Is this game making a comeback?I used to play it a lot, but like most people dropped it in the eve of bloated points and increasingly massive miniatures.How is the game today? Is it good? Balanced? What do you think?
I feel conflicted about the Menoth announcement. On one hand, the 'jacks look great. On the other, the infantry look the same as the ones I already own, and Feora continues to be meh.
Man, I remember way back when the Warhammer/Warmachine flame wars helped get /tg/ started. What a fall they've had.
>>98785085If for some unholy reason my lgs only played warmachine I'd play Lylyth Everblight. Since that isn't the case, no. Nobody plays the dead game.
>>98785085They seem to be getting back up but I doubt they will return to previous heights, but I believe they will live in a niche of smaller wargames living in 40K's shadow
>>98785085>Is this game making a comeback?Not in any meaningful way, and not outside NA.
>>98785842This. Its never reach the peak unless something really weird happens that fucks 40k over hard. Like, GW closing overnight for some reason hard. But its getting a decent following that shows its not dead.>>98785202I feel its a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation, where people would be pissed if the new Menoth was too different than the old stuff. Except if it was dino Menoth, but SFG seems to really hate that idea.
>>98786691>but SFG seems to really hate that ideaLook, I have my fair share of criticisms towards MK4 warjacks that PP proper made, especially Dusk ones, but that just sounds like the coolest shit ever
>>98785085FUCKING REAL KHADOR WHEN All they got was the shitty Cygnar knock off winter guard and the riot quest abominations they tried to pass off as man o wars, then circle orobos that was barely related to khador, and nothing since then. Are they seriously avoiding them because of the Russian war? I don't even want them to touch Skorne honestly, knowing today's society they'd whitewash out all the slavery, torture, and cruelty, but at least stop fucking erasing Khador.
>>98787716They are probably thinking on how to add more classic Khador stuff because main army is already addedHonestly I really like their new warjacks, they lack the erroneous amount of glowy bits others had, infantry though...new Iron Fangs are the worst offenders in my opinion
>>98787716Khador is rightful Orgoth clay
>>98785085Mk4 seems to be awfully simplified compared to prior editions. They've done away with some stats, and from what I can see fury/focus seems to be one though I may be wrong. I'm also not a fan of the new Cryx models, and the lack of Satyxis, Black Ogrun, or other pirates. But we shall see if this situation improves.For now, a friend and myself are digging out our old armies to play mk2/3.
>>98788633Focus/Fury hasn't changed. The only real rules changes in 4th is unit movement, change to Free Strikes, and the removal of template attacks. Everything else has been minor, like the removal of STR hasn't affected the game much, since STR really only been used for power attacks since 2nd ed., and the change to power attacks being a flat POW 12, unless you're bigger, then its 14, has been a boost for most things.
>>98788633The next army getting released is Dread Armada, which is the pirate part of Cryx, so Satyxis is coming back.
>>98792119I'm hesitant about templates being gone but other than that, if strength us removed how do you power attack?>>98794420Sweet, I will be cautiously optimistic. I missed out on Satyxis gunslingers for all of the 0.9 microseconds they were available over here, and blood witches are now unobtainium, so a new supply would be good. I just hope they don't mess the minis up.
>>98787716Drago evolving to become a warbeast was peak and I really love how the MKIV model looks
Does anyone know where can I pick up the full MK4 books or is it all now relegated to that damn shitty warmachine app
>>98794673I know Steamforged has a free PDF for the core book on their website (or at least they used to) but you gotta sign up to download it.
>>98794660Because of the change to units, templates really had to go. They would be too powerful. Since all models are within 2" of a central model, the old 4" would hit an entire unit on a direct hit.Power attacks damage is just a straight up POW 12, unless the model you are hitting has a smaller base size, then it's POW 14.
>>98794673>>98794842They do sell a physical book for the rules:https://warmachine.gg/products/warmachine-core-book
>>98796105So how do spray and aoe attacks work now? I'm not going to lie, it does feel like change and simplification for simplifications sake
>>98796793Blast attacks have an AOE stat and 2 POWs, no more halving the POW. If the attack misses, the targeted model takes a hit at the blast POW, which is usually the lower POW. If it hits, they take the full POW hit, and the X closest models within X" take a blast hit, ignoring LoS. So an attack with AOE 2 hits, the closest 2 models within 2" are hit. The counterplay is that placement is still a big deal, since it doesn't matter if the closest models are in the same unit or not. If you place your models wrong, they can snipe out your support.Sprays are pretty mush the same, you just use the line you measure as your template, instead of a separate template. So if you are using a 8" spray attack, you measure out 8" on your ruler, center it on the target, and hit everything the line crosses from your attacking model.
I wish they didn't streamline the gameplay; I get it why they did but still. I know it's hard to track everything when there's like double digit shit happening and interacting with each other all at once, but I always wanted to have some more shenanigans with power attacks and such. Loved the weapon/arm locks and free strikes. Wish you could go a step further and throw melee weapons at targets to get an open arm, snatch weapons from opponents, or even rip their arms out of sockets (and then maybe even beat them up with them lol). Cankerworm was great.
>>98800341For me it's just the shrinking of infantry units and the new movement rules, it's just straight up actually discouraging and makes me not want to play anything but jack focused because seeing what they did to my mechanithralls and man o wars is just sad
>>98794420>>98794660https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx_Fhoy2h1k
>>98802267Its very interesting that its not just a reprint of the old Black Fleet stuff, like how the other FronTier stuff has been with the old armies, but a MK4 army. I guess they are trying to see if they can find a way to ease production on their end, but increase output of product.
>CYBOOOAAARGGSSSzamn
>>98785085I have an itch to rebuild my Cryx army from the mk2-3 days, but I have trepidations. My old force was a Bane-heavy Venethrax assault fist that got right up in your face while a brace of Pistol Wraiths went caster hunting from the flanks, I don't think it's replicatible in mk4.My other concern is lore-driven. After the time jump, I know Cryx and Orgoth are allied, but I think the Orgoth are up to some shit. They were awfully nice in killing Blightergast and handing over most of his athanc to Toruk, but I heard they kept a piece. Orgoth bind beasts into servitude as their version of cortexes; what if they kept that piece of athanc to use as a link to Toruk in order to bind HIM into a super 'jack under their thrall in a future ritual? Red flag rising.
>>98800341I think the game got too deadly for things like arm locks and throwing to be good gameplay mechanics. I really like the idea of robots going at it like wrestlers and grappling and throwing each other around, but long before mk4 it was better to just do regular attacks and straight up kill your opponent. For power attacks to be a real thing, you'd have to severely limit the killing power and anti-control tools in the game. Steady is absurdly common, shaking is a thing and even busted up jacks are very easy to repair for any faction that cares about it. Right now, every time I think about throwing, slamming or headbutting, I come to the conclusion that just doing my 2-3 regular initials is more valuable because even if I do succeed, the enemy can just shake and I'm not surviving the counterpunch because my opponent won't waste time on throwing.
>>98785085>Warmachine slinking out the shadows to shill againSo what kickstarter has Mark just announced to avoid chapter 11 this time?
>>98802584https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBcz1aAinN4
>>98804507this has been true since Mk1
>>98804435Except for Venethrax, the Dark Host is Prime list that is Bane heavy and has Pistol Wraiths in it. You can also just play legacy Cryx in casual play, everything has rules from 3rd to 4th.
>>98806990Good to know. I got good mileage out of that list in locals back then, and Venethrax is my favorite Lich Lord. I'd love to test it in the new meta.
>>98802267I'm interested but the Satyxis Stormwitch does look a bit like a generic fantasy superhero kind of model you get all over these days. Hopefully though we will see the old units return, I don't care about new shiny I just want bloodwitches and gunslingers to round out my collection.>>98797190I'm not going to lie, this sounds dumb. Why not just stick with templates which were easier and made much more sense?
>>98806871Wait wait wait. Tell me I did NOT see make Satyxis models there, because I am damn sure I saw two male raiders and a male gunslinger. The creators do know the lore right? That Satyxis are all female and have to raid human settlements for men, all relating back to the Dragonblood that rained on them causing the men to wither and the women to change? That lore, that's been key since practically when setting was a dnd module?>>98800341>>98800767I saw the Cryx starter and couldn't understand why there were only 3 mechanithralls in it until I looked in further and realised that that's an average unit size now. That, the dumbing down of the rules, and the aesthetic changes done to the line are firmly locking me into mk2 and 3. I might buy some of the new minis if they can stand in for a unit I need, but only if they don't break the lore - eg no male Satyxis.Also, where are the Bloodwitches? The generic raider captains?
>>98810401>>98810503https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd7cp5-4ZE0
>>98811679Rather than replying with a link to a yt video completely unrelated to my post, could you instead formulate an answer, to whit:>where are the missing Satyxis units?>are we going to get bloodwitches back, they were a unit of their own and hags were a ua>where are the generic raider captains>for that matter what about Severa Blacktide and Axiara Wraithblade?>why are there male Satyxis models when the lore specifically states that no viable male babies are ever born to a Satyxis mother and that they have to raid to acquire human men to keep the population going, something that has been canon since the dnd module eraOr are you just a shillbot?
>>98812480I'm feeding you Cryx info as it comes. If this is your gratitude, do your own investigating. Cunt.
>>98812509It's considered bad form to sign your posts here.
>>98804131FUCK YOU GRIMBOAR
>>98812480>>98812557Some people really make the attitude era advertising their entire personality lmao
>>98785085i want to like it but im pretty sure the hyper competitive community around this game has ruined it for me.
>>98812571kek
>>98804435Orgoth did use the chunk they stole, its what's powering their character jack, Azdharak. Who is a fun jack, since he gets to trample everyone with POW 18's.
>>98812480The answer to all the questions except the last one is that this is a new army, not a reprint of the MK3 Black Fleet. It represents the fleet 15 years into the future.As for the last one, no clue. Maybe eating Blighterghast changed Turok's blight? I haven't read the Requiem RPG books, and they haven't uploaded fluff on the Dread Fleet to the app yet.
>>98813091I just wonder if their tampering with the athanc Toruk is busy digesting has given them a way through his defenses. Once he's done absorbing Blighterghast, Toruk will be the most powerful creature on Immoren, stronger than he's ever been since the splitting. Quite the soul snack for the Felgoth Infernals.
>>98812571
>>98812509Sorry mate, I'm too used to modern /tg/'s constantly shill feed. I take back what I said.>>98814208You would still expect to see the character girls around, though maybe they died. Blood witches and captains definitely should be around though.Them having make Satyxis still makes no sense though, it's undoing millennia of established culture and mutation. If anything, eating Blighterghast would have seen their blighted mutation become even more extreme.>>98814311Please no, do not kill off/enslave Lord Toruk. He's cool and without him the heart of Cryx is gone.
>>98814369No worries, I just lack the answers right now. From their livestreams, the current plan for Cryx is to go hard on the naval aspect, which I was never big into. My Cryx was the Thornwood regular army flavor, but Gaspy fucked that up so it's moot even if the Cephalyx are still around. I get the Dread Armada push being important, I just don't care about pirates. I long for variable Cryx flexibility again, not the single-minded theme to define the faction being only raiders.
>>98785085Let's get to the point : is this game dead ? If yes, why ?
>>98814443No, and Steamforged seems to be very aware of Privateer Press's fuckups and is keen to not repeat them.
>>98814552Tbf, a company like SFG stumbles often enough on their Own merits, so I can see why they'd try to be more cautious with handling a literal salvage op like the Iron Kingdoms.>I say this literally as Male Satyxis are revealed, which is a purely Steamforge Stumble.
>>98814416Mine was similar with a mass of steam powered zombies, which I always thought was cool, backed by pistol wraiths and a bloat thrall and a number of bonejacks because gods I love the turkeyjack, with Satyxis raiders as support. I always liked the idea of them using Immorens waterways to launch sneak assaults in support of the main armies thrusts.If the rumours that SF is planning to do away with Lord Toruk are true then the Cryx will probably be reduced to a scattering of lichelords raiding each other and the mainland, which would suck balls and completely rip the heart out of the Cryx as a faction.
>>98814311It seems that Everblight is the only one so far has been able to split Anthancs while still maintaining a connection. The only other time, other than Turok's original splitting, we know an Anthanc was split was when the giants tried to destroy one, and it ended up spawning two new dragons.We also don't really know how Anthancs can interact with the realms outside of Caen. As far as we know, it could be too bound to the physical realm for Infernals to use.>>98814369Bloodwitches and generic captains were most likely just cut because they only had so much room to fit everything in the army.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-GbwtC2rgU
>>98816922I wonder if we'll get updated Bloodgorgers. They did tease the Kraken.
>>98814552Of the 4 stores that used to carry it, one decided to restock it. As far as I can tell its not selling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgE2hCUHcgg
Yes, in my small village it has the popularity of a runaway freight train.
>>98814369Weren't all male satyx simply thrown into a cauldron as infants as ritual sacrifice or something or am I misremembering?
I know they mentioned stuff about the male satyxis in the reveal stream, but iirc it basically boiled down to "we can rewrite the fluff however we like, there's been a timeskip and shit changed" and now they can do male satyxis models. I don't like it at all, but I hope it'll be avoidable to have the dudes, especially since I already have a bunch of raiders.
>>98823157Ritual sacrificed or abandoned, yes. Pretty much Amazonian women shit.
>>98825314Well, since the Dread Armada is being sold as STLs, not as printed models, you can always just not print the male sculpts.
>>98826455Source? Seems odd for Steamforged to make a turn like that for a mainstream army when every other army can be bought already printed from their website.
>>98827861>Seems odd for Steamforged to make a turn like thatThey're financially fucked, they need to figure out how to dump a bunch of costs and scam as hard as possible in as short an amount of time as possible. Its going to get ugly.
>>98827861https://www.myminifactory.com/frontier/cryx-dread-armada-5654
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYzcdZXt5CY
>>98825314Not gonna lie, most of the mk4 lore and redesign was kinda shit, just dropped the game over this weirdness
>>98825314I found out the true reason for the male Satyxis.They released a 5e dnd warmachine splat. Clearly they decided that Satyxis need to be standins for tieflings and that meant they needed a male option too so they could accommodate all flavours of theater kid, danger hair, and loonytroon.https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/509419/iron-kingdoms-requiem-the-roleplaying-game
>>98814416>which I was never big intoThe Necrofactorum robo-zombies end of Cryx actually came out already, last year.The way Mk4 has been handled is that each faction basically gets walled off theme armies, and Black Fleet is the second one for Cryx. If you want the bandage cyborg Frankenstein bits, they are already available.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrvTBTejc20
>>98832071All well and good, but I'm still after Banes, Wraiths, Thralls, and soldier 'jacks that aren't Deathjack. Stuff Necrosurgeons aren't making.
>>98828048These guys seem to be more fucked than CMON or Mythic. I guess Warmachine is somehow the one thing making them money, which is weird as I thought board games were more profitable.
>>98836950All the shit that been happening since the Covid lockdown has really fucked with production lines from China for the smaller companies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fapgn9okbEo
>>98836950as per SOP, the current kickstarter pays for the previous one's production.
>>98837078Getting fucked over by chinese shipping and manufacturing because of muh covid stopped being a plausible cover for making shithead plans and ripping people off years ago. There are known problems but companies pretending there aren't and then crying >its their fault not ours! are total bullshit at this point.
>>98840404There's been more than just the back-up Covid caused that's happened since then, such as the US tariffs and the ongoing effects of Brexit, that have eaten into the profitability of the board game Kickscam.
What rules have changed from MK2 to MK4?
>>98841862Facing is gone. Power attacks were simplified. Units are now a fixed size and universally smaller. Attack math is simplified.
>>98841862The big ones>Focus no longer passively adds to armor, its now spend a Focus to get +5 armor on the damage roll (I don't actually remember is this was a MK2 or MK3 change, its been so long)>Warjacks now Power Up, which means they get a free Focus if they start the turn in their controller's control area>WJ points are gone>Unit sizes shrank in half>The lesser used power attacks, like arm locks, are gone>STR is gone, its just been rolled into the POW of the weapon, and power attacks use a base POW 12>Unit movement is you move a model in the unit, and everyone else telephones to within 2", if they can't, they die>In the newer armies, warjacks/beasts are a base chassis and you choose the load out for them>Template attacks are gone, they use a simplified system for them>There's now command cards, which you spend for once a game effects>LoS arcs are goneThere's probably more I'm missing.
>>98841628Yeah, meanwhile in the real world when you're doing manufacturing, ordering and shipping everyone knows blaming covid or whatever international crisis is >we fucked up ordering, probably haven't done it yet so we'll say this and order it now. maybe. You have to be incredibly bad at project management to fuck up that hard that many times at this point. Which if that's the case they shouldn't be doing this anyway.
>>98843492I believe PP used that line during the time right after lockdown, but that was to cover up the actual reason, with the Chinese manufacturers stealing the molds and shit. I have no idea what SFG's line is for KS delays, I just know a lot of board game companies have only bounced back within the last 2 or 3 years. That, and people are just done with KS, so those companies propping themselves up on it have fallen.
>>98843523There's an entire hour long documentary on the amount of shit PP did wrong, lied about and covered up. >tl:dr they might not have even just llost the molds to the chinese, they might have straight up forgot masters in storage and lost custody of them in north america because they're that fucking retarded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4u-pNLcNmw
>>98842062>>98842053>>98842062>>98842053I like all of these changes. I see Hordes is now just integrated and I liked that part of the game more but only trollbloods seem to be around. What are the two armies that can be run Beast Heavy?
>>98845466Everything still has rules, so if you still have a bunch of old models you can probably build an army with it.That said, Fury/Warbeasts are still around. Old Umbrey is basically Cicrcle by way of Khador, with werewolves and such with more Russian hats.Khymaera is bascially the replacement of Legion of Everblight because of storyline reasons. They are more cyberpunk looking because Saeryn escaped Everblight's control and stole a bunch of Cyrisstech.Face of Nyrro is Vampire Elves with giant bat monsters after Retribution of Scyrah blew up the elf gods and turned themselves undead (oops)Reaper Covenent is an as yet upcoming Orgoth beast army that's going to like bone golem and such. It's currently limited to an all named character plastic starter.
>>98845551So the warlock armies are much fewer than warcaster armies. I really prefer playing more focused on the battlegroup. I used to play the shit out of Amon and Kromac back in the day, so I think those kinds of armies\lists don't exist anymore. Or am I mistaken?
>>98806889Right, and it got worse with every edition. Especially since knockdown used to mean something before every faction got a way mitigate it at no real cost. On inverse, at least beasts and warjacks got better too.
>>98846850Control group casters are still around. Honestly, running jack/beast heavy is pretty easy in MK4, since except for Fane, all the new armies have a choir/paingivers level support unit in some way.Funny enough, despite not having one, Fane also can run beasts at near allowance, since how their beasts are designed is different and they have a caster that's a Kharchev style group caster.
>>98785085>Warmachine running a Cryx campaign on myminifactory.Alright is it worth it? Does SteamForged Games re-release stuff that was from the monthly tribes? I feel like my wallet is gonna hurt, but I don't know if the STLs are truly printer friendly. I would love for a piracy app link to download the Warmachine STLs, please.Preferably with the answers in /3dpg/ encryption format.
>>98847179If you want it, then yes. They will eventually sell them as prints on their site, or as STLs in piecemeal on MMF, so the tribe thing is just a heavily discounted all-in-one package of the STLs.
>>98847206>so the tribe thing is just a heavily discounted all-in-one package of the STLs.Thanks!This means that the tribes models all get a public release eventually right?I take it that the "important models" that Steamforge games sells that will be bought multiple times and special character models are website only and never digital? Kind of like how Mantic makes some characters (usually in resin) in digital STL format but "chaff units" always in plastic and usually never in STL form?
>>98847218Until this campaign, its been MMF was for selling STLs of the older stuff, while the MK4 stuff is on their website. This may be an experiment to see how they can ease their production line stress, since they've had issues with keeping up with new releases. Everything you need for the Dread Armada is in there, save things like mercs.
>>98847256Alright I'll think about it then. Probably not as money is a bit tight, but they are STLs.I will say that one big thing I don't like about Warmachine are the round lipped bases they use. I think the standard bases with the straight bevels are easier to grip. I feel that even hands that aren't greasy will have some difficulty picking up the warmachine bases. Maybe the bases are designed that way to protect the terrain?
>>98847289They were designed this way due to GW patent on bases back in the day.
>>98847296Oh I see now. I bought a load of bases in the "GW style" that I guess became standard basing style from a Chinese Aliexpress vendor. Loads of them. I'm set for life.But oddly enough I'm wondering if "unbeveled" bases where the edges aren't angled would be better or not.
>>98847160Thanks you seem to know a lot. If most armies can I guess the nuances are what makes a big difference in how the armies play. I'm still trying to figure out the new armies but do you know what the Three Crown Alliance. That was not around when I was playing during MK2
>>98847317No one is exactly sure on Three Crown Alliance, but people are speculating is related to Ord and Llael's partnership.
>>98847317They are the Cruciple Guard, which came out in MK3. They are an order of alchemists from Llael and Ord. A lot of their troops have resistance and immunity to elemental effects and clouds, while having variable ammo of various alchemical cocktails. They also experiment with Venom, the stuff that makes Bane super-strong in Batman.The Three Crowns faction is new, and it hints to us seeing more from Ord and Llael.
>>98847354I may look deeper into them as they seem interesting. Thanks
>>98785085If they can manage to kill a few 40k youtubers and publicly display their corpses as a marketing stunt, maybe.
Maybe? I mean for a second during MK2 they were basically on the cusp of becoming 40k's direct competition (which would've been good), but then PP shat the bed and warmachine fell of the knife's edge it had been teetering on. Now GW is so utterly dominant due to their explosive growth that I'm not really sure if it's possible for them to have any direct competition anymore, kind of like D&D and ttrpgs
>>98831244There is literally none of the beast armies I ran in MK4 modern and its a pain in the ass at that point.I know Skorn sucked and they had so many problems balancing them but I still used them anyways.
>>98850218But you can still play them. They are just legacy models.
>>98850468
>>98850473I know they exist in Legacy, but given how many systems I've dealt with where Legacy models tend to be given the shit treatment how well do they fare?
>>98850218PP had never figured out what they wanted to do with Skorne.
>>98850748Skorne are one of the best legacy armies and still performs well in tournaments (both versions consistently place high), with Exalted being a more popular of the two even after getting nerfed hard. The only other legacy army I can think of that performs really well are the Shadows of the Retribution, that said you see gimmick stuff like gator suicide bomb and khador human wave tactic sometimes take tournaments by surprise for one off sweep. Others like the Rhul used to be pretty decent, but a blanket nerf to all armies across the board really hit them hard where I don't think they recovered. Legacy in general is still good, they only really started slowly fall behind once SFG original factions came out (OU and everything after) and massive blanket nerf to all PP factions came (including the Mk4 ones) that """somehow""" mostly dodged Old Umbrey despite them being WAY stronger than everyone else.
>>98851218They were too new to get hit by the yearly balance patch. I feel same thing will happen with Menoth and possibly the Dread Armada with the next one.
Bump
Anyone here know about Khymaera? I am thinking of picking up the Auxiliary Expansion to play Nyxyan. She is a spell sling assassin and want to try her is 50 point games. However, outside the Wyvern how do you build a list with Nyxyan?
>>98856158She's probably the oddest caster in that she's got so many things that she wants to fulfill conditions. You'll want a Vypex or two with Aspis heads along with Pythia. She's a pure caster and having something to channel spells through with her low control 14 means she REALLY doesn't want anything near her.After that is pretty much whatever you want her to fulfill your conditions for her for. You start with a Vypex or two, Pythia, then move onto adding Quick Fang Stalkers or other decent units.
>>98856260This is what I came up with. What do you think?
>>98832071>The way Mk4 has been handled is that each faction basically gets walled off theme armiesso it's still theme list BS.back to sleep until next edition I guess.
>>98785085Hopefully it won't be as shit and overpriced as 3rd
>>98861373What, you like having a full range of models available just to take 4 copies of the same unit anyway?>>98861387I just bought into Khymaera and got 2 battlegroup boxes, command starter and core expansion this week all new in box for $225
>>98861532Correction, add a Spinner and Bellighul. This gives me 3 very different Warlock, and 121 points of models, with 6 Warbeasts.
>>98861373Freeform factions are gone. The developers have figured out that faction bloat kills the game.
>>98785085Anybody got the cryx files? I want to get into WarmaHordes. I just know that it will be tough to find players near me so I don't want to invest too much and do nothing with my investment.
>>98861618Theme-trapping is a lame way to approach a glorified skirmish game.
>>98862558Yet it seems to be the best way of keeping it alive. GW seems to have discovered it for their Kill Teams and former skirmish model games like malifaux keep alive with it.
>>98785085Can I get a QRD on each of the armies and which ones have the best and most waifus (be they named chars or generic infantry/heroes/monsters/whatever)
>>98785085i'll come back when shit like clocks, flat terrain, soccer field scoring zones and proxy bases are no longer in the game. shit ruined the game
>>98864083This is somehow worse than the unpainted L shaped Warhammer terrain.
>>98862775Dread Armada has the most waifus, its filled with pirate ladies with huge racks (of horns). They are a swarm army that relies on debuffing enemies and magical vortices to create buffed areas for the army.
>>98794668That flaming cat skull is fucking retarded.
>>98810503>Wait wait wait. Tell me I did NOT see make Satyxis models there, because I am damn sure I saw two male raiders and a male gunslinger. The creators do know the lore right?You do know that SFG are genuinely massive woke faggots right?
>>98864083Well they are not in the game, but you'll keep spamming this in every thread anyway.
>>98861387I went back to the old warmachine university archive and looked at some of the old info. I forgot how fucking steep the buy into this game used to be.A Zaal 25 point list for brawl machine had an msrp of $235. Holy shit that is expensive. The new Menoth Scourge box is $170 and you get a full 50 point army
>>98868090Part of the reason why the local games club stuck to 2nd back in the day.
Is this more expensive than Warhammer?
>>98871774It's about the same.
Which army is easiest to paint?
>>98866171not technically in the game but on every table. its a problem with the community at large and it will continue to be until PP/SFG actually ban them mechanically and put their foot down
>>98840404Past couple of years it's been Trump's shitty tariffs going in and out of place so they literally can't figure out what the import fees are gonna be six months ahead of time. Flying Frog started slow rolling their last Shadows of Brimstone kickstarter and only releasing new siocast models for the game on their webstore because of it.
I refuse to buy 3d printed minis for more than plastic prices. Dead game.
>>98872314Convergence. Everything is metal robots.
>>98871774On a model by model basis, slightly cheaper. By full army basis, much cheaper.
>>98872959You realise in the UK for an event to be a steamroller (official sponsored) it needs 3d terrain? Go back to the shadows cuck.
Several of the bigger streamed tournaments have used 3d terrain that they end up pulling away when they needed to, revealing flat templates. By the end of a game, the battlefields end up looking like that image...
>>98785519Real
I am kind of on the fence as to what army I want. It is between Winter Korps, Crucible Guard and Sea Raiders. I love the aesthetic of the Winter Korps and Crucible Guard as it looks more like the older Warmachine armies but Sea Raiders look like a gnarly mix of machine and monster. Anyone have insight on how these armies play on the table?
>>98880882So Crucible Guard has a lot of troops that have Alchemical Masks that give immunity to gass effects and allow them to ignore clouds for LoS, and resistance to fire and corrosion damage. They are not the hardest hitting, but most of their support elements are flexible with various ammo types to apply debuffs to enemies. Their jacks are on the cheap end.Winter Korps is an infantry army. You'll take a jack or two, and back it up with either their elite troops in shock troops or Man-O Wars, or take their Korps infantry which come with firepower above their point cost.Sea Raiders are a slippery army that wants to get in and brawl. They don't look fast at first, but most units have some extra rule that helps them get in closer. They have a history of half their casters being too powerful, while the other half being underpowered. The Cursebound, their cadre, is straight up "throw them into the enemy", so you can play them as such.Something to note, we have no timeframe of when, but SFG has mentioned they wish to return to some armies, like the WK and SR, to give them a make over similar to how they have been designing the latest armies.
>>98882433The refresh sounds cool but it looks like Winter Korps are gone as I want to play more Warjacks a lot of the time and not have an infantry based army
>>98882859Both CG and SR are pretty average when it comes to jacks, so they won't be flooding the field with them, but they can take a few comfortably. Orgoth also has the benefit of the Ravener, which is pretty self-reliant, since the army's jack support can't target it due to Spell Ward.
>>98883531Than what is a Jack heavy army?
>>98883584Convergence is good at running jack heavy, since they have a special rule where jacks can pass spend Focus onto another jack. Fury armies are also usually able to run multiple beasts, since how they work requires them.A lot of armies have at least one jack/beast caster. The best way to tell is looking at their spell list and feat for anything that affects the battlegroup.They usually have a way to get around the limitations of Focus/Fury manipulation. For example, at first glance, the Fane lock Nymara doesn't look like a beast caster, with her low Fury and Control stats, but her entire kit is about getting around these limitations and supporting her battlegroup.
>>98873415>>98884100>ConvergenceAre they even still a thing?
>>98884766Yeah, got fragmented and went underground because it turns out they DID act on their plan too early
>>98884766>>98884773Rumor has it the Emberflame Shard is going to be a Focus based army with Vectors to reflect the lore of Saeryn getting Convergenced by the portal
>>98884766Latest Locke Mini Crate sculpt makes reference to the fact that she's still working for the cult while working in Crucible Guard.
I just looked at this cryx crowdfunding thing because MMF was spamming my emails and holy shit what the fuck did they do to satyxis?
>>98890959They took away Skarre's Great Rack years ago.
>>98890758I fucking hate how they keep everything exclusive. So many cool minis that most people will never see or have. >>98890959It's (Current Year). Thank god I still have my old metals.
>>98884773>>98890491Nobody cares about the lore, I was asking if the Art-Deco clockwork robot faction was still playable under current edition.
>>98894362Have fun printing it.
Right now WM has a golden opportunity to take a big slice of market for themselves, especially for the next year or so. One certain competitor is treading on a slippery slope for a while. Hopefully they manage to do that.
>>98894653>dog shit app you need to pay for to have more than four lists>once a year balance led by echochamber WAAC fags in conjunction with Perkins playing in WTC every year>increasingly elaborate new faction rules that ignore existing rules>3D printed dogshit only>buffs and debuffs you can't counter because lol its not a spell effectYeah good luck with that.
>>98894362>Nobody cares about the loreI do, it’s neat
>>98894702I only jumped back into 4e for a bit because I thought SFG had other stuff it was selling so it wouldn't be pressured to have Warmachine carry all the load.Then I found out that was basically a con, and their veneer of competence over a nearly failing buisness.I was ready for power creep, but the game design is just terrible in terms of waste.>Old mechanics half-abandoned>Newer set of releases basically a whole new game in terms of design ethos.>Increasingly wider gap of haves & have nots.>Exponential complexity creep.I decided to just use my old stuff with OSR and Osprey games.
>>98895046>double fucked buying the Ret stuff and Crucible Guard stuff they released at the end of MK3 where they were packing 5 man medium units in the clam packs they pack single infantry minis into>They changed hands to SFG I was cautious because I got fucked on Dark Souls. >It took them years to give legacy stuff rules>it was all hodgepodge hit or miss dogshit>finally waited long enough for "Crucible Guard return to Prime">half way decent rules>completely changed them again after 3 months during January update>dur we dont like sprays being so long ranged no we will not stop snipe from working on sprays>every new faction since has had some bullshit way of completely ignoring my buffs while being immune to my debuffsI gave up. I stuck it out from MK2 all the way to this year. No more. SFG can fucking neck themselves
>>98895096>I gave up. I stuck it out from MK2 all the way to this year. No more. SFG can fucking neck themselvesBasically.Lastly community wise:>The community is still "No items, fox only, final destination">They moved away from flat template terrain, but begrudgingly only.>Terrain is still a scatter of unrelated junk.I have never been one of those guys who wanted Warmachine to be this competitive TCG-like experience, but under SFG they have doubled down on that.
>>98895313>I have never been one of those guys who wanted Warmachine to be this competitive TCG-like experience, but under SFG they have doubled down on that.SFG started out as ex MK2 players throwing a shit fit MK3 wasn't hardcore enough so they fucked off to make Guild Ball. The irony is Privateer ate shit from mismanagement enough for SFG to come in and take over after having killed Guild Ball for being too hardcore. Now we're back to the same bullshit.
>>98895421If you find a community nearby, try One Page Rules. Im not experienced with 40K and have told its based off of it, but in terms of satisfaction, I used it to run my old Khador stuff and it was very satisfying.No it didn't have the complex and satisfying interaction of Focus, but in terms of "I have my Juggernaut Blow up that castle" it was very satisfying. Using the custom rules builder I was able to recreate stuff like Wreck markers.The core rules are very simple, but you can touch it up with the optional rules.
>>98894379>completely technical faction, barely any organics in sight>art deco styling based on highly geometric shapes lends itself nicely to CAD, meaning I can easily convert them even before printing>don't have to fuck around with shitty PP metal casting or restic>can easily duplicate minisYou say that like there's any drawback.
>>98890963What?
>>98895740Nta but Skarre was famous fir having a great rack
>>98895776She still does.
>>98896387That used to be what her Horns were named as her melee weapons. Then the Priavteer Staff hired Women and Troons
>>98896634Can anyone who speaks schizo translate?
>>98896746Old version of Skarre (2016) explicitly listed her rack with its own attack profile (fact).Latest version of Skarre (current year) does not (fact).This is because PP, at some point between the two above samlpes, hired Women and Troons (speculative).Personally, I find this explanation implausible, mostly because over the past decade PP circled precipice of bankruptcy always firing and never hiring.
>>98896826Oh, so that's what it was about.
>>98894362>Nobody cares about the loreplenty of anons care about the lore. warmahordes had (formerly) one of the best settings in tabletop gaming. much like with WHFB you just have to go back a decade or so to pre-End Times and them laying off all the talented people.
Damn, I just went full Boar on Khymaera. I now have all but the Shadow Seraph and found a shop near me that plays. Turns out, it is easier to find a game of Warmachine in my area than Warhammer. Has Warhammer become that much of a tourist attraction now?
>>98900095While I will gripe allot, there is fun to be had. 90% of a game is still its community.If your local gamers are fun, you will have fun. If you like the Minis enjoy the minis.
>>98900198>If you like the Minis enjoy the minis.Oh yeah. I did notice something about the armies people play in game on YouTube and they take the same unit multiple time in a list. I think is am going to focus more on singleton types lists as I like the minis. After reading how the warlocks and beasts work, I may take multiple of the same beast but only to add different Aminus to the spell list.
>>98785085>the goodThe core rules are solid, and they managed to not fuck up the core formula too bad yet, but...>the badThey keep adding gimmick or extra rules to new releases and not the old stuff. 4 mini-feats for Menoth that you just get for playing them, a bizarre and clunky token mechanic for Fane that doesn't interact with the existing token mechanics. SFG is trying something different, but just like Mk3 before them they are cherry picking the worst parts of the GW offerings. That is, unnecessary over-the-table rules which alter the game state with no physical interaction with the game. Also, the spell rack was a good idea and set mk4 apart and contributed to faction identity and list-building with more intimate army sizes. They got rid of it.>the uglyThe new HIPS plastic models are good, but selling 3d prints is a fucking joke. I can 3d print this quality in my garage as an amateur. Obligatory comment on the decision to squat all the old factions. It seemed like a new direction at first, but they brought cryx and menoth essentially unchanged; you could play your old models as the mk4 units no problem. Would have been nice for the others?
>>98900424A thing I realized about Minis hobbies as a whole, is that really, they all start to suck eventually because they have to keep selling product.The ones that don't have a constant ruleset, which are an excuse to play fight with your painted guys, which is a 200+ year old tradition really.But yeah, the game can still be really enjoyable. Don't get sucked into FOMO and find others that are like you.
>>98900475Blood Bowl is probably the best recent example of "leave well enough alone." Don't even mind the latest GW offering, but I wrinkle my nose at the new positionals with cute special rules in every new team. No one asked for any of that, just make a nicer toy (mini).
>>98900472>They keep adding gimmick or extra rules to new releases and not the old stuff.I really hate this mindset and you need to get this through you head. When you want to make money after buying something older, you need to remake or remove the old stuff. The idea that a company can actually make updated rules for models they can't even produce is great. If you like your old stuff, sometimes just having it playable it is familiar state is best.>t. Human Sphere Tohaa player
>>98900539>tohaa The army that came out with a gimmick triad fireteam and is now squatted? Cool.
>>98900696No.bthey still get rules updated to allow me to play the army well over a decade after the last model was released. I still dumpster people when I bring the army out. It's great. Also, the term squatted changed meaning 2022, when they returned to the 40K setting. You may need to update you lexicon
>>98900728>You may need to update you lexiconTohaa'dNta, but I miss Tohaa, they were cool and had some interesting gimmicks, especially the pokemon.>>98900472There's something very AOS/modern vidya about Mk4 that I don't like. Stuff like all the subfaction micro abilities and mini feats/gimmicks, like the Satyxis dread tides thing where your army summons waves to wash over the field, or the speed boosts from taking objectives. This combined with the dumbing down of the rules makes the game feel like a modern hero shooter.
>>98896826god damn the visual design of this game has gone downhill hard
>>98896826PP has nothing to do with Warmahordes anymore. Their only thing is cleaning up after the Monsterpocalypse stuff and maybe something on the horizon.
Any particular glue you guys are using on the new models? I bought one of the Old Umbrey boxes and these fuckers do not seem to want to stick together with the glue I usually put together my 40k stuff with.
>>98902370Yee. The old stuff was hand sculpted by people with a specific vision. The new stuff is cadslopped by 'modern designers' and looks over greebled and bad. I swear some are designed in heroforge.>>98902513I've not got the new stuff, but if it's plastic then Revell cement should be fine. Otherwise use superglue.Do NOT use gw/citadel brand glue, that stuff is utterly shite and should be binned in favour of stuff that actually works.
>>98902513Superglue. The models are 3D prints, so plastic cement will not work on them.
>>98900539
>>98903881I will always love this meme. I was so pissed they cancelled Tohaa after Spiral Corps
>>98902531i was more referring to the graphic design of the card than the model, but you're not wrong about the models either. mk 1-3 had some great sculpts. my trollblood still hold up even against like modern GW aos kits. privateer press were early adopters of Zbrush all the way back in like 2007 so their sculpt quality was leaps and bounds ahead of GWs for a long time. its only in the last 5-7 years that GW caught up, particularly with its age of sigmar ranges, to the stuff PP was putting out 5-10 years prior. but the new stuff has definitely gone downhill, its just too busy and lacks grit. not to say PP didnt sometimes stumble (the plastic resculpt of the mauler fucking sucked compared to the og metal), but generally they were hitting more balls than strikes which is impressive considering just how many model kits they were putting out
>>98900475this is where the ancient /awg/ mantra of "always pay the creators of shit you like, but don't buy rules from people who make minis, and don't buy minis from people who make rules" comes from. If a company only makes minis, then money incentives them to make the best minis they can and to keep doing it forever. If a publisher only sells rules, then money incentives them to make the best rules they can and keep doing it forever. but as soon as you mix the two it becomes profitable to create a closed system that slowly cannibalizes itself, bloats out of control, and everything goes to shit.
