597
>>98887636>>98887652Take your gay manifesto back to where idiots dumb enough to listen to you dwell.It ain't here.
>>98887717No one's dumb enough to listen to him. These fags don't actually believe their own bullshit, they just need to have any kind of bullshit so they don't have to address the real underlying issue ("2e wasn't absolutely identical and I'm a big baby waaaahhhhh").They've been repeating the same dumb debunked bullshit over and over again because it doesn't matter that everyone knows its a lie, all that matters is that they have something to spam and shitpost.
>>98887608>cutting off a sentence halfwayIs this how you always try to argue?
>>98887717>>98887746>no arguments, just insultsReminder to hide and report tourists who come to this thread only to disrupt conversation about ACKS and OSR.
>>98887746*ED NOTE: The points have never been debunked, as they are factually correct. You will note that this post likewise fails to do so, merely implying that someone, somewhere has done so (they have not).
>>98887597>reads the comments section on melan's blog lol there's some precious moments in there I had forgotten about Kent and Buzzclaw being total cunts. They do seem like they still come here based on a lot of the commentary this got. There is, despite all that, some good even handed discussion of the post and how 2nd ed relates or can be brought in depending on how its handled.
>>98887717These guys actually managed to get Gabor and his books banned from Reddit, because after getting ACKS banned from there by being dumb trolls about that nothingburger of a game, these dumb trolls decided they were going to use Gabor as their next effort in trying to force politically-oriented trolling into the OSR. They're very likely going to try to do the same with some other right-oriented figure, and the same result will keep happening.That's really what it comes down to. These trolls decided that X is left, Y is right, and that they're going to drag every single discussion down into some form of ridiculous culture war where the reality of the games is ignored and empty talking points are treated as vital, all while it's just cowardly political proxies that they try to shed the moment they think they'll get in trouble over it, which is always a little too late.
>>98887597>not even the twelve people who read Melan's blog all agree with himNot really much of an argument when you also present clear counterarguments against it.
>>98887847>These guys actually managed to get Gabor and his books banned from Redditjfc you weren't kidding. This makes the joke question about banning kevin Crawford for backing ACKS a lot more real though. What a shit place.
>>98887888>What a shit place.The schizo you replied to thinks it's a good thing and has said that he wants to petition 4chan mods to ban the games that are banned on reddit and RPGnet.
>>98887902This schizo >>98887847?Seems mostly like they're tired of culture war in gaming at all and the various crusaders and trolling it comes with. Its easy enough to spot, its whoever can't actually talk about the games in question. There's a ton of that in these threads.
>>98887464>So I'm asking: Why the hate?I will explain this in terms of hamburgers.Chainmail is a hamburg steak served on a piece of bread. It's not really a hamburger, but it's definitely the direct ancestor of the hamburger.OD&D is unquestionably a hamburger, albeit firmly a retro one. A thick ground beef patty sandwiched between two pieces of baked wheaten bread (be it a roll or a bun or toast or whatever) topped with onions as well as ketchup and/or mustard and nothing else. Has its fans, but generally is valued more for its place in history than actually consumed.Basic is a cheeseburger. The hamburger concept is getting more refined and standardized; it's a thin ground beef patty cooked on a flat top with a slice of American cheese melted on top and served on a dedicated hamburger bun with chopped onions, pickles and a smear of special sauce. There are no additional toppings, but it works so well that many people think that the hamburger peaked here.B/X is basically the above option, but you can also have bacon, lettuce, tomato, or even an extra patty. Generally considered the platonic ideal of hamburgers.BECMI/RC is a gimmick hamburger. Someone thought that the burger was boring, so they decided to bolt a bunch of increasingly unsuited bullshit to it. C is relatively inoffensive but still divisive (a fried egg, ranch dressing), M is is considered gross excess or poorly suited (chicken tenders, peanut butter) and I is just retarded (jelly beans, gold leaf, etc.).AD&D1E is a hamburger restaurant with a toppings bar. They give you the plain burger on a plate and you can slap on whatever toppings you want. Everything is fresh, the cook is a pro and the dining room is cozy.2E is what happens when the AD&D restaurant gets bought out. It's the same in concept, but everything is cheaper and worse. The tomatoes are flavorless, the patties now come frozen, the old cook got fired and the dining room got a "facelift" that sucked out the charm and nostalgia.
>>98887888Redditors are dumb, but they're not dumb enough to fall for political trolls pretending to be innocent when it suits them and right back to being political trolls when its convenient.You'd think these pro-ACKS/Anti-2e trolls would have learned their lesson by getting ACKS banned, but trolls will just be trolls.Even just the whole combination of being anti-2e but pro-ACKS is so bizarre, but trying to make sense of what's ultimately just arbitrary tastes tied together by odd political allegiances is not worth trying to unravel. Like how football is supposed to be right wing and soccer left wing.
>>98887989>'2e was invented by European ladies to keep them busy while their husbands did the cooking.' That's exactly what they sound li->>98887959Oh jesus christ I was just trying to make a joke and you ended up being it.
>>98887989Nah see you're part of the problem. You're unable to ignore the political part so you have to try and make everything like what you prefer everywhere you go. Its what fucks communities up and makes them less and less about the games and more and more about your political bullshit.
>>98888020If you wanted people to ignore the political part, you'd probably pick one of the better B/X games out there that don't have any political part. Or, at minimum, you'd keep it in your own containment thread where you know you're not going to get into any conflicts over it instead of deliberately trying to to flood threads with it just to be a troll.You want it to be political. You just don't want anyone but people who agree with you politically to treat it politically.
>>98888035And again here you can't help yourself, which is doubly fucked for the "open" thread. Its the open osr thread, people can discuss the merits of and find useful things from most any dnd related game. But you can't keep the foam from your lips about ACKS. Its got you legitimately mind broken.
>>98888020>You're unable to ignore the political partIt's hard to. You kind of make it impossible.Most people see a pretty mediocre game. Lots of issues with it, actually. Some good aspects, but its very very niche and understandably unpopular because its a very rules-heavy game in a genre that tend to lean rules-lite.But you've promoted it like it's the game everyone should play, even recommending it to people specifically asking for games that are essentially the opposite of it. You make it impossible to look at just the game itself and understand why you are promoting it the way you do.How are people supposed to interpret your posts, other than you being a troll, and you being politically motivated about a game where the most notable things about it are that it suffers from severe rules bloat and its creator keeps trying to promote the game on twitter as a right-wing answer to 5e?
>>98888106And again, you're doing the thing where you decide to speak for >most people and are unable to just let other people read and make their own evaluations. Because you have a political fixation. Fuck off with that. Discuss the game in context or say its not your preference and move on with your life. Not everyone who disagrees with you is part of a shilling brigade you're just so fucked in the head you're stuck thinking everything is an us vs them problem you force into being by thinking its the problem.
>>98888149>and are unable to just let other people read and make their own evaluations. Because you have a political fixation....this might surprise you, but I don't have a political affiliation. I am neither right wing nor left wing. The closest you could say about me is that I'm against anything with a detectable political slant.And ACKS the game barely has that. You can't really hate the game for its politics, because it's such a largely flavorless and dry game you really gotta wring the fuck out of it to get a drop of any directorial intent. Yes, what little it has could be construed as right-leaning, but the core of the game came out more than a decade ago, before everything was hyper-charged politically, and doesn't seem to have been made to try and court a particular political audience, especially compared to something like Sword Lesbians.Evaluating the game without any politics involved, ignoring its fans and its creator and their prominent politics, isn't too hard. But, it really just leaves it as a game no one would really talk about.Are you aware of just how many B/X clones there are? Literally hundreds. Or games with domain rules, or whatever you think is supposed to be the special niche that ACKS serves (and not particularly well)?But, instead of exploring the gigantic world of OSR beyond your limited scope, you have a pressing need to bring up that one game, and discuss it all the way to the point where you've been left alone in your containment thread just for yourselves to talk all you want about it, and because of how you've driven everyone else away you have to go to a thread made by someone (not me, before you mouth off again) who is also tired of your dicklicking worship of its mediocrity and politically-motivated trolling surrounding it. >move on with your life.This is incredibly ironic. You're in a thread chasing after people who have moved on, because you can't.
>>98887567That's pretty great, when you put it like that.
>>98887462>secret sheathWhat is a secret sheath? A cane sword?
>>98888272>And ACKS the game barely has that. You can't really hate the game for its politics, because it's such a largely flavorless and dry game you really gotta wring the fuck out of it to get a drop of any directorial intent. This is a deeply subjective opinion on the matter, you can say its boring to you but that's about all you can do at that point. Cool. Thanks. Next. >Are you aware of just how many B/X clones there are? Literally hundreds.No shit. > or whatever you think is supposed to be the special niche that ACKS serves (and not particularly well)?Nigger I don't even use ACKS, nor do I find it well suited to how I run domain play but I am sure as fuck tired of hearing you say the same canned nothings about how it killed your mom by being too long to read. There are obviously lots of posters who use it. Trying to argue with people that their subjective opinion is wrong is a doomed position you're just shitting up everything else with and making it hard to talk about any other game. Shut the fuck up no one cares.
>>98888309I'm not kidding when I think Dungeon World is one of the better ways to play what a lot of people claim to want from 5e sort of fantasy adventure themes. Its easy to use most osr material with once you get the hang of adapting moves. It gets quite repetitive with Defy Danger after a few goes at it so I don't use it much as a game in itself but there's lots of useful and easy to pull out bits like usage slots for any sort of resource, fronts and threats as ways to track dungeon factions, weapon tags as ways to quickly adjudicate combat rulings, stuff like that. But running it a few times is interesting as an experience and I think helps shake everyone out of very fixed unconscious expectations of how >dndplays that really hem people in.
>>98888379>you can say its boring to you but that's about all you can do at that point.No-no, you don't understand. He can screech it like an autistic chimp for, what, 23 months by this point?That'll talk people around. It's a game winning strat.
>>98887494>2e is where D&D was ruined forever, just like the other aspie grogs have manifestos written about how AD^D ruined D&D forever, 3e ruined D&D forever, 4e ruined D&D forever, etc.There's some guys that didn't even wait for 2e. They declared that D&D was ruined by 1e's Unearthed Arcana. There's also guys in the /5eg/ who are saying 5.5 ruined 5e.I think they're really genuinely passionate about it. But to everyone else its just skub.
lmao I just realized you've been replying to posts you've been crowing about having hidden for several threads. Holyshit you are broken. If its trolling and you've hidden it, stop fucking responding to it you absolute mongolid.
>>98887607>They were optional in 1e too.Also optional in OD&D and Basic/etc. Every part of the game has always been optional. Even something like rolling dice was technically optional.
>>98888561Some people took that idea too far though.
>>98887556I thought Gygax made AD&D to screw Dave Arneson out of royalties.
>>98887556>Gygax made AD&D to be more strict and less loose than D&D was. Only if you read Gygax’s comments about AD&D that he started making after the basic box came out and Arneson sent him that letter about royalties. If you actually read AD&D you can clearly see that it was written to embrace arbitration and empower GMs with little regard for standardized play or for player skill/agency.It doesn’t even have an official way to generate stats.It doesn’t even let you choose targets in melee.1e tells you that the DM will run your character for you if you can’t make it, 1e will give your thief a 3-week suspension because he didn’t always act like a thief, 1e tells you to skip random encounters if they aren’t fun, 1e tells you to fudge dice if you want (as an exception to the rule) but it also explicitly leaves a lot of things up to DM arbitration (with the dice-based “procedures” being phrased as suggestions). Henchmen loyalty, shopping and selling, base/realm management, encounter difficulty and most item weights were all left to DM fiat just off the top of my head. And the combat system was an unfinished fuckfest.You’re full of shit bro.
>>98885523Every TSR D&D tournament was different and had different rules and formats. It was nonstop experimentation, because it never quite met the form the tournament would take in their imaginations.The most common format was usually a group was put in a dungeon and they got scored based on a checklist. It was cooperative team game, but there were a few tournaments and even some rounds within a tournament where players competed against each other.Outside of TSR-run events, people could run a game approved by TSR via a submission process, though these generally resembled the TSR-run events. Beyond that though, unsanctioned games could take any form that could be imagined, including PvP gladiatorial tournaments. Even now you can hear about some group deciding to have a PvP beatdown.
>>98888649>with little regard for standardized play or for player skill/agency.Incompetence and oversight in hindsight do not diminish intent. There was a clear effort to try and make the game more standardized than OD&D was, it's just that the scale of the undertaking far exceeded expectations, and probably would have been impossible for any rulebook under 5,000 pages. Back then, 400 pages of rules was considered a lot for a wargame, most which had rules between 20-100 pages.>It doesn’t even have an official way to generate stats.Might be because tournaments originally provided pre-made characters. Might be because they hadn't settled on what the best way should be and would update the books after they finished testing the game out more. AD&D was coming fairly hot off the heals of OD&D (only three years apart, and thus with only three years of public playtesting), so it makes sense that they would still want to have some flexibility while they were still figuring everything out.>1e was inconsistent and scatterbrainedAs was Gygax and friends.
>>98888611It was probably a big mix of motivations.
>>98888649>Only if you read Gygax’s comments about AD&D that he started making after the basic box came out and Arneson sent him that letter about royalties. If you actually read AD&D you can clearly see that it was written to embrace arbitration and empower GMs with little regard for standardized play or for player skill/agency.Have you read OD&D?
>>98888731>There was a clear effort to try and make the game more standardized than OD&D was, it's just that the scale of the undertaking far exceeded expectations, and probably would have been impossible for any rulebook under 5,000 pages.Every other edition except 4e did a better job of standardizing OD&D (including Holmes basic which came out before AD&D).Have you read any part of AD&D 1e? I don’t think you have. Sorry if I’m wrong but it sounds like you’re the guy from the TSR thread last week.
>>98888793>Every other edition except 4e did a better job of standardizing OD&D (including Holmes basic which came out before AD&D). Agree to disagree.Also, AD&D was in development before Holmes Basic and the development process took considerably longer (with the PH and DMG coming out in 1978 and 1979 and seeing further revisions in later reprints), and was a pretty difficult process. A bit of "too many cooks" going on, but also a lot of disagreement over what direction AD&D was supposed to be taking.One of the people helping Gygax was Tim Kask, the first TSR employee, who was hired on as an editor. He ultimately ended up resigning, in part over the direction that AD&D took. >>98881978
>>98882551I miss when Neely used to visit /tg/.https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/21836095/#21836668
>>98889206Fuck. I was hoping that someone might have archived it on suptg, but no one did.We really didn't know how good we had it back then.
>>98882068>1995 is when TSR went bankrupt>>98882814TSR never went bankrupt.A company by the name of TSR went bankrupt in 2023 but that was a different company reusing the name.
2e is my favorite OSR game.
>>98887746
>>98887847>actual OSR players got Melan banned from Redditlol, not only are there no OSR gamers on /r/osr but his ban wasn't provoked by any specific discussion. A new tranny was promoted to mod and his first act was to ban his hate figure Melan, that's literally all it took.
>>98888018>getting banned from reddit is a severe demeritlolwhere do you think you are? redditor never detected more clearly
>>98889663That's weird, because that's not what they were saying in the thread where it was announced. Lots of upvotes on people explaining that you guys were starting politicized fights over the guy, and a high upvote ratio overall, so it doesn't seem to be one actor but the majority of the subreddit agreeing. Of course, they might have done something to manipulate those numbers, but at the very minimum we know your "it was all just one guy" is your standard lie just being as obvious of a lie as it always is.
>>98888478>I can see how people would find 2nd ed more suited to their preferencesNobody's said otherwise. Those preferences are just inherently non-OSR preferences, just like if you prefer GURPS.
>>98889135That's unbelievable.
>>98888731>muh tournamentsKek, it's so obvious that this is his latest fixation. Remember when he was obsessed with yammering about "BrOSR", or when he got hung up on trying to prove that treasure is a story award?
>>98883286Should i play the enhanced edition or get gemrb and play the original?>>98881395We all know the 80s nerd Dick measuring contest is won by Roe "Hawkwind" R. "Designed Wizardry 4, founder of animego" Adams III.>>98881017Anyone decompiled the gold box games yet?
>>98889325Butter is my favorite carb
>>98887561Unless you count the Treasure Tome as one of the ACKS core books, I would recommend that one before any of the "expansions". It's a must have, since the list of magic items in the Judges Journal is pretty short, and the extra tables for generating treasure are pretty useful.So I would say that the ones to get are the Revised Rulebook (basically the PHB), Judges Journar, Monstrous Manual, and Treasure Tome.Only get Heroic Fantasy and the Dwarf and Elf splats if you have a specific interest in any of those.
>>98889947The ACKS Treasure Tome is a must have.
>>98888106>Fishfag once again resorts to claiming a fake silent majority on his sideMan, getting rekt by consensus in /osrg/ REALLY got to you, huh.>>98888468>>98888530>muh containment threadLMAOBest start liking containment threads, Miss Fisher: you're in one!
>>98890426>aaaand by the time I got around to replying two of the posts were already killHats off, jannissaries: 2/3 of the way there already.
>>98890436The ACKS thread was cleaned up too >>98875550excellent job
>>98889302Oh, good call.
>>98889135The future of the board looked so much brighter back then.
>>98888149>And again, you're doing the thing where you decide to speak for>>most people"Most people" just speak for themselves by what they buy and play.It's a dying game. It's 2e was supposed to be its big renaissance, but its kickstarter got less than two thousand backers. Most of its kickstarters got only about a thousand.Those are really low numbers. Even for obscure OSR games those are low. And, as other newer systems rise in popularity, with better quality and no controversy, it continues to lose what few fans it had, leaving only the diehards that ironically do more to drive people away from the game.It'll likely persist in its comatose state as long as its supported, but its legacy will be as an example of what happens when an attempt at viral marketing backfires.
>>98890805Kek, the door knobs are a classic
>>98890955And what gets dragged down with it.
>>98891043I'm not sure you know how kickstarters work.That money isn't pure profit. After KS takes its 8%+, you actually have to use the rest of that money to make the books and fufill the orders. Making the goal low so you're guaranteed to clear it and you can then advertise how quickly you cleared it is common practice, and we know that the production costs far exceeded what was asked for.It's apparently been a struggle. According to Macris, its 2e actually ran out of money from its "high five-figure" art budget (meaning the art budget alone was more than the goal), which is why he had to use AI art. Every book has been delayed thanks to production and distribution issues, and while it's likely that the main 2e kickstarter still turned a profit overall (thanks in part to how overpriced the tiers were, with seven people actually spending $2,500 for 6 books and a few doodads), the other books that only saw about 500 backers were very likely coming out at a loss, with little hope to recoup over time on DriveThru/etc. Outside of ACKS, his Ascendant game, which only got 498 backers, almost certainly ended up as a loss after costs, and even its second attempt only got 307 backers. Even in the unlikely event that ACKS did manage to make some money, that Ascendant gamble likely means as a designer he's been operating in the red and been relying on other money to live.His last book cleared its low 10k goal, but it's been delayed with Macris even commenting that he just didn't have the funds to ensure it got released on time. With over a year since the kickstarter ended, if he managed to pocket any money after all the costs, it would be a very sad effective salary.The ACKS forums/subreddit/discord are largely barren, and Macris's X account continues to bemoan his pariah status and complain about how he's been functionally blacklisted.It doesn't look good.
>>98890044Yeah I love it too. The way the treasure and magic items tables were written to be more logical, less idiosyncratic, and based on rarity is a huge improvement over the original B/X ones. Literally zero reasons to use the old tables since the ACKS ones came out as far as I am concerned
>>98890955>>98891308>100 comments nuked in two threads>starts exactly the same schizo routine only four hours later
>>98891330...bro, your bravado? What happened to your "wow much money, immediately funded" talk?
>>98891317I concur. The tables for weapon and armour type by culture and campaign type are also *chef's kiss*.>>98891040>>98891043>>98891330Reply if you must Anons, but always remember to report.Better yet hide him, ignore him, and join the conversation about games. What's your favourite ACKS book and why?
>>98891409You're in the wrong thread.>Welcome to Open OSR. This is a separate thread is for open discussions of OSR, OSR-adjacent and retro games. You can talk about all OSR (Pre Wotc D&D, & retroclones) & OSR-adjacent (Mork Borg, SWN etc) games without distinction here.>There is a general for those who only want to talk about "first decade" D&D or products from Autarch Studios. If that is your preference, you can find that elsewhere.>As always, report and ignore any trolling
>>98891409>What's your favourite ACKS book and why?Probably the Monstrous Manual, but I'm really looking forward to Before All Others based on a couple of interviews Macris did about it.
>>98891449How do you feel about it being likely the last ACKS book, if it ever does come out?I don't think it's all that surprising most people have jumped ship. There's a big difference between playing a game with a foreseeable future and one that's on its death bed.
>>98891449I'm curious too. Another Anon in this thread (or was it the other one?) said that an almost-complete draft was distributed to backers recently, so it shouldn't be too long until we get to see it.Unfortunately I think Bytee has changed policy and stopped archiving drafts. I've looked around and I couldn't find it anywhere, so it might be a few more weeks before we get to see it.What interviews by the way?
>>98891479>There's a big difference between playing a game with a foreseeable future and one that's on its death bed.I think it's funny that these guys have been killing themselves over this game. In five years, no one will remember it existed.
>>98891479>playing a game with a foreseeable future>osr lmao its things like this that show how hollow your bit is.
>>98891481>What interviews by the way?He's done a few. I think the best one was this one, so not an interview actually.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2XZ3UhYiTM
>>98891514Thanks Anon, will take a look.
>>98891488>fiveIt won't last another two.Mac also fucked himself. He probably would have wanted to re-release ACKS2 like he tried with Ascendant, but all the art is AI and people would know that this time around beforehand, not after the fact. Re-doing all the art would be way too expensive, so he's locked himself in a spot where his big tentpole release failed, there's no chance for a redo, and everything that followed has him just bleeding money and players.
>>98891308>According to Macris, its 2e actually ran out of money from its "high five-figure" art budgetHow do you waste five figures on AI slop.
>>98891535>>98891545>samefagging this hard in an autosaged thread about posts you said you filtered and hid beautiful
>>98889691>Nobody's said otherwiseYes you did.>GURPSIs what Macris is trying to reinvent by accident, lmao, he’s praising people for using ACKS2 as a farming simulator. A lot of D&D-likes have gone in that direction, especially post-3e designs, I respect the autism but it’s not OSR according to the local traditional definition of OSR (unlike 2e, which is pre-hasbro d&d and was traditionally accepted under the old definition, in addition to being truer to OSR gameplay principles when compared to a post-3e simulationist millieu like ACKS, in addition to being a more solid clone of 1e which would still qualify it even if not for the previous two points).Seriously, though, is macris aware of GURPS fantasy? Does he maybe think that this kind of thing hasn’t been done before?
>>98891559Its the open osr thread, we don't have to care about whatever you think is osr or not. Dungeon World is osr here. How's your campaign going anon?
>>98891504The whole core of the osr was to keep the old games alive and supported. It's much harder to play games that no one knows and no one else plays, and people wanted an active and engaged community. If they just wanted to hold onto their old copies of the original D&D editions and play old adventures and ignore any sense of community outside of the five guys they've been playing with since the 1970's, they could just do that in the privacy of their basements and never bother talking about the games online.
>>98891591No, the whole thing is being ale to access material you want that's been saved. That you're fixated on >current thing and >constant support like a /v/tard tourist shows how shallow and trend chasing your idiotic mentality is. No retroclone is popular. That's not what they're for.
>>98891559>Seriously, though, is macris aware of GURPS fantasy?His knowledge of games seems limited to B/X, 3e, and 5e. It's why his game is just yet another D&D heartbreaker.Oh, and 2e. Amusingly, Macris actually likes 2e and has tried to tell people to stop trolling about it.
>>98885784>>98886935>>98887501So it sounds like this is more (and maybe less) than addressing tone, it’s about restricting player options and writing encounter tables so as to use middle earth (or hyboria) as a setting. Mostly I’m just glad he got away with it. ACKs monsters must be pretty wacky if you’re claiming that the default option is Vancian. Vance was a crazy nigga.
>>98891330The text walls are clearly a compulsion. He can't help it. Just look at the explosion of posts after Anon casually pointed out yesterday that 2e isn't OSR, that shit's more than halfway up the thread already despite the extensive post nukings.
>>98891605>ale to access material you want that's been saved....we've had pdfs and POD services for decades now. The shared community is a big part of why the OSR didn't just disappear back in the 2000's when the availability issues were solved.You think otherwise? Do everyone a favor and stay holed up and off the internet.
>>98891608nta You can see all sorts of reasonable takes on a variety of games in the comments of most osr game designers. There's no real limit on what can be made interesting or useful for osr play mechanically and tonally if you actually play and know how to discus systems. One of the noticeably lacking things about the 2nd ed discussion here is what anyone is actually doing with it
>>98891559>he’s praising people for using ACKS2 as a farming simulator.He'd probably lick your asshole clean if you told him you were playing the game in any way at this point.
>>98891619You're almost getting it but you're so incapable because of the foam in your mouth forths up o ver your eyes. That you think its some sort of popularity contest outs you as the problem every time.
>>98891641>That you think its some sort of popularity contestI want games that more people at my table will enjoy than less people.If a game will only be fun for one guy and everyone else will just stack dice and wonder what's the politest way to quit, I'm not going to run that game.I'm gamemaxxing, bra. I want the maximum amount of fun I can get for the group of players I have, and that means I need to actually care what people think and not just ignore things like how appealing a game is.
>>98891308Damn, that's bleak.Rest in power.
>>98891664lol you for sure are missing the point. Its osr, you get to run what you want for your table and your group, there's more material and retroclones than you will every be able to run before you die. Stressing out about a game you don't like and won't run to the extent you have to rant about it on a daily basis here is deeply fucked and makes everything worse while you pretend to care about community. Talk about the games you do run and what happens in that, questions you have or ideas you want to try. No one cares about your pretend flex bramaxing bullshit.
>>98891556It strongly resembles poetry, if you ask me.
>>98891682>Stressing out about a game you don't like and won't run to the extent you have to rant about it on a daily basis here is deeply fucked and makes everything worse while you pretend to care about community.Why act like the game matters?The guys spamming it don't care, they're just generating chatter because they don't even care that everyone can tell they're doing it in bad faith just to troll, just as long as they meet what they think is a level of plausible deniability.You really need to stop defending trolls and thinking you can then jump on a high horse about how all you want is to talk about games, like we can't all see a troll spamming what he thinks looks like "game talk" and doing it just to try to flood the thread and impede actual genuine game discussion.It's that kid in the backseat thinking he's not going to get in trouble because he's just hovering his finger around and not actually touching you. He wants to get all the benefits of being annoying without getting any repurcussions for it, and it just doesn't work that way.Want people to discuss games? Then encourage the ACKS trolls to go back to their threas where they can generate their brain-numbing chatter in peace, instead of doing it here just to drive everyone away.ACKS talk is the fat old man at the orgy. He's ruining it for everyone.
>>98891760>impede actual genuine game discussionSuch as...?
>>98891764There's some good stuff earlier in this thread. Easier to see if you use a few filters. Try just filtering "acks".
>>98891772>There's some good stuff earlier in this threadlmao
>>98891760>Why act like the game matters?I don't, but holyshit do you ever not shut the fuck up about it. You can't even stop talking about it when you've filtered and hidden it. >>98891772And again, you still can't bring yourself to post about your games you do like and try to make things better. Its an ideological fixation of yours that ironically kills the community you claim to care about. You're fucked in the head mate. ACKS has literally mindbroken you.
>>98891622>One of the noticeably lacking things about the 2nd ed discussion here is what anyone is actually doing with itUsing the rulebooks for what they were designed: Reading them as if they were (bad) novels.
>>98891797>If you don't like it feel free to contact the moderators on IRC and ask them what their opinion on the matter isGiven that this thread has been put on autosage almost certainly for having a hijacked troll OP trying to exclude an on-topic game, it's pretty clear what their opinion is IMO
>>98891791Bruh.Come back when we're not getting flooded with literally hundreds of shitposts from trolls and maybe you can talk.
>>98891821If you stop posting there will be significantly less shitposts. If its about a game you don't like and don't play and shouldn't even see because you've filtered it, don't fucking engage with it you idiot. Let people post about what they want, post more of what you want. Let people figure out what works best for their games on their own. It is not hard you just have to fuck around less.
>>98891832Genuinely curious, why are you still engaging with him? Do you think you can talk reason into him?
>>98891832ACKS posting kills threads. Non-genuine trolls generating chatter just to generate chatter drives people away.The trolls know this. That's why they're here and not in their thread.
>>98891841Sometimes people have what the feel is a good intention for an idea of a community but trying to force it ends up making it worse and you can talk them out of it. Doesn't always work but its worth a shot.
>>98891852Most of them are talking about an actual game with discussions of mechanics. There are some obvious trolls about 2nd ed bein osr or not but those are easy to ignore. And again, if you've filtered it because you don't like it, you'll just have the questions its responding to or other things that are unrelated to engage with so I'm not sure how you even have the problem you claim to have. So what keeps you from doing that except yourself?
>>98891853Are you new to /tg/? This particular schizo is years past the benefit of the doubt.
>>98891861>Most of them are talking about an actual game with discussions of mechanics.Wow that must mean its genuine.Jesus christ you're retarded.
>>98891866I'm from before boonquest. There's about 3 of them, if its the same poster maybe one of the schizo personalities will get it and it'll filter through. :)
>>98891861>Most of them are talking about an actual game with discussions of mechanics.No they're not. They're just generating chatter. There's no discussion, no communication of ideas, there's less real talk than what you'd get out of chatgpt. It might even be chatgpt.You can't keep trying to defend obvious trolls trying to weaponize the form of spam/flooding they think has the lowest chance of getting deleted while being the most annoying and disruptive.It's like someone spamming AI art in an art discussion.
>>98891871>discussions of game mechanics in ttrpgs is genuinely about traditional games ... yes? Not really sure what you think makes it more or less so at that point. If you're worried about on topic open osr discussions there's nothing stopping you from making and having those except yourself at this point. You just keep posting about a game you hate and are caught up wanting everyone else to think the same way as you.
>>98891886>I'm from before boonquest.lol you ought to know better then>There's about 3 of themAll with exactly the same autistic fixations and verbal tics, sure.
>>98891898this once can be copy pasted to you as well. >>98891899There's at least two of you here right now who don't like acks, and me, I don't particularly care for it. So what are you playing instead? I've got an Into the Odd homebrew at the moment I'm trying to add more mechanics back into because its an interesting way to see what people like about it and don't. Its dirt simple but I've been using 2D6 pbta graduated successes with small bonuses for skill rolls and its so far so good. I am considering there being advantage or disadvantage to it based on character background or gear but might stick with simple + and - modifiers to it.
>>98891916>So what are you playing instead?Not B/X, that's for sure.
>>98891861Just so you know, I’m the guy that asked about the heroic fantasy handbook, and I get the sense that the guy who recommended it hasn’t actually read it. The ACKS shilling on /tg/ really is ridiculous and there is a certain predictable volume of posts from culture warriors who don’t read or play games. But I’d still be happy to hear anything that anyone has to say on the subject of vancian d&d vs tolkienesque d&d vs REH d&d, in ACKS or otherwise.
>>98891911No good way to tell, I've been accused of samefagging hundreds of times over the years and its never been accurate so I think our perceived pattern recognition is a lot less accurate than most of us would like to think. Overall I get more out of being upbeat than shitty. There's already lots of people here who prioritize being shitty about every thread they see. Its easy to get dragged into arguing or shitposting but I don't think that makes the board more like how I like it so I try and not. Doesn't always work, we all have our moments.
>>98891861>Most of them are talking about an actual game with discussions of mechanics.>"hello fellow posters what do you think of X rule?">"gee willikers, it's swell! It's the best rule of all time! Make sure to buy the books!">"yes, I sure do enjoy that rule, it is one of the rules of all time. Thank you for posting that rule."You can do that forever. We've seen you trolls do it, and it's what makes up 80% of the /osrg/ posts these days when you're not calling each other fishfag.Don't act like warped people couldn't make game posts passive aggressive. There's actually something super fucked up about you trolls taking something like posts about games and trying to use them as spam fodder to push your ridiculous agenda.And it's not working. Your game is dying, your thread is dying, and the plan you've come up with is to try and poison game discussion as best you can and expect nothing bad to result from it.
>>98891927>I get the sense that the guy who recommended it hasn’t actually read itNot only have I READ it, I have ANNOTATED it. I have at least 100 annotations in the PDF. See picture.
>>98891927Could be, I think >>98886935seems like they have enough understanding of it to talk about it with some depth. I think the required conceit of vancian casting is that it fits well for gameplay and has some themeing from appendix N, but isn't well suited for tolkienesque magic from the way most people seem to want it. I am not a big tolkien fan personally so its not a style I want to imitate but that being said I have heard people say the Beyond The Wall ritual casing has more of that slower mystical feel. I'm more inclined to try closer to vancian dying earth spells are math monsters trapped in your head than Valar and special elven metallurgy sort of things.
>>98891899>there's nothing stopping you from making and having those except yourself at this point.Except a troll who floods threads with fake forced discussion about a game no one is interested in.Retard.
>>98891613>ACKs monsters must be pretty wacky if you’re claiming that the default option is Vancian.That was in the context of the magic systems, which is where the adjective "Vancian" is normally used, and the main rule difference that Macris introduced in the Heroic Fantasy handbook.>>98891959>seems like they have enough understanding of it to talk about it with some depth.See >>98891958
>>98891967>>98891941And again, not my game. You're so fixated you can't even read my posts, all you can do is actually troll like calling someone a retard when they're trying to help. If you've filtered it, its not a problem. If you're reading the thread to see what's going on and if there are things to engage with you can easily find the posts that interest you and engage with them. Posts you don't like don't magically delete your own posts. Its not a fast enough board for flooding or spam to work. How's your game going? What are you building or running?
>>98891931>Doesn't always work, Spoiler alert: it won't.>we all have our moments.Or years, in this specific instance.
>>98891899>... yes?No.And no one is falling for it. No one is engaging with the ACKShill posts, it's just ackshill-to-ackshill-to-ackshill and all in a thread where they know they're unwanted and the reason they come here is to deliberately try to make people have to comb through hundreds of their fake posts in order to be able to communicate with whatever real people are left.Trying to defend them by saying the benefit of the doubt should be extended to known trolls, even self-admitted trolls, and acting like the solution is to treat them like real people is so dumb that it's pretty much guaranteed you're just a dumb troll yourself.You cannot justify your presence in these threads when they have your own thread you've already ruined just by being yourselves. You cannot tell people that hundreds of clear and deliberate shitposts are supposed to be treated like they're genuine just because you're scared of losing deniability. Your whole "fag cop/bad cop" routine of trolling on one hand and then begging people to just accept the trolling and never call it out just doesn't work.
>>98891988>And again, not my game. You're so fixated you can't even read my posts,No, it's easy to read them. Impossible to believe them.You're defending trolls, and trying to pretend you're not one of them. No reason to take you at your word.
>>98892022>>98892030You don't have any game at all do you?
>>98891988It goes both ways.>If you're reading the thread to see what's going on and if there are things to engage with you can easily find the posts that interest you and engage with them.Then why do you care about people pointing out how shit ACKS is or how dumb its trolls are? You can move past them just as easily as they can move past the ACKShill posts.>Posts you don't like don't magically delete your own posts. Its not a fast enough board for flooding or spam to work. Then keep discussing games here and don't worry so much. And stop defending trolls, you dumb faggot.>How's your game going? What are you building or running?Got three going right now. The one I'm most excited about is actually one I'm playing in though, because the DM is an absolute fucking legend and I'm learning so much from him.
>>98892054Instead of fighting the inevitable for thousands of posts, go stay in your thread instead of trying to police the entire board and force it to agree with you.
>>98892084Promise you'll go back to the /osrg/ and never post in these threads and I'll consider it.
>>98892090>He thinks he can ban Anons from threads.How does one post on /tg/ every day multiple times a day for three years and still think acts like he's a mod on reddit or RPGnet?
>>98892103You're not the guy who decides what OSR is.You dumb troll. You can't accept people disagreeing with you. You can't even admit that there is disagreement, even to the point where you have to pretend everyone who disagrees with you is one person.
>>98892108>"don't be a troll seeking conflict">"HOW DARE YOU I NEED TO TROLL OTHERWISE PEOPLE WILL KEEP SAYING THINGS I DON'T AGREE WITH INSTEAD OF LEAVING THIS WEBSITE"Christ, you're a nutter.
>>98892118>You are the one who cries about how good RPG and Reddit are for banning games you don't like, why don't you try going to those sites yourself?There's a misunderstanding, Anon. I was talking to fishfag.
>>98892129Do you not get how filters work? You can hover them and glance at what the hidden post says. They just make it a lot easier to go past all the shit if you want, they're not a contract.>Leave the filters on and keep them on and stop replying to things you don't like.I mean, yeah. But, it'd be good for this thread to hit 300+ before the next one is made and useful idiots are useful idiots.
>>98892135No one cries about the /osrg/. You guys are free to do with it whatever you want.You're the one crying how the Open OSR thread isn't following your objectively wrong definition and not conforming to your delusional worldview.
>>98892103>It applies wherever the fuck I want, bitch.Nah, it doesn't apply anywhere outside of your little head.You think you can force this board to accept something objectively wrong. You think you can do this by... flooding? Trolling? You think that works on people?Only thing that has any real lasting effect on people is good arguments, and you don't have a single one. You've got hills you're willing to die on, but when you do die your retardation will fade away, just like your favorite game is going to do soon enough.
>>98892170I hate to have to tell you this, but I'm not the only one using and advising the use of filters.You really gotta stop with that one guy business. You want to act like you're not just a troll, but then you just reveal yourself by saying shit only the trolls say.
>>98892177>just like your favorite game is going to do soon enough.Not soon enough. This whole episode should have been resolved back when the trolls were just starting to get uppity.
>>98892129>I can accept that you're disagreeing with meCan you?People accept you have a different defintion of OSR than the one used by everyone else. You have a whole thread all to yourselves where no one harasses you over your dumb ideas. Hell, no one even argues with you about them. Probably because no one visits that thread anymore, but still.You don't seem to be able to accept other people using the more common definition though. That's why you're here after all.
>>98892146Brother, too soon.
>>98892234>you have a different defintion of OSR than the one used by everyone else. False.>Hell, no one even argues with you about them. Probably because no one visits that thread anymore, but still.LMAO you have been trying to take /osrg/ for three years. You're still trying to raise a sperg army against it. You only relented partially after the mods explicitly told you to stop it on IRC.
>>98887576>i would take 2e just to avoid gygaxian proseIt's not that bad. 2e is definitely more clear with its rules and editing/formatting, but "gygaxian" prose isn't the worst I've seen.Some newer OSR books go full ham. I was reading some norweigan or scandinavian game a few months ago and all I recall was that it took me an hour to get through the first five pages.
>>98889888>Should i play the enhanced edition or get gemrb and play the original?Original is fine. Enhanced edition has some QoL stuff but also some culture war BS, so it's up to you if that's a deal breaker.
>>98892283Gygax was 100% in his "I'm going to use this to try to jump to being a respected fantasy author" mode when he wrote AD&D.
>>98891792Succesful kickstarter=/=succesful product, especially if the goal doesn't cover the production cost.Lots of kickstarters hit their initial funding goals and then went bust, or they had to cut back on what was promised Stuff like using AI instead of paying for human art.
>>98892080I stopped posting here>>98892063had tings to do. Wow everyone is very interested in arguing a lot. What's the game you're playing or what sort of thing did you learn recently that stuck out?
>>98892295>culture war BSWasn't there a mod to remove that or something?
The thing where people keep complaining about a game they've filtered is nuts though. You guys really need to stop doing that. Giving more attention to a thing you're trying to get rid of is exactly the opposite of how that works. And when its this much attention to the point you can't even bring up things you like or are interested in its clearly making enough negative impact on your life you should adjust.
>>98892283>I was reading some norweigan or scandinavian game a few months agoNeat, what was it? I looked at Doomsong recently as a nusr thing and it had a lot of janky ideas and running with the grimdark warhammer frp everything is covered in shit nonstop. The take on hirlings and running as a party or organization with a roster of different characters was interesting though. Not as fleshed out as it could be and lacking in resources beyond >just make itup I guessin terms of recruitment so that's obviously a miss. Combat wise it had a neat take on the order of operations style osr combat rounds, essentially characters and mosnters get a dice pool they place on the combat cycle so they can try faster options or slower things, different skills have more or less dice to distribute. Fairly sure it breaks down looking at the light, normal and heavy attacks with light attacks being very likely to miss by being faster but always at disadvantage and people fuck the math up for that all the time. I do like kreeb's art though.
>>98892311>respected fantasy authorkek that's a mythological beast if I ever heard of one.
>>98892485>kek that's a mythological beast if I ever heard of one.At least if you're low church. Wolfe, Tolkien, Machen, Dunsany, Lewis, Lieber, Herbert etc. were all either Catholic or high church Anglican or at least raised as such.
>>98892556Yeah but he was writing in high Gaygaxian.
>>98880167
>>98892612I seen it on the internet.
>>98892419The DM is running this heavily houseruled version of OD&D, and he is just so completely comfortable with it that he makes everything look effortless. One guy who was new to OSR games couldn't figure out what he wanted to play, and the DM just asked him what was the one thing he had always wanted to play. He said maybe an MU, but the DM just brushed that away, and after five minutes of what was half soul-searching, half confession, he admitted that what he always wanted to play was Blanka.The one from Street Fighter.A few changes to the monk class, and some changes to the character so it wouldn't be a direct Blanka clone, and we had an electric mutant join the party and it didn't feel weird or unnatural or even comical. The guy was playing it dead straight, grunting out terse phrases when speaking in-character, and clearly enjoying himself. He seemed so happy, that when another guy's pretty generic fighter died, that guy, upon realizing he had rolled well enough to make a monk, he asked if he could make King.The one from Tekken.The way the DM handled it is hard to put in words, because it never felt like he was being too permissive or letting the party get weird and wacky, he was working with the players to understand what it was they liked about the characters and helping them play something that felt right for the world and the game. Just a lot of patience and purposeful inquiries and a little coaching and encouragement, and it became really easy to forget it was a party that contained not-Blanka and not-King even though he was wearing a jaguar mask and only communicating in points and growls.Instict would have told me it would be dumb and I would have told the player to take things more seriously, but the DM not only made it work, the Blanka and King ended up really working well together and the players went from strangers to probably friends for life in just one session.
>>98892679That's a great story and for sure there are weird social pressures about character archetypes people get caught up in. Having a even handed approach and figuring out what people actually want and how to make it work can be an interesting challenge. I've mostly had it come up with people coming in from 4th and 5th edition wanting to play tieflings or dragonborn. I'm usually running something light enough its not hard to make that work very easily and I've found getting players to think of >one advantage being this race gives you >one disadvantage this race gives you and some reskinning is often enough, the enthusiastic player takes care of the rest with the electric mutant grunting. Glad your game's going well dude.
>>98892612The mixed system character effects and monster species is pretty good anon. Saved. I read it as >8 Breeding Rifle. and the imagination went places.
>>98892727>I've mostly had it come up with people coming in from 4th and 5th edition wanting to play tieflings or dragonborn.I've had that happen too, and my response to the guy who wanted to play a dragonborn was "maybe don't."It was probably the right call at the time because that player really struggled to get out of the 5e mindset and playing a dragonborn likely wouldn't have helped, but looking back it now I feel like I could have done things differently and better.
>>98892793I went with >We don't exactly do it that way when it last came up for me. It worked out, they were a really good player it just took a bit for them to shake the ideas. Its hard being patient sometimes or not laughing but I have actually had a guy go >I walk forward until I trigger the combat encounter and had to figure out how to de-emphasize that style of approach.
>>98892575Emphasis on high.
>>98892919>"I walk forward until I trigger the combat encounter">"but they're just chil-">"Did I stutter?"
>>98887576>I would eat shit to avoid having to boil an egg
>>98892439>The thing where people keep complaining about a game they've filtered is nuts though.He never filtered anything, he just claimed he did because he thinks that would own the chuds. No, it doesn't make sense, but that's how fishfag do.
>>98892389>or they had to cut back on what was promised>Stuff like using AI instead of paying for human artYou'd really have to have fucked up for that to happen.
>>98892965kek I ended up convincing them through a mixture of describing the monster as quite fearsome looking and their party convincing them they needed to plan a bit. Half of them died in the fight and he started to figure out it was a different sort of game.
>>98892679>after five minutes of what was half soul-searching, half confession, he admitted that what he always wanted to play was Blanka.Not the direction I was expecting but okay.
>>98892311Gygax wanting to be a fantasy writer is cute.Gygax wanting to be a hollywood script writer is not though.
>>98893101A dungeon with 2 factions, one a self replicating hologram race obsessed with cataloguing results fighting another self replicating fishspawn obsessed with adding their book to the local orthodoxy's church with a variety of accents like cowboy and albanian is pretty funny.
>>98892311I tried reading the Gorn novels.
>>98891545Embezzlement.
>>98889888>We all know the 80s nerd Dick measuring contest is won by Roe "Hawkwind" R. "Designed Wizardry 4, founder of animego" Adams III.The one thing I know about him is his alter ego was a ninja and that's the most 80s thing ever.
>>98893375Gygax wrote Gord Novels. Star Trek had a Gorn race. Norman wrote Gor novels.
>>98892793>my response to the guy who wanted to play a dragonborn was "maybe don't."There's a bunch of old school dragon people races.I think every setting had at least one tucked away somewhere. The ones in spelljammer are especially cool because they were taurian and looked like they raped furries to death for fun.
>>98893408They're all bad names.Gord especially though. Don't know if I'm dealing with a rogue or a pumpkin.
>>98893380Incompetance, more likely.
>>98893430Gourd's the thief, he steals pumpkins.
>>98893375I wonder how many of the "gygaxian" faithful have read them. I'm guessing not very many, if any.They end in a wild way though. Complete annhilation of Greyhawk because Gygax wanted to kill the setting after leaving TSR.
>>98892919>I walk forward until I trigger the combat encounterThat takes a certain amount of balls.
>>98892476>Combat wise it had a neat take on the order of operations style osr combat rounds, essentially characters and mosnters get a dice pool they place on the combat cycle so they can try faster options or slower things, different skills have more or less dice to distribute. Fairly sure it breaks down looking at the light, normal and heavy attacks with light attacks being very likely to miss by being faster but always at disadvantage and people fuck the math up for that all the time. This sounds interesting. Basic, but if it actually ends up adding meaningful depth that's exactly the sort of shit I'm into.
>>98891958I just wanted you to talk about whatever that material was that you were excited to use, you avoided and evaded that while giving a vague-but-glowing review of the book, which is the kind of behavior that we see from ACKS shills. >Planning either a Howardian or Tolkienesque campaign using its rules soon.Like this is a weird line, it’s a weird place for an “or” clause, like saying “I’m looking forward to using this Coca-Cola to either quench my thirst or clean my toilette bowl”. There could be a story as to why you’re undecided (I tried to ask you about that) or you could just be listing multiple uses for product.Anyway, what’s going on in your image? Is it being updated to ACKS 2, or just edited by a balance freak, or what?>>98892022>No one is engaging with the ACKShill postsI did though. If you actually want to exclude ACKS you’ll have to be more clear in the OP, I thought you were just making fun of the old thread.>Your whole "fag cop/bad cop" routine of trolling on one hand and then begging people to just accept the trolling and never call it out just doesn't work.Also wrong, he’s been controlling the OSR here for years, that’s why he gets to troll you all day in your non-general while the mods groom his ACKS thread for him. I notice you spend a lot of time trying to tell him that he’s losing, and I suggest that this might be cope on your part.
>>98888731>Incompetence and oversight in hindsight do not diminish intent.Gygax’s intent wasn’t to standardize and polish the game, it was to do the opposite, to expand the boundaries of the game (in a mostly narrative direction). Also >>988886112e is when they standardized and polished the game. >it's just that the scale of the undertaking far exceeded expectationsIt’s just that Gary was smoking too much weed and eating too much cocain. He was taking the piss. Also he was never that great at design and he was probably nervous as fuck about the position he put himself in.>inconsistent and scatterbrainedlol>GygaxYes, because of the drugs, and because of the lack of talent, but also the drugs.>and friendsNo, fuck your lies, they weren’t on drugs and they weren’t his friends.
>>98894442>I just wanted you to talk about whatever that material was that you were excited to use, you avoided and evaded that while giving a vague-but-glowing review Nobody avoided anything. You were given more than enough information. Anons have no duty to spoon feed you or prove anything to you. You can literally just pirate the PDF and take a look for yourself.>ACKS shillsJust because somebody likes a game you don't does not mean that he's "shilling", you fucking troll. You should instead apologise for the unfair accusations rather than doubling down on this bollocks.So don't be surprised when Anons call you "fishfag" when you parrot his schizo troll bullshit.And don't be surprised if they start to shitpost ACKS in retaliation for your retarded "shilling" accusations: You deserve it, asshole.>Like this is a weird line, it’s a weird place for an “or” clauseNo, it isn't. In the specific rules of that book, the two use the same core rules. The mechanical differences have to do mainly with how corruption from magic works, as you could easily have verified with a ctrl+f on the book's PDF in thirty seconds.>Anyway, what’s going on in your image? Is it being updated to ACKS 2, or just edited by a balance freak, or what?Modifications to have it work for ACKS 2 by Arbrethil, as the image itself says.
Also fate points are for prancing homo-men. Just saying.
>>98892612kekkk
>>98880167New thread>>98894889>>98894889
>>98894891Troll thread repeating the troll OP, report and ignore.
>>98892612>Queer icthyian HP 25 who speaks common as a second language. Two attendants HP 19, 15. Queer icthyian goes into berserk rage against ACKS characters and denies them access to his pussyThis thing is starting to understand what fishfags is, that’s too far, it’s time to unplug it.my sides tho
New thread? >>98894987>>98894987
>>98894891>New thread>98894889>98894889Thanks for keeping our resident schizo mongoloid at bay, based janny.
Another win for the jannies, very nice.
Last for 2e is not OSR.
