Wait, bestiality is actually an evil action and shapeshifting to have sex with different races is always evil in dnd?Not to defend it, but I feel like it’s a big fucking stretch to define that action as evil.
>>98900008It's up to the individual DM, like everything else in D&D. Rule 0, remember?
>>98900008>Wait, bestiality is actually an evil action and shapeshifting to have sex with different races is always evil in dnd?Bestiality implies non-sentience and by extension a lack of consent/extreme power imbalance, but I'm gonna have to ask for receipts on the second one.
>>98900008Echo of 90s edge, the design goal was a large swath of content receiving a "that's sick!" response of both approving and denigrating character.Then the denigrating "that's sick!" pissed off the suits enough for them to horribly over-correct with the counterpart on the other side of the edition revision line, which we're stuck with some exceptionally retarded canned responses about Alignment from to this day.Why have D&D writers always almost entirely forgotten about the Law/Chaos axis? So many of the issues would be handled really well by just consistently shelving freedom-versus-security and personal-liberty issues there.
>>98900358>but I'm gonna have to ask for receipts on the second one.
>>98900392Yeah guess it's a perspective thing. The difference in intellect and power between even a peak human and a dragon is still very significant.
>>98900360>Why have D&D writers always almost entirely forgotten about the Law/Chaos axis? SBecause chaotic-good fags are sick bastards who can outdo most of the evil creatures and races in wanton cruelty.So it's easy to have good vs evil than explaining that shit.
>>98900392I think the original idea was 'Shapechangers will change into animals to have sex with nonsapient animals' but what they ended up writing was accidentally 'shapechangers using their powers in their bedrooms with fully sapient partners is inherently evil' with a side of 'dragons are all perverts because how else do we get half dragons'
>>98900392>>98900411I think it's more 'superior beings knowingly entices and tricks lesser beings to fulfill prurient desires'.The suggestion of the dragon is it using it's incredible powers to fulfill it's own desires at the expense of others, not a druid, a religious figure, shapechanging for a communion, or getting dirty with a knowing partner that agreed to it.I swear, people on this board play dumb; the issue with these books is that they require nuance where the typical audience of autists see only black and white.
Is it evil to change my dick into a bigger dick?
>>98900455>not a druid, a religious figure, shapechanging for a communionI honestly think that druid shapeshifting and using befriend animal to fuck a spider, is way more morally wrong than dragon fucking humans(even if it's rape).But guess nature way wise, it's fine.
>>98900008Wow man, we didn't have this one for how many years?The bots surely are cleaning up the bottom of the archives
>>98900360I think that Law vs Chaos is a more interesting conflict than Good vs Evil because Good vs Evil just devolves into "PCs vs NPCs" and/or the only difference between Good and Evil is what they look like and which side they fight on, especially as now the designers would rather draw 20 than create rules that interact with an objective alignment system and are player-facing.Aristotle and Laozi basically created the closest thing to an IRL objective law/chaos axis with the table of Pythagorean Opposites and Yin vs Yang respectively, I made my own version which further separates them from good vs evil (the list originally had a Good vs Evil distinction, which I removed) and which adds fantastical elements which could be fought over in a fantasy setting.| Law | Chaos ||---|---|| Odd | Even || Unity | Plurality || Right | Left || Male | Female || Conventional | Unconventional || Straight | Curved || Light | Darkness || Technology | Magic || Religion | Psionics || Square | Oblong || Civilization | Nature || Golems | Undead || Planning | Spontaneity || Monarchy/Aristocracy | Democracy/Anarchy || Honesty | Deceit || Idealism | Pragmatism || Conscientiousness | Openness |Some of these are mostly aesthetic but the non-aesthetic could be very easily used to create actual moral dilemmas, however again, the current designers of D&D would rather draw 20 than add any in-setting laws or governance, and also in modern fantasy magic is seen as good/lawful and very easy to understand (since it uses video game logic) rather than chaotic and hard to understand/control, and therefore taboo/sinful (this can be very easily done by just adding spell fumble tables which have mostly negative effects that affect the caster and are long-term, more similar to Warhammer Fantasy than D&D 5e).
>>98900411It says "type, shape, OR intellect vastly different from his or her own", currently the main reason that people with high decoupling find bestiality taboo IRL is because animals aren't sapient (as >>98900401 pointed out), this passage states clearly that it is wrong due to virtue-based/guilt-based morality rather than just consent-based morality, and it seems pretty clear that even if the shapeshifting part was not written, sex with awakened animals or shapeshifters in the form of animals would be bestiality. Otherwise, fucking retards would be indistinguishable from bestiality.
>>98902974>indistinguishableNo, but its in the same ballpark, arguably worse depending on the level of retardation.
>>98900465There's a spell for that in... Nymphology or Chainmail Bikini that makes your dick -look- huge to the perspective of the viewer, the one who created it was outed as a fraud when an ogre compared it to a tree trunk.
>>98900008It was supposed to be the pinnacle of Evil and the best grimdarkness they could come up with is being gross, incest, furries, and cancer.
