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Has anyone kitbashed models for this yet?

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>>98845900
Yes, although I paint at a geological timescale so most remain unfinished.

A couple others have Agarthan figures too, and if you have any colonials/ancients/renaissance stuff lying around you're pretty much good to go already.

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>>98846742

>>98845900
Of course, although its not the primary focus, and given we all live in different countries its very much just as a pass time.
Here's my full Atlan warband, I have a French one that still needs painting, and am ordering the bases to finally get further on my Mu one as we speak.

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>>98846724
Left to right, front to back
> Spring Gunner
> Baron Phosphorus
> Immortal
> Hospitalier or the 2nd weird named Atlan Hero
> Warmaster
> His pet titanium-infused Siegesaur
Sorry for the crappy picture quality.

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>>98849960

Alright, since its a slow weekend (I'm on vacation next week so hopefully tomorrow I can start knocking things off the list of things to do), I'll report these, and get on to finishing the story today or tomorrow.
That way anyone who missed them in the last tread will be able to find them as well more or less in the same spot.

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>>98849966

>>98849957

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>>98849970 >>98859656 >>98861271

>>98849960

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>>98850103 >>98859656

>>98849966

>>98849970
Oh Schliemann's gonna have a blast with this.

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>>98850625 >>98859656

>>98850103
(In a certain way, we both got very lucky, I don't think there's a lot of Expeditions that could have dealt with that many Husks beside the Germans, maybe the Austrians & Atlantis. The Hydra would be a challenge for anyone, I think, 7 AP is the highest in the game by far, but being in the middle of the scale in terms of troop/equipment cost & quality and being able to slowly boost my effectiveness through the agarthan engineering mods meant I could manage losses easier than most. At least, if our positions had been reversed, each casualty it could have caused on Schliemann's team would have been felt more heavily, and France's hope against that many Husks would have been pretty thin.)

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>>98850864 >>98861271 >>98893767

>>98850187
New part. I first intended to have this a bit shorter, but couldn't convey everything I wanted within a paragraph.

>>98850625
That reminds me of "The Doom That Came to Sarnath" in all the best ways while still having its own energy. A most excellent piece!

>>98850864
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Now I want to do an "Aftermath" one as well.
(Yes, this is mostly a very obvious shameless bump post to buy me more time to do the next installment.)

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>>98855204

>Failed Monk
There is no prohibition against the Lemurian underclass taking up arms, to enact such a decree would be entirely counter to their philosophy. Rather, the impoverished farmers and herders of the 6th layer are expected to know and accept their destiny of their own free will. Those who still aspire to greatness must instead take pilgrimage under a vow of passivity. The traditional understanding is that if fate allows for one of these nonviolent pilgrims to reach their destination unharmed then they are slated for greatness. The truth is that only those few who break their vow and fight to reach their destined potential shall ever live to see it.

>COMMENTARY
Lemuria, to me, is exactly the sort of faction to do this sort of two-faced bullshit. But they're also the sort of faction who will at least accept when someone does actually survive against all probability. They'll still scheme to plot their downfall but that's what they do to everyone anyways.

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>>98857006 >>98859656

France Day 3, finally facing the Hydrasaur in full force. Now unto the last chapter.
>>98852397
Thank you, added!

>>98855204
For the rifle mods, was upgrading them all before using them a dramatic choice or the result of rules interactions?

>Lemurian Juggernaut
The Lemurian Juggernaut, named for a resemblance to the Jagannath of India, serves as a way for the Lemurians to carry the ruins of their forebearers with them on long journeys. Oftentimes these structures are the moving courts of chariot kings, or else a gathering place for scholar-profits. Those unable to ride along have been known to instead show their commitment to the flow of destiny by casting themselves before these constructs’ massive stone wheels, coming out either fully invigorated or flattened. With so many powerful alterations in the flow of Chi brought into one place, it is hardly surprising that the Lemurian Juggernauts are known to have an **interesting** effect on local probability. (Asterisks indicate italics here)

>>98857006
>For the rifle mods, was upgrading them all before using them a dramatic choice or the result of rules interactions?
Mostly the result of rules interactions, only my Heroes could install them, I was strapped for materials for the first 2 days. Also, by sheer bad luck, the Mobiles that had fell the day before were 2 out of the 3 ones I had already upgraded, so I was mostly back to single-shot rifles. I forgot to add some mention about it in the story, but it also gave me the time to have the camp cook (and iirc correctly, Maspero helped too) whip up some croque-monsieur for the snipers. Well-Fed Cavern Climbers with Ammo Feed rifles are probably some of the best ranged infantry in the game, if only temporarily (they can spend an additional AP to gain +3 Accuracy on a shot, which is very awkward on a single shot rifle.)
The scatter roll putting the hydrasaur 3/4 of the way to the other side of the zone and Kaiser`s eminently magnanimous act in not going for the Walls, which would have forced me to leave my position, ended up saving me as much as the snipers and artillery hitting the target.
The conclusion is halfway done, I will post it tomorrow afternoon.

>>98855204
>>98850187
>>98849970
>>98849966
Really need to try a campaign like this. Seems very fun.

Also, looking at this, we do still need to update the map, a lot of places in need of naming.

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>>98861446

Alright, so it also grew too big for a single post, so this is the Conclusion, part 1 out of 2. Hopefully its readable, I had to mess more than usual to get it to fit the upload limit here, and it warped a bit the characters.
>>98859656
It was. Once I'm finally done with this I want to start working on a new multizone map for a railroad-theme campaign.

>>98849966
>>98850625
So, in game terms, Maspero discovered the spike (through some test or table roll, I presume) and got Clues in exchange for sacrificing the Hired Hand? That's really cool emergent storytelling.

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>POST DATED 21/10/2026: RECOVERED FOLLOWING TECHNICAL COLLAPSE OF HALF THE GODDAMN INTERNET
>>98859656
>Map Names
I figured out recently why I've personally been bad about this, I think it comes down to wanting to also fill in the history of regions at the same time since just giving a place a name feels wrong to me without a little story attached. Mirazhee is down right now but at some point I'll try to start circling features to connect them to preexisting lore we have and see how many names can come from that.

>>98860090
>Americans didn't count.
That got me

>Lemurian Rockbreaker
The Rockbreakers are theorized to be Lemurian Neanderthals, an archetype of cultivation, or perhaps even Gorg offshoots. It is certainly true that, unlike the majority of modified Lemurians, their cultivations are able to be passed on through the generations. But while entire communities of rockbreakers persist amongst the many canyons of the shattered 6th layer, as many choose to join the tribe as were born into it, to the eternal confusion of outsiders. The Rockbreakers themselves are devoted to breaking through the layers via the excavation of the Great Rockbreaker Wat, cultivating immense strength to do so. That very same power allows them to brutally rend fortifications and armour when away from their grand temple.

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>>98865085 >>98866670

Alright, we can post again, good.
Now for the actual, for real this time, conclusion to this campaign.
>>98859656
>Really need to try a campaign like this.
I will very soon upload the finished book for it, so anyone will be able to run it, but I also want to keep coming up with those, they are very fun, if long to write up (at least for me, but we could always alternate in writing them.).
Ideas for the next one.
> Railroad laying campaign, ends when one player fully connects through two zones that aren't adjacent to each other.
> A gigantic and unkillable Death-Wyrm is eating through the map as players are trying to evacuate the area and save as much of their colony's valuables as possible/steal as much as they can.
> Bring the True Religion to Agartha. Each zones have a Deepfolk/Amazon/Subhuman encampment, players are trying to convert as many to Christianity/Bhuddism/Necro-Islam/etc.
>>98861271
>So, in game terms,
Beside the Wall placement, everything was done through rolls or mystery token bag draws. Each zone occupied by a player would generate events each new day (they weren't ready for the first, hence the surprise Husk Fortress appearing in the night right beside the German Camp.), and had a set of Ruins you could get Clues from when Excavated.
I drew the Sacrificial Altar first, the the Statue to an Unknown King in the swamp. The Statue could give a lot of Silver if I looted it without breaking it, but also, if it remained in place when the Boss appeared, its first control phase had to be spent trying to get to it and destroy it. That was not relevant because we ended up rolling the Ayahuasca as boss, which could never have gotten there anyway.
Kaiser drew the Husk Fortress, he could have occupied it, but this was not a defensive game, and the Skull Rock, which had similar rules to the Sacrificial Altar, but decided against using it to gain Clues.

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>>98866670

>>98864960
And so,
> Victoire pour la France!
The last image of the story doesn't reflect it that well, but there was simply no way for Kaiser to prevent me from exfiltrating with the Chest, at this point, the Garde carrying it could move 18 across and I had the start of the 5th turn, I believe (regardless, a single activation would not be enough to break through, and beside a bad case of mushroom spore poisoning, that Garde was still in good shape.). Kaiser had also the turn before depleted its explosives, clearing out most of the first position. Had it been a normal game, without the Chest being the sole objective, he would certainly have won (but, also, I would have acted somewhat differently as well).
I won through a combination of factor, hyperspeed walkers that can cross 30 Movement in a turn, low aggression hostiles (things would have been very different had we rolled the Deep Rocs) and using more than half my Expedition as a meat shield.
If anyone else wanted to play this campaign, in further runs, I'd recommend thinning out the Mushroom Forest, starting it next to the Walls for maybe 2-3 hexes, then put more Maze tokens in the middle. That way Clues might be more important, and the final battle would be more open, it wasn't hard to avoid the Maxim's fire in the Dense Vegetation.
> picrel
Tally of kills for the Germans.
> Despite losing the race to the treasure to the French, the German colonies in Mnemosynia still managed to profit from the La-Marie Expedition. The diplomatic kerfuffle it created died down easily enough, neither side truly wanting to get swayed into conflict by petty academics, even if the treasure *had* turned out to be quite valuable. Fallen-Paris envoy's solution might have seemed meager, at the time, but they floated the idea of recognizing an hypothetical German claim on La-Marie. While no such claim has been made yet, a small camp was set up, and Germany now stands to challenge the Tsardom's monopoly on Ayahuasca Flesh.

>>98864960
>>98865085
What was the motivation for focusing down the Ayahuasca out of character rather than opening up on the French first thing to get the chest?

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>>98867772

>>98866670
Iirc, it was in good part because I had to spend the start of the first turn Overclocking the Gardes Republicaine,excavate the walls, and string along all my Expedition from the first camp to the one next to the inner zone in order to pass along the Warm Meals the Cook would prepare. The Gardes ate them up and moved once, in order to have the max AP possible on the second turn, which I was first to go in. All that set up meant Kaiser had no other targets for his Maxims than the Ayahuasca for the most part of the first turn. He also had no way of knowing that for its first Control phase, we would roll picrel, which with the German's generic -1 to all Control rolls, meant the big shroom guy would just sit there and wonder what's happening (if anyone was wondering about the Ayahuasca's passivity, that's the reason, not that I went easy on Kaiser with it.)
All the inside of the valley was Difficult Terrain as well, so moving in with anything else than the motorrads would have been slow going, and left the dragoons to take hits from my snipers on a 9 and below, essentially.
There was no way to stop me from retrieving the Chest past the first turn. Had he managed to kill the Survivant and the Beastle, he might have been able to cut off the Garde carrying it on the 4th turn, but they were still standing when he (finally) ran out of explosives.

>>98866670
>>98867175
This is a pretty good demonstration of why you should make sure you read your campaign books and rule fully before committing. I didn't bother to read how slow the Ayahuasca mass was, nor how fast the Garde Republicaine could be made. Moreover, I purchased the Maxims not knowing that the mushroom forest would block LOS. I don't think there would be a tool that could retrieve the Germans from the situation, other than comping the day 2 and day 3 silver winnings to purchase a mech or a zeppelin. All that said, the game could have easily gone another way, given all the variables that were randomly generated. A few fewer hostiles on my end, and a few more on 2E's, or a different boss being generated, it could have gone either way. And that's the great satisfaction I had with the campaign. 2E's victory was well-earned. The conclusion to the batrep sums it up pretty well. The treasure was a foregone conclusion, but slaying the boss and giving as good of a beating to the French as I had gotten was more than satisfactory.

>>98867772
>I don't think there would be a tool that could retrieve the Germans from the situation, other than comping the day 2 and day 3 silver winnings to purchase a mech or a zeppelin.
Either that, or perhaps purchasing a lot more Dragooners, send a few for the treasure and the rest to cut me off right from the start? But you'd have had less explosives to clear the Husks as well earlier.
As you said, every variable was set on the 4th day for a very peculiar kind of engagement, and just about anything being different could have led to a very different game.
I'm still writing an "aftermath" story on it, a full text one like the Interlude, but yeah, this was not a clean victory for the French, not at all.
The Society Expedition, assembled in a hurry and needing to launch in the following days in order to catch up to the Germans, had to rely almost entirely on France's immediate support to do so. Eiffel would arrange for the boat & equipment, the Armee would furnish most of the men, and the Society would provide the intel. All agreed to a 3-way split. The Society & Eiffel are elated, of course. The academics have secured their finances until the coming of the Deluge, Eiffel funneled his share into his foundry for some secret project (everyone in Orleans are crossing their fingers for another mech or something, and not another monstrous mega-project like the World).
Some in the Armee realizes what this was, however, a massacre that they only won because of a specific strategic objective. The French Defensive only held on for a moment before being brought to the point of breaking.
Next Campaign, we can look into designing it so that the resolution is not so much of a "steal".

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>>98870087

Alright, so, back to the regimental game, for a bit.
Here's what I got so far.
The maps will have a choice of entrances based on your faction, Colonials, Deep Nations or Tribals. The black rectangle is the deployment tool, I know how to fix the transparency, it'll just take some fiddling around, but the black part is a void, you'll align the zone to your entry of choice and that gives you your deployment.
The chart to the right will help us keep track of unit activations and events, possibly also indirect fire from artillery, etc.
For artillery fire resolution, here's what I got.
> Direct Fire & Indirect Fire modes. DF is probably going to be resolved like normal unit fire. IF will be quite different, and probably why you'll bring artillery in the first place.
> All artillery units (blocks, not attachments) will have a number of Guns, and a set amount of shots it can take based on that. I foresee the mechanical limit to be around 4-5 per unit, at the very most 10 per army if you lean toward bombardment, but we'll have to see. Historically, at this point and in the Great War, some armies (France, for one), had the habit of cycling through their available guns, bringing only half to the front each day, in order to limit weardown and gun casualties.
> You will have "Artillery Fire" hex tokens, possibly 3 sizes, to reflect fire from light, medium or heavy artillery. Shooting is simply placing a token within range, and testing Training on a D10. If you fail, remove the token. If you succeed, mark it with X, X being ([Initiative step at which the Artillery fired]+[Training Roll result]). X is the Initiative Step at which the Artillery Fire hits on the next turn.
> When a Artillery Fire token's step comes up, scatter it, same way as with 2e (hence the hex shape of the token, makes it easier to determine direction). Possibly D6 Scatter if you have no Spotter, and d10 Scatter (so, with a chance to remain in position on 7-10) if you have one.

>>98870020
(cont.)
> If the token lands directly on a unit, it'll take a Direct Hit, if it lands within a certain distance it'll be a Near Miss.
> Casualties are preset
> Light Artillery : DH = d6, NM = d3
> Medium : DH = d10, NM = d6
> Heavy : DH = d20, NM = d10
So, you'll want to roll higher than the target unit's Initiative in order to make sure it doesn't get the time to run away. Also, to make full use of this, I'll be adding a Forced March Command.
> Forced March : This unit may only Move as its following Action. Roll a d3. In that many Initiative steps, Move it again, then take a Morale test.
That way a unit may hope to run away from under a gun's fire, and the artillery player will have to choose between putting all his eggs in the same basket, or layer his fire across a unit's potential path.
Also, it will give the Apeman a weird strategy in that you could attach a Shaman to a unit, Force March it in order to get it to intentionally Frenzy, and park it somewhere behind a forest but within 500m of the enemy's positions, so that monkey madness spreads over to them. If you can cover more than one enemy unit and none of your own, you'll at least be able to spread the majority of the casualties you would take from Frenzy to your opponent.

Finally got around to starting with A Soldier's Memories. I read Der Unterwelt in text form last Summer but am going through this one in the Audiobook, just caught up with the most recent post. The audio tricks and effects are very fun and not something I was expecting, having been used to TTS /x/ stories before. I did briefly feel like I was going insane during the start of the Muan priestess segment until I checked the text and confirmed what was writing. Overall, quite a TITanic listen so far indeed.

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>>98873506 >>98876956

>>98873372
The mood is perfect on this one. That's gonna be my new background for a while, I think.
> picrel
What I mean by "weapon" cards for the regimental game. I figured we could do the same with the artillery pieces, that way we can do one artillery unit card or two per faction (aside from attachments and smaller fire teams), but depending on the date of the battle they could have better cannons available to choose from as well.
I guess eventually I could backtrack the use of unit cards to 2e, many unit profiles are too big to fit, but for Hostiles, for example, having them in a deck to draw from could make things easier and encourage their use.

>>98873454
Also, its too small for anyone to read, and in frogspeak anyways, but the bottom line of the Gras rifle advertisement, translated :
> "The rifles manufactured by St-Etienne fears no rivalry. Any hunter who remains yet unconvinced should write to us, we'll gladly send one to test out before purchase."
On one end, massive chances of being killed in a stupid war you *know* your officers will find a way to bungle, even if its a guaranteed win, on the other, 20$ rifles that the Manufacture throws at you like its freshly baked bread.
Hard choice, really.

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>>98873724 >>98876956

Back to 2e
Start of a new Campaign map.
14 small zones, they'll be better defined in the end. Some parts of the maps wont be accessible, but I'll add in some terrain to make that less annoying on the eyes. The river will be crossable in some parts only.
I have a few ideas I can use for the story here, but if you'd want to see something in particular playing out, let me know, I can take it any direction you want.
It having a lot of zone gives opportunity to have a lot of random event triggers, exploration mechanics, etc.

>>98873716
Will these zones be separated by walls too? If not it might be better to have the small ones used for encounter rolling and then larger encompassing ones for the actual game to take place on.

>>98873724
I was thinking so, yes. Wall placement in campaign can't really be done like in a normal game anyway, we tried it for the first one with Atlan anon and they turned out to be completely meaningless, the map being large enough meant we couldn't plan for the additional delay ahead of time or know where we'd end up.
14 zones may seem like a lot of walls, but its really just 2-3 each to cross. Probably around 2-3 Day more than the last one?
Hopefully, since I have a bit more experience with these now, we'll be able to find ways to cut down play time a bit. While alternate activations is a lot more fun than IGOUGO, with only Hostiles to face for the first few Days and half of your time spent on Labour actions, it might go faster.
The river and general shape of the map would probably work well for a "railroad" campaign, both sides playing Expeditions sponsored by competing companies over being the first to have a track set across this particular area? With Silver profit being generated by how much intact tracks you have connected across a number of zones, so you can choose to zigzag and build a bridge to cross over, or stay on your side of the river and send some models over to sabotage the enemy?
But it can be anything, really, if you have something to pitch, please go ahead. I took reins of the last one's "thematic" direction, but it doesn't have to be this way.

>>98873790
>But it can be anything, really, if you have something to pitch, please go ahead. I took reins of the last one's "thematic" direction, but it doesn't have to be this way.
I do love trains, but we also have all of those colonial and deepfolk settlement buildings which haven't been used much, so having a more generalized colony building campaign could be a thing with trains featuring.

>>98875275
Sure, just two factions moving in and trying to find a spot that's livable and where profit can be made?
Some rather generic ideas that could be applied (in addition to the usual Day & Night cycle system and Hunger).
> Hostiles in each zones are only rolled once we enter in.
> Instead of a Boss, there's a nearby Deep Faction that may or may not view you moving in with a favorable eye. Random events allow to change your relation, its applied as a bonus or malus to Control rolls if models from that Faction ends up spawning?
> Some Zones are Anomalous?
> Weather rules?
> Random bonus in Silver to Recruitment the more you have unused Shelter, but it may only be used to recruit Workers and outfit them?

>>98875357
That all makes sense. Having hexes on the edge of the map or river be able to reroll a new random event every few days could also be interesting.

I'm imagining some of the possibilities already:
>Investing into diplomats to sway deep factions
>Setting up an Olm steed ranch
>Poaching the other player's Olm steeds

In this style it would probably make the most sense to judge winner by silver value of settlement/settlers and then to place mineral veins or valuable NPCs along the hexes between deployment zones to foster player contact and conflict.

>>98875371
A Ranch building for Colonials seems like a great idea, probably should have been done a while ago.
A Farmstead (probably just huge Shelter + generate some Rations each Day?) as well, and maybe a few others?
Not sure what a Bank could do (beside the obvious "gain a % on the Silver you put in it?" but I'd almost want one just to send Criminals at it.
Also, maybe
> The Factions from which your Expeditions are drawn does not wish to start a war with each other over this/your colony's growth will be negatively affected if it seems that it'll turn out into a battlefield, so you take a heavy % loss on Silver if you engage the other too much. Criminals are exempt from this. "Too much" could be defined as "attacking an enemy model while within Awareness Range & LoS of another enemy model of the same faction" (i.e., his buddy sounds the alert) & "wounding an enemy model and failing to kill it before it runs back within Awareness & LoS of an enemy model of the same faction".
This might mix well with your idea of deciding the winner on the value of the Settlement, but also build toward confrontation, if we say that for the last Day or the last few Days we drop this anti-conflict tax?
The two innermost zones of the map, one is on the shore, the other is in the middle of the river, feels like I should do something with that?
> Left (Shore) one is a Trading Post for the Deep Nation?
> Right (Middle of River) is a Great Fishing Spot, the Fishing action there returns more, but also tends to spawn worse Pelagic Problems?

>>98871577
I couldn't help myself with that intro, admittedly. >>98873454
These are interesting. Layout is readable, and has everything that you'd need for a quick reference. Though I notice that there isn't a cost associated with anything, though that might be in whichever form would be appropriate for divisional-level faction books.
>>98873716
>>98873790
So, there are two ways to go about this. This scenario would require at least one colonial faction, whose objective is to build rail length from one given spot to another. If the opponent is a Deep faction, their objective is to prevent the railroad's destruction, or to impede it. If the opponent is another colonial faction, the greater rail length, or first player to reach their selected end-hex takes the game. I'd love to play the Japanese and try this campaign out, when it is fully fleshed out.

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>>98896301

>>98876956
>Though I notice that there isn't a cost associated with anything
I'm going to add the cost once I had an idea of how impactful each bit is, its probably going to be something simple like 85 for a Line Company, 100 for a Garde Mobile, 5 for the Minie, 20 for the Chassepot, etc etc.
Speaking of which
> picrel
Ran a simulation, just to make sure it works. Started the Apemen 2km away from the Frenchmen. Its probably because there was nothing else to do here but shoot & run forward, and in part because of my bad luck with dices, but it turned out to be a slog. Apemen focused on Raising Morale and advanced carefully, only Force Marching once when arriving under 800m of the Lebel's fire.
The French spent their time Ordering Ranks, since they had little advantage from their Morale scale here, and reformed into a Line. Despite throwing 4 d10, I caused only 8 casualties until the apemen were within 300m, when I finally had a good salvo and downed 20 in one shot. Somehow, the Apemen maintained better Discipline than the French throughout, but failed to organize a Charge twice when they were finally in range, and when they did, the French had reformed into a Tight formation and they failed to cause a single casualty in the assault. The following Melee lasted 4 turns until I got bored, with the french causing (22 + 5 + 11 + 8) kills, and the Apemen causing (16, 10, 6).
Hopefully, adding more units will make things go down faster, not slower. If it doesn't, I'll perhaps have to redesign toward the more abstract.

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>>98878604

>>98876956
Between
>>98875275
and your interest in doing the Train one, I think this one might be a good occasion to make a map generic enough to work as either. I can run both campaigns that way.
>>98876956
>I'd love to play the Japanese
Japs vs Tsardom or Japs vs Mu are my first instincts here, which one would you prefer to face?

>>98877740
I think facing Mu would be fun. Could certainly take the colonial construction competition for a whirl if Tsardom ends up being more workable. Mu would be my preference, though.

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>>98886418

Found a perfect Muan Revenant
https://www.artstation.com/chosac

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>>98884093

Chart almost done, though I'm not sure what to write about the hierophant.

>>98881772
Here's my take:
>Hierophant
-Healers of Legend and Philosophers unmatched
-Modern Atlanteans are somewhat embarrassed by them
-"BRING TO ME MORE ORACLES! YOUNG ONES!"

Their lore doc entry highlights oracle harems as an important part of their characterization and the Jak image therein seems to back it up with his lustful(?) expression

Also, The Clockwork Thinker is currently a character so I'd change the middle part to
>Took a generation to build the only one
Which also makes it a bit funnier that Atlan copied it repeatedly. Although in-lore I don't think golems and thinkers work at all the same.

>>98884093
>Although in-lore I don't think golems and thinkers work at all the same.
Atlan golems are considerably more expensive, to the point it probably ought to be a multi-hex unit. Maybe it's the fact it is made out of titanium. If it is roughly the size of the atlantean thinker, then Atlan has somehow managed to make a massive advance in bipedal mechanical movement. I wonder if the germans would want one for their mech...

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>>98887537 >>98888471

>>98879750
Added him!
>>98886015
Were the Golem meant to be entirely mechanical in nature? This may be the result of too many hours of discussing this only with Atlan Anon live, and failing to share it with the group, but I was under the impression they had at least a necessary mystical element to their existence.
This is 2 years ago, so apologies if I mess everything up, but iirc it was that Titanium was "the Bones of the Titans", fallen to Earth after their loss against the Hyperboreans shortly before the first Atlantis pseudo-Deluge. Aside from its other properties, Titanium would be a "living" substance that, if brought in large enough amount, to the proper purity, and shaped into a living being, tends to becomes animated on its own. Might help justify why it can bonds as well to living beings.
Although, we could have this be true and still the Golems require some form of mechanical support to function better.
On a related note, I wanted to write a bit about how the mechs came about despite being introduced into the setting before any real amount of Rare Inner Earth minerals could become available on the market, and still have them be the result of "Agarthan Engineering", so how about the Agarthan part comes from the French meeting a Deepfolk tribe that, despite never really leaving the status of Tribals, turned animatronics into an art form? Like Theo Jansen's walking wind sculptures? Centuries of artisanal iteration created a corpus of techniques and schematics that, while still being oral tradition for the Tribe, could easily be translated into axiomatic rules.
The French mech was based on the kinesthetics of a heron, while the Landschnekt one was a crab?

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>>98887573 >>98890260

>>98886015
Resource-wise absolutely more expensive, but in terms of time effort not as much.
> If it is roughly the size of the atlantean thinker
To me the Thinker is the size it is (Not statue of libery big but probably at least T-Rex tall) because of all the thinking mechanisms needed to be stored inside of it. Golems, being nonmechanical in my mind, are probably only a few heads taller than an Immortal (The Titking would be the correct size for a smaller Golem, hence the in-universe surfacer theory that he is one). The thinker and golems may still weigh about the same depending on the density of Titanium vs Bronze.

>>98886418
Agreed that the Golems are mainly mystical. They are able to use Titanium melee weapons and Greek Fire Grease so it's not impossible that one could wear armour but that seems like a rather silly idea considering that they're already indestructible. Atlan does not seem like the sort of polity to be able to invest too heavily in technological works outside of the occasional spring-gun, and even that's really just a crossbow in disguise.

>On a related note, I wanted to write a bit about how the mechs came about despite being introduced into the setting before any real amount of Rare Inner Earth minerals could become available on the market, and still have them be the result of "Agarthan Engineering", so how about the Agarthan part comes from the French meeting a Deepfolk tribe that, despite never really leaving the status of Tribals, turned animatronics into an art form? Like Theo Jansen's walking wind sculptures? Centuries of artisanal iteration created a corpus of techniques and schematics that, while still being oral tradition for the Tribe, could easily be translated into axiomatic rules.
Well, France does have a tradition of stilt-walkers with guns to start from. It's not impossible that a few of them were in Paris, spread the idea during the fall as it mixed with Deep People ideas, and then got upgraded once Eiffel showed up.

>>98887537
Ran out of characters, so here's the video of the rideable Pedaalbeest
https://youtu.be/V3Lai0lZsWI

As for the German Walkers, their inspiration comes not from any Agarthan school of walker design but from the pictured Lemurian (?) Fuckery letting them see the future. What this means for causality is best left out of mind.

Since the thing about Neukraft is that they were only able to see the finished product in action and not the exact workings or design process they're really operating in an almost cargo-cult like manner. Hence the abandonment of quadrupedal walkers for the bipedal ones we see in Der Unterwelt despite the worse stabilization. They know that eventually it will work so they keep at it along those lines. There's probably a gorilla-like stage inbetween the chicken-leg version and the barely articulated prototype. The final fully bipedal version is of Deluge-era.

Part of me wonders if these two lines of design aren't the direct ancestors/historical echos of the Machinemen and Tripods. One is getting higher and higher with skinny legs while another is getting more humanoid over time. Maybe Mars was part of La Francophonie this whole time. It would explain the UUUULLLAAAA noises.

Actually, isn't bronze heavier than titanium? If anything, a titanium golem would be lighter than the atlantean thinker.

>>98888074
I don't think the weight of Titanium (capital T) was ever specified but I always assumed its on the heavier side (to contrast with Orichalcum, whish is explicitly light). Then again there are flying Titanium units but I never liked that idea.
>>98886418
The animatronic idea sounds kinda random and contrived to me. If I were to cobble together a reason other than "its cool retrofuturist shit so it's there", I'd prefer something more grounded and simple. Maybe the stilts might've been inspired by the Lost Years action: the need to rapidly move across the ruined city and fend off aerial attacks by the Sky People.
>>98887573
>As for the German Walkers, their inspiration comes not from any Agarthan school of walker design but from the pictured Lemurian (?) Fuckery letting them see the future. What this means for causality is best left out of mind.
My intention with writing the Golden Syndicate/Bifrost Society was to set up the latter as the ones leaking Hyperborean knowledge to German military via Tirpitz et to deliberately rev up the German war machine and provoke the Great War. I feel like Lemurians have way too much agency between all we've set them up involved in, as is.

>>98888471
I hate to take a strong, contrary stance here, but more writing would need to be done to set up the Bifrost\GSyn idea. I don’t dislike it in principle, but do we need to cast the Germans as villains here? We have so many variations in geopolitics from OTL that I don’t see it as necessary.

>>98888534
I certainly didn't intend to paint Germans, collectively and specifically, as villains beyond the degree anyone in German industry and armed forces at the time already was. It's just an Agartha specific layer on top in the form of a cult/secret society working behind the scenes, tapping into the late 19th century German occultism and volkish schizoism (which would likely be reinforced by the absolute state of Catholicism and Christianity at large in this timeline) and tying it to the Hyperborea. I don't plan on Willy taking the hyperpill or anything. If anything, it diminishes the villanousness of actual real people who didn't even need any supernatural nudging to kill millions.
You are right to demand more substance, at any rate. I'll see what I can do.

>>98888471
>My intention with writing the Golden Syndicate/Bifrost Society was to set up the latter as the ones leaking Hyperborean knowledge to German military via Tirpitz et to deliberately rev up the German war machine and provoke the Great War. I feel like Lemurians have way too much agency between all we've set them up involved in, as is.
The Hyperboreans being behind it (especially the fox) does make sense, but so does Lemuria in the sense of wanting to obliterate the British. I don't have an especially strong preference either way, although there is something to be said for leaving it ambiguous perhaps.

I would like to mention though that for Lemurians having agency it's really the only thing they can have. In terms of tech level and social organization they're the lowest of the Agarthan powers, and certainly the most isolated (Old Mu can go through walls so layers presumably mean little to them). Having schemes within plots stretching across all of the layers is a good way to get them involved with other powers when they've got the 6th layer to themselves. In the case of Germany though I don't think it is too important either way for them to be around so long as someone is telling the Germans things they should not know.

>>98888534
>>98888670
For the Bifrost society in particular I do think it kind of detracts from the Golden Syndicate to have the brother characters be the founders of both. It sort of deemphasizes the 3 subfactions who make up the majority of it in the rules. I'd rather have the brothers stick together and found the Bifrost after breaking away from the Syndicate at its founding or later (Maybe the Halifax incident is the lynchpin? They could see it as a pointless revenge scheme against the US or as not going far enough to start the Deluge)

Might as well mention it while we're on the topic, but I am fairly certain that the Agarthan timeline is so far diverged that a traditional Entente v Central Powers Great War is not possible

>>98889055
Ran out of space again but by saying a traditional Great War is impossible I mean that there's no way in hell any version of Italy joins with France, and the Tsardom is either fast-tracked for an early civil war or liable to somehow hold together a bizzarro league of the 2-3 emperors against the Ottos. So we might end up getting something deeply silly like a surprise Franco-Ottoman-Atlantean alliance against Italy-Germany-Russia with the UK and Austria as wild cards. And considering that Germany and France managed to reach an agreement over the elevator they might not even be against each other and instead decide to go in against Italy together.

>>98888471
>>98887573
>The animatronic idea sounds kinda random and contrived to me.
Alright, I wasn't that attached to the idea.
>>98889055
>>98889078
>but I am fairly certain that the Agarthan timeline is so far diverged that a traditional Entente v Central Powers Great War is not possible
It really isn't. Or at least, not without finding some alternative reason that somehow forces everything back together, which I think is a missed opportunity. The entire geopolitical landscape is different, if only because there's a lot more camps on the board than just Liberals/Socialists/Conservatives. France has at least until now shed itself of the moronic parliamentary fights between liberals and conservatives, which had in part contributed to the dominoes falling in 1870 OTL, and imo contributed a lot to both France's strategic disarray and its inability to perceive it. If France wants a third go at Italy, that makes sense, but not at the cost of getting flanked by both Austria & Germany. It may be giving too much awareness to France's government, but the way I see it, placating Germany and making sure they don't grow too close to Italy is the obvious strategy.
The Great War should see alliances shift and grow smaller as paranoia increases.

>>98889233
Oh, and also, an actual Great War would be Napoleon's worst nightmare scenario. The better Epigea does against the Deluge, the more time he has to peel the last layer of the onion. He would certainly want everyone up top to be at peak military readiness, or as well as they could be, which requires some conflict from time to time, but not the kind where you lose millions of soldiers and civilians every few months.
So despite all the evil villainy La Ombre is up to, a lot of its work, in the most roundabout way, is to manage the scale the Great War will take, and to avoid bigger wars on the surface when possible. Flashpoints, military expeditions, that's good, but nothing much bigger.
The Great War will happen, and it will degenerate into the Deluge no matter what, there's no way to avoid it, but I always thought it would be a very drawn out escalation with multiple unrelated causes.

>>98889257
>but I always thought it would be a very drawn out escalation with multiple unrelated causes.
So sort of a reverse of what happens OTL where we see something like Mexican/Brazillian revolutions against the PACT and the Boxer Rebellion equivalent against the Taiping and the Russian/Austrian civil wars and the Italian/Otto partitions all merging into one big conflict rather than splitting off as a result of one? I like that, it has a boiling frog angle to it.

>>98889342
>all merging into one big conflict rather than splitting off as a result of one?
Exactly. With the number of prophetic characters in the setting, any singular cause that didn't have some sort of blanket "it can't be prophecized about" rule to it would be too easy to pin down and prevent. Even if there was some sort of prophetic intelligence war between one side that wanted the Great War to happen and one that didn't want it, it would take the pro-war side to win over almost every other Power, Great or not, Agarthan or Epigean.
But History knows it is coming to the end of the Loop, so no matter how many tries it has to take to ignite the powderkeg, opportunities will keep popping up.

>>98889055
>For the Bifrost society in particular I do think it kind of detracts from the Golden Syndicate to have the brother characters be the founders of both. It sort of deemphasizes the 3 subfactions who make up the majority of it in the rules. I'd rather have the brothers stick together and found the Bifrost after breaking away from the Syndicate at its founding or later (Maybe the Halifax incident is the lynchpin? They could see it as a pointless revenge scheme against the US or as not going far enough to start the Deluge)
I'm not, like, terribly attached to the brother narrative as is, so I'm open to changes and what you propose might as well be as good an idea.
>>98889078
>but I am fairly certain that the Agarthan timeline is so far diverged that a traditional Entente v Central Powers Great War is not possible
Hard disagree. If you remove the supernatural elements the European theatre is "what if Italy stayed in the Triple Alliance".
>And considering that Germany and France managed to reach an agreement over the elevator they might not even be against each other and instead decide to go in against Italy together.
Well, damn, there was a reason some people (me included) argued against the agreement when it was proposed, but we got a good book out of it, so whatever. Thing is, the Italian entrance hinges on the current Italian regime, well, existing, hence why Italy even has that leverage on the entrancelets like it does. Germany would get nothing out of stabbing Italy in the back really because instead of the current balancing act they'd just let France hold them by the balls in Agarthan matters.
>and the Tsardom is either fast-tracked for an early civil war
It's due for some upheaval but it need not be a civil war, an early and more successful 1905 and/or an ol' palace coup will do nicely (I have some ideas for post-Alexander II lore if it ever comes to it)

>>98889078
>or to somehow hold together a bizzarro league of the 2-3 emperors against the Ottos.
Now that IS one massive wrench in the works. By all accounts, Tsardom and Austria have many reasons to put their (admittedly bigger) beef aside. But once again, assuming nobody actually wants to retcon Husked Ottomans, I can live with handwaving it for narrative/vibe reasons.
And that's kind of the point some people miss, I feel. This was never going to be a rigorous alt history work and it never will be. The project started with the purpose of making a skirmish wargame in a pre-WW1 Vernian Inner Earth and then developed the whole narrative where WW1 triggers a psychic demon alien invasion apocalypse among other wacky but cool things we know and love. It would follow, one assumes, that any history we write must serve this narrative of 19th century factions and lost civilizations duking it out into the Apocalypse across the Layers. Like, this IS Agartha, that's why we're here, I don't know what else to say really.
Yet time and time again I see this bizarre sentiment that it's the other way around, that we must always adhere to the internal logic of the setting, which by itself is not a bad impulse. But to do so at all costs, ignoring the core premise? As if its not some subjective interpretation built on foundations that are themselves arbitrary, but some natural law, some platonic Truth of the setting existing independently of the people that contribute to it. And if it says (allegedly) 'No Great War' should our first instinct be to throw our hands up and just keep writing for the sake of writing like good zombie authors enslaved by our own text? Or make the text conform to its intended purpose? Because, as far as I'm concerned, worldbuilding projects fail when they do the former (and often don't even have a clear uniting narrative to conform to) and this one is still alive because we've been mostly successful doing the latter (and also the game).

>>98889602
>And if it says (allegedly) 'No Great War' should our first instinct be to throw our hands up and just keep writing for the sake of writing like good zombie authors enslaved by our own text?
I think I phrased my musings wrong, because when I said a traditional Great War was impossible I meant one in which the alliance blocks we know OTL form, not the overall existence of a Great War. The whole thrust behind the post was mostly an excuse to ponder over what silly combination of countries the eventual conflict would have, since it's funny to imagine the old Franco-Ottoman alliance rising from the dead alongside the rest of the empire or other similarly funny concepts.
Apologies if that all came across incorrectly, it's quite late here in the 4th layer.

>>98889233
>France has at least until now shed itself of the moronic parliamentary fights between liberals and conservatives, which had in part contributed to the dominoes falling in 1870 OTL, and imo contributed a lot to both France's strategic disarray and its inability to perceive it.
If anything, it has the potential be worse. This Third Republic had a marginally healthier start with the actual republicans dominating but the bar is very low. The conservatives are likely to consolidate around the Pope and keep seething about Italy and any attempt by the liberals to laicise even harder. Legitimists are in the shitter but Orleanists might be going stronger and the Bonaparist card is still unplayed, assuming Charles has a legitimate son. The may be no Ralliement in the long run.
My take is that France is still coasting along on the Agarthabuxx, but once the market for Agarthan resources is oversaturated and the bubble bursts everything will unravel, you'd have your pretenders,your Boulangers, your socialists coming out of the woodwork. At this point the agreement with Germany will look less like milking dumb bouches for money and more like giving away strategic assets, and the existing grievances against Italy are amplified by the Agarthan competition. Going to war with Italy is no longer just about Savoy or 'Deus Vult Lmao', it's about cementing monopoly over subterranean traffic in Europe (neither Iceland nor Tsardom's entrances can really compete, I think). Whoever hopes to maintain or seize power in France in the future will be heavily incentivized to gear up for the final showdown against the Triple Alliance and form a bloc with Britain and the Tsardom, and Germany, Italy and Austria in turn will feel boxed in and surrounded like OTL.

>>98888670
I certainly look forward to it. I don't want to monopolize the characterization of Germany in this period, and I do like the Thulegesellschaft kind of vibe that this idea taps into. I'm just thinking that when the time comes to start fleshing out the great war, I wasn't entirely sold on Germany being held singularly responsible. Of course I'm biased, as I don't necessarily buy into the school of thought that blames Germany for the Great War in OTL.
>>98889496
Regarding the Franco-German elevator deal, the initial draft of the book, before I even began posting segments, the fifth corps went through Stromboli, rather than Paris. The trouble I ran into was that the French are much more built-up in terms of the setting, and it was frankly easier to pull characters and environmental scenes from the Francophone end of things, rather than the Italians. It's funny, I went to a party a couple of weeks ago with my wife, and our host was a fiction author in days gone by. I brought a proof copy of Der Unterwelt, as he was curious what I had come up with. On Monday, I got a call from him saying it was readable, but that I shouldn't quit my day job. >>98889602
I agree with this sentiment. The rigorous work, if anything I ever wrote could be described as such, (It couldn't possibly.) should be in the minute details. The little inclusions and references that give the setting character, rather than the overall pace and direction.

>>98887537
This image is an excellent representation of the schizophrenia that I had hoped to induce by fleshing out the lore around the Mech. In terms of what Tirpitz might be passing to Alfred and others, my thought was always that his fat ass sits in a room with his little notebook, across from some entity, and the entity describes things in some pseudo-poetic manner, and Tirpitz interprets the nonsense, and hands it off. His muse isn't meant to give him a crystal-clear picture of what the next thing to build might be. So perhaps, when his muse describes an A7V, 'a great armoured hulk, crawling across the blood-sodden fields, the bark of it's weapons heralding the end', or something like that, he imagines something closer to Iron Harvest than to Panzer Leader. I hadn't thought about a Krupp competitor, though, that certainly opens up some possibilities.
>>98887573
In my mind, this is the correct interpretation. Cargo-cult is a little derisive, but the principle is more or less accurate. A 'sneak-peak', showing all this stuff off, the Generalstab getting a hard-on, and ordering that it be made, once it gets passed down to them via chinese whispers from their source. It allows things to get a little strange, not necessarily via Lemurian/Hyperborean manipulation, but by the screw-ups in interpretation.

I do have a skeleton for German material from the deluge/Great War era, but it's largely unfinished since I've turned my focus onto finishing A Soldier's Memories. Stuff like MP18's, variant walkers with Autocannons and flamethrowers, a warfex conspiracy compelling the implementation of Aufmarsch III West, that sort of thing.

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>>98890335

>>98889496
As far as revisions to the Bifrost, the character question, in my mind, isn't as important as what they're hoping to achieve. If the goal is to get the German people and the military moving in a certain direction, there are a couple of figures that might help characterize things a bit more fully.
If the hope is to inspire a turning of German foreign policy against Italy, you might consider refocusing on the writings of Guido von List. He's an Austrian by birth, but an occultic writer and theosopher that published a plethora of operatic and literary works involving volkish themes. His works involve the romanticizing of German pre-christian history, and usually involve a Germanic heroic protagonist being subjected to Roman (read Italian, I suppose) threat, and the overcoming of Roman tyranny via a return to the Germanic pagan roots. Carnuntum, Jung Diethers Heimkehr, Pipara, and Der Wala Erweckung all come to mind as having these themes.

>>98890304
Alternatively, if the target is France, you might have Warfex influence in the society state the obvious. There can only be one hegemon on the European continent, and that Germany should assume that position following a successful military action against French. You have a more practical, actionable angle, as the sane members of the Generalstab have concerns regarding French control over Germany's access to 3rd layer colonies, and in all likelihood, a softer, better understood target (the French army is good, but they can't summon up magical volcanoes in the field of battle). You'd still get the philosophical angle, by way of their understanding of France as the home of the revolution, and all of it's dreadful consequences, and a wart of liberalism and Catholic Christianity on the face of an otherwise 'unblemished' Europe. I don't have any figures to recommend here, as anti-French sentiment among the German occult communities didn't really begin until after the Great War OTL, but you could still play on these themes.

>>98889842
>but once the market for Agarthan resources is oversaturated and the bubble bursts
Without an outside element to force another market crisis, would we really have the time to get there? If there was no Great War and Deluge set, perhaps, in a generation or two, but we have around 5 years before its start, 15 at most if we stretch it out.
I could definitely see the conservatives & Catholic alliance heralding a return to a less friendly and more aggressive France, or at least pushing for it, and that could start already before then, that wouldn't affect however how important it would be to insure Germany didn't fall into the Italian influence sphere. Which shouldn't be that hard either, just ask, "are you, a dynastic power, willing to risk allying yourself to someone who might be told to find more royals to throw in a volcano by their living gods, on a whim?".
Austria is its own thing, and Germany had the whole "deport Catholics to Italy and turn a blind eye to what happens to them once there" thing which obviously isn't great, but its a stretch from that deal to going all in with vulcanists.

>>98891722
>Without an outside element to force another market crisis, would we really have the time to get there? If there was no Great War and Deluge set, perhaps, in a generation or two, but we have around 5 years before its start, 15 at most if we stretch it out.
See, that's what I'm talking about. There's this immediate wave of assertions presented as hard in-universe facts all arguing against the easiest possible solution that preserves narrative and game cohesion. Does anyone in the thread have an actual authority to chart Titanium and Neptunium markets from 1870 to 1900s and say definitely that, no, no crisis will happen by, say, the 90s. I'm basing my line of thought on the simple principle that, as more and more players enter the Agartha race and advance their colonial efforts, the thinner the profit margins will get, the more everyone will try to cuck the competition out of resource access. As far as I'm concerned,my word is as good as yours. Can I type up a PhD on it? No, and I don't want to, and I don't need to, and even if I did, you have no reason to read it or accept it. What we both implicitly do accept, however, by participating in a 19th-century-to-WW1-to-Deluge colonial skirmish wargame is the premise that there must be conflict between the game factions ultimately building up to WW1 and Deluge. Neat Entente vs Triple Alliance division serves this purpose well enough, riding the assertion and assumption train with no breaks until we condemn three of these factions to partition and/or civil war before the finish line seems questionable at best and I straight up don't see what do we even get out of it.

>>98891722
>that wouldn't affect however how important it would be to insure Germany didn't fall into the Italian influence sphere. Which shouldn't be that hard either, just ask, "are you, a dynastic power, willing to risk allying yourself to someone who might be told to find more royals to throw in a volcano by their living gods, on a whim?".
The thing is, Italian influence is a bit of grift because they ultimately need their partners as much as they need them, actually more than they need them as long as Germany can juggle France and Italy. Any aggresive move by Italy on Austria and Germany is a suicide, not just because France would be breathing down their neck, but because the first two would be formidable opponents in their own right. So Germany would lose comparatively little from being under the influence of Italy because there's only that much influence they can actually exert. At the same time the Vulcanists, not Italy as an entity, hold the keys to Stromboli, so subjugating them to control the entrance isn't viable as they can just fuck off into the night and leave the volcano closed. Neither side really benefits from antagonizing the other in the end.
France is different. France has no pressing need to whore out their entrance, it's just a nice bonus, and if the bonus becomes less enticing, cutting off the Germans is viable. Likewise for Germans, if it does come to war with France, victory would likely net them permanent access with Alsace-Lorraine on top. So really Germany can work with juggling their arrangements or sticking by Italy, but sticking by France alone just means giving them all the cards.

>>98893421
That all makes sense to me.

I think a big factor here is Japan's soon-to-be entrance (assuming they don't dynamite the thing as being more trouble than it's worth like any sane power would do.)
I haven't caught up with the non-TTS portions of A Soldier's Memories but Germany fully leasing out their equipment seems like part of an effort to woo Japan and in so doing get an entrance to the 4th layer that doesn't involve working with the flaming liability that is Italy.

Although considering that Hokkaido lets out into the middle of Saur Clan territory on the edge of the Land of 10,000 deaths their overall strategy probably has to have some more depth to it. Maybe instead of/alongside of the Bagdad railway they plan start working towards one from Hokkaido to Unterwilhem. With layer contraction it wouldn't be the most impossible thing so long as they thought they could keep the Tsardom from putting a stop to it (big assumption on their part).

Austria meanwhile I think definitely wants out of the Italian arrangement more than Germany, because they're bordering the rapacious Vulcanists and they've already had to make concessions. I could see them hoping to get access to the Istanbul pit that leads to the 4th as an alternative, although that is without question also one of the Tsardom's top priorities and I don't think either would agree to share it. Britain on the other hand might be willing to go half and half on the Bosphorus entrance as part of a wider Canal-protection scheme if Austria provides the land power while they handle the sea approach.

Of course, these are all 1884 negotiations and plans happening on the surface until the next colonial incident sparks a wave of saber rattling and diplomatic headaches. This month Germany fired on France on some island, next month Japan and Austria will touch something off, then it's the Italians and the Ottos again, so on and so forth goes the dance.

>>98893324
>Neat Entente vs Triple Alliance division serves this purpose well enough, riding the assertion and assumption train with no breaks until we condemn three of these factions to partition and/or civil war before the finish line seems questionable at best and I straight up don't see what do we even get out of it.
I can't speak for everyone else, but when I mention these planned partitions/civil wars or whatever I'm assuming that they the first stages of the Deluge conflict rather than something which knocks out the big players before the show.

Except Atlan who I legitimately do not see surviving as a real power past the death of the Titking, who would be at minimum in his early 80s by the 1910s if I've done my math right.
Then again, time works strangely on the 4th layer and there are many ways to cheat death across the underground. He may prove to be too angry and/or heavily armored to die.

>>98850625
Looking at this and The Kharaby Incident together gives one the idea that Old Mu runs this sort of scam fairly often:
>JOIN US AND GAIN OUR PROTECTION FOR THE SMALL PRICE OF BUT X SACRIFICES PER YEAR
>"Sure, that sounds great!"
>*Time passes*
>"Whoops, looks like we missed one"
>HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF COLLECTION WITH INTEREST?
>"...no?"
>SEND IN THE REVENANTS! CALL FORTH THE TALLYMEN! YOU ARE FORCLOSED!

To beings who don't experience time it could well seem like instantaneous gratification on their part. Like putting a treat on the nose of an untrained dog in a way. I can't help but wonder if all the cities and tribes of New Mu are beholden to such strict arrangements or if it only applies to those who earn what passes for ire in the alien minds of Old Mu.

>>98890335
I do like the idea of bringing the Warfex into the mix, if anyone has a clear, logical (at least from their philosophy) and unequivocal reason to want the Great War, its them. The angle could simply be that the occult sister-org of choice ends up leaking too much information about the Shape Of Things To Come (Bear McCreary's, not Audioslave's) and the Warfex realize their heaven is about to come down on Earth.
>>98893421
I guess that makes enough sense to me to be fine with it. But to answer >>98893324
That's unavoidable. We've got over 3 years of baggage, each one of us building a story from a setting that can only share so much, given 99% of it is done in our heads. My vision of the Great War comes from discussion here, live discussion with Kaiser & Atlan anon, and mostly, my own very slow-building headcannon.
Last version I had discussed had the onset of the Great War set in 1889, and would culminate into the Deluge after the ultimate breakdown of the 8 Nation Alliance, or had the Boxer War set a decade earlier, and its ultimate debacle would create the first big rift.
Now, I say this, but I'm not particularly attached to that version of things either, because for years we operated under the idea that the Great War was beyond the scope of the storyline (something I never really agreed with). I have had at least 3 alternative endings with wildly varying themes and tone playing around in my head for over a year, In one of which Epigea straight up beats back Hyperborea.
All of which is to say that its impossible for us not to argue at least in some part from our own headcannon, which will vary. Writing hypothetical statements is annoying to do over and over again. That something is shaped as an assertive statement, on its own, if there's no additional insistence that THIS IS WHAT IT WILL BE BECAUSE I WON"T UPLOAD ANYTHING SAYING OTHERWISE, which I don't do unless something is *really* crap or just in horrible taste, doesn't mean anything.

>>98896024
You've pre-empted my next sentiment. I actually wholeheartedly support an outcome where Epigea actually overcomes the Deluge. I appreciate the 'time is a flat circle' theme that we've had since some of the earliest writings, but having all of this lovely setting be flushed down the toilet of many layers is almost too nihilistic for my liking. Obviously a Deluge would compel incontrovertible and incomprehensible changes to Epigea, but the Great War OTL caused incontrovertible and incomprehensible changes to all societies involved, even without psyche-consuming entities descending from the sky.
I do think that 1889 for the kick-off is a bit too soon. 1908, to coincide with Tunguska, or 1914, as irl, would afford more room for writings and development.

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>>98896191 >>98896297

>>98893767
Considering Old Mu itself barely has to lift a finger in this entire transaction, they just get New Mu to do the work for them, yeah, this is basically free corpses for the Old Ones.
Quick return on investment too, given the Latrygonians failed within ~20 years of establishing themselves.
Although, honestly, the darkest power displayed by Mu here is the ability to rewrite History and change a man's name from Jacques to Pierre *after* he died. That's some malefaction at work right there.
>>98893583
>next month Japan and Austria will touch something off
Didn't you want Japan vs Mu? I'd be fine with playing Mu, it'll work, 100%. I don't want to give the impression Campaigns are purely for Colonial powers, Deep Nations and Others might not have a toolbox as developed, but they should be playable.
> picrel
Buildings for that campaign. Jap buildings are a bit dated, but will provide some aesthetic distinction between the two camps/colonies.
Some ideas
> Adding a Security [x] value to some Structures, similar to Shelter. Once a player has a total of Security (10) in a single zones, Hostiles stop spawning in it, not before. Criminals each forces a -1 to this, and if it goes below 0, you have to additionally roll on the Colonial Criminal list.
> Some Random Events could have an Attraction keyword to them, for each Attraction you have in a zone you have Structures in, roll a d10 and add that to Silver for Recruitment.
Any other suggestions, feedback?

>>98896158
You're replying to the wrong fellow. Japs v. Mu is still good for me. Maybe throw in a Shinto shrine if you want, for the local flavor.

>>98896191
Sorry about the confusion, I'll try to mention I'm not playing the match when pitching wayward ideas or forgetting who is slated to fight who.

>>98896024
For my small part, 1889 seems like it would work better as a second Paraguay incident, like a porthole first cracking, then fracturing, then finally breaking come 191X or 190X

Epigea having the potential to beat Hyperborea also makes sense to me, though I think even Napoleon in 1884 sees it as a long shot (because in his isolation he forgets to account for the unbreakable Spirit of Man!)

>>98896158
>They just get New Mu to do the work for them
The unknowable and timeless monstrosities having a good grasp of delegation might be one of the scarier aspects of Old Mu. For a faction without a tech advantage New Mu is absolutely carried by their logistical capacity (and crippled by their frequent lack thereof when it counts)

>Although, honestly, the darkest power displayed by Mu here is the ability to rewrite History and change a man's name from Jacques to Pierre *after* he died. That's some malefaction at work right there.
Tallymen never make mistakes. If it comes down to you or their ledger, it is you who must be wrong.

The security idea reminds me of B/X, and I do like domain mechanics like that. Attraction seems like a version of the structures that generate resources but instead they just generate silver, which makes sense I think so long as attraction structures have a generally lower profit than resource gathering ones.

>>98896065
>I do think that 1889 for the kick-off is a bit too soon. 1908, to coincide with Tunguska, or 1914, as irl, would afford more room for writings and development.
A lot of my argument against the classical alliances being used comes from assuming 1889 as the onset, so definitely, if we push it back, then shifting France's stance on German rapprochement, having some crisis on the Neptunium/Ayahuasca/Stone Snail Shell market, and throwing its view on Agarthan colonization *not* being a zero-sum game (much too alien, large & hostile to be explored by a single Power, no matter what) not only makes sense, but it'd be an inevitability, at some point.
>>98896065
>I actually wholeheartedly support an outcome where Epigea actually overcomes the Deluge
I was wondering about Eiffel's World and the various hypothetical purposes for it, and just thought it could be an attempt at building a Prophetic Engine powerful enough to work in real time and predict accurately through the Great War and into the Deluge. Unknown to everyone, Eiffel and Cunningham have been in super-secret cahoot since forever, trying to locate the missing piece of the completed World, something that would work as its own INNER SVN set at the very heart of it, which they figure is the Scion (as the 1/3-child of the INNER SVN, also, part of why Cunningham is so willing to throw redcoats down in Lemuria, hoping to catch any word of La Ombre's current position.)
They catch a break and get an opportunity to kidnap Nap's kid, possibly because L'Empereur was made aware of the new possibility of Epigea actually winning this round for once, and decided to sacrifice his own son for that chance. The completed World allow Colonials to figure out Hyperborea's landing areas, and to box them in Siberia, Northern Canada, Greenland.
Its pretty simplistic & rough, but I meant it to be more of an alternative, what-if setting to justify a large-scale game in the veins of >>98877716.

>>98896297
Misread attraction as a structure keyword rather than an event, disregard commentary on that one.

>>98896297
>>98896191
Don't worry too much about it, at least for now I'm trying to build this campaign in a way that either building a Colony or going for a more directed Econ route (like laying tracks, but also, mining or setting up Neptunium pumps) will work. I just have to run a few sims to get a good feeling of how many tracks/pumps/etc you can lay down a game, and balance the Silver output against that of just building Structures and exploring around. So, probably, focusing on tracks/resource extraction will allow you to explode quickly, but you'd have less time to upgrade your Shelter Structures in Shelter+Security structures, or Secure a zone completely, which would incur some set Silver % loss and bring about more Hostiles.
>>98896191
>Maybe throw in a Shinto shrine if you want, for the local flavor.
I have a lot of those, sure. Also, mosques if we ever get the Ottos to play in a Campaign.
> Local Constabulary : Shelter 1, Security 1 or 5 if you have more Law models than Criminal models in your Expedition? Maybe have Structures open up some Parley actions?
> Armory : Security (3), allow models Deployed on it to spend Silver to uprade/exchange weapons (the difference in Silver, not the whole new price, otherwise there's no advantage), roll d3 for each models deployed on it, on a 3 gain 1 Dynamite.
> Exchange Market : Allows you to sell extracted goods to a specific Power (so, you can multiply the Silver by the econ relation set as per the table of Econ Relations), but counts as 10 Criminals for the purpose of calculating Security.
Any more?
Probably should have a Train Station as well.

>>98896386
>Any more?
I really like the deployment roll mechanic. It's a great way to simulate what happened over the night phase without needing a overlarge full system for that.

Here's my pitch for one:
>Bar:
-5 Build Actions
-5x6 Mat (?)
-Count this building as 5(?) Criminals for the purpose of calculating Security

-Shelter(2)
-After deployment, roll D3 for each friendly model deployed on this structure. On a 3, add 1 free Alcohol to that model's profile (which it may consume immediately for free as per the regular rules)
-At the end of the game, Control of this Structure is worth 10 silver, or 15 silver if you have at least 1 worker contributing to its control

>COMMENTARY:
Each bar is worth 1 staffed police station, which I find amusing. Not used to doing building profiles so numbers might need tinkering with, because alcohol can be consumed immediately at the start of a turn I think it makes sense to give units the item even if its supposed to represent a night out drinking with the lads.

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>>98897461

Another one done.

>>98897336
Added to the wiki.

For the next one around Christmas does anyone have one they'd want to do as a thread project? Atlan and Mu stand out in terms of options.

>>98896024
>>98896301
Fair enough, but I don't really see how the 1889 cut off was ever viable, considering all the speculation about a hypothetical 90s edition or people explicitly namedropping 1900+ dates as the time shit hits the fan. At any rate, now it seems like most are in favor of setting it around there, so I assume the rough outline of Entente vs Triple Alliance also works?
>>98897461
Well, we did have some fruitful discussion on Atlan, so they have my vote if we do anything.

>>98897922
Around 1900+, I mean, just to clarify.

>>98897922
This is where you lose me. Everybody knows the general run-ups of the Great War OTL. Anglo-German naval tensions, the Agadir crisis, French revanchism, and the ethnic disintegration of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Culminating in the cascade of war declarations from a small conflict in the Balkans to the entirety of Europe coming to blows. I don't see the majority of these same or similar events happening in this setting. Lets go down the list, and I'll explain my perspective.

Franco-German Relations
Obviously OTL, we have the return of Elsass-Lothringen to the German Empire after victory in the Franco-Prussian war. Here, we not only don't have that conflict, but a apathetic kind of dynamic. The closest thing we have to a German incursion on that end is the purchase of Luxembourg, which didn't appear to have inspired much concern from the French. The elevator lease is practical for the Germans, as it gives them leave to achieve colonial ambitions in the third, and spurs to action Italy to provide a more equitable deal or additional incentives for German money and colonial efforts to access the 4th. France gets a nice train of goldmarks, but both powers hold their nose as a matter of Realpolitik. France's tune can change, and they can let the lease run and not renew it, sparking a humanitarian concern, or it may not even matter, as the 'Down Periscope'-type maneuvers that the German U-boat fleet is performing in the Icelandic Canal might have bridged the gap to supplying Wilhelmstadt or other 3rd layer colonies until they become self-sufficient. I don't see the Parisian elevator lease as much of a flashpoint as some others, it would seem.

>>98899742
Anglo-German Naval Tensions
This I could see being mirrored in the Agarthan timeline. However, I think it takes on a different character than OTL. With less emphasis on snapping up the remaining real estate in Epigea, and the geography of Mnemosynia and Pangea lending itself more to less 'global range operations', and more akin to the battle of the Giuk Gap. A cold war of developing more and more advanced ASW tactics until the spending exceeds the willingness of the population to maintain. Tirpitz's Flotteverein bills would have a hard time passing when Krupp is competing for steel and R&D funds for the mech program. I see the Generalstab as finally corralling the admiralty into the reasonable expectation of 'build up to 2/3 of British strength, and then sit on it, we have an army to motorize.'

>>98899742
Agadir Crisis-style Nonsense/Contests over Cameroon/Congo
Something along these lines could easily happen, just in the Agarthan context. I don't know how quickly the maps of the 3rd and the 4th could be filled up, or if we even want to fill them up, prior to kicking off the Great War. The reason for Africa being swallowed up and becoming a flashpoint for OTL is a mix of factors. The availability of cheap anti-malaria medication in the form of Dutch quinine, cheap, high-powered rifles and maxim guns, and most, if not all other real estate on the surface of the planet already being subject to colonial administration, with the exception of Ethiopia, Japan, and parts of western asia. I would keep this factor in the mix for our Great War, but we'd have to fill in the map a bit more to get a better idea.

>>98899742
Ethnic Disintegration of the Austrian Empire
The super-attenuated Austrian empire will not be able to overcome the ethnic tensions, in my mind. Not without taking some drastic reforms, perhaps even federalization, would you be able to solve the problems in their entirety. But they do have a release valve in their colonies. You serbs are getting uppity, and concerned about being boxed in by Hungarians and German-speakers, head on downstairs and form a little enclave of your own. Lots of viable land, an agricultural subsidy here and there, and you could cool tensions off long enough to buy time to figure out a long-term solution. Also, with the dead on the doorstep in the form of the Ottomans, having an outward threat there might act as a unifying force to keep Austria together, if just to act as a bulwark there.

>>98899742
All of this to say that, as things stand, I don't think the picture is clear enough to place every great power on a given side. And that's setting aside the fact that I haven't covered other ancillary factors that lead up to the Great War OTL, Russian industrialization and reform following the Russo-Japanese War, the abandonment of Bismarckian diplomacy by Germany, and innumerable others that might be worth touching on at some point.

As a personal touch, I wish someone would come in and give a touch-up to Italian and Ottoman material. They're critical players that I struggle to get a sensible handle on their perspectives and motives in this setting, and that makes 'setting the table' for the Great War all the more difficult.

98899742
>it may not even matter, as the 'Down Periscope'-type maneuvers that the German U-boat fleet is performing in the Icelandic Canal might have bridged the gap to supplying Wilhelmstadt or other 3rd layer colonies until they become self-sufficient.
Remind me please, they are doing it secretly? That alone is a massive Anglo-German crisis waiting to happen if discovered. At any rate, as you said it *might* have bridged it. It might have not. It's within the real of arbitrary authorial choices we can make deliberately to foster conflict.
There's also the factor of Doggerland which we seem to have settled on being under Denmark with tacit British support as a kind of neutral placeholder. That's a pretty obvious target for Germany should the Paris lease be jeopardized and might easily spiral.
>>98899791
>Not without taking some drastic reforms, perhaps even federalization, would you be able to solve the problems in their entirety
Which Max is likely to at least attempt? More likely than Franz Joseph, at any rate. And it didn't collapse on him either. Again, I just don't see how we benefit from entertaining their disintegration before the Deluge, assuming we plan to do anything with them game wise later in the timeline.

>>98899805
>As a personal touch, I wish someone would come in and give a touch-up to Italian and Ottoman material. They're critical players that I struggle to get a sensible handle on their perspectives and motives in this setting
Yeah well, the problem with Italy in particular is that people refuse to see them as anything but wacky crazy cultists, despite the fact that from their very first jak they were written as soulless opportunists and pragmatists, and a lot of effort went into grounding them somewhat in historical context. So some people seem to believe that they can't have normal Great Power ambitions, everything has to be volcano this, sacrifice that (and the supernatural aspect itself is left largely vague). We certainly need to expand on it, but really, when in doubt, you just have to ask yourself, what would Francophobic Italy under eternal reign of demonic Francesco Crispi do and I think you'll have your answer to most of your questions.

Anyway, as I see it, France and Italy are locked in as enemies. Between Savoy, the Pope and Italy not just competing with them in Agartha but enabling others, their clash is inevitable. The question that decides allegiance then becomes "Are we fine with France winning, losing Stromboli and letting them have monopoly on Agartha traffic in continental Europe?" For Germany and Austria the answer is likely "No." With Germany, at least, in the equation, the question becomes "Are we fine with Germany winning and becoming the continental hegemon?" For Tsardom and Britain the answer is likely "No." At the very least I see France-Tsardom and Germany-Italy as the main camps, with potential British and Austrian entries on respective sides and potential meme entry by Spain and Portugal as the final crusade against the Italians.

>>98900373
The canal infiltration was meant to be done secretly, yes. I suppose we could run with that as a flashpoint. The last time I offered material on Denmark/Doggerland, we nearly had the game fall apart, so I'll withhold any proffer on that being a possibility, but I see the through-line you've drawn.
I don't think that we have a large change in Austria until after the deluge, but the point I was making that inter-ethnic tensions resulting in the assassination of an Austrian royal/high figure (OTL) seems less likely in this world, and without that, you don't have Austria beating on Slavs in the Balkans that would invite Russian intervention.

I'm all for having the big punch-up, we just have to find different contributing events.

>>98899805
>As a personal touch, I wish someone would come in and give a touch-up to Italian and Ottoman material. They're critical players that I struggle to get a sensible handle on their perspectives and motives in this setting, and that makes 'setting the table' for the Great War all the more difficult.
The Italians have a lot to work with in-lore, its just scattered somewhat. From what I recall and can see it seems like the Tyrant wants to clamp down on the last Republican/Anti-Vulcanist sentiment from the Redshirts and their successors while the Vulcanist cult wants to expand to other volcanic regions. There's the Ethiopia invasion of course, but also that lore about them connecting with the UK somehow that I can't remember for Iceland.
Though since the foreign minister who arranged for all of this to happen with the volcanos has just been fired I think their goals as a whole are pretty divided as of 1884.

The Ottos meanwhile are less clear to me. From what I can tell they seem to want the Necro-Caliphate to go to all branches of Islam? Most of their time currently seems to be spent getting their hinterland in order since they have large borders without a friend on any side.

>>98900373
>Remind me please, they are doing it secretly? That alone is a massive Anglo-German crisis waiting to happen if discovered.
NTA, but Germany actually did something similar OTL where they shipped an expedition secretly on British lines to claim a part of Africa, which is hilarious on its own. But yes they absolutely would have to be doing it secretly (although Cunningham might know and be using it as future leverage, or not). Analytical Engines can predict a lot but they're bad with details and prone to malfunction so one saying that shipping rates through the canal are unexpectedly rising could be taken as a glitch rather than evidence of secret German shipping.

>>98900437
The foreign policy is not about volcanoes at all. Ethiopia was about the Axum entrance, all their other expansion routes correspond to mundane Italian ambitions: Libya, Albania etc.

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>>98900620 >>98903347 >>98906415

Btw here's my rough draft on Volcanism from 2 years ago that was largely ignored

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>>98900628 >>98903347 >>98906415

>>98900617

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>>98903347 >>98906415

>>98900620

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>>98900617
>>98900620
>>98900628
Letting you know that I've now seen and read this, but that I am too tired from work to give useful feedback today. Have an image.

>>98896297
>For my small part, 1889 seems like it would work better as a second Paraguay incident, like a porthole first cracking, then fracturing, then finally breaking come 191X or 190X
That could be the Boxer War, if we push it a bit earlier. Everything was going great until, at the Battle of Tientsin, the Chinese sacrified a few hundred Catholics by strapping them to a giant firework rocket and launched it at the Firmament, cracking it up and allowing Hyperboreans to send in a large Raid.
The Gaselee Expedition beginning to cut heads and mount them on spikes all over the place is framed as Emanation infection, and eventually its members loses enough sanity to open up on fellow allies?
It would have the nice effect of revealing Hyperborea as a treat to most relevant players, those that won't have prior knowledge or experience of it.
>>98896297
>though I think even Napoleon in 1884 sees it as a long shot
Agreed, my view is that Napoleon has had enough time and is in better position than any (except maybe 4~5 other individuals in the setting) to have a large enough picture to have multiple plans and contingencies for the Great War and the Deluge. The Loop theory states it pushes back Humanity toward the Depth, and perhaps Hyperborea must conquer all the way through all Layers before History starts again. A better Epigean defense frees him from having to worry about it and gives him more time to reach the INNER SVN and beyond. There's really no downside to it, even just character-wise it'll scratch his ego to do it.

>>98900617
>>98900620
>>98900628
My thoughts, in no particular order or format, are as follows:
-Them drawing on incorrect interpretations of earlier practice makes sense and is fitting
-Vulcan is probably better than Lucifer unless we want an explicitly satanist angle.
-For my own part, I would rather have diana/vulcan called something more abstract like The Darkness and The Fire or something like that. Giving them human(ish) names just doesn't work for me although I can't exactly articulate why.
-Having Vulcan be believed to be the INNR SVN also both makes sense to me and doesn't in a way I can't yet wrap my head around. I think this part works as-is though at least, so long as the Vulcanists aren't worshiping the INNR SVN but instead its sons/jailers/wranglers. Fearful reverence on the other hand makes perfect sense
-Pulling from Freemasonry is great
-Layers exist retroactively? I thought that instead each layer falls down piecemeal into the place of the ones below it over time (See how Paris/Hokkaido/Istanbul all fell down 1-2 layers as the cycle starts to turn in our own time)
-I like the building a new layer angle, especially since it can connect to the Piransi guys. It does reinforce the idea that the Vulcanists want to capture more volcanos though since I'd assume you need more than Stromboli to build a whole new layer
-Having the "Build a new layer to become the lords of it" be the public facing idea is interesting, but I think it would work better as a first-step initiation truth. The lore we've seen for the public/peasant face of Vulcanism in the past has been a sort of Bacchanal paganism and I would like that aspect to stay around at least a little. We could have it so once you join the cult officially you get initiated into the new layer lordship idea, and then the further up you go the more you learn about the Supreme Being
-Same note with Janus not being my favourite as a name compared to something more general like the Supreme Being or The Light

>>98906415
>Continued:
-The high-level philosopgy of the pursuit of power kind of overlaps with Lemuria, so emphasizing the truthseeking and attempted ascension to Volcano Spirit aspect I think would be good, especially in connection with the Freemason ideas

Let me know what you think

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>>98907004

I spent a lot of time today working on the Main Rule book, specifically the Structures, finishing some, reformating all and adding the newest ones, I see no reason to scatter them across books.
> "What do you mean I lost because you built a church and sat your Army Priest in it, what kind of wargame is this? ARG 2e ANON I HATE YOU"
But remember, Christ loves you.
For the Barricades I would like to explore picrel, you build them on 3 sides of a hex, and they only provide their bonus if the attack originates from over. I'd probably do something similar for Fortified Walls?

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>>98907032

>>98906964
If the Civ games can have cultural, economic, and religious victories I don't see why we can't.

Or was that Spore I'm thinking of?

Barricades being directional makes sense, but fortified walls also give you elevation so for them I'm not sure. Would you be able to also put a building on a hex with a barricade in this case? It could allow for custom-built forts in a tighter footprint.

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>>98907040

>>98907004
>Or was that Spore I'm thinking of?
I think you are right either way, although I have to admit I've never been good enough at Spores to get beyond the early civilization stage.
I see what you mean with Fortified Walls, if anything they should be more like tracks, maybe just 3 hex across.
>>98907004
>Would you be able to also put a building on a hex with a barricade in this case? It could allow for custom-built forts in a tighter footprint.
Yes! The new format for Structures will also make it clearer which ones you can build without occupying a whole hex as well, if they change the hex type, etc. (Picrel is still unfinished, I want to fix a few things with it already, and spreads across 3 pages in the rule book, but once I'm done, it'll be made into a template for the game on which each building's tokens will be placed, so, despite being a lot, it should be easy to use and parse through.)

>>98907032
When you say you're unscattering the buildings, does this include the Deep Folk Ones? I could see there being a medieval and colonial buildings list like with how there's a medieval and colonial weapons list