If you utilize quantum ogres or railroad your players along adventures you devised, then you are a god awful DM, you probably should just throw in the towel, become a player yourself and let another DM other than you force you along their storyshitting writing exercise. RPGs are meant to be played, they are supposed to be fun for players and the DM alike, they aren't supposed to be stage plays you've committed to during a first fucking draft. The only pure RPG experience is one of the sandbox play variety. You set out plot hooks, adventure hooks, what-not, and you let your players PLAY and you adjust your creations to form fit your group. If you aren't playing real RPG with your players, you're fucking up. It's the only way to be.>I do something else blah blah blah and my players love itYour players are retarded, and it's up to you to fix that, iteratively, one adventure at a time. Your campaign sure cure them of that dumb ass shit. Full stop. Even when you know your group you should be inventing adventures they probably wont engage with an throwing those curve balls, because no matter how smart your friends (I assume they are your friends at this point) are, they still might not know there's a type of situation or a context of an adventure they're unfamiliar with might be super cool and fun. I could go on and on about how to be a better DM, and my first suggestion for everyone on /tg/ is to not assume I want you to either play D&D or another system, you stupid fuck.
>>98884642>The only pure RPG experience is one of the sandbox play varietyYou had a point until this part. Everything following that sentence is drivel, though.
>>98884642Who hurt you?
>>98884650dont bother, it reposting threads from rpgnet that are over a decade old
>>98884650Holy retard.
This place has more bait than fish.
>>98884656Oh yeah? Toss a link.
>retarded opinion>OSR Boomer brain-rotted by lead poisoningEvery single time
>>98884642This mod thread even has the same picture as the laat time.
>>98884642>portents of the dark lord's return are becoming increasingly frequent and spell calamity and doom should it come to pass>...but not today, the skinny player in the beanie with the groomed beard and the waxed mustache has convinced the other players that it'd be really "epic" to play at being magical farmers and gay romance the bar man at the tavern
>>98884754My favorite crypto-namefag is the one who calls all TTG characters "DNDs"
>>98884837I've come to almost kind of appreciate that guy basically openly announcing his shitposts.
>>98884667Strange way to describe the board as slow
>>98884825story time?
This is the way I DM: I create 4 or 5 threats at threat level 1. For every threat the party deals with every other threat goes up by 1 threat level. If any of the threats reach threat level 4 a major event happens. So for example if the party ignores rumours of orc migrating south to deal with a necromancer they have the ability to face the necromancer at a lower level with less powerful minions but the orc threat grows and if it reaches threat level 4 they sack and burn a major city creating a refugee crisis. I've never had any complaints about this method it gives the players the opportunity to decide out what level they want to face each threat at.
>>98885207I've seen you post this several times. Never encountered a DM who had that kind of system. It's very sandboxy and most of the campaigns I've played in have been driven by a main story with minimal side questing.
>>98884642>quantum ogre railroad copypasta>video game OP imageClassic bait
>>98884642Got any examples of a quantum ogre you experienced, or are you just a beauty nogames?
>wahhhh the GM needs to make providing my free entertainment a full time jobNah, get fucked playoid.
>>98885364He wouldn't know even if he experienced it, that's the whole point.
>>98885698It more than likely that they just don't know it by its older pre-rpgnet moniker that the quantum ogre used to be known as over on the old Nutkinland forums.
>>98885207I'm working towards something similar but less systematized. I think of it as a faction clusterfuck: I introduce a bunch of factions with different ideals and goals, some of which will overlap in interesting ways, and let the players decide what they want to focus on.I'm realizing the shit I'm good at is urban campaigns with a lot of mystery.
>>98886734Good luck with the urban adventure. It's a running joke in my games that any small market town the party goes to ends up getting burned down.
>hey GM I want you to quadruple your prep time so my every ADHD whim and impulse can be catered tohow about no
>>98885364You mean like the bandits that kept popping up no matter where we went?
>>98885544>>98887616Take some pride in your setting, this is your world, and their campaign to experience. You should actually enjoy being a DM and give it your all, or you should hang up your hat and just sit down at the table as a player.
>>98887898I find coming up with the campaign setting and designing dungeons and encounters more fun than actually running the game. I've never had a problem putting a couple hours a week into this. I just put on Star Trek in the background and type up as many contingencies as I can come up with.
>>98884642>MOOOOM! COME SEE! I've posted this thread again!... remember when there was an actual human posting this for (You)s
>>98884642No you're just a shitty player who couldn't follow and obvious plot hook to save your life. Sandboxes suck. go to hell.
>>98887940Planned stories are for reactionary NPCs and will never match the story highest of a written script with 4+ people doing improv. Sandboxes are for the proactive agent of destiny master race.It's literally the same distinction between pre and post Christian heroics and European literature.
>>98887912You a real one.
>>98887940Sandboxes are the only real RPG experiences to have. Everyone strives to allow the mechanics of a system to come into play and affect the game world. Any speaking to the contrary is deceitful.
>>98887995I always DM sandbox games, and they always turn out well. The more planning I do, the worse they tend to be.
>>98888811>The more planning I do, the worse they tend to be.Don't you just hate that?
>>98894411No, not really. I actually enjoy doing sandbox games.
>>98895748I've sadly yet to play in a sandbox game that didn't shit the bed in some way or other. I know it can be done, but most can't seem to pull it off.
>>98895950Skill issue. The better the worldbuilder, the better the sandbox.
>>98896767Not always the case in my experience. Played in a sandbox game that the dm had wrote so much backstory and background elements for that, yet didn't have a lot of things for the actual players to do in it.
>>98896782Any writer will tell you writing isn't worldbuilding.
>>98896782>wrote so much backstory and background elements for that, yet didn't have a lot of things for the actual playersSkill issue
>>98887616You simply have your players declare at the end of the session, what goals will they pursue the next session. That way you never have to prepare for more than one session ahead, and actually reduce your workload.They say they want to pursue that one story hook from the last session about an abandoned mine and a lost dwarf expedition? That's the only thing you prep. Or just fucking plop a ready module that roughly fits that storyline into the world and your prep is done. That's what you're playing the next session. If they decide during that session that they want to pursue another goal, that goal waits until the next time you meet. Simple as.>>98896782That's where the DM fucked up. A sandbox starts with a town, two points of interest in the vicinity, and maybe a few named NPCs. The rest of the setting grows organically depending on the player actions
>>98884642The only quantum ogre is this thread when I try to avoid it.
>>98897191That's a good methodology for running sandboxes, but don't forget that it's your world, your setting, and you should be fleshing it out how you like in your free time. Treat it like your baby.Preparing a bunch of stuff that the players cannot engage with is just pure skill issue.
>>98897191I usually start with a large AF map with some idea of where things are and interest locations are going to be. If I already have an idea of what is in those locations, they will get that. Otherwise, if players are exploring areas outside of interest locations. I note it on the map and it improves and establishes new worldbuilding.
>>98887616I've never once done prep for any session past þe first. Þe players are forced onto þe first quest to bring þem togeþer & I make everyþing else up as I go & listen to my players talk & scheme amongst þemselves.
>>98898458what is this homestuck faggot ass quirk shit you're doing
How do you start a sandbox campaign? How do you explain why these random adventures are seemingly inseparable without beginning the game on rails or breaking everyone's immersion? As a player, I've often thought "why is my character even hanging out with these guys lmao" and I can't get immersed.
>let another DM other than you force you along their storyshitting writing exercise. See I play and GM, and what you call a "storyshitting writing excercise" I call a "fun and compelling adventure". Genuinely you have no idea how satisfiying it is to plan shit out with the GM and then see what the big twist is on it when the dice get rolled. No plan survives contact, and sure sometimes there are no rolls and shit just happens, but when you actually talk to your GM (or your players talk to you as a GM), you get an idea of what they want, and it goes from "what the fuck do I do" to "how do I put a fun twist on this idea". You might enjoy samey boring dungeon crawls where nothing matters and nobody plays actual characters, but you're an OP on 4chan ergo you are the smallest minority possible so who gives a shit what you think?>RPGs are meant to be played, they are supposed to be fun for players and the DM alike>they aren't supposed to be stage plays you've committed to during a first fucking draft. Take your pick, are they meant to be fun for players and GMs or are they meant to be whatever your autistic faggot ass deems "fun"?>The only pure RPG experience is one of the sandbox play variety. More like the most boring one. Nothing cool ever happens in a sandbox campaign. It's all half-baked dogshit.>you adjust your creations to form fit your group.Again, what if we're friends (as we should be if we're playing TTRPGs) and we know what everyone wants? We don't need to play guessing games like (you) would since you're a friendless loser.>Your players are retarded, and it's up to you to fix that,Eat a massive bag of dicks you subhuman faggot, those are my friends you're talking about and even the most airheaded one of them has a higher IQ than (you).TLDR; kill yourself you subhuman nogames faggot.
>>98887995>Everyone strives to allow the mechanics of a system to come into play and affect the game worldThat's why you only roll dice when the outcome is in question, retard. Even if you've been making plans with the GM, sometimes the outcome is in question and sometimes, shit goes sideways and now your character has to react to their current situation which is now out of your control. This is gonna be true whether you're running a lazy, half-baked litterbox game where nothing matters and nobody gives a shit about anything or an actually good game where everyone is invested and cares about their characters and the game world and what happens to it.>Any speaking to the contrary is deceitful.Ironic since that's all you've been doing.
>>98899278>How do you start a sandbox campaign?With a town and points of interest in the vicinity. Check out Worlds Without Numbers and it's sister systems. The PDFs are free. The authors philosophy for GMs is pure sandbox, he provides a shit ton of system agnostic random tables to help GM create the world and inter faction conflicts on the fly, and goes in depth into how to run a sandbox. But the general philosophy has already been stated in this thread.You start with fleshing out a general theme of the world, you flesh out the first few hexes with a downtime area for rest and resupply, and some points of interest to explore. From there you only prepare for one session ahead, after the players declare what they want to do the next time.Also, have each player declare a short term goal (to be done in a single session, like obtaining a horse), and a long term goal (some substantial feat within the world) and reward them in XP for achieving that shit. Force agency>How do you explain why these random adventures are seemingly inseparable without beginning the game on rails or breaking everyone's immersion?That's the players job, and what session 0 is for. After you briefly explain the setting and it's themes, the players decide on what kind of party they want to have within the setting, and create the characters accordingly. Then they tell YOU why are they travelling together.Teach your players to be co-creators of the story, not just passively respond to you>As a player, I've often thought "why is my character even hanging out with these guys lmao" and I can't get immersed.It's a dangerous world out there, and without someone having your back you don't survive in it. That's enough, provided party stands roughly on the same page in terms of morality. And establishing that is what session 0 is for.Another fun thing to do is to roll a dice to randomly connect each player character with another one, and have them come up with some shared connection in their past
What are you gonna do if I keep doing what I do, faggot?Gonna knock the dice out of my hands?
>>98884825If your other players legitimately follow this they’re retarded. I’ve been that player. I’ve payed next to that player. Now I deal with that player. Make time to run a one-shot with them if you can and drag them into some secret side mission shit to make them feel special. Then give them some secret society bullshit with quiet objectives to fulfill every dungeon so they get to scratch their attention itch without interrupting play. It worked on me and it works for me now.
>>98887898I have a negative amount of interest in defining “my world” just for others to play in. My players always get a say in what the setting is like, and a lot stays undefined unless it becomes relevant. I know they like this because they do it too. I also have a negative amount of interest in any “correct” way to do it and even less in trying to fix anyone doing it “wrong”.
>>98899293>what you call a "storyshitting writing excercise" I call a "fun and compelling adventure"because you're retarded, fix it
>>98899296>That's why you only roll dice when the outcome is in questionWhat relevance does this have? sandbox is the purest form of RPG, and if you don't lean into them you are fucking up, and wasting the medium.
>>98899961Ironically it sounds like you're doing it right
>>98899278You have a social development disorder anon.
>>98901040>Calls others retarded>Is only capable of generating encounters with random tablesOkay retard.>>98901052Because Litterbox games have players roll the dice for everything like it's QWOP because the GM is a lazy faggot subhuman who can't be bothered to do prep.
>>98901211skill issue
>>98901211>generating encounters with random tablesAgain, what relevance does this have? you can hand place things if you want, that has nothing to do with storyshitting.
>>98884642>I don't play games, and I let reddit dictate my opinions to me.We can tell, faggot. Go away.
>>98899293>how satisfiying it is to plan shit out with the GMSo it's a storyshit then.
>>98899278I don't have to explain anything. Each player has their own goals, and they choose where they live in the world, and they choose whether, when, and for how long they work together, and with whom, if at all.
I am so glad I don't have to deal with random table generating faggots at my table, and the fact that it's being slowly driven out of the hobby by actual play campaigns becoming more and more common for every system. Soon, they will be extinct and we will never have to see shit threads like this again.
>>98903622You seem to equate sandboxes with oracles for some reason. I never use oracles, yet all my campaigns are sandboxed. I think you just hang out with people who suck at improv.
>>98903622All in all, a system with no random generation sounds boring, if you decide and hand place literally everything it's going to be so fucking tedious. Besides, no dice? you going to ditch your dice? nothing random, eh.
I usually just have an open ended plot hook and use the players and their choices as a way to try and invest them into a story that I am writing on the fly based on what they are doing. Of course, I try to stick to what the initial plot hook was and logically fit that in with the party, but I have gotten some great moments from players influencing certain parts of the "plot" I haven't thought of yet.Of course, if you have fag players that fag up the game, this becomes exponentially harder.
>>98903747>nothing random, eh.>Random table Please lurn2reed esl brownoid
>>98903981>learn to readFTFY
>>98899278you can just tell your players to make characters that are already a team or otherwise have a reason to hang out with the party.if that's not enough, you also more often than not have enough leeway to make the premise of the campaign do this for you, such as "you are all gang members", "you are the local lord's entourage", or "you have all been put on the same boat and exiled to a cursed island"you're the GM, you can just tell the players things
