Should barbarians have access to developed metallurgy instead of attacking with raw materials? Give me your points.
>>98890482Historically, people considered barbaric were often pretty good at metallurgy, with chainmail, for instance, being a "barbarian" invention, with Romans copying "barbarian" sword designs and so on. Therefore barbarians should be masters of metallurgy and of using weapons made of metal, actually.
>>98890503/thread
>>98890482Barbarians and cavemen are two different groups of people.
>>98890482entirely depends on the fluff. if it's a tribe or "race", no they shouldn't. anything beyond bow and arrow should be too advanced. basically marauding hunter gatherersif it's a "class" of some sort, yes they should have access to metallurgy in the sense they are familiar with the concept and no stranger to its uses but widely oblivious to the craft itself. a guy prone to fits of blind rage shouldn't possess the mental fortitude to temper metal for hours on end but should be perfectly fine wielding a long sword in heavy armor
>>98890503well if you wanna play that game, every foreign NPC speaking a language that's not intelligible to the players should be called a barbarian with no other determining factors
>>98890521>if it's a tribe or "race", no they shouldn't. anything beyond bow and arrow should be too advanced. basically marauding hunter gatherersYou wouldn't view a fictitious people inspired by ancient Germanic or Celtic tribes, for instance, as barbarians, then?
>>98890482No metal, just bonk with favourite bonk logThen eat themYou have to eat all of them
>>98890546as I said it depends on the fluff. celts had very little in common with the typical DnD barbarian I guess OP alluded to and the germanic tribes resembled them only in sofar as they are both fighting mostly naked and shout alotwhat would you make out as the defining characteristics of a barbarian that the celts would come to mind? genuine question
>>98890596Not that anon, but cool tattoos, green colored motifs, sleek swords, some fae magic bullshit.
>>98890596Germanic tribes were settled, agricultural, metal-working people, too...I don't think Germanic and Celtic tribes were different enough that it'd make much sense to consider one of them more stereotypically barbaric than the other. I'd consider relatively disorganized/loosely organized society and maybe lack of literacy as the things that come to mind first as defining traits of barbarism, former more than latter, though obviously the term is inherently pretty relative, defined by being different from sicieties that identify themselves as civilized.
>>98890604by that logic a naked tattooed leprechaun would be a barbarian too. neat concept for a one-off PC maybe
>>98890626I would go with you on the point that barbarians would likely have oral tradition as opposed to written records. the part I don't agree with is the loose societal structure because like you yourself said what a barbarian is depends entirely on the time and civilization making the claim and the greeks who coined the term didn't have any more societal structure outside their city states than the germanics had outside their tribesI always thought of barbarians as hailing from cold lands. so at least there we have another shared point
>>98890650Tbh I think that the word "barbarian" would be best relegated to strictly in-setting use, ie. cultures in a given setting should call others barbarians according to their own biases and prejudices, and rule books shouldn't even try to give any kind of a clear, objective definition for the term. I figured it would've been pointlessly contrarian to post on a thread just to announce I was going to refuse to engage with the thread's premise, though, and obviously there is a fairly commonly understood barbarian archetype in fantasy RPGs that we all know OP's talking about. I know I'm far from the first person to say this, but I think that archetype would be better called berserker, and I also think that there's not really any reason to limit that archetype to particular types of cultures. I mean, a guy who gets really mad when fighting could just as well be a street brawler from some big city, or a member of a mystic warrior brotherhood that diligently trains and meditates to get in touch with and harness the divine rage of their god, or a bunch of other things that aren't a not!Viking.
>>98890482The only "should" that applies to your games is you should make your games how you want to play them.
>>98890482Barbarians do, savages don't. Get your shit straight. Note that savages, barbarians and even civilized men can go berserk or behave savagely.
Ironically the discovery of iron metalwork delayed the resurgence of large empires. Iron metalwork didn't require the complex international system upon which bronze relied so no large empire re-emerged for centuries. It was not until the NeoAssyrian Empire revolution state administration, military organization, and other stuff with the creation of the first standing army that Empires resurfaced.
>>98890900>Steelchuds vs globalist Bronzesois
>>98890693glad we agree on that part about cultures and archetypes. it's refreshing having a courteous conversation here
>>98890482I agree with what >>98890521 said, depends on the fluff and context for that specific barbarian. If you want to make some sort of crazed caveman or something inspired by a civilization who didn't have access to metal then yeah, they should mostly stick to more 'natural' stuff, but if you want to make something more like the european barbarians and stuff who did have access to metal, than they can and should use at least a bit of metal. Obviously nothing like a plate armor, but a metal axe, a metal-reinforced wooden shield, etc.All in all, I think mechanics-wise the way it is portrayed in D&D is fine enough, with them being able to use up to medium armor.One thing to keep in mind though is that people aren't stupid. If a caveman got into contact with metal stuff for some reason, they'd see that metal beats bone, wood and fur, so they'd probably try to use the metal tools and armor if they got their hands on it.
>>98890948>sees chainmail shirt>wraps it around his arms and fists Are you going to help Ogg or is it none of your business (chainmail backhand doesn't sound pleasant regardless of how suboptimal it is)?
>>98890482You mistake "barbarian" as a historical term and "barbarian" as a fantasy concept.
>>98890962Yeah I can see that happening lmao
>>98890503Mod protected spam thread.
>>98890482Should native americans have access to muskets, horses and trinkets?
>>98891251It doesn't matter. Threads don't exits for the OP, and discussion on what the word "barbarian" even means is fine.
>>98891254Yes, it looks sick.
I don't have any art of central or south american savages with guns but that would also be cool.
>>98891254not unless they give me pelts, some wives for my men and their lands
>>98890482Bronze yes, iron maybe, steel no.
>>98892494>steel no.
>>98892499Not until you can lift the lid anyway
>>98891295There is no discussion.
>>98893160Yes there is.
>>98891251What the fuck does that even mean? Id lurk more and find out but you single line cunts never expand on this shit
>>98893488He probably means that even though the thread is obviously low effort mods just leave it lingering on. Which is really less of a "protection" and more about low effort becoming the new normal.
>>98893160then fucking start one instead of bitching around
>>98890521No character likely knows how to temper metal they probably buy their equipment from blacksmiths who do
>>98894911do you know what it takes to maintain metal weapons and armor?
>>98894911>I don't know how X is being done>Therefore, my character, who does that as part of day to day routine, is also cluelessAnd yet I bet you absolutely love to go all "Well, actually..." on your group anyhow. You fags always do this gay shit
>>98890537>every foreign NPC speaking a language that's not intelligible to the players should be called a barbarian with no other determining factorsThat's rubbish. Hellenic party:>Medes are barbarians if no one in the party speaks Median>Medes are not barbarians if even one member of the party speaks MedianMedes were barbarians because they didn't speak Greek as their native language and they didn't follow standard Greek customs. The Romans were barbarians, the Egyptians were barbarians, even some Greeks were barbarians because they lived in the backwaters and didn't speak any standard form of Greek.
>>98897468>even some Greeks were barbarians because they lived in the backwaters and didn't speak any standard form of Greek.you mean like Cypriots?
>>98890482Depends if they have the knowledge, resouces and infrastructure to make them theirselves, someone to steal them from, or someone selling them? I suppose you could just let them 'have' them via magic or something, but that's pretty lazy world building.
>>98897468great way of missing the point
>>98897468the whole barbarian thing has nothing to do with custom, it is all about language and more specifically the languages of the north and the west of greece.Places they had minimal contact with, what you would now call the lands of the slavs or the western europeans.There a Phoenician presence in athens and a few others from the mediteranean as permanent residents, traders etcThese guys lived besides if not inside greek society.They were not barbarians in the same way a gaul from france was.They were people from the known world. I am sure that an ignorant peasant outside thebes would consider them all to be the same but it would not be the case for a Corinthian, an athenian or a man from ephesus or miletus
>>98891251Actually yes, I tried making a puckee level low effort spam thread(it wasn't even the only one, see picrel). I'm surprised it generated genuine polite discussion.
>>98890482Son of a blacksmith
>>98890482They should start without the ability to speak greek and no appreciation for wine.
>>98897851Cypriots are Xvarts.
