https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PTSJJdqLB8https://gundam-official.com/seed/freedom/
Shinn glaring in rubble while the other two are posing like an album cover, his natural habitat.
Midquels are the most pointless thing in the world.>see this adventure where nothing matters, you already know the endingWHAT IS THIS FORI HATE THE ANTICHRIST
>>24045229agreed 0083 is the shittiest UC entry
>>24043505This sucks
>>24045229On the plus side, at least Shinn will get his MC spotlight back without it being stolen.
>>24045229We get to see the Destiny Impulse in action, that's what it's for.
>>24046496Destiny Impulse isn’t appearing.
You get this but not Astray.
>>24046749Yeah, Fukuda doesn't seem to like appearing like he's using other people's ideas for SEED. It 100% will be a new one-off upgrade that will somehow be destroyed by the end of the movie.
>>24046496Either Shinn just pulls a Kamille, and smashes the Murasame on the SF, or he gets...a prototype of the rising freedom to defeat the SF.
>>24045229Stop asking for more uc content then. Same thing
>>24046945I was just about to say how many OYW side stories are there? MS Team, War in the Pocket, Thunderbolt, Blue Destiny, does Origins also count?
Why no hyping???
>>24046974MS IGLOO too, Requiem for Vengeance, tons of other stuff if you go to the manga and game side too like Cross Dimension 0079 (it's a pretty normal side-story in spite of the name).
>>24046749>Destiny Impulse isn’t appearing.Fukuda said he feels that the idea of Destiny Impulse is too powerful for a battery powered mobile suit. That the WoL should only be for a nuclear reactor. Impulse is better with pack switching mid battle.
>>24046945I want to see UC after Victory.
>>24045229Timmy your UC is so lame
>>24047255Your wish is granted
>>24046941He's going to pilot IJ. That's why Athrun is shown to be somewhere else and why they're hiding the pilot. IJ is also shown using a single saber which Athrun almost never did (only once and only because it was retraced stock footage of Freedom) but Shinn almost always defaulted to on Impulse. It's gonna be that Shinn deploys in IJ out of desperation because Athrun is away and nothing else can tough SF and it's what sets up Shinn piloting Immortal Justice in the film.
>>24047244Fuck Fukuda up his ass with a rusty rake. He never understands what is awesome and what is shit.
>>24047437Go back to your contaiment thread.
>>24047437Continuing crying Timmy
>all I wanted from SEED were some new Strike and Destiny>the former got jackshit>the latter only got a recolor
>>24047456Who the fuck is timmy
>>24047255Gaia Gear unfortunately ain't happening.
>>24048316Only in Gundam is an about 2-3 years old military grade weapon is suddenly considered obsolete and useless.
>>24048316If they could pull some new stuff for Duel and Buster then they could've came up with something for the Strike too.
>>24047436>He's going to pilot IJ.No. What will happen is that IJ will be unavailable because it's being rebuilt in some Orb hangar as Z'Gok. So Athrun can't use it. The only suits available will probably be Akatsuki and the Zaft grunt mobile suits.
>>24047329>>24047456>Timmyfriendly reminder that brownoids are paedophiles and/or child killers, hence why their go-to slur against Whites is a name associated with little boys
>>24048340>are paedophiles and/or child killersYou just described red hats whose demographic is majority white.
>>24048317Fuck, I made one mistake, so it invalidates everything I wrote.
>>24048357It won't happen because someone else did it before Fukuda. He will pull something else.
Why do you even want Destiny Impulse when it is a battery guzzler? Do you want Shinn to job even harder?
>>24048381>Destiny is the only nuclear-powered unit that we see running out of energy in all of the seriesUntil SEED Freedom.
>>24048366>Fukuda is a petty assholeAccording to who?
>>24048388Am I supposed to believe a random post on 4chan just because?
>>24048386>Even the big showdown in the movie's climax was retconned by Fukuda as "nah, SF only ran out of coolant, not power" despite the indicator literally saying on-screen "ENERGY STORE - OVER CHARGE - ALERT"It was never retconned. You just misunderstood the display. It's not an energy gauge. It's a temperature gauge. That's why it says coolant and temp. Both Fukuda and other seed staff confirmed it several times.
>>24048394Cry harder, schizo. You'll never be a able to win any debate like that.>>24048402I concede.
>>24048381>Destiny is the only nuclear-powered unit that we see running out of energy in all of the series.Doesn't it use a conventional battery that happens to be powered by a nuclear reactor to get around the conditions of the treaty banning nuclear-powered MS?
>>24048414no, it has a fancy-ass "deuterion hyper capacitor" system instead of regular batteriesregardless, even a regular nuclear reactor is best used with batteries to temporarily store power before it is used, so it's really unlikely that the freedom didn't have some batteries anyway since all of the beam tech in CE already relied on batteries and not a direct link to the reactor
>>24048416>This is complete horseshit and, again, a retcon.It doesn't matter what you think. The staff said it was a temperature gauge since the movie came out. Deal with it. There was no retcon.
>>24048431>In particular, the "Hyper Deuterion Engine" incorporated into the engine section is a hybrid power source of deuterium and nuclear, which was used in the Impulse and others, and the two generators complement each other so that there is theoretically no power loss (the nuclear engine installed in the Freedom and others also theoretically does not lose power, but the Hyper's output is orders of magnitude higher. This is what makes the Hyper so hyper. Amazing, Hyper). However, for some reason, the Destiny experiences a power loss in this episode. This is speculation based on various sources, but the Destiny, being a relatively new unit since its rollout, was still in the process of gathering combat data and making adjustments. However, because it was so powerful, it never reached its limits even when facing several Destroy units. Then came the sudden encounter with the Strike Freedom. This time, the opponent was Kira, full of fighting spirit. It seems that the Destiny was pushed to its maximum potential too quickly in this battle, causing some kind of error in its engine, and one of the units was unable to charge up in time, which is likely the cause of this situation. So, what is the truth?
>>24048428>>24048414>>24048431If you really dive deep in the databooks (I did), Deuterion batteries and Deuterion power systems are much more capable of transmitting power to weapons and other systems across the mobile suit. The databooks said that Zaft faced problems when trying to use weapons with high energy demands on battery powered mobile suits. Such as using freedoms beam rifle and cannons on battery powered suits. The mobile suit power system simply could not keep up and transmit enough power to match the high power demands of the weapons. It would fire a few shots then the suit would have power errors, not be able to continuously fire, or shut down.So Deuterion batteries and transmission systems was created for mobile suits to handle weapons with a higher power demands. These new technologies helped lead to the creation of the Second Stage series of Zaft mobile suits.
>>24048416>Fukuda: The Freedom gets into a dangerous situation halfway through, but that’s not because the power is dropping but because the phase shift is about to exceed its impact resistance limit, and the reactor temperature is rising too high and needs to be cooled. In other words, it’s getting overheated. That’s why we introduced the Proud Defender to cool it down.You can also go deeper on his Twitter account where he occasionally answers questions and even likes comments and videos from fans. Especially when they guess his intent correctly. He's restated the temperature thing several times. Proud Defender is also nuclear powered and shared it's own reactor coolant with Strike Freedom's nuclear reactor. Thus restoring the suit to about 75% capacity which is reflected in the *temperature* gauge according to Fukuda (his exact words). The Disruptor needs 2 nuclear reactors to function and needs authorization from Lacus to fire.
>>24048444Dont spoon-feed him. Make him do his own research.
>>24048454Still crying?
>>24048436One of the information books states that Destiny's reactor took damage when Kira used the railguns at point blank range on Destiny's chest. While the phase shift protected Shinn from destruction, the railgun impact still damaged internal systems including the reactor.
>2026 >Still believing post-hoc statements from the guy who said Cagalli was the Heroine of SEED Destiny and thought railguns were the same as beamsOn the subject of the Destiny power shittery "its actually a heat gauge guys!" must be the latest line Fuckuda is towing after the previous "Destiny's reactor was knocked loose with no visible damage" and "Destiny activated a secret overclock mode that wasn't alluded to in the show at all" argumentsFukuda is essentially the same as JK Rowling, someone in desperate need of a tard wrangler to stop them from mangling what few things of value they create
>>24048402Thanks for citing your source, unlike seagull-kun who always runs away
>>24048387>when asked what research he did for Gundam Seed, Fukuda said he tried to watch one episode of Gundam X but quit halfway through. He then returned the tape without rewinding it.
>>24048747>Fukuda is essentially the same as JK RowlingGo back to your containment thread Timmy.
>>24048763Who is Timmy?
>>24048747We've seen mobile suits take internal damage even with phase shift still activated. So it's nothing new for Destiny to take damage through the phase shift armor. You just don't pay attention to the show
>>24048774term Indians use to refer to white people
>>24048763>TimmyLol. I understood this one. Those anons aren't going to understand the insult but good one.
>>24048894Buster Gundam when it gets slammed into the ground and starts sparking all over. Dearkka starts listing a bunch of damaged systems - even with phase shift up.Raider Gundam when Calamity jumps too hard and stomps on top of Raider to ride it during battle. The entire suit starts sparking and straining.Raider Gundam when it lost its weapon and the entire arm started sparking and short circuiting and showing visible damage.Freedom Gundam when getting hit by Raider Gundam's spiked mace in the back, and we visibly see bits of phase shift armor getting ripped off the suit.Justice Gundam when taking a hit from behind from a bazooka.Gaia Gundam getting smacked around by Gouf Custom's whip and a electricity was arcing around the cockpit.Gaia, Abyss, and Chaos Gundam when Freedom smacked them around during Seed Destiny.
>>24048828>term Indians use to refer to white peopleIs this what newfags like you really think? Wow this board really has fallen.
>>24048760That was based though.
>>24048344you gotta go back
>>24048894>When? Where?Here's an example I remember.
>>24048970>Proof of internal damage>webm of external damage
>>24048931All of those are examples of actual damage though? With the Gundam sparking and throwing up errors because of the hit they take. The Destiny gets shot by railguns, is unscathed and nothing in the cockpit suggests damage.Fuckuda simply needed a the right to end without Shinn dying get so he bullshitted a reason for it, and then years later decided to make up reasons for it that aren't consistent with the rest of SEED
>>24048997it's kinda necessary to go through the outside to affect the internalsif it's just cosmetic exterior damage then they would still work and auel wouldn't be complaining
>>24049005>it's kinda necessary to go through the outside to affect the internalsYeah that's what we're saying, so it's irrelevant to the point the other guy was making about internals getting damaged while the externals are untouched
>>24049001destiny is nuclear powered phase shift, abyss is battery phase shift and it got shot in the vents which are thinnest part of the armor even if covered in phase shiftneed I remind you that nuclear space station phase shift ignored anti-matter as if it didn't exist?
>>24049001>All of those are examples of actual damage though?All? No. Half of the examples don't take external damage. The Gouf damaged the Gaia Gundam without breaking the phase shift armor. Raider Gundam getting jumped on too hard.Buster crashing to the ground with the phase shift on, but warning lights and damage indicators being thrown up.
>>24049010>need I remind you that nuclear space station phase shift ignored anti-matter as if it didn't existSo why would mobile suit sized railguns damage it? You're arguing against your own point now
>>24049014Because they are NUCLEAR powered railguns. Higher electrical output and greater acceleration means the slugs do more damage.
>>24049009it's not irrelevant, some people think phase shift means invulnerability to impacts and forces and projectilesit is possible to damage something despite phase shift protecting it, but it needs quite a lot of bullshit going on. e.g., freedom getting impaled was a really high speed impact by impulse at maximum thrust and they still decided to animate the beam edge covering the tip of the blade just to give it the little extra plausibility in case someone complains why didn't phase shift simply nullify the entire thingabyss didn't even lose phase shift in the scene where its legs gets busted up either, so it was still protected AND it was unable to handle the impact>>24049014we literally just told you the abyss is basic-bitch-battery powered PS armor, how the fuck did you speedread that?
>>24049012Reading comprehension anon.ACTUAL damage, as in, even though their phase shift maintained composure the direction of the episode shows that those mobile suits took internal damage through sound effects like creaks and visual effects like alerts on screens and sparks flying everywhere.Nothing during the SF Destiny fight communicates that the railgun hit lead to Destiny running out of power save for the director who changes his mind constantly changing his mind after the show was made.I could say the Destiny and SF's beam cannons colliding caused a short circuit or that the voiture lumiere had a bad reaction to the crisp ocean air and it'd have the same validity as a reason for any the Destiny could continue a fight that isn't that different to any other fight it took part in
>>24048747Actually if you go through it frame by frame, when Strike Freedom nails Destiny Gundam with the railguns we do see bits of phase shift armor get blown off of Destiny Gundam.
>>24049018>we literally just told you the abyss is basic-bitch-battery powered PS armor, how the fuck did you speedread that?And I'm talking about Destiny's nuclear PS that the other guy was comparing to a space station not being able to handle railguns, you're the one that's speedreading
>>24049023>a space station not being able to handle railgunsThe sentence says "nuclear space station phase shift ignored anti-matter", not "unable to handle railguns"
For the nerds here isn't it true seed beam sabers cannot clash and just cut through each other and that's how Athrun beat Shinn at Orb?I remember it being called out for Shura vs Athrun but they left it in because quote 'it looked sick as hell'.
>>24049064if that was the case then everyone would just post the webm of it happening with shinn and athrun but yeaah, that doesn't happen here
IJ is going to get damaged (mainly losing Fatum-01) when attempting to stop rampaging SF. This is what warranties the retrofit that we see in GSF.
>>24049064No, this is not and has never been true.
>>24049064That was never true. Fukuda was at an event like 2 years and explained his thoughts. He said that he dislikes Gundam series where the shields are treated as disposable and discarded after blocking a single attack. He finds it visually boring and a waste of a shield.Fukuda explained to the Japanese fans that in his Gundam Seed series, shields are also treated as weapons that can't be ignored. If you don't stop the enemy's shield, then they will bash you with it and cause damage. Like Captain America hitting enemies or a riot police officer hitting protestors. Some shields also have built in weapons so when enemies clash with sabers, the shields must be stopped with a saber or another shield. Sabers can clash, but Fukuda feels it's more important to stop the enemy's shield.
>>24049805I do like how gundam seed makes shields cool looking. No other gundam series does it better.
>>24043505i find it weird that this is an entirely new movie. When it got announced, i thought it was just gonna be a small ova. The plot aint that significant for a fullblown movie, no?
>>24051408Seed Freedom was the highest Gundam box office movie of all time. Far surpassing Hathaway's Flash and other UC movies. Seed Freedom sold amazingly well on Blu-ray too. It's a no brainer that Bandai would give this anime a bigger budget to allow it to be a movie instead of a cheaper OVA.
>>24051491That doesn't answer the question of the other Anon, Fukudafaggot (yes, that's your name from now on). All you're doing is an "it's popular" defense. There's little meat to this particular bone: the Freedom theft was a single scene in the movie. How much padding you need to add to extend that story to >90 minutes?Especially with Sunrise insisting on putting Morosawa's name as screenwriter, an individual that passed away about a decade ago and couldn't have left anything except assorted notes (a "Story By" credit would've been more adequate).Also, why didn't they bring Liu Gotoh back for this one?
>>24052072>The entire backstory of Foundation and county rebelling against the Earth Alliance>The Freedom hijack and why it happened. >Shinn's transformation during the movie from Zaft to loyal Compass officer >Agnes's role>Creation of Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice>Creation of Compass>Shinn forgiving Neo/Mwu>Creation of Black Knights and Accords.There is plenty left to explore.
>>24052079>Shinn's transformation during the movie from Zaft to loyal Compass officerDone already in Destiny's Final Plus: Shinn will follow "Commander Kira" to whatever he orders. The "let's fight together" thing was all he needed.>Shinn forgiving Neo/MwuIf you think they're touching that one, I got some shitcoins to sell you.>The entire backstory of Foundation and county rebelling against the Earth AllianceFrom what we have seen, it doesn't look like they will do much with that one. And the Earth Alliance isn't a one-world government like the UC's Federation. It's a military pact. Fukuda is too much of a fat moron to remember Eurasia was supposed to be a separate entity from the Atlantic Federation, but it was there on Destiny.>Creation of Black Knights and Accords.Difficult to put there, unless you do a lot of unrelated flashbacks to events decades in the past. How old are the Black Knight shitters?
>>24052115>How old are the Black Knight shitters?Varies from 15 (CE 59) to 18 (CE 56).As an aside, the attack on Mendel happened on CE 68, so all of Aura's "children" were born and raised on the colony. If Durandal was a father figure for them, it's likely they knew Rey.
>>24052115>If you think they're touching that one, I got some shitcoins to sell you.Pretty much, even the other characters pretended Neo never existed once he was back with the Archangel. They don't want our heroes to have any bad blood on their hands.
>>24052130>Pretty much, even the other characters pretended Neo never existed once he was back with the Archangel. They don't want our heroes to have any bad blood on their hands.Even if they do it, they'll probably have Shinn apologizing, rather than the other way around. It's not like Mwu simply forgot all the nasty shit he did as Neo, right?
>>24052133Even if he did, I doubt they'll touch on it and only care about the fact that he's back with the Archangel and Murrue.
so everyone is agreed, essentially the entire cast is conspiring to keep him in the dark about the whole thing, and shinn is retarded and couldn't recognize neo without the mask, right?
needs scenes of Luna rubbing oils on her self
>>24049805>Fukuda was at an event like 2 years and explained his thoughts.>Fukuda explained to the Japanese fansBlah blah blah. "Fukuda said this and that..." Why don't you EVER post a link to support any your claims?We are not taking your fucking word for anything you say. Do your own homework. They should be on Twitter.Look at this Anon: >>24048402. Claim got backed up with a screencap. You can do it as well.>He said that he dislikes Gundam series where the shields are treated as disposable and discarded after blocking a single attack. He finds it visually boring and a waste of a shield.That's literally how shields work in real life: they are not designed to take more than a few direct hits (sometimes only one) until it loses its protection and becomes dead weight. This applies to ballistic plates and atmospheric reentry protection.
>>24052191Your response is way too overblown. Relax. Why are you quoting posts that were deleted by mods.
>>24052205Blah, blah. Why don't you EVER post a link to support any your claims?>Why are you quoting posts that were deleted by mods.I dunno why that got deleted, but the point stands. Claim was made, and was supported by a quote, a thing you never fucking do. You expect to take your babbling as fact instead of doing the job of corroborating them.
>>24052210Blah, why do you need to go through all of this rigamarole? what do you have to gain from all this except tearing down discussion to a halt? you must be a nigger of a person to deal with in real life, demanding proof of everything
>>24052210>He thinks we are all the same personYou have mental problems
>>24052210Of course the post was deleted. You claim to be a long time poster but you don't even know the rules? Obviously you are a newf4g.
>>24045229>me when another day without another oyw rehash
>>24052395I'm almost 40 and I still have never seen or read Naruto.
>>24052395>Seed>Not a OYW rehash
>>24052463I don't think they watched 0079. Probably turned off by the old animation.
>>24052463>>24052466Funny. I don't really remember Amuro fighting a bunch of other Gundams with pilots on drugs that could match his reaction time. I also don't remember an island nation called Orb with super advanced technology and an autodestruct system to blow everything up in case of invasion.
>>24052160>Hey, Shinn! Remember that guy responsible for your not-girlfriend's death? Well, guess what? He's on our side now. In fact, he's been on our side longer than you have.
>>24052484You really can't see the forest for the trees.
>>24052493God is in the details.
>>24052497Maybe if you have autism.
>>24052652Sex with Luna?
>>24052380>but you don't even know the rules?That post didn't break any rules, anon got banned and the mods decided to wipe all of his posts out.
>>24048329Real life is similar
>>24052661So you don't know the rules. Got it.
>>24052670Which of the 18 rules that apply to this board did it break, you fucking nigger? You seem to know which.
>>24052661Newfag detected
>>24052683Stop samefagging and answer the question.
>>24052489Stellar killed Heine........
>>24052660No. No Sex allowed without C.O.N.S.E.N.T. Or the countries of eurasian geopolitical bloc will collectively riot
>>24052380>>24052661>That post didn't break any rulesThis is why I hate summer children like you.
>>24052463Seed borrows some of the same story beats (Trojan horse, Earth descent, asteroid bases) as the OYW but Seed largely becomes its own unique story roughly after 20 episodes. Especially with the whole Orb storyline.
>>24052484I mean, if you take it like that then none of the OYW side-stories are rehashes since they reused even less from MSG's plot beats than SEED does.
>>24052489Kira killed Stella if anything Neo tried to help protect her from him
>>24051408Morosawa partially wrote it as her last work and he's obsessed with getting this tribute out to her as a result. I think he really doesn't like that on the whole the fanbase thinks Morosawa is a shitty writer and that was cemented permanently with her death and hoping that putting this out and getting her credit will shift opinion a little as posthumous work of hers.
>>24052714Neo lied about taking her out of the battlefield and shoved her into the Destroy.
>>24052716Morosawa was a shitty writer and one of the worst in the franchise.
>>24052716>I think he really doesn't like that on the whole the fanbase thinks Morosawa is a shitty writer and that was cemented permanently with her deathI'm not the biggest SEED fan but I don't think Morosawa is a completely bad writer. I liked her work on Cyber Formula for instance.
>>24052716Yeah it seems like alot of Fukuda's comments are driven by the "Morosawa was the worst writer ever" "She ruined Destiny because she hated Cagalli's VA and wanted her self insert fantasy's" "Fuck that bitch I'm glad she's dead" comments online and so forth
>>24052072>>24052115It seems like while Fukuda is mostly pushing it to try and give Morosawa one last posthumous credit and the Freedom Hijack was a relatively short thing they're taking the opportunity to flesh out the transition from Destiny to Freedom more and give Shinn the lead role because of how well received he was in Freedom. Was it needed? Probably not, but I can see the intent
>>24052079I'd really like them to explain if Durandal was secretly planning to give total world control to the Accords all along or if he branched off from Aura and them long ago and planning on having Shinn and Rey stop them if they tried to take over but I don't expect Fukuda to care enough about something like that to bother
>>24052964If Durandal had won, then Zaft would have crushed Foundation. A tiny country (with no support) is no match for all the resources of Zaft. I don't care if they have Accords. Durandal would just clone an army of Rey Za Barrels and crush them.And if you believe the databooks, Destiny Gundam was supposed to be mass produced for the Durandal's elite pilots.
>>24052967The question is if Durandal was in league with them all along. They both wanted the Destiny Plan but Durandal, at least claimed he wanted the Destiny Plan to give all of humanity a fair shake while the Accords wanted the Destiny Plan because under it they'd be the undisputed overlords instead and thought the Earth and Naturals were scum to be ruled over. The question is if Durandal was lying or not, and he did lie quite often
>>24052980I was under the impression that Durandal and Aura worked together briefly. But then they split off and decided to do their own plans seperately. With a sort of "gentleman's agreement" to see who could achieve their dream goals first without interfering with each other. Sort of like a former co-workers who stopped talking to each other. I don't think Durandal was involved with the creation of the Accords. He seemed more interested in Cloning and trying to isolate the Seed factor. Aura was the one obsessed with youth and psychic telepathy.
>>24053012Between the two of them and Dr. Hibiki, the whole bleeding-edge of genetic technology was a bunch of guys who all collaborated but had entirely different goals and didn't seem to ask too many questions as long as they didn't get in each other's way. Durandal knew enough about Hibiki's cloning work that he was able to make Rau's pills, after all.
>>24052661>That post didn't break any rulesIf you are so sure then go ahead and repost what he posted. After all it didn't break any rules right?
>>24053115people will claim this is photoshopped
>>24052702Retard.
>>24052258>what do you have to gain from all this except tearing down discussion to a halt?As if discussing unfounded hearsay and made up rumors wasn't pointless and actively detrimental to the board.
>>24053138you know how it is, you have to be prepared to win arguments
>>24053130>>24053135>>24053138>>24053142Samefag detected. It's way too obvious when you reply to yourself within 10 minutes between posts. At least wait a couple hours between posts. Try harder anon.
>>24053012Maybe. Like with Durandal though it's difficult to get a grasp because alot of the stuff he says is just to mess with Kira and Lacus's heads
>>24053130>>24053138>>24053142Why are you replying to yourself? You aren't even trying to disguise it.
>>24053327>>24053422Why are you samefagging while calling others a samefag?
>>24052967最強のMSと優秀なエースパイロットを組み合わせた部隊で地球連合の戦力を一蹴し、戦意を阻喪させることを目的に構想されたザフト特殊部隊「コンクルーダーズ」用に製造された機体。デスティニー自体はシンが搭乗する1機のみと思われてきたが、近年公開された資料によって別の同型機の存在が明かされた。ハイネ・ヴェステンフルスもコンクルーダーズの一角に選ばれ、専用調整されたデスティニーも製造されていたが、完成直前に彼が戦死したため、部隊が編成もされることはなかった。その後、同機はザフトの兵器保管庫に保存されているTurns out Heine's machine does exist and was kept in storage.
>>24053066Hibiki apparently wasn't very popular given Aura wanted Kira and Cagalli killed on principle
>>24043505No ass
>>24048344Jews aren't white
>>24053432You are seriously, genuinely fucked in the head.
>>24053549Says the mentally ill schizo.
I've watched only SEED, should I just proceed onto Destiny or are there parts of the Astray manga I should read beforehand?
>>24053658the manga have little to no crossover with the animation other than taking place in the same world. the manga might reference some things from the animation but not the other way aroundread them if you're interested in more of the same world, but it's not required for understanding or enjoyment.
>>24053508Interesting information. However This seems borderline heretical with the story created by the anime staff. The reason I say this is because I recall Durandal saying it took all of Zaft's resources to create just the two Destiny and Legend Gundams. The fact that there was another Destiny Gundam just sitting in storage seems crazy to me. There's no way Durandal would have let another Destiny Gundam just sit in storage during the final battle. He would have given it to another ace pilot to help defend Messiah. Why not give it to Yzak, Dearkka, Lundamaria, or even Agnes? Letting it sit in storage seems insane to me. Especially when Shinn and Rey were outnumbered and outgunned. They had to fight Strike Freedom, Infinite Justice, Akatsuki, and the three Dom pilots. Even with Lunamaria in Impulse helping that's still a 3 VS 6 disadvantage. And that's before Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice use Meteor mobile armors. Destiny and Legend don't have any equivalent to meteor.
>>24043505Is this the original SEED movie that was supposed to release in the 2000s after Destiny?
>>24053676welcome to gundamfirst time trying to mental cartwheel the retcons?
where's that fucker that claimed the image broke the rules?fuck yes I will harp on this because he was wrong as fuck
>>24053688In the retcon, did they scream "STRIKE!!!" instead of "MWU!!!"?
>>24053742I think the remaster still acts as though he died since him surviving in Destiny is still treated to be a huge surprise.
>>24053744Sorry it was a bad joke from me...
>>24047421Could be worse.
>>24053676>The reason I say this is because I recall Durandal saying it took all of Zaft's resources to create just the two Destiny and Legend GundamsHe never says anything like that. Just that they are the latest bleeding edge in Zaft technology and Destiny was customized for Shinn perfectly. Unless that's something from a databook or something
>>24053895Incorrect. Durandal does say it. Depending on your episode sub translation, he says the Zaft weapons arsenal worked without rest just to build the Destiny and Legend Gundam. These two units are the pride of the Zaft forces. In the english dub it's even more clear. Durandal says the Zaft weapons arsenal worked tirelessly to create these two masterpiece suits. They are the pride of the Zaft military.
>>24053906That's not saying that it took all of Zaft's resources to build them and they couldn't build more. Just that they worked really really hard on them which is the standard for pretty much any Gundam construction.
How do capital ships work in the Cosmic Era, especially the Archangel, which can fly? Neutron Jammers ensure that nuclear fusion cannot take place, and they're spread around the world, so what powers the Archangel?
>>24053911>That's not saying that it took all of Zaft's resources to build them Uh...how much resources do you think Zaft has available to spend? They aren't made of money anon! Destiny and Legend Gundam are enormously expensive. There's a reason why Zaft never made more Freedom Gundams and just spammed them against the Earth Alliance during the first war. Zaft can't afford it. They don't have the resources to do it.
>>24053939Then maybe the subs should fucking say so instead of just saying the workers are really tiredor you picked a really bad example, like ESL bad.
>>24053676The line about Heine's machine being kept in storage exclusively appeared in the 2010 HG manual. The 2019 HGCE one omitted that last sentence.This is the original 2010 text.地球連合との戦争末期、ザフトは最強のモビルスーツとしてZGMF-X42Sデスティニーを投入した。長らくその存在は、シン・アスカが搭乗した一機のみだと思われてきたが、近年公開された史料から、その他にも同型機が存在することが明らかになった。ザフトは、デスティニーを効果的に運用するための特殊部隊の構想を抱いていた。「コンクルーダーズ」の名称を与えられるはずであったこの部隊は、各地の戦線から選抜された戦績優秀なパイロットを集め、主力MSにデスティニーを配備して編成される予定だった。ザフトは、最強のモビルスーツとパイロットを組み合わせた部隊で連合の戦力を一蹴してその戦意を阻喪させることを企てていたのだ。ハイネ・ヴェステンフルスはその一員に選ばれ、専用に調整されたデスティニーの製造も開始されていた。しかし、ハイネは機体の完成直前に戦死し、部隊も実際に編成されることはなかった。主を失ったデスティニーは、今もザフトの兵器保管庫で目覚めの時を待ち続けている
>>24053941Do you have aspergers?
>>24053952no duh, maybe it'd help you with arguments in a gundam seed thread
>>24053951Is there a reason why Durandal never used this spare Destiny Gundam? Because another Destiny Gundam probably would have made a massive difference during the war.
>>24053993>Admitting you have aspergers Everything finally makes sense. It's why you're hyper obsessed with demanding everything in writing, and why you need characters to literally say statements otherwise you don't believe them. Asperger's prevents you from understanding implication and innuendo. Your condition means you only understand things bluntly and literally. >maybe it'd help you with arguments in a gundam seed threadI'm sorry for your condition, but you shouldn't watch this anime. Avoid seed discussions too. This anime is filled with innuendo and the director loves not directly explaining things in the anime. This show will only make people with your condition very angry and upset.
>>24053939That's not what the line says. Stop changing the goalposts
>>24053941Gundam Seed has always made it very clear that Gundams can't be mass produced. Just making one single Gundam is a massive achievement for a faction.Look at Akatsuki. Setting aside the debate about whether it's a Gundam or not, it took nearly two whole Seed series to build. The databooks even say it required an enormous amount of resources. The main body was incredibly expensive since it has Gundam level performance. And then one application of the gold "mirror coating" costs about the same as the construction of 20 regular Orb grunt mobile suits. This is not a one time payment. That's EVERY SINGLE TIME the coating needs to be repaired or re-applied. Which happens often since the databooks mentions the Akatsuki needs constant maintenance after battles specifically due to the gold armor coating.
>>24054322Dude come on. Why learn things the hard way? I wasnt kidding when I said some people in this thread have autism. Trying to argue with them is a waste of your time. Dont give into their demands. Dont respond to them.
>>24054322I'll do that if you also stop conveniently explaining everything that happens in Seed which feeds into my desire for information
IJ is going to damaged (losing the Fatum-01) by SF during its rampage which why it gets repair as Spec 2 we see in GSF. The entire SF theft incident is what causes Orb, ZAFT and AF to officially ban the usage of NJC-based suits. This what led to tune-down versions (Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice) with limited endurance and firepower to be assign to COMPASS. The Proud Defender was designed as a "trump card" against an aggressor NJC-powered suit namely a SF-clone (like the Cal-re.A). This why the Cal-Re.A was completely helpless against Mighty Strike Freedom Gundam.
>>24054502>IJ is going to damaged (losing the Fatum-01) by SF during its rampage which why it gets repair as Spec 2 we see in GSF. Nah. Athrun wouldn't lose to some nobody fanboy pilot. IJ is probably going to be under maintenance when the hijack happens and Athrun can't use IJ. Shinn will probably have to jump into Destiny Impulse.>This why the Cal-Re.A was completely helpless against Mighty Strike Freedom Gundam.Cal-Re.A wasn't completely helpless. Well...the pilot Orphee was actually pretty smart. If you watch the battle, he blasts Strike Freedom multiple different angles to teat if there are any gaps in the shield. Then he immediately goes into close range sword dual fighting when the particle barrier become thin after Kira fires the lightning blast. He won't let Kira regenerate it. Then Orphee even gets up close within the shield barrier and fires the Cal.Re A chest beam cannon to bypass the Mighty Strike Freedom's barrier. All of it was smart tactics. Orphee just didn't count on Mighty Strike Freedom's Disruptor being able to fire multiple times so easily and disable Cal Re.A . Orphee had no defense against disruptor.
>>24054502Cal-re.A is not equipped with an NJC or a nuclear reactor. It runs on a battery. All Black Knight suits use batteries.
>>240453170083 is a side story with new castSo you don't know what happens. Seed zero uses the same cast
>>24054546We already see it fighting in the trailer. Shinn is probably going to pilot it since Athrun is notably shown not with the rest of the group but somewhere else on comms for the incident in the trailer.
>>24054561It has the insane output and firepower of a nuclear suit despite the battery so effectively it's still the same as far as Proud Defender is concerned. In fact it's power is superior to a nuclear reactor somehow
>>24054707Could be earlier in the movie where IJ is still active or it could be a simulation.
>>24054709>It has the insane output and firepower of a nuclear suit despite the battery so effectivelyNot really. CalreA has no phase shift armor and has very simple weapons. It's about the same as Akatsuki which also uses a battery.
>>24054709Cal-re.A is with Destroy in the stupid amount of firepower it has should not be possible without a nuclear reactor because if they have batteries that powerful then we should see them in other things. The regular Black Knight units are shown as you'd expect where Destiny runs rings around them and Shura's unit can be justified to be highly customized to match a nuclear suit (and it relies on a solid blade as it's main weapon to save power) but Orphee should not have that much ridiculous beam firepower without a nuclear reactor and if Foundation can make batteries that strong than all the Black Knight units should have that kind of power. They're not getting by with beam absorption because that trick works a few times in the first fight but then they're prepared for it.But like most technical things I doubt Fukuda cares about those details
>Cal-re.AI don't know why fukuda is so obsessed with shitty romanization. Just call it Karura like a normal person.
>>24054711Calrea A has at least double the beam firepower of Strike Freedom and superior WoL. It's significantly stronger than SF despite it's nuclear power.
>>24054711Akatsuki has to choose between beam cannons or Dragoons. Cal-re.A has both, has triple beam cannons on it's Dragoons and has superior output with it's firepower than Strike Freedom despite not having a nuclear power source while Strike Freedom does. Akatsuki doesn't even come close to that level, it could barely fire one shot of Destiny's new weapon without a nuclear reactor
>>24054717>Double the firepower ???I'm not counting the Ziggurat ships. I'm only talking about the main body.The main body only has some funnels, a beam rifle, 2 beam sabers, and a chest beam cannon. It's very basic. Akatsuki has more firepower than Calrea's main body.Honestly Kira probably could have defeated Calrea if the Shiva wasn't there harassing Strike Freedom and making it an unfair fight.>WoLIt looks similar but It's not the WoL. It's some odd "Levitator" technology that was given to them by the Zaft rebel faction. The same technology that lets the Minerva ship float on Earth. Just downscaled for mobile suits.
>>24054721Calrea's Dragoons have 4 beam cannons and 2 beam blade emitters, for a total of 32 cannons and 16 blades at once. Strike Freedom has one beam cannon per Dragoon. In terms of Beam firepower Calrea outclasses Strike Freedom several times over. It's chest cannon is also more powerful than Strike Freedom's. It only has one rifle, but when it has three more cannons and 2 more blades per Dragoon than Strike Freedom that doesn't really matter.
>>24054726>Calrea's Dragoons have 4 beam cannons and 2 beam blade emitters, for a total of 32 cannons and 16 blades at once.Which doesn't really matter because Kira personally shot down 2 or 3 of the Dragoons while dual wielding railgun rifles. Then Shura saw that Calrea was getting pushed back and losing dragoons, and so Shura jumped in to protect Orphee.>It's chest cannon is also more powerful than Strike Freedom'sBased on what?
>>24054730>Then Shura saw that Calrea was getting pushed back and losing dragoons, and so Shura jumped in to protect Orphee.Shura was there first, Orphee jumped in after and Kira pretty much gets nothing on Orphee until Mighty Strike Freedom shows up being helpless against his superior firepower other than dodging and still losing Dragoons and taking damage. The two just shit stomp on him and Kira loses all his Dragoons and his rifles and chest cannon and one railgun while Orphee doesn't get a scratch. Kira's hype moment in that fight is just shooting down a bunch of missiles and even then some get through and hit him. Strike Freedom is totally outclassed and helpless in that fight
>>24054721>Honestly Kira probably could have defeated Calrea if the Shiva wasn't there harassing Strike Freedom and making it an unfair fight.Well that's a wrong take. Disregarding that most of Strike Freedom's weapons can't even damage Orphee he's got a whole fleet of support units and much bigger and badder dragoons (which also can't be damaged by beams) Even one on one Kira would have needed a miracle to come out on top without Proud Defender.
>>24054735Or to put it another way, that fight is just not fair whether Shura is there or not. The deck is ridiculously staked in Orphee's favor
>>24054733>Kira pretty much gets nothing on OrpheeAnother lie. Kira shot down some of Orphee's dragoons. Then Shura jumped in and backstabbed Strike Freedom. Orphee's entire role was to attack Kira and then fly away. He never stays for long
>>24054546>GFZ trailer has IJ sortieing and it has Fatum-01>If SF gets jacked and goes on a rampage wouldn't it make sense to use IJ to attempt to stop it>Fans always wanted to see a match-up between SF and IJ to see how they actual fare against each other.>Orphee Nah, he was being "evil" Kira and lost his composure when his death salvo didn't destroy the SF. He pulled a GSD Shinn on "Attack!" "AttacK!" while going full oneitis on Lacus. Cal-Re.A was almost helpless while Kira/Lacus held back until they were forced to cross blades.
>>24054757I doubt a stolen Strike Freedom is going to be the only enemy in the movie. You people are forgetting about Blue Cosmos and "Michael". It would not surprise me if Michael randomly shows up with some Blue Cosmos mobile armors and a couple Destroy Gundams as fodder (since Fukuda loves bullying Destroy Gundams).
>>24054761> It would not surprise me if Michael randomly shows up with some Blue Cosmos mobile armors and a couple Destroy Gundams as fodderThe whole SF Gundam is orchestrated by Foundation. Leon will be a mental puppet and his darkness will be "I want to be the war hero!" Micheal was also a useful thrall. GFZ will showcase the full extend of the Accords and why are they very dangerous in the place. When Leon had enough of his "fun" and COMPASS looks incapable of handling it. The Black Knights will make their entrance and do a "Deus Ex Machina" and take down the SF. They let go of Michael and Blue Cosmos underlings for now for the next stage, GSF.
>>24054824That plot isn't thick enough for a 2 hour movie. >They let go of Michael and Blue Cosmos underlings for now for the next stage, GSF.No by the time of GSF, the war between Michael/Blue Cosmos has already been going on for some time. We never saw how it started. In GSD. The war had been dragging on for so long that even Kira was very frustrated and wanted to rush to end it. Then Blue Cosmos gets ignored for the rest of the movie in favor of Accords.
>>24054746Again Shura was fighting Kira before Orphee even showed up. You aren't remembering the fight correctly.
>>24055112You arent understanding what anon is talking about. He's not saying who was Kira fighting first. He is saying that once Kira was fighting both Cal. Rea and Shiv. A at the same time, Kira still managed to shoot down some of Cal. Rea's dragoons but was constantly interrupted by Shiv.A whenever Kira tried to attack Cal. Rea. That if Shiv. A was "magically" not there, then Kira could place more of his focus on just Cal. Rea, and potentially win or just inflict more damage on Cal. Rea.
>>24055122And you are both wrong. Kira clashed with Cal Rea several times while Shura backed off and was still utterly outmatched because of it's speed output and firepower. Cal Rea is ridiculous OP compared to regular Strike Freedom and it stood no chance against it. This was well understood when the movie came out, I don't know why people are suddenly saying Kira was doing well and had a chance he did not.
>>24054733>>24055133Athrun already proved that Strike Freedom Gundam can match Black Knight suits. While piloting Strike Freedom, Athrun was literally playing with Shura and mocking him and laughing at him over the communications channel. Strike Freedom Gundam didn't get scratched at all during their fight.
>>24055133>Cal Rea is ridiculous OP compared to regular Strike Freedom and it stood no chance against it.You seem to be misunderstanding something. Cal Rea Dragoons were winning because it had two pilots. Orphee focused on close range attacks while Ingrid fully focused on controlled all long range attacks and the dragoons. Kira was literally fighting 3 Elite Black (Orphee, Ingrid, and Shura) Knights at the same time. Cal Rea didn't have more output than Strike Freedom. It just had more pilots who could devote maximum attention to their specific task. While Kira had to split his attention among many different things.
>>24054719>Akatsuki has to choose between beam cannons or Dragoons.Uh no. Akatsuki doesn't NEED beam cannons in space because it can just reflect enemy beam attacks back at them. Cal. Re A would struggle hard against Akatsuki.
>>24055167wouldn't calrea just absorb the beams and call the akatsuki a knockoff?
>>24055169>wouldn't calrea just absorb the beams and call the akatsuki a knockoff?>knockoffSay that again to Akatsuki's face.
>>24054502>>24054709>>24054714>>24054717>>24054719Sorry anons. Cal-re.A is not nuclear powered. All the Foundation suits run on battery power. This was confirmed in interviews by the Seed Freedom staff which you can see on the bonus features section of the Blu-ray disc home video release. The staff said all the Foundation suits are battery powered and that Fukuda specifically told them not to make their suit explosions too big when they explode. Fukuda also specifically told the animators to make sure the Foundation beam sabers and other external weapons turn off before exploding which signals they ran out of power or the battery took damage and shut off. Apparently Fukuda hated it when the animators left the Foundation suits beam sabers and weapons still turned on before exploding.
>>24055152Cal-re.A is just a clone of SF with better defensive technology vs beam weaponry and fancier DRAGOON bits. It didn't really outclass the SF either. Kira was basically getting pin down by two remote METEORs (Ziggurats) and Shura taking pot shots (slashing off railguns and torso cannon).Despite this, Kira managed to take down some of Cal-re.A's Dragoons and negate a few Ziggurat missile salvos until SF's reactor started to overheat.
>>24055288I always thought Cal Rea was a fusion of Destiny Gundam + Legend Gundam + a regular Black Knight. The pilot is even a long haired blonde guy and it wields two anti-ship swords. I honestly wonder how Shinn in Destiny Gundam Spec II would handle Cal Rea.
>>24055288One the most unbiased assessments in the entire thread.
>>24055251I know it's not, but the fact that Cal-re.A is so powerful on a battery is just more of the nonsense that Fukuda has SEED run on and he's stupid and I hate him.
>>24055167Akatsuki has no solid weapons at all except Vulcans. It wouldn't be able to do a thing to it while Orphee destroyed it with the Ziggurats missles
>>24055138Strike Freedom can match Shura's unit (with Athrun in control who's explicitly stated in the film to be a better pilot than Kira) but not the CalRea
>>24055348>Strike Freedom can match Shura's unit (with Athrun in control who's explicitly stated in the film to be a better pilot than Kira) but not the CalReaIf you take away the Ziggurats from CalRea, then Strike Freedom can match it.
>>24055346According to the databooks the Akatsuki shield has a heat blade along the edge and tip. It's used for slicing enemies. It also had 3 beam sabers and a set of CIWS cannons.
>>24055294Judging how Shinn and Destiny Spec 2 was able to tango against four Black Knights who are getting weathered down while Destiny was taking superficial damage and got an opening to recharge Impulse.I would wager Destiny Spec 2 under Shinn's hands wouldn't really struggle against Cal-re.A even if it was backed by Ziggurat missile spam (afterimages make the salvos mostly useless). Orphee seems to be more of a commander then a combatant and seems to be the weakest out of the Black Knights at mobile suit combat. Orphee would lose easily lose his composure as his mind reading abilities are useless against Shinn's "ultra-instinct" combat style.
>>24055054First half of the movie will involved dealing pacfiying with Pro-Durandal ZAFT element. This where newly formed COMPASS comes in. The second half will involve the events that led to SF heist and its consequences. The ending will reveal that Orphee was behind everything and teases that he is moving to next step of his plans.
>>24055415Too easyand predictable. Fukuda will definitely throw more than just that in the movie.
I hope Shinn gets a new Gundam. It would be so lame if he was stuck with a Murasame.
>>24055346The Black Knight's FTA weren't immune to beam sabers. Akatsuki's don't need a physical melee weapon but it definitely needed a physical range weapon.
>>24055510Mighty Strike Freedom's Katana was originally designed for Akatsuki. But Freedom borrowed it. Seems fair to give Akatsuki the katana if we do a hypothetical against Calrea. I'm guessing the katana was designed after it's encounter with Destiny Gundams Anti-ship sword. The standard beam saber wasn't enough to parry it.
>>24045229Midquels can be great, following up a huge gap between two chronological entries.But there just doesn't seem to be be any room to fill in the gap with anything particularly interesting in this case.
>>24052463This anon gets it.
>>24055569The movie is probably going to focus on Shinn and Mwu. Especially Shinn to explain his personality shift between end of Destiny dark Shinn to happier Shinn during Freedom.
>>24045229>>24055569Maybe the work that became Freedom Zero was originally meant to come out first, but with both it and Freedom being delayed for 20 years, they decided to get Freedom out first instead to celebrate SEED's big return with the main dish instead of the lesser story leading up to it.
>>24055438Again he's going to pilot IJ against the stolen SF
>>24055359The Ziggurats are part of CalRe.A. You might as well say SF can utterly wreck Shura if he leaves his big sword behind
>>24055625>The Ziggurats are part of CalRe.A.Ehhhhhhhhhhhh......they are optional armaments at best.
>>24045229I agree. They should've released Zero first.
>>24055427Nah, it will be plot and only thing Fuduka will add is drama between the cast. The main thread would Shinn transition from being the angry, angst character during GSD into the happy protege of Kira that we see in GSF. The second thread will be Agnes's back story and Leon's tragic fall. A possible love triangle might be there between Leon, Agnes and Shinn.
>>24055574Mwu will be lightly touched. It will be Agnes backstory running the B-thread of the character plot.
>>24052395Kill yourself narutard.
>>24055705>A possible love triangle might be there between Leon, Agnes and Shinn.Nah, it's settled already that Agnes doesn't like Shinn for being a stupid kid. She's after bigger prey: Athrun.And Shinn's pretty much settled with Lunamaria.>>24055709>Mwu will be lightly touched.And a "nah" for you too. We've had that discussion before: >>24052130The story definitely does not want to touch the fact that Mwu is the Butcher of Berlin.
>>24055623They probably will have either a new variant of a new MS, for the simple reason that they need to sell gunpla, this is (seemingly) a full movie after all.
>>24057977They do. It's IJ with Immortal's prototype Shield with parts to configure it for a flight mode that hasn't been shown yet. Which all but confirms Shinn is piloting it.
>>24058152>Which all but confirms Shinn is piloting it.A massive leap without evidence. There's no way Athrun is letting Shinn touch Infinite Justice. It's his personal baby. It's clearly Athrun piloting it.Didn't you watch the 4K Blu-ray extended edition of Seed Freedom? Athrun made fun of Shinn's piloting skills. He scolds Shinn for losing Immortal Justice, and says Shinn needs 10 more years of training before he can properly pilot a Justice Gundam.
>>24058160NTA, but I remember Shinn talking shit about the Justice and how much better the Destiny is. Also, shitting on Athrun too. Though, to be fair he's not wrong. Athrun was an idiot in Destiny.
>>24058160>>24058152>Athrun made fun of Shinn's piloting skills. He scolds Shinn for losing Immortal Justice, and says Shinn needs 10 more years of training before he can properly pilot a Justice Gundam.Precisely. Read this shit and tell me they're giving him Infinite Justice in this movie.
>>24058205I'm guessing that's why he got stuck with the shitty Immortal Justice in Freedom.
>>24058160Athrun is clearly not present with the rest of the group because he's shown by himself talking with the entire rest of the group (who are seemingly in their little Orb base) on screen which means he's not going to be able to do anything during the hijack. He's probably barely going to be in the film. Shinn is going to be allowed to take IJ because they're desperate and he's the only pilot they've got with them which is what will lead to him being Immortal's pilot in Freedom. Which also tracks with Shinn being the lead of the film.
>>24058209He got it because Compass needed a Justice as part of their brand but Athrun didn't want to be part of it
>>24058245>Athrun is clearly not present with the rest of the group because he's shown by himself talking with the entire rest of the group (who are seemingly in their little Orb base) on screen which means he's not going to be able to do anything during the hijack.Unless Fukuda decides to change shit up AGAIN, we know that SF and IJ were travelling together from PLANT to Orb.
>>24058253>we know that SF and IJ were travelling together from PLANT to Orb.We don't know this at all. Stop making shit up
>>24058260>We don't know this at all. Stop making shit upDid you read what I posted or not, dumbass?I'm directly quoting from the sidestory novel, from where we have most of the information about what happened before the theft incident, including Leonard's name.
>>24058272>New models of Freedom and JusticeThat's not Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice.
>>24058253>>24058260>>24058272>>24058282We know from the databooks that Zaft and Orb worked together to build the new Freedom and Justice. So it's most likely Rising Freedom and Immortal Justice being piloted in that scene in the novel.
>>24058296Okay, so why are they building up Leonard to be the traitor in that scene if he was actually piloting the shitter Freedom?Did he steal the real one while on the Archangel or something?
>>24058253That actually lines up with the trailer where Shinn is watching SF and IJ get unloaded at Orb. It just seems like Kira and Athrun weren't part of the transport and are still on Plant when the hijack happens which doesn't conflict with anything established as far as I know.
>>24058296Can't be because it's Strike Freedom that gets stolen as clearly shown in the film and here
The novel isn't accurate anymore because based on the summary of the film, which is seemingly backed up by the novel, Strike Freedom is stolen from proto-Compass's base after it's already been unloaded there (see the shots of Shinn staring at SF and IJ getting unloaded longingly). So now it seems like he delivers it and then decides to steal it and rampage later that night
>>24058317Backed up by the trailer I mean
>>24058317>>24058318Trailer has SF doing some moves in space. Space, not nighttime on Earth.
>>24058311>leonard piloting diet freedom>Hates it and Complains that he wants to pilot real Freedom. >Deliver diet Freedom to Orb. >Hit by "Into Darkness mental attack" >steals Strike Freedom>Attacks Orb with it. >Foundation comes in and saves the day. Not sure what the issue is here
>>24058324>Hit by "Into Darkness mental attack"No need for that, even. He already wanted to blow the Alliance's shit.
>>24058320Anon, Strike Freedom is holding a training saber. The same one we saw Freedom use while dueling Strike Gundam (piloted by Mwu) during Season 1. So this is clearly either a sparring match or some sort of simulated duel.
>>24058320It's got training weapons in that shot. During it's actual rampage it seems to be on earth with it's actual guns. There seems to be 3 battles in the film. 1 vs pro Durandal remnants in their custom Gouf's. 1 training match with SF vs I presume Agnes and her boyfriend (possibly these are combined with the remnants attacking during training) and one of the Freedom Hijack where SF hijacked attacks the EA and IJ AA and the Murasame's deploy to stop it.
>>24058324Thing is I don't even think Rising and Immortal were complete by the time of the hijack. That's 6 months before the film, where Rising and Immortal are mentioned to be relatively new units they were still getting adjusted to. Plus it's implied Rising and Immortal were created because they had to shelve SF after the hijack in the first place. The trailer certainly makes it look like SF was expected to be Compass's flagship unit to begin with and only the hijack ruined that.
>>24055527>after it's encounter>>24058329>It's got training weapons in that shot>it's actual gunsITS, you illiterate moron, not "it is". Learn the fucking English language before posting here.
>>24058336So you have no comeback beyond being a grammar nazi then. You concede.
>>24058335>Plus it's implied Rising and Immortal were created because they had to shelve SF after the hijack in the first place.It wasn't "shelved", just in need of repair after the Black Knights cut a gash into its chest.IJ had to use that silly Z'Gok armor because Athrun was clandestinely operating inside Foundation's territory and Terminal needed plausible deniability:>we don't know anything about a "kelpie" or any other old hag tale. go ask the eurasians
>>24058336No one respects the Grammar nazi insult
>>24058341It also got completely overhauled with new cockpit reactor and structure differences thanks to Simmons playing around with it. It wouldn't take them 6 months to repair a slash to the chest, they replaced the original Freedom's entire head in only a few days. After the hijack they decided to give the SF to Erica for mad science work with Impulse and Destiny and not use it as their main unit in favor of Rising for whatever reason.
>>24058361>they replaced the original Freedom's entire head in only a few daysIt's only in the databooks, but it's actually two months since the battle in Mendel and Boaz.>and not use it as their main unit in favor of Rising for whatever reason.If had to guess right now, marketing. No, seriously.MSV tells us in >>24049577 that PLANT's weapons manufacturers wanted to sell simplified versions of Rising and Immortal to international buyers. And what better advertising than having an ace pilot dominating the battlefield with it?Plus, they overhauled SF to add the Disruptor beam in the head.
>>24058378>Plus, they overhauled SF to add the Disruptor beam in the head.Pretty sure Erica did that alongside the other changes she made to it. While it's only obvious if you look at the linearts side by side SF Type II actually has significant paneling and design differences from the original. And these were changes Erica must have done because in the Freedom Zero trailer SF still has it's design from the show
>>24058386>still has it's designITS, you illiterate moron, not "it is". Learn to properly spell the fucking English language before posting here.
>>24058386>Pretty sure Erica did that alongside the other changes she made to it.According to Fukuda, the disruptor was made by Kira. It was not an Erica Simmons creation. As to how to square that away with the rest of the story, that's up to you.
>>24058394He must have installed it real quick when they were loading it to Millennium I guess.
>>24058394>According to Fukuda, the disruptor was made by Kira. It was not an Erica Simmons creation.You again, Fukudafaggot? Are you going to have the decency of providing a source this time around?You also haven't learned how to use commas. Get a better AI to translate your shit. You aren't even an illiterate ESL like the other Anon.
Its (I know this is wrong, I just want to anger Grammar anon) really hard to say because in the film the Disruptor literally magically appears once the Proud Defender docks. Suddenly SF has a slit on it's head crest the disruptor is behind that was not there on any of the previous shots of Type II.
>>24058394Could be a situation where Kira designed it but never got the chance install it?>>24058396Im going, to add more commas, because, it triggers, your autism.
>>24058400I think it's there in the special edition extended directors cut.
>>24058409I feel like the complexities of something like that would require a massive overhaul and not be something they could just slap on in a few hours
>>24058421>>24058409It's probably just Fukuda bullshitting around in some event in order to make his self-insert character look even cooler than he already is. Guy's worse than those Syosetu authors: he literally gave Lacus a "cheat power" in the movie.
>>24058272>>24058296At this point I feel like the novel should just be ignored as it's clear things weren't totally in sync especially as far as Rising and Immortal were given the fuck up behind the scenes ie: Fukuda wanting them to just be weak knock off's Okawara not understanding and making them full Gundam's and Fukuda just rolling with the designs because it was too late. The novel tries to hype them up as the strongest and most advanced versions of the Freedom and Justice who only lose due to Black Knight trickery and Kira being in a funk, while the GSD era suits are even weaker but win thanks to skill and Kira having his head back on. The actual film meanwhile makes it pretty clear that Rising and Immortal just can't keep up with the Black Knight MS while SF and Destiny can and they're the more powerful ones. Immortal couldn't even shake one Black Knight while Destiny is able to out manuver and fight 4 of them at once.
>>24058503My one issue with the Black Knights is how do we know when they are reading pilot minds? Is the mind reading ability "always on"? Do they have to manually trigger it? Is there some other trick? Because their mind reading gets fooled a lot during the second half of the movie.
>>24058503Well Fukuda did say that you should only pay attention to the anime and staff interviews. He specifically said to ignore everything else because scripts and ideas constantly get changed during production. To be honestt the novel doesn't make much sense either. It tries to hype up Immortal Justice and say it was more powerful than Destiny Gundam and Infinite Justice. I think we all know the truth lol.
>>24058570>Well Fukuda did say that you should only pay attention to the anime and staff interviewsWHERE DID HE SAY THAT?! Enough of your bullshit, Fukudafaggot. Put up a source or stop fucking posting your shit.>and staff interviewsWhere he makes up bullshit like "Cagalli was the protagonist of Destiny"? Fuck off.
I think anon is right that Shinn pilots IJ. He's the lead of the movie and no other MS's have been announced beyond the Murasame and Gouf and IJ rerelease with new equipment.I'm assuming it goes-Shinn spends most of the film sad because he's low level in their organization now and can't pilot because Destiny was confiscated-Kira and Athrun go to Plant with SF and IJ to do a test fight with Agnes and the other guy, during which they get involved with the Gouf guys and Agnes's boyfriend gets jealous of SF's power.-SF and IJ get tuned up at Plant and shipped back to Orb, while Kira Athrun Lacus and Cagalli remain on Plant to hash out them joining Compass. -Back at Orb Agnes's guy steals SF and runs off on a rampage. With Kira and co still at Plant and IJ as the only thing that can match SF Shinn gets the ok to pilot it from Athrun, hence the scene of AA surfacing with IJ ready to launch in it's catapult and IJ rushing into battle with only one saber drawn as opposed to the double saber which is usually how Athrun fights.-Shinn does ok (but Foundation swoops in and finishes it off) which is what leads to Compass deciding to give him the Immortal Justice when Athrun opts not to join.
>>24058642Yeah no. Shinn's not piloting Infinite Justice.>no other MS'sObviously Impulse Gundam, Akstsuki, a custom Murasame, or maybe even Immortal Justice.
>>24058656Impulse makes the most sense to me, they can just swap a couple runners and sell it as a new kit.
>>24058656>Impulse GundamIt was confiscated and given to Simmons for it's upgrade in Freedom. It and Destiny aren't showing up in this one.>AkatsukiMwu is piloting a Murasame and Cagalli is up in Plant I don't think it's showing up either.>a custom MurasameYeah we've already seen that. Mwu is piloting it.>Immortal JusticeInfinite Justice is using a prototype of Immortal's shield so I don't think it's completed by the time of the film. It and Rising were created as a response to the incident in the film to begin with
I don't think it's like Freedom where there's an entire second half of the film that's being hidden until the film drops. I think what we see is what we get here.
The only kits announced are the new Gouf, Mu's custom Murasame, new releases of SF and IJ and several upgrade part kits.
>>24058661>Impulse makes the most sense to me, they can just swap a couple runners and sell it as a new kit.Yeah. I agree. Shinn wasn't surprised to see Impulse again in Seed Freedom, but he was happy to see Destiny again. This tells me that there's room to squeeze in another Impulse story in Freedom Zero. It serves as a "back to basics" lesson for Shinn. Similar to other Hollywood or anime stories where the hero suffers a big defeat, and needs to go back re-learn the fundaments.The real question is what kind of design will they give the Impulse? Fans have been asking for Destiny Impulse for years. The staff even brought up the idea to Fukuda while making Seed Freedom. Fukuda repeatedly said no. He believes a battery powered suit can't power the Wings of Light. And That Impulse's appeal has always been about switching packs mid battle. So maybe they will give Impulse a new (non-Destiny related) pack to use in the movie? Or maybe give Impulse the Zeus pack?
>>24058672Wasn't the Proud Defender kept hidden until after the movie was released in theaters? Could be a similar situation here.
>>24058674You guys really need to give up on Destiny Impulse. They're never doing it.
>>24058677The entire second half of the film was kept secret until it released in theatres (although we already knew SF IJ and Destiny were returning from leaks) but I don't think they're doing that again this time.
You guys are expecting way too much from what was an OVA that got stretched into a movie. It's probably not even gonna be more than an hour long.
>>24058674Probably just a "perfect" impulse type deal, like they just slap two cannons and a sword or some shit on it along with the flight pack. It definitely won't have wol though.
>>24058656>Yeah no. Shinn's not piloting Infinite Justice.It's either him or Yzak and I doubt it's Yzak when Shinn is being set up as the film's lead
>>24058685No one is piloting Infinite Justice except Athrun. Let it go anon.
>>24058665Kira went back to piloting Strike Gundam after Freedom got trashed. Same idea here with Shinn. He'm goes back to Impulse after losing Destiny. Then he does an amazing job defeating a bunch of enemies but loses battery power at the critical moment. Then Foundation comes in and saves the day.
>>24058693Athrun is not there during the hijack. The IJ is on the Archangel (you can see it inside the AA as it's surfacing with it's new shield in the trailer) but Athrun is talking to the Archangel crew along with Shinn Luna and Yzak from a different location. He can't be piloting it if he's not there. The whole hijack seems to happen when all 4 of the leads are not around
>>24058694>Then he does an amazing job defeating a bunch of enemies The only enemy they are fighting is Strike Freedom
We know it's not Athrun piloting IJ against SF for the simple matter than Athrun would win and not require Foundation to come in and save the day. I think Anon is right, it's Shinn and Shinn does ok but gets IJ wrecked enough that it has to be overhauled into Type II.
>>24058705>We know it's not Athrun piloting IJ against SF for the simple matter than Athrun would win and not require Foundation to come in and save the day.Damn he might be right
>>24058695Anon it's called editing. Fans said the same thing about Athrun piloting Immortal Justice base solely on the movie trailer, but they were completely fooled when movie finally aired
>>24058697>The only enemy they are fighting is Strike FreedomThere is absolutely no way this is true. Fukuda would never just have one enemy. He's definitely going to throw in extra enemies to complicate things. It's probably going to be Blue Cosmos launching a rebellion.
>>24058716Again you guys are expecting too much from what is a very simple story they're dragging out.
>>24058714You are just proving anons point. The fact that people were so instant Athrun had to be piloting Immortal Justice and were wrong there means it's very likely they're also wrong that he has to piloting Infinite here. We know that Infinite Justice is going to be the big feature of the film because they're making a metal spirits for it. With Shinn being the protag and getting all the trailer focus and it's way likely he pilots it rather than them pull Destiny Impulse out of nowhere with no prerelease hype for it.
>>24058705Are you retarded or just insulting Shinn? Even if Shinn was piloting Infinite Justice (he's not), Shinn would still beat the shit out of that retarded mechanic pilot who hijacked Strike Freedom. Shinn is an incredibly strong pilot with tons of combat experience. He's not going to lose to some weak nobody hijacker. You would need to make Shinn have a crazy handicap for him to lose. Like shoving him in an M1 Astray.
Agnes should've done naked dogeza at the end of Freedom.
>>24058726People do seem to be underrating Shinn. He's not some rookie. >mechanic pilot who hijacked Strike FreedomHis name is Leonard.
>>24058726>>24058734Not really. Shinn is nothing special and isn't shown to be special.He's below Kira, Athrun and Mwu in terms of skill and pilot ability. Even Yzak I'd rank higher than him.
>>24058735>Shinn is nothing special and isn't shown to be special.Defeating the OG Freedom, single-handedly got the Minerva out of fire a number of times. Took out Destroys like they were oversized Windams. Right Shinn is not special at all.IMO, Shinn is #3 on the CE list. He clearly is above Kira. Shinn was able to dance around with four Black Knights only taking scratches while they were slowly, but methodically getting taken apart until the surekill, coup de grace at the end. While Kira struggled against Shura and was slowly getting overwhelmed by Orphee. IMO, only Athrun and Shura outclass Shinn. >>24058723I have a feeling that Gundam Freedom Zero is going to make montage to 0083. The SF jack is going to start with an unauthorized sortie and blasting out of the hanger. Shinn will impulsively board the IJ in an attempt to stop SF to no avail. Shinn will end-up getting IJ damaged and losing the Fatum-01. This is the setup for its retrofit in GSF.
>>24058775>"Defeating" the OG FreedomIn a handicap, yes. Kira won the fight many times over beforehand anyways.>He clearly is above KiralollmaoKira is #1. Shinn is nowhere near him.Shinnfags are so funny and delued.
>>24058777Nope, the Freedom and Kira lost far and square. Kira is not used to fighting an opponent with dogged and reckless determination. See Athrun back in SEED. >Kira is #1.Negative, he is clearly #4 overall. Athrun clearly outclasses Kira and Kira gets overwhelmed by Shura in both Rising Freedom and SF spec II. Athrun has to bail out Kira twice in each instance. Shinn manages to defeat Kira and to wreck the four Black Knights with an single assist with just scratches on the Destiny.
>>24058778Nice cope.Kira is #1, defeated both Athrun and Shinn and is above both in skill.
>>24043505Freedom was fucking fantastic. This has no reason to exist and cannot possibly top it.
>>24058793We'll wait and see.
>>24058735No shit. Of course, he's not gonna be portrayed as good as them. How many series are there where the protagonists aren't the best pilot? There's Code Geass and maybe SDF Macross.
>>24058775>Defeating the OG FreedomA one-off. Shinn could only do that with trickery and pre-set deployment for that one specific task, the equivalent of a speed-run.>Took out Destroys like they were oversized WindamsTo be fair, the one and only time the Destroy was actually dangerous was in Berlin. Afterwards, even Sword Impulse could take one out with ease.
>>24059006Yeah. Post-Berlin Destroys are super jobbers.
>>24059006Gundam Seed Destiny would have been so much better if Destiny Gundam had other rival mobile suits to fight besides Destroy Gundam.
>>24058735>Shinn is nothing specialHe's one of the few people in the series who has a SEED factor.
>>24059029But it had.And lost.
I can't recall, did Destiny use its boomerangs as actual blades in the show or is that just in games and such?
>>24059067It used it once against IJ ineffectively
>>24058726We already know the Black Knights have to be the ones to do it so no, Shinn is going to fail against the stolen SF
>>24059077Oh yeah, that's right.Thanks!
>>24058798Maybe you will. I already know the score.Freedom was fantastic because it felt like Seed finally finding out what it wanted to be and succeeding at it. This is Seed's final form. You can't do that twice.
>>24059094>because it felt like Seed finally finding out what it wanted to be and succeeding at it.What the fuck does that even mean? The movie was more of the exact same as before. Some parts are even worse, even.
>>24059095I'm not sure how to put it into words.
>>24059079Yeah obviously hes not going to be the one to stop the stolen Strike Freedom. But Shinn isn't going to pilot Infinite Justice to fight Strike Freedom. That's just stupid. Also this movie better have a really damn good reason how a random nobody like Leonard is able to bypass Kira's security measures and steal Strike Freedom.
>>24059139>Also this movie better have a really damn good reason how a random nobody like Leonard is able to bypass Kira's security measures and steal Strike Freedom.It's not like the days of the Archangel where the kid was sleeping in the cockpit so nobody could touch the Strike. Strike Freedom had been repaired and overhauled already.
>>24059146>Strike Freedom had been repaired and overhauled already.Has nothing to do with bypassing the cockpit security and stealing the suit.
>>24059162Foundation mole in COMPASS, likely got codes from an Accord mind read. I also think SF gets equipped with the Neutron Disruptor prototype to make it another parallel to 0083 gundamjack. It ends up getting used and this is why it gets locked down in GSF.
>>24059171>I also think SF gets equipped with the Neutron Disruptor prototype to make it another parallel to 0083 gundamjack. It ends up getting used and this is why it gets locked down in GSF.In before Fukudafaggot comes up with his bullshit again:>NOOOO!!!!!! KANTOKU-SAMA SAID DISRUPTOR ONLY WORKS WITH THE PROUD DEFENDER ATTACHED!!!! IT NEEDS TWO REACTORS!!!! CANNOT BE FIRED BY STRIKE FREEDOM ALONE!!!!!
>>24059171Thats a solid point. If the accords really used their mind reading powers on Kira to get the passwords then that works. Its just that the accord mind reading powers are so inconsistent in seed freedom.
>>24059139I don't think Kira has security measures in Strike Freedom. It's handled by people he trusts, and most if not all are Coordinators now so they'd be able to crack his Coordinator only programming block pretty easily anyway. It just so happened that the one outsider Agnes convinced them to trust happened to betray them and steal it while Kira is away.
>>24058787Wrong, Kira got defeated when Athrun got serious in SEED. Athrun would have killed Kira when it slash the Strike's cockpit but the Aegis's beam sabers were too short, so it only exposed it.>>24059006Nah, Shinn won by taking exploiting Kira's tactics. and reluctance for kill shots.
>>24059171I don't think it needs it. Strike Freedom's firepower alone makes it a devastating WMD if not for Kira deliberately not using it that way. It can lay waste to an EA base with just it's regular loadout. I think Compass just shelves it because they don't want anyone stealing that level of firepower from them again and they don't need it for their usual missions anyway
>>24059179>Nah, Shinn won by taking exploiting Kira's tactics. and reluctance for kill shots.Yes, that's literally what I meant by "trickery". Unless you knew beforehand that Kira only goes for the limbs and head, Shinn couldn't have been able to pull off his feat.
>>24059179Shinn relied heavily on Impulse's repair gimmick and having studied the original Freedom's data and patterns extensively. That's why he couldn't repeat his win with Destiny vs SF only stalemate him on Earth and be on the losing end in space until Rey took over
>>24059179>still coping
>>24059183>I think Compass just shelves it because they don't want anyone stealing that level of firepower from them again and they don't need it for their usual missions anywayAnon, I repeat myself, it wasn't "shelved". Erica had overhauled it and Destiny with new equipment and a fusion reactor (meaning it wouldn't need an NJC anymore).Why they didn't put one on Impulse as well is beyond me.
>>24059188>Kira-fag projecting this much>Doesn't like that one the biggest plot threads of GSF was the intentional deconstruction of "Jesus" Yamato.
>>24059192Which gets immediately reconstructed before the movie's over. Don't be stupid, Anon, please.
>>24059189It was shelved. They didn't plan on using it in Compass's operations which is why Erica had it to tinker with to begin with. That's why Proud Defender was originally made for Rising. . Erica says outright she was using them just to test new equipment and systems and them being available for use during the Foundation attack was a happy accident rather than having them as a deliberate thing to pull out if the enemy beat their weaker stuff.
>>24059192He's like the Reanfag. He claims to love the character yet ignores anything that doesn't match his headcanon.
>>24059194No, it completes the journey. Kira always want have to a normal life. He was grooming Shinn to be his replacement as combat pilot in COMPASS.
>>24059189>Why they didn't put one on Impulse as well is beyond me.Impulse's systems were designed to use the rechargable deutrion system. Scrapping all that for a nuclear reactor would kind of defeat the point of that system to begin with. And as anon said, they were being used as testbeds and didn't expect to have to deploy them in combat again so soon.
>>24059174If the disruptor could be used without proud defender then Kira would have used it earlier
>>24059205He'll probably come out of retirement again when the next SEED project comes out. He's like CE Goku while Athrun is his Vegeta.
>>24059194I mean the movie still kind of ends on the note of Kira not being the most powerful and best he's just happy with being that way because Lacus loves him for him and not because he's genetic perfection. Shura is still beyond Kira's abilities and since Athrun beats him so is Athrun
>>24059208The audio drama already has him talk about putting SF in the hangar beneath Malchio's place in case he needs to deploy again. He's just leaving his position as General of Compass and returning to his independent vigilante pilot roots
>>24059210>Shura is still beyond Kira's abilities and since Athrun beats him so is AthrunFukuda has said repeatedly that he believes Athrun is the strongest pilot among the big 3.
>>24059207Isn't the obstacle the authorization from Lacus?
>>24059222>Athrun goes to SEED mode, never loses>Crippled Strike and got Kira dead to rights, but ran of juice at the worse moment>Disarms a SEED mode Shinn not once but twice. The first instance Athrun was heavily injured. The second time was a complete curb stomp and Athrun jetted out of there like a boss.>SEED Athrun manages to keep the original druggie trio on their toes despite being outnumbered and outgunned.>Shura falls for the feint and gets bifurcated with extreme prejudice
>>24059372Pretty much. The only arguement against is when Savior was destroyed by Kira but that's because he basically just let him chop him up rather than risk killing him
>>24059210>>24059372>Athrunfag cope>>24059222No one listens to Fukuda.Kira is the strongest pilot with the strongest suit. Everyone knows that.
>>24059458He got his ass kicked by Shura twice in the movie. He's not the strongest anymore
And I thought Dragon Ball fans were obsessed with power levels.
>>24059372>SEED Athrun manages to keep the original druggie trio on their toes despite being outnumbered and outgunned.He and Kira could've killed those three worthless imbeciles in Orb with little effort (they had the advantage of piloting nuclear-powered MS), but the story mandated they had to stay around until the end because this shit was written by complete morons.Remember when those obnoxious Throne assholes appeared on 00? And how cool was it when Ali just murdered two of them without mercy a few episodes after they appeared?https://youtu.be/pDAqkixV6z0?t=30That is what they should've done to those three idiots in SEED. 00 didn't even give the Throne pukes the privilege of appearing for the final battle.
>>24059662>He and Kira could've killed those three worthless imbeciles in OrbThey never had the chance for a clean kill on the druggies
>>24059817There was twice when they literally got right in their face and could have given them a fatal beam saber stab but just kicked or railgunned them away.
>>24059838You need forgetting that these battles are happening super fast and it was a 3 VS 2. The druggies kept covering for each other.
>>24059843If Kira has time to come to a stop right in front of one and fire his railguns without getting shot at by the other two he had time to stab them. He just doesn't
>>24059843There's literally a scene where Justice detaches it's lifter, flies towards one of them with the saber out, flies by faking them out to have the lifter stop in front of them then the lifter moves to reveal Freedom was hiding behind it who fires it's railguns. A very cool well animated and choreographed scene especially for SEED but they literally could have killed the guy 3 times here. Athrun could have stabbed instead of faked out, Athrun could have fired the Lifters cannons close up, and Kira could have stabbed or used literally any of the guns other than the ones that wouldn't cause major damage. And this is only the most blantant times in that fight they had the opportunity for killshots or at least major damage but opted to just knock the guy down.And that ignores that all 3 battles in Orb ended with an opportunity to kill them that they didn't take. The first fight their drugs wear off and they retreat in a straight line in massive pain and Kira and Athrun just let them go rather than chase or shoot them from behind with their several powerful cannons, the second fight they use up all their power and have to retreat and again Kira and Athrun don't pursue or at least shoot them as they are leaving. And then finally when Kusanagi is launching and the trio is chasing them, Freedom and Justice finally do lock on their cannons (to which all 3 druggies make an oh shit face) only to fire at the water to make a geyser to once AGAIN just knock the 3 off balance rather than actually shoot them when they had them dead to rights. Which wouldn't destroy Forbidden but would kill the other two guys, just aim the railguns at Forbidden so it gets knocked back and can't reflect them and the cannons at the other two and they'd have killed 2 of the 3 before the final arc.At a certain point there's no justifying "Well they just had to be careful and couldn't get too close" several times they have them dead to rights, the Druggies make an oh shit face and they don't
>>24059873Forbidden Gundam would have just blocked a direct stab with its shields. The railgun trick only worked because the Justice fatum knocked Forbidden Gundam off balance just barely enough for Kira to slide in Freedom's hip mounted railguns from undernearh Forbidden's armor at a lower angle.
>>24059891>Forbidden Gundam would have just blocked a direct stab with its shields.It can't do that, it only can block ranged beams. When he blocked Justice's beam boomerang it didn't reflect and gashed both shields even with a glancing hit. A beam saber would have done that or worse. None of the beam blocking systems of CE can stop a melee beam attack. Not Forbidden, not Akatsuki (see Destiny chopping off it's arm) and not the Black Knights (who are all destroyed by some variant of close range beam attack)
>>24059882You don't seem to get it at all. No one on the Seed universe fights like you are describing, least of all Athrun. Athrun is a very methodical and analytical pilot. He never goes for a kill against other aces unless he's 100% sure, and has played out the scenario in his mind multiple times. When Athrun fights, he constantly probes the enemy and learns their strengths and weaknesses before going in for a serious strike. And usually that strike goes for slicing off a limb first to weaken them. Never the cockpit directly. Athrun slowly takes apart his enemies piece by piece until he's sure he can win. Its one big chess game for Athrun that he plays out in his head repeatedly.
>>24059898>It can't do that, it only can block ranged beamsWrong. It blocked METEOR's beam sabers. Those thick green shields are incredibly tough.
>>24059891>Forbidden Gundam would have just blocked a direct stab with its shieldsIt doesn't even need to use the shields. The giant scythe is anti-beam coated and has directly blocked beams when Forbidden Gundam blocked the Justice Gundam beam boomerang.
>>24059458>Kira is the strongest pilot with the strongest suit.Neither are true and GSF went out of its way to thoroughly deconstruct the whole "Jesus Yamato" crap. Gundam Seed Zero is going to deconstruct Shinn the angst/edgy berserker from GSD.
>>24059817>They never had the chance for a clean kill on the druggiesYes, they did. Yes, they fucking did.Blow the fuckers with beamspam right then and there while they're floating doing nothing.If the battles are "happening super fast they barely have time to fight back", why aren't they taking advantage of a literal pause on the enemy's part to kill them right then and there? What's stopping them apart from the non-diegetic logic that the story needs those three assholes around to fight until the finale?
>>24059192>Doesn't like that one the biggest plot threads of GSF was the intentional deconstruction of "Jesus" Yamato.>>24060044>Neither are true and GSF went out of its way to thoroughly deconstruct the whole "Jesus Yamato" crap.Get some new material because nobody will take a retarded buzzword like "deconstruction" seriously over here.The point of "Jesus Yamato" isn't the fact that he's the best pilot and Strike Freedom is the most powerful MS ever (which is a fact once again after it docks with the Proud Defender), but rather their hypocritical morality.Neither Kira or Lacus have any reply when Orphee and Ingrid argue that their actions are only making people keep killing each other more and more. You may not like them, but their logic is correct. And the protagonists never have an answer to the issues affecting the world at large, only to their personal hangups about "being loved".Sure, the Black Knights are automatons programmed to believe they are the epitome of humanity that cannot understand rejection or defeat, and the Destiny Plan was a bad idea. But the "good guys" don't have a solution either, other than putting out the fires when things get especially bad. It's a world fated to destroy itself. You think things won't get to worse after the Accords destroyed Eurasia's capital and threatened to enslave everyone?
>>24059458>No one listens to Fukuda.The Fukudafaggot laps up every ounce of bullshit he has ever said.I wonder what does he have to say about this.
>>24060272Stop thinking like an audience member watching the show with "extra knowledge" and actually try to THINK from the characters' perspective. It's not hard anon.Athrun and Kira don't know what's going on with the druggies. They don't know the druggies have run out of drugs and are suffering from withdrawal. From the Athrun's and Kiras perspective these machines, which are nearly a match for their own machines, were having a intense battle with them one moment but then suddenly stopped. This is extremely strange. They need to back off and observe carefully. Athrun and Kira don't want to walk into a trap where the druggie suits suddenly grab them and self-destruct for a mutual suicide attack, or something crazy like that.
>>24060575>Athrun and Kira don't know what's going on with the druggies. They don't know the druggies have run out of drugs and are suffering from withdrawal.Exactly. It's not relevant. They could've stopped because their units are overheating or malfunctioning or anything else.>one moment but then suddenly stopped. This is extremely strange. They need to back off and observe carefully.No, they need to take the opportunity and attack. You wouldn't use this bullshit "stop and wait" logic in literally any other context. >here the druggie suits suddenly grab them and self-destruct for a mutual suicide attack, or something crazy like that.And besides, they are both capable of spamming beams. You don't need to get close: shoot the fuckers from a distance. Why aren't they doing anything? It's a war: the enemy doesn't get to call for time-out.Stop making excuses for shitty writing. Kira takes less time to do his beamspam against grunts than whatever is taking them to "observe carefully". And then, they let them run away.
>>24060316Like you said, doesn't he take anything Fukuda says at face value and gets mad when no one else does?
>>24060575>>24060586The anime made it a point with Mwu telling Kira that he can't be going around hesitating in combat. Not taking the opportunity to engage three very dangerous foes (which he believes aren't Naturals) is precisely that, and unlike the Nicol situation, it makes no sense here.
>>24060597It's worse than that. He babbles about "Fukuda said this and that" and never provides a source as to when and where it was said.You can be a dumbass like me and go around on Twitter looking for those Japanese accounts that paraphrase from the fan events in huge-ass threads (or worse still, huge-ass threads on 2ch), but proving a claim ought to be your job, not anyone else's.
>>24060586>No, they need to take the opportunity and attack. You wouldn't use this bullshit "stop and wait" logic in literally any other context. Ha. Have been in a single real fight in your entire life? It clearly shows you haven't. You are like a little kid with zero life experience.If you have ever been in a fight and your opponent starts tweaking out, then you know to back up and get some distance. Especially if they start tweaking and vomiting all over the place. You don't want them to vomit on you.
>>24060607>You are like a little kid with zero life experience.Go impress someone else with your "internet tough guy" act.
>>24060604>but proving a claim ought to be your job, not anyone else'sTo be fair to the other anons thats not a debate. Its just you screaming like a retard demanding a source. Most oldfags like me know Fukuda says a lot of wacky stuff. It doesn't bother us. We dont get rage just because Fukuda made Mwu survive a Lohengrin blast or said that Athrun is the best pilot in the anime. Fukuda isnt here on /m/. So dont be cowardly f4gg0tt and hide here. Go on Twitter and insult Fukuda directly. Go vent all your frustration at the main man himself. Social media lets you do that now.
>>24060311There's no good tangible solution to the issue of war in any Gundam universe nor the real world, so why are you expecting Kira and Lacus to come up with one? The most the good guys can do without resorting to evil machiavellian methods is to try to prevent things from getting as bad as they could be by saving whatever lives they can while holding on to the hope that humanity may learn its lesson someday (which is exactly what Kira and company are doing, and is what Amuro did too). Or do you just want them to go full blackpilled like you are and let all the psychos genocide and/or enslave as many people as they can because "the world is doomed anyways and nothing matters in the end"?
>>24060607>Especially if they start tweaking and vomiting all over the place. You don't want them to vomit on you.Then there are the crazy people who are on drugs who start urinating all over the place and smear poop on with their hands and try to rush you. That's what happened to me when I took the subway in California. Homeless dude covered in brown filth and poop boarded the subway cab and tried to grab passengers. The smell made me want to throw up. Police arrived but they looked disgusted and didn't want to touch him. I ended up getting off the subway car was delayed by 1 hour while the police tried to get this drugged out filthy guy to leave.
>>24060622>There's no good tangible solution to the issue of war in any Gundam universe nor the real world, so why are you expecting Kira and Lacus to come up with one?Because it's the responsibility they themselves take. I'm judging Kira by his own parameters. He tortures himself about whether Durandal could've been right.The point is that "shooting at the problems" is not the solution: let someone else pick up the responsibility. And by that I don't mean COMPASS or anyone from his coop. It's a global problem that requires a global solution: either Naturals and Coordinators learn to coexist without the need of an elite squad acting as a nanny, or they will kill themselves just like Orphee said.>"the world is doomed anyways and nothing matters in the end"?This is literally what Fukuda did with Cross Ange, and how FREEDOM was implied to have ended before the bullshit extra "let's hide SF below the blind priest's mansion" epilogue scene.
>>24060617>To be fair to the other anons thats not a debate. Its just you screaming like a retard demanding a sourceNTA, but you guys are just as stubbornly retarded, just on the opposite end of the spectrum. A perfect example of horseshoe theory.>Most oldfags like me know Fukuda says a lot of wacky stuff. It doesn't bother us. Most oldfags believed and still believe in a bunch of bullshit made up by shitposters and mentally ill anons from back in the day, they were fucking dumb teenagers and some of them still haven't matured despite being 30+. And it absolutely bothers oldfags, the extreme seething over Fukuda and his controversial remarks has been a constant on this board for decades, that's why it's hard to believe you're actually one.
>>24060622>while holding on to the hope that humanity may learn its lesson someday (which is exactly what Kira and company are doing, and is what Amuro did too)No, that's not what Kira does. He takes the role of personally being humankind's saviour, either directly on the battlefield or as a COMPASS general.Ditto for everyone else in his group: he might trust Shinn to do a side-mission and protect the Millennium while he's busy taking on the big guys, but his opinion of humankind as a whole (and therefore the whole group's, who go with what he says, especially Murrue) is very pessimistic. In the end, it was the same group of good guys who saved the world for the third time.The comparison to Amuro is especially wrong because CCA shows us humanity's collective will converging to stop Axis. People across the Earth sphere feel the Psychoframe's resonance.Meanwhile, civilians and grunt soldiers in the CE are shown to either worship Lacus's words or become rabid supporters of genocide, with the handful of "good ones" becoming cannon fodder. The story has no respect for the common individual, as the one good country, Orb, is a monarchy that depends on the wisdom of its unelected "High Representative".
>>24060629If they can't fulfill their end goal, that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least try. You're asking them to sit by and let tons of people die when they know they have the power to at least save some of them. If you want to make any sort of positive change at all, even if it's a small one, you can't just do nothing and simply wait for things to go the way you want, because they probably won't.>This is literally what Fukuda did with Cross Ange, and how FREEDOM was implied to have ended before the bullshit extra "let's hide SF below the blind priest's mansion" epilogue sceneCross Ange and its characters have a very different mentality from what you usually find in mainline Gundam. It and SEED don't have to push the same message, because they're different kinds of stories even if they share some elements in common.
>>24060633>And it absolutely bothers oldfags, the extreme seething over Fukuda and his controversial remarks has been a constant on this board for decadesNope. The majority of us just chuckle at Fukuda and let most his comments pass. Thats how it's always been. We even make memes about his comments. Only the tiny tiny tiny minority of people like you have been keeping real hatred for Fukuda alive for 20 years.
>>24060658>If they can't fulfill their end goal, that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least try. You're asking them to sit by and let tons of people die when they know they have the power to at least save some of them.But this begs the question as to why it's the exclusive responsibility of this small group of people. Databooks say the Cosmic Era has some 15 billion people. And you are telling me that nobody else can do anything other than get killed by the turn's lunatic?Either Kira is being too hard on himself, or the joke from "Superman: Red Son" is even more important now.
>>24060272Because this is their first time fighting the Extended and they don't know the Extended have some hidden crazy trump card or will randomly self destruct. The worst type of opponent is an unpredictable one.
>>24060671Fukuda is a joke. The lolcow of anime directors (not helped by his Twitter use). The problem here is Fukudafaggot's nonsense.https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/24022899/#24036155>Fukuda is the director and writer of gundam seed. His word is law.Apart from Tomino (who has said repeatedly he left Gundam entirely to Bandai) or fucking insane bastards like Nagano, nobody else talks like this about any other anime director ever, Gundam or otherwise. I've never seen anyone combing through Ikeda or Sumizawa's statements about Wing, or Mizushima and Kuroda's on 00. Mostly because they aren't putting their metaphorical feet on their mouths on fan events, blabbering on Twitter or re-editing their anime six different times so their pet character can look better. Even Fukui knows when to shut up.I bet you couldn't name Gundam X's director without looking it up first. It's Shinji Takamatsu, who took over Wing after Ikeda was fired halfway through.
>>24060642>No, that's not what Kira does. He takes the role of personally being humankind's saviour, either directly on the battlefield or as a COMPASS general.>Ditto for everyone else in his group: he might trust Shinn to do a side-mission and protect the Millennium while he's busy taking on the big guys, but his opinion of humankind as a whole (and therefore the whole group's, who go with what he says, especially Murrue) is very pessimistic. In the end, it was the same group of good guys who saved the world for the third time.You're just interpreting Kira's character the way you want to. He has hope in humanity but he's not completely blind to the harsh reality of his setting and is also not apathetic enough to just stand by when he knows he can save lives.>CCA shows us humanity's collective will converging to stop Axis.It was the will of the people on Earth that were going to die, the Feds and some Neo Zeon soldiers who defected at that moment, but Char and some of the remaining Neo Zeon crew still wanted Axis to drop. In the end, most of humanity remained ignorant about the Axis Shock and wars kept raging on for millennia, but the point is that Amuro at least managed to do some good in that moment instead of falling for Char's doomer rhetoric and letting billions of people die just because humanity's conflicts won't stop anytime soon.
>>24060684>blabbering on Twitter or re-editing their anime six different times so their pet character can look better. Who cares. If he wants to reedit scenes or make statements on the internet then so what. Hes the director. Let him do what he wants. Hes not hurting anyone and it doesnt ruin anything for me. Im not required to watch the re-re-re-remastered version of Seed if I dont want to. No big deal.
>>24060690>He has hope in humanityHe never shows any such sentiment, and Freedom makes it clear he's very pessimistic about the world's future at large. Why else would he be mulling about the Destiny Plan? It wasn't because he believed Durandal (the guy that almost had his girlfriend killed TWICE) was himself a good person.>the Feds and some Neo Zeon soldiers who defected at that moment,>In the end, most of humanity remained ignorant about the Axis ShockNo, they did not. Even if the Federation concocted some excuse, the movie itself (on the image I posted) shows people across the planet feeling or hearing "something" when Chan's psychoframe resonates. It was way bigger than the handful of pilots present at Axis. Why would they be sending Jegans on a one-way trip?
>>24060681>Because this is their first time fighting the Extended and they don't know the Extended have some hidden crazy trump card or will randomly self destruct. The worst type of opponent is an unpredictable one.Why doesn't your argument work here? The hit on Lacus was the first time Kira faced the ASH and he had no trouble engaging them directly. And those guys, unlike the Biological CPUs, did randomly self-destruct.
>>24060700Kira and Lacus are not unaware of the ASHES. They still keep an eye on Zaft and their new machines.
>>24060671>Only the tiny tiny tiny minority of people like you have been keeping real hatred for Fukuda alive for 20 years.I'm not an anti-Fukuda autist, that's why I called both sides dumb. But it's also not a tiny minority of autists, there's way way too many posts and even whole threads hating on Fukuda's for that to be the case, which isn't surprising given that this board attracts autistic people like moths to a flame because of its subject matter.
>>24060710>Kira and Lacus are not unaware of the ASHES. They still keep an eye on Zaft and their new machines.Only Waltfeld had heard of them from his contacts back home, not Kira. Otherwise, why would he be explaining it to the others if they knew what they were?
>>24060722Kira was secretly designing Strike Freedom and working with Terminal Factory. He knows whats going on and all the latest technologies
>>24060730Wasn't Strike Freedom a design stolen from ZAFT, together with Infinite Justice, that was just tuned up for Kira in the Factory?
>>24060699>He never shows any such sentiment, and Freedom makes it clear he's very pessimistic about the world's future at large.He absolutely does, hope can waver sometimes but that doesn't mean it's not and was never there.>Why else would he be mulling about the Destiny Plan?Yeah, because a person can't have any doubts whatsoever at any point in their life, right?>No, they did not. Even if the Federation concocted some excuse, the movie itself (on the image I posted) shows people across the planet feeling or hearing "something" when Chan's psychoframe resonates. It was way bigger than the handful of pilots present at Axis. Why would they be sending Jegans on a one-way trip?Even the people who literally saw the Axis Shock didn't really know what the fuck had just happened. People didn't perform it knowingly, they just felt something as their shared hopes of the asteroid not dropping on Earth fueled the Psychoframe. Ultimately, humanity went back to fighting and killing each other not long after, completely unaware that their brief unknown moment of unity had caused an actual miracle.
>>24060747>He absolutely doesNo, he does not. Pay attention to his words to Rau and Durandal: it's always about him personally.>there's a future "I" want to protect>"I" am ready for that. "I" will fight.The opinion of the world at large doesn't enter into his calculus, just how he can shape it. Does that sound like someone optimistic about the future?The people are not even irrelevant. They don't even have a place.
>>24060722Because not everyone in the room knew what they were. >>24060732No. Kira was involved in the design process. It wasnt just handed to him.
>>24060769>No. Kira was involved in the design process. It wasnt just handed to him.Kira was involved in the development process inasmuch as tuning the machine to his style of piloting, rather than coming up with the design itself, which was developed originally by ZAFT. It and Infinite Justice are still "ZGMF" units.
>>24060773You are just wrong. Kira was heavily involved in the design process. Please get your facts straight.
>>24060672>But this begs the question as to why it's the exclusive responsibility of this small group of peopleIt's not their exclusive responsibility, they just stepped up and got pretty far in their endeavors, to the point that they reached bigger groups.>And you are telling me that nobody else can do anything other than get killed by the turn's lunatic?There were people who tried to make a difference and bridge the two groups of humanity together but didn't get very far. Also, the Atlantic Federation and PLANT did end up making an effort to establish peace.The situation is not as bad as it used to be anymore, the extremists have been reduced to fringe groups instead of effectively controlling each major faction like they used to. But even so, there's still a lot of work left to do.>Either Kira is being too hard on himselfOf course he is, he's a bleeding heart who wants world peace and prevent people from dying in wars even though that's nigh-impossible to fully achieve, nothing he does will ever be enough in his eyes.
>>24060757You're just being extremely disingenuous to make Kira look like a megalomaniac because you hate him.>The opinion of the world at large doesn't enter into his calculus, just how he can shape it. Does that sound like someone optimistic about the future?He's literally saying that he has hope in a peaceful future. He will protect it (like he protects lives), he's not going to control it.And of course he's talking in first person when his opponents are specifically trying to make him question his own ideals and break him so he can give up.
>>24060773>>24060732>>24060786That's the early lore saying Zaft made it entirely. Its very out of date and has been revised.New lore says that the early Strike Gundam incomplete blueprints were created by Zaft during the first war, but the design was canceled and left buried on Zaft archive servers. Zaft's version of Strike Freedom was just a slightly modified Freedom Gundam built for mass production. Zaft's engineers even remote Dragoons but just couldn't make it work.The Clyne Faction took those early rough drafts and deleted the them off of Zaft's archives. The design was given to Terminal where it was analyzed and then redesigned from the ground up. Kira worked with the Terminal design team to re-design the suit using the latest technologies. They added beam shields, new hyper Deuterion reactors, an internal phase shift frame, and super dragoons which were an upgrade on the old dragoon technology. Kira even specifically ordered them to remove a lot of the phase shift armor around the joints and other areas for extra agility. Kira sacrificed defense in order to gain more mobility. Terminal's Strike Freedom is pretty much a brand new suit compared to the early incomplete rough drafts that Zaft created 2 years earlier. They are not comparable.And Infinite Justice new lore is even more clear. It's a brand new suit created by Terminal to work alongside Strike Freedom. Kira personally led development of the suit based on Athrun's combat data from Justice. They even kept the same model number as the original Justice (including the ZGMF designation) even though it wasn't made by ZAFT. Kira just added a 1 to make it go from X09A to X19A to signify an upgrade. Kira wanted to support his friend.
>>24060810Please excuse my typos. I'm at work and typed this post out quickly on my lunch break while eating.
>>24060810>Zaft's version of Strike Freedom was just a slightly modified Freedom Gundam built for mass production. Zaft's engineers even remote Dragoons but just couldn't make it work.Huh. So basically Zaft made an early version of Rising Freedom Gundam but couldn't get the shield dragoons to work properly and decided to scrap the whole suit. Interesting.
>>24060834Probably for the best. Rising Freedom isn't even stronger than original Freedom. The dragoon shield seems to lack anti-beam coating and beam sabers can cut through it.
>>24060810>It's a brand new suit created by Terminal to work alongside Strike Freedom. Kira personally led development of the suit based on Athrun's combat data from Justice. They even kept the same model number as the original Justice (including the ZGMF designation) even though it wasn't made by ZAFT. Kira just added a 1 to make it go from X09A to X19A to signify an upgrade. Kira wanted to support his friend.This only makes Kira and Lacus look like even bigger assholes!They were developing a mobile suit specifically tuned for Athrun behind his back, and when it arrives to the Archangel, she emotionally manipulates him into piloting it (a scene cut with shots of Durandal manipulating Athrun into piloting Saviour, so you don't miss the implication), regardless of the fact that he's badly injured at that moment and had to be pulled out of the battle by Kira after he kicked Shinn's ass.The blow could've been softened if it had just been a second Justice built in ZAFT that Terminal just "happened to requisition from somewhere", instead of a custom job its intended pilot had no clue about.
>>24060700This scene would have been much better if he was piloting something else. Maybe something that's not nuclear powered but still a step up from his old Strike Gundam. Sort of like how Char piloted the Hyaku Shiki during Zeta Gundam.
>>24060797>The situation is not as bad as it used to be anymore,It WAS improving until the Accord assholes appeared with a plan to enslave everyone. Coordinator supremacists adore them, while Naturals would very obviously fall into Blue Cosmos's rhetoric.>and prevent people from dying in wars even though that's nigh-impossible to fully achieve, nothing he does will ever be enough in his eyes.And that's precisely the reason why people keep calling him "Jesus Yamato". It has nothing to do with powerlevels. This shit is not fucking Dragon Ball.>>24060809>He's literally saying that he has hope in a peaceful future.And then he says he doesn't think he's doing anything good for the world, and keeps mulling whether Durandal might've been right after all.It's worse than megalomania (that's a thing for Durandal or Aura). He, and the rest of his coop, do not give a damn about the common individual, or what they may think or believe.The world of the Cosmic Era does not have people wishing for peace or capable of a miracle like the Axis Shock. Naturals and Coordinators detest each other and will die killing each other. All Lacus and her brainwashed hens can do is stop a bit of the damage here or there.What hope is there in the Cosmic Era? Has anything or anyone offered even a glimmer of things getting better? Of anyone individually stepping over hate? The Endless Waltz movie had that scene with Dorothy telling people to support Relena. Even AGE had that little girl that Kio encountered that made him question his grandpa's bullshit. What does the CE have? Nothing. Nada.
>>24061124>It WAS improving until the Accord assholes appeared with a plan to enslave everyone. You act like the Foundation undid everything that was achieved instead of attempting to do so and ultimately failing.>Coordinator supremacists adore themYeah, but they're only an internal faction that tried to take control of PLANT by force and ultimately got thwarted.>while Naturals would very obviously fall into Blue Cosmos's rhetoric.You act like all Naturals are going to join Blue Cosmos because of a failed coup that fucking Coordinators themselves stopped. This was no Break the World incident, and Blue Cosmos ended up becoming a shadow of its former self in just a few years despite Break the World happening.>And that's precisely the reason why people keep calling him "Jesus Yamato". It has nothing to do with powerlevels. This shit is not fucking Dragon Ball.What's exactly wrong with that? He's an idealist who still faces the harsh realities of the world. Like how sometimes he has to kill people even though he really wishes he didn't have to.
>>24061157>You act like the Foundation undid everything that was achieved instead of attempting to do so and ultimately failing.It's not about what they achieved materially (I mean, apart from destroying two cities, including their own capital), but rather the effects of their actions in the world as a whole. Think of 9/11: the three thousand or so that died in the attack itself were a prologue for the new era of turmoil that would come in its wake.>Yeah, but they're only an internal faction that tried to take control of PLANT by force and ultimately got thwarted.Ditto what I said before. It's a matter of popular sentiment, not what this or that individual ultimately accomplished.>You act like all Naturals are going to join Blue Cosmos because of a failed coup that fucking Coordinators themselves stopped. Not "all", but if your movement, driven by fear of a very real destruction, gathers enough people, then it's a recipe for disaster. You keep thinking that the counterfeit Mighty Jack organization will be able to put out all the fires, when it's much more likely that one of the superpowers will end up with a hard anti-Coordinator government.And, again, the Coordinators blasted millions of people in a city in a matter of seconds.>This was no Break the World incident, and Blue Cosmos ended up becoming a shadow of its former self in just a few years despite Break the World happening.Blue Cosmos ought to have been purged for good after Durandal revealed the whole thing was orchestrated by Logos.Guess what? It wasn't! There's still a lot of people with guns that are still fighting for the cause.>What's exactly wrong with that? I'm replying to the numbnuts that keeps blabbering about the movie "deconstructing" that, when it literally did not.
>>24061124>And then he says he doesn't think he's doing anything good for the world, and keeps mulling whether Durandal might've been right after all.Again, having doubts sometimes doesn't mean he completely abandoned that hope or that he never had it in the first place.>The world of the Cosmic Era does not have people wishing for peace or capable of a miracle like the Axis Shock. Naturals and Coordinators detest each other and will die killing each other. All Lacus and her brainwashed hens can do is stop a bit of the damage here or there.>What hope is there in the Cosmic Era? Has anything or anyone offered even a glimmer of things getting better? Of anyone individually stepping over hate? The Endless Waltz movie had that scene with Dorothy telling people to support Relena. Even AGE had that little girl that Kio encountered that made him question his grandpa's bullshit. What does the CE have? Nothing. Nada.You're literally dismissing all of the people who listened to Lacus and made the conscious choice to strive for a peaceful future. Why are their voices invalid while those of people radicalized by extremist propaganda aren't? Blue Cosmos losing its strength is proof that a bunch of people are willing to move on from the conflict. The legitimate governments of both PLANT and the Atlantic Federation are literally working together to uphold peace now. And even before all of this, we were shown that Natural and Coordinators can actually coexist as proven by Orb.
>>24061177>Again, having doubts sometimes doesn't mean he completely abandoned that hope or that he never had it in the first place.This argument works the other way around as well, and you are too stupid to notice. The fact that Kira believed that the world could've improved doesn't mean that reality smacked him in the face.>You're literally dismissing all of the people who listened to Lacus and made the conscious choice to strive for a peaceful future>Why are their voices invalid while those of people radicalized by extremist propaganda aren't? And then the story shits on all of that when we're revealed that Lacus was literally created from the womb to manipulate people.>The legitimate governments of both PLANT and the Atlantic Federation are literally working together to uphold peace now.WERE. We do not know how or where history is going to move after the Foundation conflict. And Eurasia has every reason in the world to go against Coordinators alone. Break The World could've been excused as an accident that ZAFT tried its utmost to prevent with the Minerva's forces, but the destruction of Moscow is millions of people dead directly at the hands of Coordinators.>And even before all of this, we were shown that Natural and Coordinators can actually coexist as proven by Orb.No. Orb lost most of its Coordinators after the Earth Alliance's occupation. Yuna tells to Cagalli outright that she looks untrustworthy when she's seen with Athrun, meaning that the Attha's "coexistence" bullshit is dead.Also, you didn't reply to the gist of the argument, which is that the story gives us no reason to think the world is going to get better. Nobody from the ground down gives us any hope. The "little people" can only protest on the street, as the animation does repeatedly. But there's nobody outside of the Pure and Noble People of Orb that we are shown that has transcended from the conflict. Goddammit, there aren't even Atlantic Federation personnel in COMPASS.
Behold, a man so deluded that he literally thinks like Gundam's biggest and most blackpilled villains.
>>24061265Did you miss all the threads with people saying "Rau was right!"?Our heroes have no reply, none whatsoever, when they are challenged about this other than screaming "you're wrong!", with nothing to support it.Thing is, the writing itself shows us that they are right. A basic tenant of storytelling is "show don't tell". And all of what we're shown of the CE is chaos, death and hatred. Not a single person outside of The Mary Sue Kingdom of Orb is portrayed as moving away from the current of destruction. Even progress like Foundation's swift reconstruction was built on a foundation of lies.Again, the writing could've put the Atlantic Federation, formerly an antagonistic faction, actually working in COMPASS. Put some Windams in the operation against Blue Cosmos. Have some officers in the Millennium or providing aid. Something, anything. But the people behind it do not even make that effort, so why should I afford their pet characters the benefit of the doubt? Give us something to actually feel hope for. All of the other Gundam shows have done so before.>blackpilled And knock it off with the stupid zoomer buzzwords.
>>24061282Yeah, you must be really proud about the fact that you agree with a genocidal maniac and his heavily misguided and blind rhetoric that he used to justify his genocide attempt.
>>24061290You must be really stupid and/or young if you think "believing this person is correct in their assessment" is equal to "endorsing their heinous schemes".If you think the CE is somehow going to get better somehow, the fucking writing doesn't do anything to support that notion.
>>24061293>You must be really stupid and/or young if you think "believing this person is correct in their assessment" is equal to "endorsing their heinous schemes".I mean, you're clearly angry that the good guys are making an effort to put a stop to said schemes just because you think that they will never ever make a difference (which is literally Rau's own reasoning). Plus you and a bunch of others in those threads you mentioned are literally saying that Rau is right.>If you think the CE is somehow going to get better somehow, the fucking writing doesn't do anything to support that notion.Things did get better but you're making a bunch of assumptions to delude yourself into thinking that they'll only ever get worse as if it was an undeniable fact, which is the same mentality that Char and Rau used to justify their atrocities. If Amuro was in CE he would still hold on to the hope that humanity would change someday, he didn't need "proof" like the Axis Shock to have that hope and feel compelled to fight for a peaceful future in the first place. And it's not even like the Axis Shock led to everlasting world peace, people soon went back to killing each other as usual, but that's no reason to give up and claim that UC's humanity is a lost cause, is it? Amuro understood that it's a gradual process and there will always be setbacks, there's no need to get all impatient and act like everything's doomed just because we can't achieve world peace immediately.Kira's mentality is closer to Amuro's than yours, yours is closer to Char's.
>>24061282Rau was still not right. Even if the universe is still pretty messed up most of the specific stuff he was ranting about, most of which revolved around his own specific dark backstory (something Kira himself calls him out on) was wrong. Most people in CE are not like Al Da Flaga, lunatics obsessed with their own genetic perfection. Most people don't want to be super gene freaks like Kira, they just want to be left alone. It even turned out it was a bunch of rich arms dealers stoking the war to make profit that was the main reason things kept going to shit
>>24061093They started building it when they though Athrun had gotten waylaid somewhere returning to Orb thanks to the war breaking out (or been captured by Zaft outright) they didn't find out he'd actually joined up with Zaft until much later, although by the time IJ was complete they knew Athrun had left Zaft again anyway
>>24060672Because generally nobody cares about Joe Random in most media, only the actual characters in the story. I don't know why this is a problem people have harped on with SEED for years. It's not like say, Naruto where it never had any of the non Ninja civilians have any opinion on anything and it never bothered people there. This one guy (who can you tell is the same because they use coops and hens to describe Kira and friends) has been stuck on "But why doesn't SEED care about the no name faceless people!" for 20 years now and it's really baffling.
>>24060607If you are in a gunfight and the other person starts tweaking out you don't just stand there and watch to see if maybe they do something crazy you keep shooting them.
>>24059937Athrun also chopped in half once though. It's not invulnerable to sabers
>>24061405Not when those mobile suits could go crazy, crash, or explode on nearby allies. If you actually watch the battle and analyze it, Freedom and Justice only went for kill shots when the druggie trio were over the ocean and away from nearby Orb allies. If orb allies were nearby, Kira would kick them away or Athrun would ram them into a different direction.
>>2406142990 percent of these fights were over water with no allies nearby. Stop trying the defend this show's shitty writing you goddamned idiots
>>24061407>It's not invulnerable to sabersAre you sure? We saw Forbidden Gundam do a scythe-beam saber clash against Justice's beam saber.
>>24061469We also see Justice chop right through it a a few minutes later. It depends on the angle of the slash
>>24060311>brainlet didn't get the anvils that author threw at at the audience with GSF
