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>>65592727

/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /gq/, thread king A2Grip was reported KIA by the /arg/onauts doing mercenary action in Yemen after not being seen for months (RIP). Gilliam Arms hosted an AMA, and Trash Sniper bought plates.

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.178
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat:
/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)
Budget: Hesco L211
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: LTC 28780**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HW
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)
>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G (last ditch option)
Budget: Gilliam 1023, Protech 2014MC, or Hesco 4403*
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept Emperor
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 / Hesco-Protech 2230-1 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (7N37?)
Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)

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>>65592681 >>65592700

Pretty cool find on Taobao: Fort Technologies ACP-G plates for 900 a pair. These are used by the FSB so pretty weird seeing them in Chinese hands.

Listing roughly translates to "Russian Original Fort board, ceramic plate set, what you see is what you get, used"

>>65592670

Someone traded those for something. A trip out of the country and into hiding, perhaps?

>>65592693
Philly Trash Sniper RF1 status. Always refresh before the posting

>>65592670
They're not too shabby. 8.5lb for a 10x13 but rated for numerous hits of 7.62x54 B-32 API and M995. Also tested to stop M993. Hexagonal SiC tile array, is technically ICW. Estimated to be good for up to seven M993 if spacing is favorable and they're backed.
They were replaced by the ACP-M around 2020, which is half a pound heavier but adds 7N37 and standoff 12.7x108mm B-32 API capability. Also comes in an 11x14" "Siberian" full torso version for heavy assaults.
Odds are decent there is an "ACP-M2" rated for the newer 7N51 at this point.
>>65592681
ACP-Gs can be fairly old, around 2015 at the earliest, so the plates could have changed hands several times, kinda like how USSOCOM plates were showing up at the "Taiwanese Auction House" way back when. $900 a pair is a good price for a Colossus sidegrade.

Would be interesting to compare this to the Gilliam 8002 GEN-II, since that's claiming at least M993 defeat at 6.75lb 10x12 standalone.

>>65592693
Good to hear. That reminds me. Now that the NFA is partially dick-kicked, I think there will be a meme push for concealable PCCs and SBSs, which changes threat dynamics for soft armor.
Odds are good IMO, that at some point, NIJ will add an "HG3" rating meant for select 5.7, 7.62x25, 12 gauge 3" 1oz, and fast "street" threats like Liberty Civil.
Also need to figure out ways to prep for "ambient armor" - I think Jake Ganor is onto something with that.
>Chinatown
You know, those food delivery robots could probably push a shield...

>>65592490
>4403s keked
Fuckin' rip. I imagine 4401s are gonna have similar problems?

>>65592727
>4403s
They stop M2AP at or below NIJ requirements fine, and maintain active cert under both 0101.06 and under 0101.07 as the RF3-400. The issue is that they fail a hair over NIJ velocity. Basically zero safety margin. You can design plates to beat M2AP at 2,910 but lose at 2,950. NIJ raised M2AP velocity by a mere 30ft/s between 0101.04 and 0101.06, along with conditioning tests, showing it does make a difference.
If you're not being engaged by a dude with .300 Winmag or above M2AP reloads, you're good.
>I imagine 4401s are gonna have similar problems?
Most likely yes. It's endemic to Hesco's design philosophy, which is demonstrably:
1. Focus on reducing weight.
2. Offer at least some multi-hit.
3. Plates only need to pass the requirements.
The only Hesco Level IVs with a degree of safety margin are the 4601, 4K10 (this one is iffy since it just got reinstated after a suspension), and whatever the Protech 2230-1 is. What those have in common is that they're dual-rated III + IV plates, so they have additional backer strength.

Repeating my question from the last thread: any experience with 4 mag placards on medium plate carriers, specifically ones with tubes cummerbunds? Is there overhang, and if so, does it cause issues?

>>65593209
Don't have one, I would assume there would be some overhang but I don't think it would impede movement/tube access that much on a medium.

Shaw's Arc placard with Quad ram inserts look pretty flush.

>>65593209
I havent used tubes, but I have used a UT gear quad on an AVS, the overhang was maybe a cm on either side of the plate bag, definitely less than half an inch. If you had MBAV plate bags it might not overhang at all. I stopped using it because it made it difficult to access the ferro buckles I had, tubes would almost certainly have fixed it but I didnt have the cash for a new cummerbund setup and the extra mag wasnt really urgent. Fwiw I do think 4 mags is the future, I just didnt commit to it.

>>65593279
six mags is more the future

>>65592714
Hoping for a full kick. There is some state fuckery here that we’re not fully clear of yet. I look forward to hg3 and will have to read further. Yes for shield, plus they could deliver those delicious egg rolls. I personally think we will see a new decade of various arp formats. What caliber? Who knows.

>>65593342
Six? What about seven?

>>65593409
With NAS3 there's plenty of options. I think the AP pistol ammo ban will get sacked next. Would be a great bellwether to see how cops really stand on 2A.

>>65593410
>6-7
at that point go all out IMO. Twelve or 18 in a split rig.

>>65592714
>>65593409
>>65593432

So basically RF1 is the new bare minimum, with RF2 the new gold standard because M855 out of ARPs will be a common thing. Side plates are gonna be a must too. What a time to be alive.

>>65593726
yeah RF1 is gonna be sketch in the city. Hypothetical higher pressure M855 out of an ARP will be able to challenge them at least on a v50 basis.
I think that's what Stealth Armor Systems is trying to address with the latest iterations of DragonSkin. Lighter, enhanced coverage, no higher than RF2. I think the new B4C version is 3.4psf areal density, so that's about 2.9lb for a 10x12. Neatly 3x the weight of typical IIIA soft armor, so scale that to soft armor cuts as you please.

Think this is actually III and not mislabeled IIIA? It's 5 pounds so given that Botach's 10x12 III is 3.5 the math checks out.

https://surplus.botach.com/battle-steel-level-iii-11-x-14-ballistic-blanket-panel-new-old-stock/?

>>65593806
the label says III.

>>65593820

Yeah, but it's a soft ballistic blanket, not hard armor like virtually all other III, and it's being sold as clearance surplus. Little bit suspicious.

>>65593832
There is RF1 "soft" armor now. It's just unpressed PE and is barely flexible.
https://www.readynow-tactical.com/shop/SOFT-PERSONAL-BODY-ARMOR-RF1-Rifle-Rated-RNT-240-RF1-p694733596
Alternatively there's two other explanations:
1. The "blanket" is just a III PE plate in an 11x14 full cut. This is more probable and it's a plate, not a blanket.
2. It is actually mislabeled IIIA like you're saying. Problem is that these are from 2022 and the warranty is ten years. Warranty is still effective so it's Botach's ass if these are really only IIIA. They're not gonna risk losing the farm for ninety bucks a pop. Armor companies usually carry at least $1M in liability insurance (Highcom carries a $10M policy) but a dead guy on the skreets can be a lot more than that. I think Toyobo had to settle for almost $30M in the Zylon case.
Note that Botach waited until the warranties on the $50 Hesco 4400s and $90 4600s were all expired before selling those, because they likely had no confidence in the plates meeting spec. Once the warranty is off, you're out of luck.

>>65593279
That's actually the exact placard I was looking at, overhang that minimal shouldn't be a problem

>>65593880

Yeah, I doubt Botach has that sort of soft RF1 given that only one company seems to make it. I'm wondering if it's mislabeled soft IIIA; even so it'd make a good backer for a pasta III, make it proper RF1 since backing a pasta plate with soft IIIA stops even M855 from a 16" barrel at like 25 feet. Wonder if that works with Botach III plates too, given their obvious cheat ring even for all-PE. Might be an interesting budget RF1/RF2 "lite" solution for the streets.

>>65594038
I'd say make some straps and use it as a buckler or cheapo gunshield.
>I doubt Botach has that sort of soft RF1 given that only one company seems to make it
Eh, it's not really "soft" - it's a plate that has a slight bendability to it. Four pounds for $500 a pop RF1 is also piss poor, so they aren't using tip top materials and design. Hesco 3801 meets same requirements and is under 2lb for $525 a plate.
One thing with flexible armor is that it only bends as you move. Multi-curve plates like the 3801 already have several bends built in.

>>65594069

Interesting that low-end 0101.06 III PEs can be treated as RF1/RF2 ICW IIIAs, since adding the second layer of soft armor apparently stops shit like MSC and M855 out of carbine-length barrels. I'm actually more interested in that sort of setup since it's drop-immune and will stop even modern street threats like M855 out of ARPs.

>>65594158
I think it's just sheer amount of material. High end PE plates either use better grades of UHMWPE and focus on pure RF1 or bare III (no 7.62x39 MSC) at minimum weight (using trauma padding strategically to control BFD and reduce weight), or they go full bore and offer RF2 straight up at weight comparable to SiC-PE ceramic designs, but totally drop proof.

This does beg the question of why Gilliam doesn't offer a "Fat Helion" offering RF2 capability. Rough examples show an RF2 PE plate is about twice the weight of a counterpart RF1. Compare Hesco 3801 to Combat Systems RF2. 2.5lb Helion would be about five pounds for full RF2. That's not great but not bad at all if you really harp on ceramic drop protection. A moderate improvement on the 5.2lb DTS855 M855 rated PE plate from 2009.
PE is only a non-starter once you get to M855A1 and up. DKX tried to R&D an all-PE Level IV called the MAX IV back in 2012 but it never went anywhere.
https://defensereview.com/dkx-max-iii-and-developmental-max-iv-lightweight-multi-hitdrop-resistant-dyneema-floaty-armor-maritime-hard-armor-plates-at-shot-show-2012-video/
Rough estimates are it'd be over eight pounds and 2" thick, IMO.

>>65594206

I'm more interested in ways to turn shitty zero-overhead 0101.06 PE IIIs into proper RF1s for minimal cost, or even turn bargain basement RF1s into a kind of RF2 "lite" plate that can handle M855 at 16" barrel velocities, which is kind of the maximum hood threat unless you're raiding their fent fortresses (and if you are, you're a LEO with credentials and a BVP grant who can afford good stuff like Hesco and Protech). Think cheap-ass $100 0101.06 III plates from Longfri, Botach, Jinwudun, etc. Something easily sourced by the /pfg/ crowd on a Wendy's employee budget, but enough to keep you alive in the ghetto on a Friday night until you can get to your car. The Crips are NOT shooting at you with .338 SLAP, they've got 10.3" ARPs with dem green tips at best. You can always get some good Level IVs for when the big boys show up with M855A1, this is for getting in and out of the hood against low-tier threats.

tl;dr: More interested in turning bargain basement Chinesium budget plates into something still useful in a fairly low-AP environment.

>>65594206
Gilliam 6001 4.1 pds SA RF2... 6002 5 pds SA RF2 M855A1

>>65594355
No free lunch rule strikes again. Neither is drop immune like an all-PE RF2 plate, said all-PE plate is also buoyant, and said all-PE plate can also space shots tighter and has more multi-hit. Ceramics generally need minimum 2" spacing between hits. You get two M855 with the second closer than 2" to the first, you're cooked. Lastly, because it's basically all backer it will do magnum non-AP better like a .375 H&H or whatever. Adept's titanium-PE plate has some standoff ability versus .50 M33.
There's always ups and downs. This PE plate will get smoked by M855A1, but if that's not in the threat model, you can concede.

>>65594408

If you went full retard with money and accepted like an 7-10 pound weight and up to like 1.5" thickness, could you do some ridiculous 11x14" shooters cut titanium-PE hybrid that could tank wacky threats like multi-hit M855A1 or single M33 ball? Drop-proof assault infantry SARVIP kinda thing?

>>65594253
>I'm more interested in ways to turn shitty zero-overhead 0101.06 PE IIIs into proper RF1s for minimal cost
Well, when in doubt, back with IIIA. That fails, back it twice. Weight sucks but you can get cheap expired IIIA on ebay.
>into a kind of RF2 "lite" plate that can handle M855 at 16" barrel velocities
We need more data than a buff video or two. There's a reason why companies don't advertise reduced M855 velocities wholesale for PEs, even though an M855 v50 would be an excellent metric for comparing PE plate strength.
>which is kind of the maximum hood threat unless you're raiding their fent fortresses
A1, maybe. Worse, if legit black tip is present that's a bad situation. Get a shield and strap a plate on it.
>The Crips are NOT shooting at you with .338 SLAP
BC-8s and the eventual Palmetto Sabre Lancet .50 might change the high end a bit. $1.2k with a BC-8 (add a $200 monstrum scope because who cares lol) and M2AP reloads from some small time operation for like $5 a shot gets you in the IV-busting game for three ARPs.

>>65594436

The Crips ain't rolling smalltime passerby with M2AP, they're saving the good shit (if they have any) for major threats and protecting their fent fortresses. That's why I argue that ARP M855 is the max you're gonna face unless they've majorly got you on your radar or you roll up to their stash house with your own raid crew. If either applies to you, you're either a LEO with credential-blocked plates or should've bugged out long before.

As for M855, this is the video I'm referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrmeNtNjpNc

I think most companies don't post reduced velocity M855 as a threat metric because they don't want to be liable if shit goes south. All it takes is a couple extra inches of barrel and wew lad you've got a hole. Of course sketchy companies like AR500 and RMA don't give a shit and will put M855 on their steel plate ammo lists, with the velocity in the fine print.

>>65594253
>pfg/ crowd on a Wendy's employee
Stretch, NOBODY at Wendy's is buying armor.

>>65594472
>you roll up to their stash house with your own raid crew
Who tf is even doing this? Vivid imagination brah.

>>65594512

But if they DID, they could afford that setup. That's what I'm going for. Something even a Wendy's wagie could handle.

>>65594519

It's called a rhetorical question. How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?

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>>65594434
The new Adept Mantis already does M855A1 multi-hit at 5.2lb 10x12" shooters. Make it 11x14 shooters, you're at 6.7lb. Only thing left is to reduce standoff versus .50 BMG M33 FMJ. I believe the distance is 800 meters. You can easily cut that down to nothing with two extra pounds in the plate. It'll be costly, but I'd reckon that's what Adept might actually be going for with the Level IV "Super Mantis" which is impliedly upcoming.
>>65594472
>The Crips ain't rolling smalltime passerby with M2AP
Liable to change. IMO, M2AP is an "ambient" threat. It's out there. The guns are out there. It's just not being deployed because nobody is doing a drive by with a 26" - it'll be an assassination weapon.
>That's why I argue that ARP M855 is the max you're gonna face unless they've majorly got you on your radar or you roll up to their stash house with your own raid crew.
Likely true, but if M855+ emerges then you're basically facing M855 at "normal" velocity out of shorter barrels using NAS3 casing. I'd rather not be caught with my pants down on that.
>If either applies to you, you're either a LEO with credential-blocked plates
Credentials come in multiple levels and really most blocked plates aren't much to write home about until you get to the $3,500/set and up wizard tier. For the most part it's gonna be "Hesco, add 0.5lb to the 4601 so it stops M993!" or "Protech, gimme a IV which stops M2AP 600ft/s faster than required!" - with $$$ plates like the Hesco SC3812, rumored 3885, LTC 24855, the "real" 4801, etc exceptions.
>I think most companies don't post reduced velocity M855 as a threat metric because they don't want to be liable if shit goes south.
Hesco is very explicit the 4403 and 4800's max velocity for M2AP is 2,910ft/s, which it is, and they're not on the hook for anything if shots exceed the plate's rating.
ESAPIs have failed against out of spec threats. No liability there. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-110hhrg37812/html/CHRG-110hhrg37812.htm

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>>65594754

>>65594512
Chief you can buy ceramic plates for $90 a set shipped. They're terrible but work as a very last ditch.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1213617745
If you don't want to play the soft armor games since those are hard on ICW, Highcom AR1000 steel plates for $160 a set.
https://tacticaledgeandarmor.com/product/highcom-guardian-ar1000-level-3p-body-armor-plate/
Both of the above options are really bad and only make sense if you're dead, dead broke. Even a guy working part time at Wendy's, doing 20 hours a week / $11.45 an hour, can save up for Paraclete 10800s assuming he's on the dole for most other expenses. That's $200 a set. These are actually serviceable and compare to the Hesco 4401.
https://surplus.botach.com/point-blank-paraclete-10800-10x12-nij-level-iv-hard-armor-plates-set-police-trade/
>>65594519
NTA but he's probably doing a good ole SHTF larp.

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>>65594802

>>65594620
>But if they DID, they could afford that setup. That's what I'm going for. Something even a Wendy's wagie could handle.
I support your mission, in spite of the debating over how reliable PE is against a round that is well known for piercing PE. IMO, shouldn't be relying on just one video and one example. NIJ tests three dozen plates for a reason.
>>65594472
>Of course sketchy companies like AR500 and RMA don't give a shit and will put M855 on their steel plate ammo lists, with the velocity in the fine print.
M193. M855 is easily stopped by steel plates. Man, does anyone remember RMA's steel plate? shit backspalled so bad it had like 35mm BFD versus M80. I think it was mfg'd by Spartan and rebranded?
There's a reason why they memoryholed that one, me thinks, along with the 1145 and their pre-2013 plates back when the company was called RMA Supply. Believe it or not RMA has actually been improving, just as steel armor has been. They'll get there when digital NV gets there.

Wendy's guy needs a shield. Maybe this United Shield Kent and put that shit on PayPal Credit 12 month payment plan.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/227150018033

I'm sure it's been asked 1000 times but what's the best way to make lens and goggles anti-fog?

>>65594701

I forgot /gq/ is too autistic to understand sarcasm, especially in a rhetorical context. The idea is nobody's raiding a stash house so the worst you will catch is M855 from some wannabe's ARP because you've kept a low profile from the gangbangers with the relatively heavy ordnance. This isn't Cyberpunk, these guys normally focus more on concealment so unless you raid their shit switched Glocks and ARPs are all you need to be worried about. Anything bigger and you've deliberately put yourself in that situation, and should've brought your Level IV plates if you were gonna do that.

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>>65594754
>The year is 2027
>You look outside the window. After 500% tariffs, the world has become a fuck.
>You duck inside, hearing the quadcopter drones imported from vietnam but actually relabeled in cambodia but REALLY made in China, gotta love triangle shipping, crashing into people's hamster apartments.
>You grab your trusty turkshit shotgun, the only thing affordable in this trouble age.
>It has a v5 actually-waterproof-IP67 SMSLaser HFXC. You had to do some funky shit to get around sanctions for this one.
>You load the 15 round stick magazine with a 3D-printed extension you had to download the file for off of Usenet. rec.guns.
>Fuck gotta do it again one of the shells turned into an oval.
>You don your thermal poncho, longslide 5.7 with ultra-AP bullets made using asteroid-mined iridium carbide cores, courtesy of Martian Emperor Musk I's mining corps, and a Level IV Militech helmet.
>On top of the helmet is a pair of digital-fusion Nvg4th binos. You pop them down, each with a Vapcell N69 battery inside. 6900mah 18650. Yeah. It explodes if you look at it funny.
>You aren't looking at it funny.
>You head outside your .50 cal armored shitbox apartment door.
>The dick next door hits you with his knockoff SOTAC LA-12 GLIS.
>An entire fucking watt of green laser hits you in the eyes, blinding you permanently.
>He then nails you in the dick with iridium carbide quadrangular buckshot from Xguns, formerly twitter.
>You die.
>Should have worn a militech battle skirt.
This is how it happened. This is how Johnny Silvergrip died.

>>65594723

If it wasn't obvious, I'm Nerfanon, champion of all things /pfg/. We need a modern /bag/ equivalent of the classic $50 Chinesium digital mono, and the X-CUH ain't it given just how much IIIA softs you need to pile underneath it to work, to say nothing of its shitty no-drop, single-strike SRT status. My current rig is an AR500 IIIA plate as a strike face in front of a pasta III, according to /gq/ that's an AR500 A3 equivalent and is effectively RF1+/RF2 "lite", stopping all RF1 threats and handling M855 out of ARPs. Since Gilliam is getting out of the budget Chinesium game I'm just trying to find the next best thing you can get on a Wendy's employee-tier budget, especially since /pfg/ can't afford good shipping insurance so you know that box is gonna get frisbee'd across the warehouse hard enough to turn a Highcoom 4SUS4 into baby powder.

Protip: You can stack plate carriers if your wacky plate combo won't fit in one platebag. Brotach sells $20 rebranded VISM Discreets with fast shipping, perfect for the /pfg/ crowd since the majority of cheap Brotach copsurp plates are square and budget Amazon plate carriers only hold shooter's cut.

>>65594745

I hear Cat Crap is good. $11 on Amazon for a little container of it.

>>65594620
>How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?
I would feel the same, I never eat breakfast. But that is non sequitur. Why would you ask that?

>>65594620
>That's what I'm going for. Something even a Wendy's wagie could handle.
Just say you work at Wendy's, brah. I met an ex-biker tweeker chick there. She gave me a free mini frosty tag and Hep c.

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>>65593442
>18 in a split rig
Yeah

>>65594802
At that digital NV budget you're getting steel or very ratty third hand 20yo ceramics. There isn't going to be a clear cut option until you get to at least $200 a set. Then 10800s, 2014Gs, 10079s are on the table. Raise to $300 and you get 2518s and used Hescos, raise to $400 and you've got 4403s, T212s, and 1635s. Then the market flatlines for a bit until you get to the $800-1300 mid-grade range, flatline, then $2k and up big bucks.
>shipping insurance
This is a scam.

>>65594866

okay ranjesh

>>65595777

>dem trips

That said, I was thinking about $150-200 for a set because inflation lmao. Seems like copsurp is the only option in that price range unless you go sketch af D-grade Chinesium Aliexpress PE IIIs. I miss pasta plates being $45 a pop from Sportsman's. No free lunch indeed.

>>65596497
>copsurp
Taser brand Tasers are ~$100/ea on Aim. $10/cartridge, nerlver cheaper. The "drive stun" as a pain compliance alone is worth $100.

>>65596601

Gotta focus on armor before less lethal right now. Already got some Sabre pepper spray and a basic stun gun, $10 each, which will have to do until I get the armor ideas worked out.

why the fuck did we stop posting the fucking gear recommendations besides plates and started replacing it with ai slop bs

>>65596746
Because searching Amazon for LED lights takes longer than searching Amazon for Bluetooth speakers. When time is short and work is long, armor posting wins.

>>65596497
Gilliam also discontinued or is about to discontinue the $186 OA+ plates so those are out.
Gotta have $200 in the pot. Otherwise you get stuck with ratty ass plates and steel. If you're lucky, ESAPIs from private snowball who can't make the note on his Challenger. Then you gotta get soft armor.
They must have tightened the screws on milspec plates. Haven't seen a good pair of surp G-Js for a while.
>>65596601
>TOC to entry team, you are cleared for entry
>aaaaaaaagh
>get down or I'll put you down!
>bzt bzt bzt
>I am not in charge!!!
>old guy dies of heart attack
>entry team, you're killing civilians.
>rank: 0/100 MENACE
>>65596746
They're in the emporium and reserve.

Also a heads up, dude on Tacswap is selling Hesco L211s for just over $400 a set, M210s just over $500.
Used L210s are going for $300/set, cheapest I've seen is $280. Negotiate them down, the L210 isn't a great plate and gets blown out by basic .308 + isn't officially rated for M855A1. Classic old gen Hesco / Reed underbuilding issues.
Guys on ebay and tacswap are trying to flip RMA 1155s (old gen) for $300 a pair. That's more than they were worth new, lol. I'd say the old 1155 is better than nothing for... $100 a set.

>>65596791

Fair enough. That said, Brotach is selling a shitload of IMPAC pistol plates for like $40 a pop. Think these could be useful standalone, like a IIA metal panel, or as a strike face on top of PE IIIs? Hell, would they shore up basic bitch IIIA enough to help with X-CUH LP BFD?

>>65597160
Not really. Backed with soft armor they only pick up 12 gauge 3" 1 1/8oz slug versus standalone "special pistol threat" protection.
They're basically improvements on the old steel "trauma plates" from the 1990s, which were worn with ballistic soft to take the steam out of 12 gauge slugs. Worn when you don't want to commit to actual plates. They're still a league below actual rifle armor.

Fundamentally, a niche case can be made for wearing IIIA in front of SRTs so the plates don't get wasted on pistol ammunition. Gilliam stated at one point he was able to pierce an unspecified (probably really shit) SRT rifle plate just by double tapping it with a 9mm handgun with minimal spacing between hits. Given the issue of switched glocks, that's a potential issue.
>Hell, would they shore up basic bitch IIIA enough to help with X-CUH LP BFD?
Hard to say. If you need to kill BFD then steel behind the plate is a hard stop (absent back spall) at an expensive weight penalty. One semi-related thing worth noting is that Level IV steel plates handle .338 Lapua and other magnum rifle threats persuasively (besides spalling...) while Level IV ceramics often pop BFD 70mm-plus, which is X-CUH level. But 14lb vs 7lb? No contest.

Was watching a playthrough of Modern Warfare 4 and was laughing my ass off at SAS operators triple-stacking plates in the front. I think Gaz blew through ten plates trying to kill some cartel dudes. God damn man. Leading Technology Composites making a mint off your ass.

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>>65592479
>>All we are... is dust in the wind dude
I may printout op pic and frame from Dollar Tree tribute. We all make our choices. Make yours count.

>>65597203

Maybe this has been asked before, but what about rigid bonded aramids instead of PE? Not as tough? What's the drawback?

>>65597247
Aramid-backed plates tend to be strong in the v50 department, but PE, PE-glass, or PE-aramid hybrid can get you similar results with lower areal density. Protech was able to drop 0.7lb a plate from the rigid aramid-backed 2230 by switching to a PE-fiberglass hybrid backer in the 2230-1. Similarly, Protech dropped weight from the PSA-4C-9812 by switching the aramid backer for PE with the 9812-R1.

>>65597269

Fascinating. So hybrids aside aramids are effectively old tech and PE is the new hotness. Also, for the budget /pfg/ special...

>is botach the only option for plates on a flat $200 budget?
>so it seems, so it seems

>>65594812
I'll try it out if the stuff tomorrow doesn't work

>>65597702
Yeah, polyethylene didn't really enter body armor until the late 1990s, so aramid backers were the go to for when you needed something better than fiberglass for a while.
PE also has storage temp concerns, which were a lot worse back then, so up until about 2015 it was still common to see alumina-aramid plates in LE use. PPI 2092, TC4C, PPI / Paraclete 2518. ESAPIs were aramid backer until about REV. G, then they swapped to PE and SiC-B4C hybrid ceramic from B4C-Aramid, keeping weight same but adding M995 and raising multi-hit. PE = lower areal density, SiC-B4C = higher AD. Cancels out.

>>65598508

Okay, that makes sense, older PE is a fair bit weaker, like the pasta III plates that don't do MSC but easily handle lead core stuff. On the topic of older plates, I'm thinking the current /pfg/ loadout will be a Botach Discreet carrier with two of whatever best III or IV plates are on their copsurp website. Shouldn't be more than $230 total with shipping and handling.

>>65599046
That would be the Paraclete 10800s right now. Those Protech 2115Gs were Protech's budget model. I like the 2518s a lot better but they're old school 0101.04 and need soft.
>older PE is a fair bit weaker
Yeah, it was generally advised as late as the mid-2010s (Body Armor: The Good, the Bad, the Ugly effortpost) to avoid UHMWPE entirely, especially for soft armor:
>"Avoid Spectrashield, Spectra woven, or Dyneema: This material is based on polyethylene, the same stuff that milk jugs are made of. The armor version is referred to as Ultra High Molecular Weight Poly-Ethylene (UHMWPE). In situations where it gets hot (and most car trunks in the summer can get HOT), it will denature, reverting back to simple milk jug plastic. Armoring FAIL. I used to be a fan of this stuff until I read some great info by Kevin "Mad Dog" Mclung and Doctor Roberts ("DocGKR"), two names that you should look up and listen to. They did some eye opening tests (especially Mad Dog) on the dangers of Spectra. If the material goes over 180 F, it becomes a danger to its wearer."
So long story short, do NOT store PE plates in hot car trunks.
Granted, the above info is old school, but keep in mind even Integris continues to advise temp limitations on current PE plates.
Naturally, this also has ramifications for plates that use UHMWPE backers. My aramid backed Protech 2230s will stand long term versus a car trunk in Texas. The Adept Colossus will not (PE backer!).

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>>65599493

New updates on the Gilliam front. Congratulations to anon (>>65587240) for correctly guesstimating the 8002 GEN-II is downgraded to M993 protection at only 6.75lb / 1.15" thick. However, Gilliam appears to have taken notes from his AMA here and is developing a new plate called the 8002H.
This is much heavier at 7.75lb / 1.25", multi or single curve, and is anticipated to stop the following:
>1. 7.62x54R 7N37
>2. .300 Winmag Swiss P AP
>3. 7.62x51mm M948 SLAP
>4. 7.92x57mm SmKH
M948 defeats the Colossus on a v50 basis while SmKH and 7N37 defeat it wholesale, so this would be on a different "level" entirely versus Adept's strongest commercially available plate. A plate rated for actually modern tungsten AP is very welcome news.

>>65599372
8002L (light) is still built with slightly more substantial materials layers (but w SiC) than the Colossus. We anticipate Colossus level performance and maybe slightly better out of the 6.75 pounder (SAPI M). It may not resist 7N37 and the like --- and may not even try it depending on how many shots we can get for both tests.

8002H (Heavy) Once the chamfers are cut this plate will weigh about 7.75 pounds. Threat testing will be against much of what went through the Colossus on the Buffman test about a year ago. The 8002H has more material than the C for sure. It should do better... but how much better I don't know. It's a tile array so may perform better with the same shot spacing.

Depending on the results, we may not even pursue commercialization. We are not planning to keep working with arrays on a regular basis... but if this R&D works out, we may keep the 8002L and 8002H.

>>65599493
Good luck with the tests. I'd reckon you'll move units for sure if you can demo a plate considerably stronger than Colossus, because you'll basically have that market segment to yourself. 7N37 plates are rare outside of Russia, Scandinavia, and Ukraine. Ukraine actually got screwed a couple years back by a company called Hyperion on some (not) 7N37 rated plates, so if you get ITAR worked out then a plate like that has international appeal. Ukraine might want some. Hesco 4403 weight but potentially rated for XSAPI-killers like 7N37. That ain't bad.

How are you doing multi-curve and tile array with this layup?

That guy still has a pair of Defender 275s on Tacswap. They're B-32 API plates, not Level IV. Would make for a pretty good less-than-overt getup assuming they're in good condition. No drop pro, multi-hit sucks (it's 2x BZ API at 4" or so). It's similar to an RMA XRT but much lighter.
He's had them for two months, so lowballs are probably on the table.
https://tacswap.com/post/6a8535f9dfd67aedf262f143

>>65599129
PE used in ballistic applications is processed at 260F for several hours. Highly doubtful that the 185F or so in a car trunk would do any damage to pressed PE. IMO, more likely that the adhesives themselves would soften (used in composite PE or aramid). Use of T-Link or similar helps avoid the issue but the real weak link is the temp limits used when bonding the armor rather than the temp limits of the materials themselves (in a general sense). Good luck getting manufacturers to tell you which adhesives they are using.

>>65600652
Big difference between several hours and several weeks, months, etc. See Tencate's warranty language:
>The plate is expected to preserve its conformity with the specifications
for a period of at least 5 years during storage from the date of delivery,
provided that:
>Do not sit on the insert
>Do not drop the insert on the floor and avoid other hard shock(s)
>The product is stored under dry conditions at normal ambient
temperature
>The product is stored vertically
>Do a visual inspection of the insert every sixmonth
>The product has not been subjected to peak temperature exceeding
70°C
>In case of visual damages, send the insert
back for inspection/repair
>The product is protected against long term direct exposure to sun light
If PE plates were trunk immune then the above language, particularly ambient temp storage, wouldn't be there.

>>65600667
Didn't say they were immune. Said the real risk is the adhesives. PE is processed at 260F. Warranties are well... disclosures to defer risk from the manufacturer. Operationally, it's the adhesives. You certainly shouldn't "store" the plates in your trunk in the Summer. 70C is silly... that's just an out. Wouldn't damage the plates. Even the NIJ 0101.07 temp cycle limits are 194F (90C).

>>65600684
Well, you did.
>Highly doubtful that the 185F or so in a car trunk would do ANY (emphasis added) damage to pressed PE
The following is a major walkback from the above:
>You certainly shouldn't "store" the plates in your trunk in the Summer.
I'm inclined more to believe the only armor company with no NIJ suspensions or product recalls in forty years. Do not store plates with PE backers in car trunks. It's what DocGKR said too. Polyethylene is polyethylene. I agree adhesives are another issue, but this is one area where it's much better to be safe than sorry.

>>65592479
>Magazine
It's called a clip, sonny.

>>65600652
>Good luck getting manufacturers to tell you which adhesives they are using.
Also as a side bar to this point, good luck getting manufacturers to tell you which grades of polyethylene they're using. Adept for example is notoriously "mystery meat." After ten years they have no compliant models.
If plates are not on the NIJ CPL then they can change specifications at any time, freely. There are no less than four models calling themselves the Adept Colossus. There are material differences in construction which lend themselves to material differences in performance. White version has less BFD. Latest version has better drop pro. For another example, the Protech 2230-1 is NOT NIJ compliant. The 2230 is. The mere act of changing the green cover to black voids the original cert. The total change of backer material would do it again.
Ergo, 2230-1 was not demonstrably subjected to the NIJ conditioning protocol and therefore jury is out on the long term "storage durability" of the Glass-PE hybrid backer versus the 2230's aramid.

>>65600880
Who knows enough to make a table showing where these mfg get their ceramic? I see the stuff about PE and mystery meat but where does the hard front part come from? Let's be real and talk about the mystery meat from all the angles not just PE. I thought that was all secret for most co's. If Adept has the mystery meat PE then seems like most other cos have the mystery potatoes where ceramic is not known (that ain't a good thing either). Don't pick and choose and gripe about one part and forget about other stuff.

>>65601205
>Who knows enough to make a table showing where these mfg get their ceramic
A lot of it is either inferred or insider info, but nowadays it's overwhelmingly Bitossi, St. Gobain, Coors, or another one of the big names. Bitossi dominates for 99.7% pure Alumina.
>I see the stuff about PE and mystery meat
Because there are two big names, Dyneema and Honeywell Spectra, and each name has dozens of different grades, then you've got smaller outfits and China. Jury is out on how well the unknown PE works conditioned if it's never part of a compliant product.
Ceramic is inert and unlike PE has no risk of storage issues other than rough handling and drops.
>where does the hard front part come from
Adept plays that close to the chest, but patent timing at least on the Colossus strongly suggests a Chinese firm called Shandong Yasai for the SiC-TiB2.
Given that they haven't disclosed sourcing or gotten any products certified in ten years, the default answer is China.
Not a big deal if plates are stored at ambient and not subjected to car trunks. I Adept's partners, Gilliam and SAS, also have had no issue using chinese components.
>I thought that was all secret
No not really, they mostly all source from the same companies. That's why the RMA 1155 G2 and Hesco 4403 are so similar when sizing is controlled. Bitossi alumina face. Fiberglass backer.
>If Adept has the mystery meat PE
Would explain why they're able to deal B4C-SiC / TiB2 doped plates for less than Hesco's dealers do basic SiC-PE...
>seems like most other cos have the mystery potatoes
You do have to disclose sourcing for NIJ compliance as part of the workmanship rules. NIJ is anal about ensuring a model is identical. 0101.07 doubles down. Hesco uses Spectra. LTC uses Dyneema.
>Don't pick and choose and gripe about one part and forget about other stuff.
Because SiC-TiB2 is just as inert to car trunks as basic SiC. I didn't discuss ceramic there because it isn't temp sensitive and ergo isn't relevant.

>>65601205
and to tl;dr >>65601260, sourcing really doesn't matter if the product is NIJ compliant (as in, on the CPL) and there aren't concerns about funny sizing, cheat rings, or beyond-NIJ factors affecting performance. Example being IVs failing the Level III test. A lot do.
NIJ isn't the end all be all, but it's a bare minimum that allows you to skim doing your homework. Some companies (RMA / Adept) make it seem like a giant undertaking all the while Hesco, Slate, Highcom, and random outfits like Kim (Turkey) and Readynow had 0101.07 compliant products day one.
There are tactical reasons to avoid NIJ compliance for a product, especially if you need the model to stay secret given the CPL is a public doc, or strategic - like you're Ceradyne (rip) and only appeal to military clients. However, there's a big difference between Ceradyne and a company like RMA. RMA should have had the 1155 G2 certified day one. They dropped the ball.

>>65596746
because the /bag/ faggots decided they needed to shit up this general.

>>65601468
>waaaagh
the post

>>65601311
but can't the cermics and poly come from China on the approved list? seem to me like knowing where it comes from is actually relevant not just saying that if it is approved it doesn't matter about the source.

>>65601533

Actually yes. Longfri brings raw PE components over to the US and does the plate assembly at an American factory, and they have an NIJ certified product. Not sure what the completion percentage ratio is but all the NIJ needs is a stateside factory they can inspect and grab random test plates from. That's how Shotstop's fraud plates flew under the radar for so long, they had an official factory the NIJ inspected, but also a front company warehouse across town where uncertified F-grade Chinesium non-armor was falsely labeled as NIJ CPL armor before being shipped to LE agencies. Only reason they got caught was them ironically trying to smuggle their latest shipment into the US, and CBP found it because lmao signs of smuggling in this container, time to seize and investigate!

>>65601533
Indeed. It's a common misconception that Chinese armor cannot be certified. It can if you count sourcing and it's made CONUS like >>65601558 states. However, that requires having a legitimate US address and Adept doesn't have that either. Neither does Militech. Real reasoning IMO is to avoid being under US jurisdiction. The guy that runs Adept is originally from Hong Kong. If god forbid a plate fails then he can hop on a plane and he's gone.

>>65601533
>seem to me like knowing where it comes from is actually relevant not just saying that if it is approved it doesn't matter about the source.
Also to address the point here, the problem with mystery meat PE is that you don't know the grade, temp limit, actual strength, etc. If PE passes RF1 as proven by the NIJ CPL, then it as a baseline meets requirements and ergo the sourcing issue is moot. If it works, it works. If it can handle conditioning, it handles conditioning. Chinese or American or EU doesn't matter unless we get into the weeds of margin, areal density, BFD, and finished product weight.

>>65601664
consistency in making the stuff matters. just like an uncert plate, foreign mfg can change specs and you would not know it until a round passed through a plate man maybe your own. no thx - it really does matter where the stuff comes from. that goes for the ceramic too. you'd be surprised at how greed and chase of almighty dollar can send even good companies down the gutter

>>65601751

That's why the NIJ does regular random testing. It's not just an immediate shoot test, they condition the plates and do a full variance check as well. Weight, sizing, thickness, all that. Any variance or failure and your plates are getting suspended pending retest. Most Chinesium manufacturers can't handle that kind of QC (or any QC at all) so they don't even try. IIRC Longfri is the only Chinese company that has enough QC to maintain an active NIJ CPL listing.

What’s a good carrier for thicc ass plates? I’m talking juicy thicc

>>65601751
>foreign mfg can change specs and you would not know it until a round passed through a plate man
This is not exclusive to foreign manufacturers. Any product NOT on the CPL can change specs literally at any time. Drop of a hat. There are three "models" of RMA 1192s for example. 5.7lb, 5.9lb, 6.25lb. All plates must be identical in construction under NIJ rules. Major weight deviations like that would violate NIJ and ergo are different models. There are two Hesco 4800LVs. One SRT standalone, another needs IIIA to stop M2AP at all. There are four versions of the Adept Colossus, three Archons, two Thunders, two Emperors (the Emperor is allegedly an improved N1, but IMO N1 > Emps), I could go on. Again, not on CPL = specs can change at any time. If it's on the CPL, you're locked in.

Big problem with NIJ is that they at most run FITs once a year unless something's abnormal. Very easy for bad batches to slip and that's why rep matters too. See Hesco's six FIT failures. But at least with NIJ regular testing is done.
>>65601779
As much as we talk fondly of Militech, it is good to keep in mind they could easily just be sending great plates to guys like Buffman and sending the rest of us dogshit. RMA could be doing the same thing. In fact, one anon's 1155 failed to two 7.62x51mm Tulammo when Buff's stopped several M2AP. QC shit the bed is my guess, although Buff's was 0.2lb heavier than advertised... ditto for his RMA 1192s being 10oz overweight.
Remember, only a SMALL fraction of total plates on the market are actually tested. Highcom sold roughly over 20,000 4SAS4s. I believe no more than twenty were shot in third party results. Very, very easy for people to be running shit plates and not know it. Is why we shit on RMA / Highcom when those are reddit's house brands.
>>65601911
Define juicy thicc. 1.2" or are we talking Adept Colossus + Adept Bulletfoam 1.7"?

>>65601936
1.3-5 range. This would include pads. Like I said, double moon and twice on Sunday thicc.

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>>65601956

>>65601936
The kind of thicc that says “these aren’t plates. I broke my back and have to wear this brace” thicc

>>65601942
My TT vest can do 1.4" (2230 + Armor Express IIIA backers) but requires man-assing esp with the front platebag since it goes in from the side.
What plate exactly, however? If you run CAPs you attach those pads outside the platebag so that doesn't go into fitment issues at all.
Maybe reach out to Adept and ask how they want people to use Bulletfoam with Emperor or Colossus.
>>65601946
Does actually beg the question of how Adept wants people to run 1.7" thick bulletfoam setups...

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>>65602055

>>65601956
I hear it’s a pretty exclusive plate line. You might not have heard of it. These might even be limited edition you could say. Some might say they’re even signed by Gilliam himself. They’re just the Helion rf1’s. I really just need to get the tt and be done with it. They should clear. I’ve currently been mesmerized by trash bag pgn-60’s though. Go birds!

>>65601972
Yeah they're thick but budget RF1 at 2.5lb a pop ain't bad. Pound lighter than LON-III-Ps.
In other news. It has now been nearly three months and Adept's pages on the new Mantis and Bulletfoam are 404s.
Never seen an armor product blunder a launch that bad. Let alone two. On the other hand, Buffman will be testing the Adept Emperor soonish. Will have to see how it does versus the 11 year old Hescuh 4800, especially given the 4800 has no headroom.
Damn industry is just slow as hell these days because everybody's broke.

Also Botach has more $75 Ceradyne BA3A IIIA helmets in. I believe these are now nerfanon approved.
https://surplus.botach.com/3m-ceradyne-ba3a-ballistic-helmet-pasgt-cut-nij-level-iiia-police-trade/

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>>65602086

>Kaiser Trenchworks eBay is gone
Damn shame, I hope he’s just taking a break.

>>65602082
bro probably ragequit because he got INAD returned on and lost all his money because they shipped him back a rock

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>>65602098 >>65602111 >>65604366

>>65602086
Did someone actually do that to him? In my opinion he made the best chest rigs you can get for less than $100.

>>65602094
It came to me in a dream

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>>65602105

>>65602098
It’s now canon.

>>65602102
>me trying to find hard specs on $5,000 Ceradyne SAEC super plates

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>>65602137

>>65602094
wepr goes hard

how to shit in full kit

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>>65602136 >>65602145 >>65602157

>>65602115
tactical nappy

>>65602128
>>65602115
tactical skirt and just freeball it.

>>65602111
It’s such a nice rifle to shoot. It’s a VEPR II that Krebs got ahold of. It has a Galil style selector on the left side.

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>>65602215

>>65602137
RIP big nigga, he made so much cool shit
>>65602128
>powerful , beautiful Ashkenazi chad lords over his hideous, chud Mizrahi subordinates

>>65602128
Guy all the way on the right looks like the kinda dude who gets his AR500 plates repo'd by Sezzle for not making 12 easy payments

>>65602145
Indeed he did. Russia should have paid him to design the AK12, it would have been magical.

>>65592479
>!NmwoimY-kl7
Pls define?

>>65596746
I will warn you now, I have real, actual 3d gear incoming...

amazon lost my package
amazon lost me the boog

>>65602329
>for want of an amazon pkg, a horse shoe was lost...
Or something like that.

>>65602344
I BOUGHT TACTICAL SOCKS
AND DARIUS LLST THEM
TWO HOUS AWAE

>>65602347
Make to look it up. My version actually includes a knight, battle and kingdom, but we.

>For want of a nail" is aproverb, having numerous >variations over several centuries, reminding that >seemingly unimportant acts or omissions can >have grave andunforeseen
>consequencesthrough adomino effect.

>PoetGeorge Herbertincluded it in a 1640 >collection of aphorisms as "For want of a naile
>the shoe is lost, for want of a shoe the horse is
>lost, for want of a horse the rider is lost."
>[1]Benjamin Franklin, in his 1758Poor Richard's >Almanack, recorded a longer version:

>For want of a nail the shoe was lost;
>for want of a shoe the horse was lost;
>and for want of a horse the rider was lost,
>being overtaken and slain by the enemy,
>all for want of care about a horse-shoe nail.

I need some inspiration from the NVG gurus

I have a 10 year old dash-GPS unit, which I want to modify to use with night vision
I have driven a bit with night vision, and I'm mostly missing a way to see how fast I'm driving; I can't look at my dash cluster, because I can't find out a simple way to turn its lighting off, so I just stuff sweater or shirt into it to cover it up. The maps and navigation are just an extra at this point. Luckily I can show the GPS speed by itself.

Is there some foil filter that I can apply like a screenprotector that filters out all light except IR, or does the backlight not produce any IR? Can I replace the backlight easily with IR leds?
Any other solution to this? The only other idea I can come up with is an arduino with GPS and some Text-to-speech board or MP3 board to communicate the GPS speed through speech.

(no my shitbox does not have cruise control)

>>65602361
benjamin franklin bounced a check to pizza hut

>>65602055
They are freaking awesome.now I just gotta get the carrier soon enough. I look forward to buffman’s tests. I think he even did one for pr57 barrel length but I may be hallucinating. Also highly recommend that gun. I think I forgot to post my findings about it… same with the Chinese laser.

>>65603979
The Helions? I laughed out loud when I got my first set of PE plates in (Tencates). They are comically light if you're used to typical ceramic. Three Helions are the same weight as one Protech 2230 (2.5x3 = 7.5). Four Hesco 3801s (best commercially available PE plate) are the same weight as one 2230.
You can run front, back, sides, and a second set of Helions as 10x12 jumbo dickflaps and still come in lighter than a pair of 2230s. On the other hand, the 2230 can stop threats which will pierce the Helion twice if not three times over. So, there's a time and a place for RF1, RF2, and for RF3. There does need to be an HG3 and RF4, IMO.
>I look forward to buffman’s tests
Nobody get your hopes up. I will be pleased if the Emperor matches the 4800. Adept was very explicit it's a "true IV" and cannot be expected to stop M995 and other tungsten SCHV, so it is not overbuilt in most senses.

Also on the topic of PE plates, an outfit from Germany called Turtle Armoring Solutions does have an M855 rated PE plate lighter than the 4lb Combat Systems RF2. It's called the TAS-Light.
Advertised 3.74lb and 26mm thick for a 10x13. Make it 10x12 and you're at 3.45lb, lighter than a LON-III-P by a hair.

No free lunch rule applies, of course.
https://turtle-armoring.de/products/tas-light
They also have a ceramic tile array Swiss P AP rated PM12+ plate which has a cheat ring and a PM7+ M855A1 rated SRT plate too, which picks up M80 if backed with appropriate soft armor.

>>65604177
Gilliam stopped M855 at 28mm PE I think last year. Buffman channel comments says it can be done but without foam the M80 back face bubble is like 50mm+ that would make the damn plate 2" thick. Looking at the Buffman YT looks like the good ol Chinese mystery meat PE too. Watch out for these man they are dangerous to take a chance on.

>>65604322
>No free lunch rule applies, of course
Indeed, hence the above provision. I am really not impressed with their PM-12+ plate and how it did mid as shit even when Buffman did best of seven.
>Gilliam stopped M855 at 28mm PE I think last year
You have a test report / velocity handy for this? I'm intrigued because that's similar thickness to Helion but obviously higher areal density and cost. PRIME was able to do it with a 1.3" mystery meat solution.
>but without foam the M80 back face bubble is like 50mm
Pretty shit, but that's a pass under current military VTP standard, which has a BFS max of 58mm versus NIJ 44mm. Trauma pad it.
>Looking at the Buffman YT looks like the good ol Chinese mystery meat PE
Not killer but not great. Gotta keep cost down somehow.
>Watch out for these man they are dangerous to take a chance on
Curious how a Jinwudun version would math out if we wanted RF2 PE on the poorhouse budget.

There is 100% a market for RF2 PE plates. Gotta find the options that math out and test best.

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>>65604510

>>65602094
Update: I messaged him, he’s just stopped making them temporarily.

In a side note, does anyone make a decent chest rig in any Type 07 patterns?

Body Armor News published part 1 of their research roundup, covering new R&D efforts. Of particular note are mechanophore-doped UHMWPE which exhibits better energy absorption and plasma-treated boron carbide, along wjth some improvements to everyone's favorite workhorse ceramic, Aluminum Oxide.
https://bodyarmornews.com/2026-body-armor-research-roundup-part-1/
This goes beyond the scope of the article, but I do think between that mechanophore stuff and C/SiC ceramic the stage is being set for reliable, relatively workable weight .50 BMG AP-rated plates. We'll reach the point where there's a massive gap between civilian and military armor, seemingly where future milspec plates weigh seven pounds and stop multiple .50 AP and civilian plates are fundamentally limited to incrementally better current materials. Police plates will be somewhere in the middle.

>>65604366
Chinese pattern so china makes them

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>>65609614

>>65604510
I'll show you some chinese pattern.

I have come to the conclusion, now that Gilliam is largely getting out of the chinese materials game, we might have to adopt Jinwudun as the budget house brand.
Gilliam can be fruity pebbles.
Jinwudun the 40lb bag of pebbles fruit.

>>65604177
I am assuming these are likely credential locked. I may be able to barter with a cheesesteak over the phone.
>zwei Teller für cheesesteak bitte
PE plates are a favorite. Go/do better birds!

>>65605970
Seems so. Might as well go full bore with the LTC 24855 fresh off the truck at that rate.
For those unaware, LTC has an all-PE plate rated to stop M855 called the 24855. Very heavily credential blocked, supposed to actually be quite good, but is made to military or SOCOM specs and is not RF2, so expect high BFD.
SOCOM is also allegedly evaluating a one pound 7.62x39 MSC only PE plate and there is a ULWSAPI under development which should be similar. Would be real handy in the city provided M855 can be ruled out (dicey).

>>65605970
Botach has over 70 6x9" trauma pad inserts. I'm seeing Second Chance K-30s, IMPACT-STs, and more. Total gamble but if you wanna gamble...
https://surplus.botach.com/assorted-soft-body-9x6-armor-trauma-pad-insert-police-trade/
Also they have "ballistic" helmets with riot face shields for $69 a pop.
https://surplus.botach.com/ballistic-helmet-level-iiia-w-full-face-shield-model-fs40-police-trade/

And United Shield "IIIA" helmets for $50 a pop. That's cheap as hell from Cuhtach.
https://surplus.botach.com/united-shield-mid-cut-pasgt-ballistic-helmet-level-iiia-police-trade/

>>65606413

Don't those trauma pad inserts have effectively zero ballistic protection, unless you hit the jackpot and get a K-30 or IMPAC from the grab bag?

>>65606548
Mixed bag. It's gonna be trauma, any ballistic rating (could be anything, I through "IIIB"), or something interesting like a K-30 or IMPAC which puts you in select sorta kinda "IIIA+" territory.

>>65606597

If there's any left in 2 weeks, I might bite. Until I'm sure the major PHP exploits are mostly fixed (small business please understand lmao) I wouldn't use any non-Amazon/MS ecommerce platform or even put my PII into an online form.

Still, stacking these behind a plate would be interesting. If you get ballistic ones, you could make a ghetto spall cover for a steel plate, or shore up thinner 0101.06 PE IIIs.

>>65606697
Use a temp card. Botach's Poverty Deals(tm) move quick.
>steel plate
eugh, just had a debate with a guy who was saying steel plates stop M855 and therefore will stop M193, because M855 is RF2 and M193 is RF1.
Steel makes sense for four things.
1. Absolute last ditch plates or technical high multi-hit steel-PE.
2. Shields.
3. Helmets, but only for specific applications - ex Warmag NP550 IIIB helmet.
4. Structural or vehicular armor.

Just had a thought.
1. Buffman was able to secure an M993 stop with an LTC 28595 backed by IIIA at just over 2,800ft/s. Round pierced and was caught by IIIA soft. One round also went through, so the rough v50 is ~2,800ft/s, which is reasonable for a B4C B-32 API plate.
2. Buffman was able to secure a 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP stop on an XSAPI by backing with IIIA. Same thing, round penetrated the plate but was caught by the soft armor.
3. In 1998, RUAG tested a Level IV plate against M993 and Swiss P AP. Backing with two IIIA panels took M993 down from 150 meter standoff pen to nothing. Swiss P AP from 350 meter to 150 meter.

There is merit in backing standalone plates with soft armor for edge situations.

>>65606787

Yeah, I remember that thread. I was talking about steel-PE hybrids and spall bags for his steel. Also I think that deal's been going on for a while and hasn't moved worth shit, unlikely for it to sell out in a week or two.

>>65606975
Oh good, I was worried one of our own was actually advocating for purely steel plates outside of last ditch or compromise concealment applications.
Steel-PEs are fine. They mog ceramic in durability and raw multi-hit, and enjoy high recs from DocGKR and others. I group plates into 4-5 estates, personally.
1. Steel, the first estate, because it's the most common for civ armor CONUS and makes up the majority of "street" plates.
2. Ceramic, because it's the most common for people who at least kinda know what they're doing.
3. PE. The ultralight gang.
4. Steel-PE and Titanium-PE are the fourth estate. People sleep on these because the benefits are technical.
5. Hypothetical fifth estate would be what the /bag/ OGs called "metalloceramic" plates. Ceramic up front, titanium or PE intermediate layer, PE backer. Examples are Hyperion's shit plates, some experimental B4C-Ti-PE Granit plates, a B4C-Ti-PE RF3 in Adept's secret catalog, and an experimental high multi hit ceramic-steel-PE IV from Tactical Scorpion.
There is a distinction between steel or titanium crack arrestors, which don't count here, and steel or titanium backup strike faces. Hyperion's plates will function at DSTU-2 or 3 levels if the ceramic is completely gone, similar to how Gilliam's 6001 will continue to function as HG2 if the strike face is gone, and the 8002 G2 tentatively has an RF1 rated backer.
>steel-PE
The AR500 + Italian combos, I assume. That's fine. An ersatz AMI TAC3S.
>and spall bags for his steel
I do kinda like those guard dog ones. Actually, we do sleep on Guard Dog a lot.
>Also I think that deal's been going on for a while and hasn't moved worth shit
Because trash sniper hasn't GAMBLED. Bro has a real opportunity at some Level IVA (IYKYK) Tetranike bullshit if he's real lucky.

>>65607030
>Ceramic up front, titanium or PE intermediate layer
Meant titanium or steel intermediate layer, whoops

>>65606809

There's also that Youtuber that got lower-velocity M855 protection by backing an Italian pasta III neck protector with some random soft IIIA. I wouldn't bet on it against anything faster than ARP velocity M855, but it worked.

>>65607030

Yeah, I've got an AR500 IIIA up front and a pasta PE III behind it. At least it makes it a true RF1 with MSC protection, maybe RF2 minus against ARP or even 16" barrel velocity M855. Full spec M855 will be a problem but the average banger don't got a 20", at best it's a stolen PSA 16" M4gery hip fired with more bravado than aim.

That said the reason I brought up spall bags was that anon seemed wedded to his steel purchase. At the least I could steer him into not getting slashed up by spalling, maybe get him a bag with added trauma pads to mitigate BFD since he appeared to have bought TacScorp's shittiest steel.

>>65607236
Yeah, it's pretty evident that you can "bail out" plates against moderately superior threats if you just run IIIA behind them.
If needed, double IIIA will also work (Armor Depot or if you're ass to wall Armor Dog on ebay) and will net additional headroom. Just keep in mind you're basically adding a pound for every IIIA backer. For example, a Hesco 4601 double backed by IIIA is probably over eight pounds. Will it stop M993? Likely, but there are much lighter options which do the same thing. I'd much rather look into add on strike faces, example being an Adept Disruptor in front of Adept Colossus to shore it up versus threats like 7N37. That's fundamentally a lot more efficient.
Basically backing standalone plates is going to be an emergency measure.
>seemed wedded to his steel purchase
Mostly because the guys he talked to before said bad info in favor of ceramic. Steel plates with a good spall coating do generally do their job, sans spall, for a few hits. With the guard dog bags they've got a lot more margin, so that was a good call.
>since he appeared to have bought TacScorp's shittiest steel.
Yeah, well, he did buy them for exercise and for competition purposes.

Someone call Nerfanon. Chinese outfit GT Guard is selling digital pocket monoculars for $46 a pop shipped.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/407308172387?
>LEGALIZE POVERTY "NIGHT VISION"

>>65607387

Nerfanon here, already looking at them. Definitely not a "thermal" like the upper item description, it's just another digital 850nm IR NVD. Amazon has similar models for $30 now, so it's actually overpriced. Also, some pictures show an IR emitter under the lens, and others just show a textured plastic face. Either a bunch of the images are AI or something else is fucky here.

tl;dr: Digital NV with AI product images and cheaper options on Amazon. Nothing special.

>>65607411
If a similar model is $30 on amazon it must be even cheaper bulk from mfg.

>>65607429

Lowest I've seen digital NV monos is $14.55 on Temu, with middling reviews. There's a point where you can get too cheap, even with digitals.

>>65575191
Just an update on this they just gave me a tracking number a few hours ago so current ship times are around a month in case people are curious on Jinwudun shipping.

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>>65602296
>I have real, actual 3d gear incoming
It's in, but you don't rate. Damn you armor fags, damn you all to hel!

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>>65608036 >>65608160

>>65606413
I’ve got my eye on those 3M Ceradyne BA3A‘s. Why? I’m not sure. I’d have to give it the usual fluff n’ dust and it could be that becomes general use and my chopped ach be solely dedicated to nvg. I still want to make the sensory deprivation drone helmet.
>k-30’s
What’s my gambling risk on these?

>>65607030
Possible double tap. What am I gambling on this time? I have not had my daily dose of caffeine so I might have missed the bid. Go birds!

>>65607282
I think that if you're really that concerned, you save enough weight with pure pe plates to wear a full set of soft armor underneath your carrier, and pick up more coverage as well.

>>65608002
I bought 2 BA3A's (Did high cut mod on one and other has IIIA visor) from Botach a couple weeks apart in september and both were mint condition. Like never even put on someone's head condition.

>>65592479
Does anyone know how many slots of pic rail the Streamlight TLR-1 HP-X uses? I want to mount it to my shotgun and I need to buy an MLOK to pic rail adapter

>>65607503
Indeed. Goes to show however that you can't run around with the illuminator on. If the tech is no more expensive than a Mcdonalds order then it must be assumed everybody has it or can have it.
>>65607723
I got a hunch they'll be the go-to for poverty plates. I saw one of their ceramic tile array IVs defeated no less than twenty basic 7.62x51mm, because, ya know, tile array.
If you're willing to accept a cheat ring (you can buy full coverage if you want) and sketchy M2AP velocity (they only say 2,800ft/s, not 2,910ft/s) then it seems their plates are serviceable. Helmets still seem sketch. Their shields are cheap but decently specced, and they have... unique soft armor.
>>65608002
BA3As are pretty dead nuts. They also have United Shields for less, but I'm curious as to why. >>65606428
>k-30
Back it with any second chance soft armor and it'll do the following:
>US .30 Carbine and all other .30 Carbine commercial soft point ammunition. 12ga rifled slugs. 44 Magnum Carbine (18-inch barrel). 9mm KTW and other Steel Jacketed Armor Piercing rounds.
So it's a high IIIB bridging gap between pistol and rifle. Steel, so not much can go bad.
>>65608023
Yeah but vest cut double IIIA is gonna flex like shit.

>>65608100
NOT ARMOR RELATED!

>>65608100
>The Streamlight ProTac Rail Mount HP-X Pro features an integrated rail clamp that attaches directly to a MIL-STD-1913 (Picatinny) rail and typically spans approximately 3 to 4 Picatinny slots on the firearm's handguard or rail.

Brotach also has four Protech 702MT IIIA+ visors, adding multi hit versus the 702M and protection versus 7.62x25 steel jacket. $170
https://surplus.botach.com/protech-702mt-ballistic-face-shield-nij-level-iiia-multi-hit-tokarev-police-trade/

Adept Armor is cock-teasing again.
https://www.ade.pt/ceramic-armor-materials-survey/#ceram-src-154
>Doped and boron-rich boron carbide (P2-CA-06, P2-CA-07): Small additions of silicon or a higher boron-to-carbon ratio modify the atomic chains between the B12 and B11C icosahedra that make up boron carbide’s crystal structure. This change mitigates amorphization at high pressure without significantly increasing density. A fully amorphization-resistant doped boron carbide has not yet been developed, but it doesn’t need to be fully resistant for use in body armor — it only needs to resist amorphization up to ~30GPa to defeat the tungsten-cored AP rounds in service today. (I’ll be writing another post about this soon.)
Boron enriched boron carbide was supposedly Ceradyne's secret sauce in their highest-end plates like the 96034, enabling M993 defeat in the sub-5.5lb range. That was over a decade ago and the tech hasn't been followed since.
I know Adept is working on a more tungsten-resistant follow on to Emperor. If they're bringing back enriched BC then feasibly a five pound standalone M993 plate is on the table. It'l be costly.
Also they're still trying to figure out Polycrystalline Diamond. This would be the follow on to enriched BC.
>Polycrystalline diamond, diamond-SiC, and various cBN composites are dense, generally much denser than boron carbide, but they also have superlative mechanical properties: Extreme hardness, extreme strength, and remarkable toughness. How to best utilize them and manufacture them is an open question in 2026, but diamond engineering is advancing at a remarkable pace, so I expect a meaningful update within the next few years.

The day of the sub-4lb Level IV may soon be upon us.

>>65608036
It is tempting. Do I need it? No. Do I want it with goggles and etc? Yes. Hoping mine comes mint if I do end up sniping that deal.
>>65608160
That’s what sketches me on the United shields. K30’s seem nice but I’ll have to figure out a use for them. I don’t think Philly has a surplus of 30 carbine but you never know out here

>>65608160

Big think, I can't remember if we went over this, but would a K-30 or IMPAC have any standalone protection? Say I found one in the street and suddenly got ambushed by a bunch of Crip wannabes with stolen Glock fotays (rusty Hi-Point C9380s so not even 9mm) and a rusty .22 rifle. Would it do anything at all against those lesser threats? Maybe backed by styrofoam from a nearby trash can as a ghetto trauma pad?

Thinking a foam-backed one might be useful as a backpack panel in very low-threat areas.

>>65608705
>but would a K-30 or IMPAC have any standalone protection?
The K-30 is a bit technical but yes, definitely. It works with ANY Second Chance soft armor panel, and it was made at a time when Level I was still a thing (it's 0101.03, old school). It only needs soft armor if threats impact perpendicularly (weird quirk) and cause some flavor of back spall or fragments piercing, and for BFD purposes. Otherwise it's over four pounds for a 10x12. Wouldn't call it efficient but it'll definitely stop a lot of stuff standalone if it only needs weak ass Level I to meet its IIIA+ threats.
>IMPAC
Depends on the model. CT, DT, HT, ST all have different versions and capabilities. Some are steel and actually descended directly from the K-30 (Safariland acquired Second Chance after the whole Zylon shitshow), others are fiberglass or aramid and/or PE. It depends. Correctional unless it's dual rated ain't ballistic.
>rusty Hi-Point C9380s so not even 9mm) and a rusty .22 rifle
You're looking at sub-IIA threats, you're good unless it's some correctional IMPAC stab panels.
>Thinking a foam-backed one might be useful as a backpack panel in very low-threat areas
I'd want something larger for a backpack panel. This guy on Ebay has IIIA 11x17s for $60 a pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/236914963595
OFC, depends on size of backpack.
>>65608664
>That’s what sketches me on the United shields
I don't know why Botach is significantly undercutting the BA3As with them. United Shield is a good brand but maybe they know something we don't. They sure sold those expired Hesco 4600s for $180 a set quick...
>I don’t think Philly has a surplus of 30 carbine
It's de facto "IIIB" - will also do 12 gauge slug and select actual AP or metal piercing 9x19mm, so liberty 50gr and other vest poppers won't be a problem. Everybody knows Liberty Civil etc makes short work of basic by the book IIIA. Again, however, the K-30s are a lot heavier than soft. Might as well roll actual plates.

>>65608847

So a good rule of thumb for all these surp inserts is that K-30 is a solid IIA+/borderline II standalone, while IMPAC ballistic resistance ranges from K-30 tier to lol lmao even depending on exact model. Sounds about right?

>>65608951
Would require testing on K-30 because of the whole perpendicular penetration / back spall thing, but that's a fair rough estimate. It's likely the more energetic / faster threats which induce back spalling.
>while IMPAC ballistic resistance ranges from K-30 tier
There are also rifle rated IMPAC-RTs, so much higher than K-30.
>to lol lmao even depending on exact model.
Yeah the spike plates ain't stopping a whole lot ballistically.

>>65608971

Okay, good deal. I'm wondering if slapping some of the tougher trauma pads behind would help with the back spall/fragments, or if you need actual soft armor. Also, I don't think Brotach has any IMPAC-RTs for sale, although that is possible given their grab bag status. They do have IMPAC-HTs and STs available for direct purchase at $30 and $35 respectively, which is cheaper than even their super budget "hard" IIIA plates, and likely a lot more trustworthy too. Wonder if duct taping a couple together with a slight overlap like lamellar would make a reasonable daypack panel for IIA/II tier threats. I'd put more trust in even old Safariland before Brotach's Battle Steel or any Ebay Chinesium supplier.

>>65609057
You'll need actual soft armor, not trauma pads. Even Level I (.38 Special / .22LR) is a lot more stiff than 10mm foam.
I'm not really a fan of skirting ICW requirements. It's a trend in some circles to do that, especially with SAPI family or LTC's various III/IV dual rated plates.
People think that the III/IVs meet III standalone, IV when ICW IIIA, because they fail to understand NIJ is a non-linear standard. IIIs fail the IV test, IVs fail the six hit III test. Those plates need soft to do both.
Similarly, if the K-30s or whatever say they need soft, just use the soft. They're not asking for a whole lot with Level I.
>They do have IMPAC-HTs and STs available for direct purchase at $30 and $35 respectively
One intended use is that the special threat pockets on Safariland and Protech deltoids can fit up to the 7x8s. Much cheaper than using LTC / Hoplite's shoulder plates if you want IIIA+ or rifle deltoid.
>Wonder if duct taping a couple together with a slight overlap like lamellar would make a reasonable daypack panel for IIA/II tier threats
Just keep in mind these things aren't that big.

>>65609094

I'm just wondering if you could recycle these into some sort of IIA standalone armor for the ultra /pfg/ crowd, maybe lamellar-taped in a kid-sized daypack panel or as ghetto speed plates in a duct tape "carrier" under a thin jacket. That or use the hard ones as MSC/M855 strike faces for PE RF1/IIIs like the Italian pasta plates, if you put them diagonally their curves seem to match those plates.

Padding a couple of K-30s or steel IMPACs with IMPAC ballistic softs (or hard fiberglass, PE, etc) might be an interesting exercise. Extreme ghetto speed plate at under $40 each.

>>65609139
For last ditch, consider the recycled expired soft armor from Armor Dog on ebay for bottom dollar. $50 shipped for two 6x8s.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/261623784622
Alternatively the armor depot fresh uncovered aramid IIIA, but figure out a waterproofing solution for that.
For what it's worth, K47 + K30 + soft gets you M2AP and normal .458 Winmag, so there is merit to using the K30 with other hard armor.

Unpinning thread.

rma sucks

>>65609160
Yeah, this shit is trash now.

damn it is slow here these days
did Highcoom ever release the 4s20m, or is it vapor?

>>65609160
>>65609174
Somebody doesn't like the nerfanon / salad snack poverty armor theorycrafting.
That said there's no traction on high end armor either. I noticed my post about Adept's new in dev stuff got no (you)s.
We're in a slump, economy isn't great, and nothing is really going on so there's no horde of panic buyers like in 2020.
>>65609182
Whole armor industry is slow these days.
>did Highcoom ever release the 4s20m, or is it vapor?
I got no answer when I reached out, so my assumption is that the 4S20M / 3S22M / 4S21M are released but they're credential blocked. Protech 2240 esque situation.
Worth keeping in mind the Hesco 4800, the 4S20M's competitor, was credential blocked by Reed until after the Hesco acquisition. FBI apparently had first dibs for a year or two.

>>65609182
New info though, Highcom just dropped a vid on the 3S22M. It is RF2, positively buoyant, 3.6lb SAPI M and 3.2lb for the shooters cut. Prediction that it is the 3811 competitor was on the money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KMn5YAXbwk
Interestingly same weight SAPI M as the Hesco 3811, which is NOT positively buoyant, but it is 0.2lb lighter shooters than the 3811. Ergo, it's likely the usual 9.5x11.5" and not true 10x12. 3811 is certified Level III, 3S22M is working on RF2 cert. 3S22M floats by virtue of foam padding and has a trauma pad, 3811 has better multi hit. Sidegrades.
Price on the 3S22M is $2,400 a pair shooters, $2,580 SAPI M.
https://tacticaldefenseandsecurity.com/products/multicurve_small_arms_protective_insert_m

This is a good sign for the 4S20M / 4S21M.

Why are y'all so obsessed with armor?
There's so many other types of gear to consider.
I've already some level IVs that I'm happy with, I want to see this sort of autistic minmaxing on medical gear or drones or home security

>>65609373
I can only speak for myself. It's because the industry is shady as hell and it is very easy to make a bad call or get screwed. Also it is hyper-technical and can be debated to no end.
>I've already some level IVs that I'm happy with
What are you rolling? Could have been some flavor of III+ or IV+ instead. See what I mean?
>I want to see this sort of autistic minmaxing on medical gear or drones or home security
Agreed, honestly. Home security is an underrated topic. You won't have time to get your carrier and helmet on at 2:00 AM if your front door is easily breached and they bum rush your bedroom. Why I'm a proponent of ballistic shields (they're faster to grab and cover a lot more than a PC). I have a twenty year old RBR IIIA shield. Really need to get a rifle one, should have gotten a 1936P from Botach when I had the chance... ah well.

>>65609373
>>65609400

Nerfanon here. I also like the low end of NV but nobody seems to talk about it much. There's a lot more cheap NV available since I made my guides in 2022, but a lot less variety. For example, you used to be able to get legit very low-end Gen 1 analog for $100 but they were all Russian tubes so the war killed those off, now everything under $300 is some flavor of Chinese digital or very low-end thermal. If you're getting Chinese digitals you might as well play around in the $50 range since you're not getting much different until you hit $200 or so, and even then it's just "premium" digitals like the NVG10. Might as well seek out a used SiOnyx on Ebay and at least have some very limited passive capability.

>>65609519
I will be dabbling into cheap and Chinese options soon. I still think a set of photonis (while not exactly budget, but limited) would be baller for Philly.
>>65609373
What specifically do you want to know? Armor is involved in alles und this is gut man. Regarding drone, I will have the Philly special finalized and drawn up soon. It’s a modular spigot for rifle grenades

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>>65610574

Check it, dudebro on reddit got a previously unknown Ceradyne model. Introducing the... Defender 600, aka the 96457! It's just a Defender, so unlikely it's anything real special.
For context, Defender was Ceradyne's mid-range to mid-high-range lineup. The Defender 500 (96455) was 6.6lb standalone IV. Defender 550 (96554) was improved and the weight was 6lb SAPI M. There was also, in 2012, a higher end Defender 275 which some of y'all probably know, 4.25lb swimmer, single strike B-32 API.
Interestingly, the Defender 500 and this new 600 are from 2009. The 550 is from 2012. Ergo, odds are decent there's a Defender 650 which is a better version of this 600.
I have no other specs on the Defender 600. Not gonna lie, haven't seen this one before. I am noticing the model number similarity to the 500, so odds are decent this is a higher end IV. Maybe a gapfiller between the D500 and the GEN-III SOCOM 92547 (the infamous delaminating plate that cost Ceradyne their SOCOM contracts), which was over a pound lighter at ~5.3lb SAPI M.

>>65609565

The old super poor option used to be the Nerf Modulus but those are secondhand now and stupidly expensive. Used to be $25 new on Amazon, now $60 used on Ebay. If you're really REALLY poor, the new last ditch option is the $30 no-name Chinesium digital mono on Amazon, basically a last-gen IR-sensitive camcorder squeezed into a small handheld format with an 850nm IR illuminator. Fairly meh quality and almost useless against anyone with analog NV, but in the hood you're the one eyed man in the land of the blind since Taquaanjavious isn't running Gen anything.

By comparison, Gen 2 or 3 (or even higher-end Gen 1) analog NV is amazing, even when up against SiOnyx. But be warned, analog is bright light sensitive/vulnerable unless equipped with autogating or other built-in bright light protections. Don't buy some expensive astronomy NV tube (which ditches protections for increased clarity/FOM) and be surprised when street light-tier illumination burns it out in minutes. One of the few benefits of digital NV is that it's immune to bright light damage unless you stare directly into the sun or something equally stupid. Also, a lot of the older, cheaper Gen 1 analogs on the secondhand/Ebay market are both Russian and have zero bright light protections. It might be a dead paperweight, depending on whether the idiots turned it on in a well-lit room, like Goodwill or other thrift shops apparently do to all their donated NVDs. Be forewarned.

I can expand further if you want.

tl;dr: If you're gonna buy analog like Photonis, get something with autogating and bright light cutoffs unless you want it to have a lifetime of mere minutes before it turns into a paperweight on you. For everything else, get a cheap digital.

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>>65609622

>>65609606
That guy has a signal jammer cuh. If bro >>65609373 wants to talk about them we have an infographic.
>>65604747

>>65609614

I don't see any nods in that pic. Homie put all his points into a burglar jammer and not something that lets him see in the dark.

That said light-polluted urban environments are a near-perfect fit for a SiOnyx Aurora of some flavor. Digital so no bright light issues, actual (limited) passive capability, compact enough for helmet mounting, and so on. Ebay has a few in the $200-400 range, although I suspect you'll need new batteries.

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>>65609725

>>65609622
Yeah I'm not gonna lie, assuming that's the cheapest Shenzhen model, that's $270 down the drain. Couldn't spend thirty bucks on a digi mono?
These jammers are relatively weak and struggle unless you do it how the cartel dudes do it and everyone on a kill team has one. Also obviously useless versus wired cameras, landlines, a radio with enough ass to burn through the jamming, anything outside the jammer's coverage, etc.

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>>65609646

Also probably a good time to bust out the battery infographic if we're talking digi NV, because upgrading to a Vapcell N41 is basically free money versus a 2600mAh generic 18650, if your unit takes those, for example. Digi NV runtime ain't super awesome especially versus analog.
Also good to keep in mind that batteries act differently at different drain rates. The N41 is NOT good at high discharge applications. If you're blasting the illuminator then runtime will drop, probably.

>>65609631

Also note that according to /nvg/'s best minds it's somewhat dangerous to use rechargeables in analog NV due to voltage float. Yours may work fine with them, but another's tubes might blat instantly and become a paperweight. Use at your own risk.

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>>65609646
One limited advantage in favor of digital then. Enables more battery standardization if you're heavily invested in... lithium ion autism.
>pic unrelated. State of Indian Armor.

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Also a small meme brand called Esquire Tactical on insta apparently has the Highcom 4S20M in stock and ready to go if anyone feels like gambling $2k+ on plates. Going rate from Tactical Defense is $2,258 a set, but out of stock. I don't know if Esquire will credential block. Maybe wait a month to see if other vendors show the goods.
The 4S20M is basically supposed to be an actually NIJ-certified, also DEA Protocol compliant counterpart to the Hesco 4800, which is $2,160 a pair (Verrett's has best price, Sierra is overcharging like a mofo by a grand) and Adept Emperor at just under $3,000. Emperor is lightest at 4.55lb legit 10x12, Hesco 4800 4.9lb, 4S20M is somewhere around those numbers but should be more stout given the dual NIJ/DEA compliance. They're clearly trying to set the 4S20M up as the go-to "federal agent" plate. Problem is the 4S20M is not going to be legitimate 10x12, probably 9.5x11.5, so don't be surprised if it comes out 4.5lb or less for a "10x12."

I don't know how the 4S21M shapes up versus the 4S20M, but judging by 3S22M versus 3S21M, it'll be an even higher end model above the 4800 / 4S20M.

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Pic rel is the DEA hard armor protocol pattern for reference.
Note the shot-to-edge distance is 1" versus NIJ 2" and shot-to-shot spacing is a controlled 2" rather than NIJ's 2" MINIMUM.

>>65609628

Judging by the pic I assume they're hitting some rich normie's place with its IoT wireless security system, lack of landline, and so forth. Unarmed rich normies panic when they get home invaded, doubly so if their iToddler i2077 can't get signal to call 911 with. For that sort of high-value/low-risk (at least from armed defenders) raid a single burglar jammer makes sense, jam the security system/cell phones and they're invincible long enough to grab and GTFO.

My response if I hear shit outside and suddenly can't get signal? Chamber the greentips, cowabunga it is.

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>>65609816

>>65609725
I think it's just a social media flex by CJNG. Seven dudes in a party van, at least three jammers. 5.11 stickers still on goggles. Issue is that a single basic jammer, if you trust Shenzhen's numbers, deals one watt on each band. Won't even be reliable versus a cell phone outside of close quarters. With three jammers you have better odds.
There is merit in tactical... landlines? Also I'm pretty sure situations like this are what the Leixin UV-25D handheld radio was made for. 45W on VHF is a lot more than a 1W per band, 14 band jammer can deal.

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Well, shit, armor autism prediction skills are on the ball lately.
>BEAR WITNESS.
>TO
>THE
>HIGHCOM
>4S21M. ABOVE THE 4S20M.

It is 4.1lb, multi-hit Level IV / RF3. Yeah, 4.1lb. I'm gonna say that again. 4.1lb. Yep. 4.1lb. On paper, the lightest Level IV / RF3 plate there ever was.
Assuming it's a classic Highcum 9.5x11.5 and not true 10x12, I'm getting 4.5lb "true" 10x12 and 4.7lb SAPI M. For an expressly multi-hit RF3? That's impressive. Gonna be an expensive son of a bitch given the 4S20M is $2,258 a pair, but if it comes in $3k a pair or less it's tentatively got the single strike Adept Emperor dead to rights.

>>65609737

Sorry I meant the Detroit image, not the cartel hit squad. Those guys are just jamming someone's WiFi-dependent IoT "security system" and iTurd 2001. You only really need one jammer for that, especially since the rich normies who go for that sort of setup don't have guns.

On that note my place no longer has a proper landline because AT&T is retarded and is switching everyone to wireless VoIP and cellular only. Bumps in the night and no cell signal? Get your M855, it's cowabunga time.

>>65609816
I'm thinking crew served weapon at the top of the stairs. Hit up Botach for a shield. Tripod mount that shit.

>>65609606
I treasure my Omni, but digital has a lot of promise in my opinion. Mercy of the refresh and the batteries situation can be worked around albeit with some more weight. That being said, imagine a decent pair of photonis in a tanto setup. It’s been a while since I’ve gone shopping, but that seemed to be the shit last I checked the window. Pros and cons there but with the surplus of ambient light most places have, I lean towards the pros outweighing the cons. Digital by itself, especially cheap digital is still fantastic. Hell even Gen 1’s and 2’s aren’t horrific by most standards either.
>>65609816
I raise: m855 out of 24” barrel or t6b (ss190 cope)

>>65609893
I raise sticking IR lights all over the place so digitals aren't hurting for flood. They just hit a wall faster than analog in very low light apps, because digital does not amplify, it just detects.
>I raise: m855 out of 24” barrel or t6b (ss190 cope)
I raise shoot them in the dick because you know damn well some home invaders have armor. Rifle rated groin armor isn't common yet. It'll be a minute before it is.

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>>65609912

Make a fucking armor general goddamn

>>65609910
This is the armor general

So it seems like the whole Highcum 4SAS4 debacle was a hail mary to fund R&D for these three turbo plates (3S22M, 4S20M, 4S21M) which will deliver Highcom out of penny stock status through aggressive fed and state level contracts. Hm, well played.
Curious how Hesco will retaliate given the 4800 is the same damn plate it was back in 2015 and is really starting to show its age.

>entire thread is just poor fags discussing digital NV and Chinese body armor
this general sucks and needs to be trashed every time it spawns

>>65610038
Ah, somebody doesn't like new developments.
>Chinese body armor
>Highcom
>Hesco
>Protech
>Safariland
>Second Chance
somebody is bitching about a general he's not even skimming. good lord.

>>65610042
literally touch grass. What's your bill time? hits?

>>65610047
>touch grass, says the guy who is demanding a general on a mongolian basketweaving forum not exist because it upsets him
lol

>>65609893
>>65609904

Nerfanon here, digitals are indeed a surprisingly good bargain basement choice. At the very least you can usually turn off or block your own IR emissions, and use it to passively detect nearby IR sources like security cams and even some spy cams. A lot of pervert-grade micronized spy cams have shitty NV modes, and from what I've seen they use active IR illuminators. Find out if you've been spied on, or if the local pervert's got an eye inside your place. Also, note that lower-Gen analog NV has trouble seeing longer IR wavelengths. I've seen some cheap Russian Gen 1s fail to detect 940nm, for example. A digital can see it all up into the higher 900s and SiOnyx devices can see even into the low 1000s, so they have a small edge against lower-grade analogs in that sense.

One last note: Thermals are getting insanely cheaper by the day. I've seen 240x240 25 Hz refresh handheld devices on Amazon for less than $100. I paid $400 a few years ago for my Infiray mono with similar specs.

>>65610053
Nerfanon, you are in a very chinese period of your life and live in >>65610038's head rent free. How does it feel to be a squatter?
>passively detect nearby IR sources like security cams and even some spy cams
True, otherwise 940nm is mostly invisible.
>I've seen 240x240 25 Hz refresh handheld devices on Amazon for less than $100
Damn, you got a link? That's superb for budget bracket.

>>65610064

I'm Nerfanon, the original /pfg/ researcher of Chinesium NVDs. When am I not in a Chinese period? That said 940nm is absolutely useful if what you're looking at can't see it themselves, like if they have lower-Gen analog or just Mark 1 eyeballs. If anything digital NV is a good IR detector, and at $30 on Amazon you really have no reason not to get one for that alone, either turn off its own IR or tape a cardboard square over the emitter.

Also, here's some links for those thermals:
https://www.amazon.com/Resolution-Handheld-Infrared-Shutdown-VectorPoint/dp/B0GSZ5DTCV
https://www.amazon.com/REVASRI-Thermal-Android-Resolution-Compatible/dp/B0FJF8TV87

>>65610086
huh, thanks. Someone should jailbreak firmware on the cheap digital NVs so we can run the second one you linked through USB-C as ghetto fusion.
Digital NV will make a lot more headway when fusion units go down in price. You don't need IR flood if you have FLIR.

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/federal-judge-rules-that-new-yorks-body-armor-ban-violates-second-amendment/amp/
NY body armor ban is almost cooked

>>65609605
Update on this, they're 5.375lb a piece. Weight strongly suggests it's a commercial counterpart to the 92547. Not bad, if it taps and torques.

Has anyone tried the Tasmanian tiger slick (LP MKII)? It looks interesting, but I worry it’s just a Vietnamese slickster.

>>65610578
Haven't tried it here, looks better than a condor spectre though for sure.

>>65610585
I might give it a go. Hoping to get either it or the armor vest in the mail by EOD. That and some 5.7. I don’t think I’ve mentioned how much I love the pr57 and p90 enough.

>>65610744
You're gonna love them some more if the fed AP ban gets knocked out, which is possible given the NY body armor ban is getting KO'd. History, text, and tradition has no ban on either. It follows that if armor is "arms" under 2A protected by HT&T then the ability to pierce armor is no less protected.
Commercially available tungsten 5.7 is gonna fuck RF1 plates in the ass.

>>65610761
Depleted uranium 5.7 from ground down fiesta ware when

>>65610822
When people wanna pay for it.

We got a new poverty pony plate. Hudsongunner has sets of Level IV Highcom 4S17 single curves for $140 a set. Both 8x10 and 10x12. The 10x12 is really 9.5x11.5 so keep that in mind. This is the single curve counterpart to the 4S17M. He has "MANY" sets available.
https://tacswap.com/post/68253d60ad08104afb221e29
Honestly this is pretty good for bottom dollar. Competes effectively with the $200 paraclete 10800s Botach has.

>>65610761
>fuck RF1 plates in the ass
>puttin the queer in /gq/
Never fails, homo.

>>65611061
The only actual conclusion is that RF1 plates are worn by people who accept they will be penetrated.

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>>65612191

Can anyone recommend a speed reload pouch for AK magazines?

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>>65612248

>>65611938
Unobtainium gear sleds-k

Also gcode scorpions

>open thread because questions about multiple pieces of gear
>OOPS ALL ARMOR
holy gay

>>65612191
I’ll give the sleds a shot
>>65612219
Yeah, one retard derailed an entire general.

It’s that special time of month again. Anon comes back to bitch about armor general. Offers no contributions to thread. This is supposed to be new and organic complaining.

>>65612279
I still think it's some armor vendor or company rep we collectively pissed off at some point.
Yeah, this is de facto armor general. I'd like it if we had autists in other areas but the first aid autist from a few threads back got hit by a truck or something. We've got armor out the ass and then a digi NV guy. Gotta expand the roster.

>>65612295
Rma strikes back? No specialty here, yet. Plans are in motion. First things first I need to settle on a carrier for these helions. I just need to buy the damn TT vest. Every reference copy I see has abysmal plate positioning though. Like one guy had it somewhat nice in the front with a 1 ft droop in the rear. Mepc could be nice with a slick back…

>>65612219
>questions about multiple pieces of gear
Ask away then
>>65612279
Ngl this bread is pretty ass even for /bag/ standards. Too much poorfaggotry

>>65612311
It's a project vest. Stick with something simpler if you're not a DIY kinda guy.
>Rma strikes back?
For what it's worth, this is the one place where RMA doesn't have a guy on payroll running interference as "community rep." We're it. Attempts were made back when the 1155 and 1165 were launched but they were easily parried, because we knew the nominal sizing bullshittery already from Highcom's playbook.
IMO, think they just wrote this place off and are waiting for us to dip. Depending on how that Buffalo lawsuit goes RMA might actually shit the bed first.
I don't want them to lose but frankly I don't care anymore since NY's body armor ban is going bye bye, so precedent is weak.
>>65612312
>Ngl this bread is pretty ass even for /bag/ standards. Too much poorfaggotry
It's funny. Old school /bag/ was about ultra rare, ultra high end plates. No chinesium. Hard rule. New school /bag/ is about chinamaxxing, surplusmaxxing, and raw value to dollar. Different people, different time, different ideas.
I tried to elevate things with talk of the Highcom 4S20M and 4S21M, but crickets! Not just here, other groups don't give a shit either.
It's not 2020-2023 boog season anymore. People are not spending $3-5k on a pair of plates. People are looking at Hesco, RMA, budget Highcom, Gilliam, Militech.
People are just trying to stretch dollars. Yeah, that's poorfaggotry, but it's s sign of the times.

>>65612343
I don’t mind it in concept (flc like) but looking at alternatives. A lot of slicks are tailored for the ultra thin plates which makes sense, but PE is that exception where the weight makes it tempting to throw into a slick or otherwise basic bag.
>guccimaxxing
I suspect the season will change closer to 2028, but very dependent on other factors too. I’d like to drop a couple grand on ultra thin pe, but still gotta pay rent and balance other initiatives.

>>65612295
>>65612279
>digi NV
fucking poor faggots. you got actual people with actual NV and shit and you listen to retarded opinions of people that buy literal NERF night vision. pathetic as fuck.

This thread is the same 3 people yapping back and forth about Chinese body armor. fucking wow. Lol. about what id expect from a basket weaving forum.

>>65612373
I keep an ESAPI in a work bag, lol. I hear you there.
>I suspect the season will change closer to 2028, but very dependent on other factors too
I think a lot of it is that the boog season encouraged high rollers who weren't into gear, the "yeah this is my second M82 and third Desert Eagle" types, into gear. If you can throw 10k on a spare .50 cal you can spend 5k on plates from Apex.
The lack of familiarity with armor would explain why Midwest, Hoplite, and Apex were able to sling an outdated B-32 API plate (LTC 28590) as a $4.5-5k a set Hesco 4800 killer and still get buyers.
If we get another "boog season" in 28 then this should repeat, assuming those same guys don't just sit it out.
>I’d like to drop a couple grand on ultra thin pe
Don't just yet. PE is moving very quickly and is resulting in major weight reductions. Odds are good by 28 there will be RF1 PE plates in the 1.2-1.6lb range and under 1" thick. SOCOM will probably have a sub-1lb 7.62x39 LC plate.
>but still gotta pay rent and balance other initiatives.
Yeah that's a problem...

>>65612388
nerfanon continues to live in your head rent free. I'll allow him to defend the digital NV position.
>about Chinese body armor
Let me get the list from yesterday.
>Highcom
>Hesco
>Protech
>Safariland
>Second Chance
Not one of which is Chinese. Adept and Gilliam? Different story by the looks of things, but they serve specific purposes. Jinwudun is total Chinese but they've got interesting options.

You're on the losing side of the Chinese armor problem. Only people who hate it are strict NIJ-adherents and guys who are losing market share to Chinese plates which perform better. PE > Fiberglass. Test reports and informal YT testing shows the Chinese can make good product.
I have a challenge for you. Find a new Level IV plate which is lighter than the partially chinese Gilliam 1635, under $400 a set, and doesn't play sizing or cheat ring games.

>>65612413
You misunderstand the issue. Talking about cheap gear is not the issue. Derailing the gear thread to have conversations with yourself about things that nobody gives a fuck about is the problem.

>>65612423
>conversations with yourself
You can't even keep it consistent, lol. Went from three guys to just me. Is this schizo general?
>Talking about cheap gear is not the issue
Chinese gear?
>about things that nobody gives a fuck about is the problem.
for you.

>>65612426
You’re talking to multiple different people.

>>65612429
Oh it's the "multiple people" schizo from two threads back. Yes, multiple people with the same grievance show up to an especially slow armor general at the same time.
At this point in the script, I will now enter from stage left and tell you that if you wanna talk about something else, YOU CAN.

New topic time. I want a collapsing pry bar but I do not feel like spending $675.
https://kiwibreaching.com/products/bushido-tactical-collapsible-breaching-pry-bar
Where's a cheapo version of this?

>>65612388
I think you miss the point of digital. No one is saying it’s better than traditional tubes. The point is that it will get you 40-60% (generous range) of the way there at a fraction of the cost and this includes broad application and not just “I want to strap something to my head.” That’s where it shines. That’s it. Don’t overthink it. There are quick developments in digital and so it’s silly to dismiss it. Pros and cons to this shit. Nerf’s point about the average person not dabbling in this stuff is mostly true, so if its all you’ve got it’s better than nothing. The coin flip is when that application actually becomes more useful than just using a flashlight like normal people do. Nerf could probably elaborate on that, but given the choice everyone wants the diamond, but only has currently got nickels to pay for it. Another analogy, you want that good artisan loaf bread with the seeds n shit, but you only got a wonder bread budget. With wonder bread, you still got bread and that is better than no bread.

>>65612446
tl;dr of this guy's post, no free lunch. Digital is a cheap solution and gets you cheap results. It's like running steel plates versus nice ceramics or PEs.
Still beats nothing when used correctly.

>>65612496
Didn’t want to steal your thunder on the catchphrase. I could expounded further on certain cases where photonis might not be so bad (see above or last thread), sionyx use cases, etc, but I figured one wall of text was enough of a start. Go fuckin birds

>>65612446
>>65612496

Nerfanon here. The reason I originally bought the Nerf Modulus and all the low-level stuff was because everyone else in /nvg/ was an expert in the upper tiers of the NV market, all the good stuff like whether white phos was better than green for Gen 3 stuff, which builders did a good job with potting their tubes, what IR lasers to buy for duals, etc... But nobody, NOBODY had ever taken a real good look at the bottom of the market or experimented with the offerings there. There was a whole wide undiscovered country of no data at all for stuff under $200, and hell, I had a little disposable income so I decided to be that guy and take the plunge for SCIENCE. What I learned and shared with /nvg/ changed a lot of people's thinking, that even the humblest, shittiest digital or lowest FOM Russian Gen 1 tube has some good use cases, mostly for training, hunting, and light security. Nobody's debating that Gen 2/3 and high-res thermals are far, FAR superior, but even the low end stuff has a role to play, especially if you're not expecting adversarial NV. Hell, if nothing else the low end stuff is good as loaners for people you don't trust to not drop your good tubes.

With the extinction of Russian Gen 1 tubes and the emergence of low-tier thermals under $100, the budget NV landscape has changed yet again. Things are in flux. Stay tuned.

>>65612547
>everyone else in /nvg/ was an expert in the upper tiers of the NV market, all the good stuff like whether white phos was better than green for Gen 3 stuff, which builders did a good job with potting their tubes, what IR lasers to buy for duals, etc... But nobody, NOBODY had ever taken a real good look at the bottom of the market or experimented with the offerings there. There was a whole wide undiscovered country of no data at all for stuff under $200
And now all those people are gone. Digital NV is what remains. Unfortunately gear is mostly "solved" so people aren't talking shop about things they already talked about.
Only niche uncharted waters can drive continued discussion. Plates, armor, shields, weird utility gear like jammers, digital NV. This is evident by the fact /gq/ is still standing but /nvg/ is dead, and that /arg/ is basically a shitpost chat in the absence of A2.
>Hell, if nothing else the low end stuff is good as loaners for people you don't trust to not drop your good tubes.
Lol my steel plate analogy is on point.
>With the extinction of Russian Gen 1 tubes and the emergence of low-tier thermals under $100, the budget NV landscape has changed yet again. Things are in flux. Stay tuned.
I really think people are gonna buy that stuff and we'll have to assume everyone has them. If ARPs and AR12 turkshit blasters are on tap in the city, pocket thermals are too.
>>65612505
It is a good catchphrase, but it isn't mine. It came from armor autists before.

>>65610092
>>65613346

Update: The new crop of budget 25 Hz thermals use TSIR upscaling. They're still the shitty 32x32, 64x64, and 96x96 sensors from the old $100 specials that everyone justly ignored because lmao got anymore of them pixels, just TSIR upscaled onscreen so they don't look like a pixel hunt anymore. Jury's still out whether this is a true upgrade or just cosmetic, considering the actual sensor resolution (and possibly actual longwave detection performance) is still quite low. Keep this in mind when deciding between them and a more expensive thermal with a true resolution of 256x192 or something.

tl;dr: New cheapo thermals still have shitty low-end sensors but use TSIR to upscale the displayed image. Possible NO FREE LUNCH situation if the actual detector performance is still low.

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>>65613767 >>65613827

>>65612442
can't find one with a flat head though

>>65610086
at what range could these handhelds pick up a body on a cool night?

>>65613718
>almost 20" of leverage on a 36 dollar tool
Don't do this. For the love of god do not do this

>>65613718
>>65613767
god damn that's sketch. I almost want to buy one though. Can we get a collapsible chinese halligan or rip-and-ram? Endless possibilities.
>>65613560
No free lunch confirmed. Seems that's true for more than just armor.
>>65613738
That's not important. What is important is the range you can identify a body as a body. This shit is gonna look like scrambled cable porn from 1991.

Food for thought. Adept kinda screwed up the timing on the Emperor 4.55lb Level IV given it's now sandwiched between the sub-5lb Highcom 4S20M at $~2k and the 4.1lb 4S21M at probably $~3k. They should have released it earlier. On paper the 4S21M kills it.
Maybe sell an Emperor LV with the drop pro and trauma pad yanked? That puts you at 4.3lb and well under an inch. Almost Ceradyne SAEC weight.

Would anyone like to take a bet on whether the Highcom 4S21M has drop protection? I'm going to wager no.

Also an FYI - RMA has a new SRT plate that should be releasing around black friday. May or may not be a "GEN2" ESRT.

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>>65614370

>>65613827
>This shit is gonna look like scrambled cable porn from 1991
if I can spot a boob, or what I think might be a boob, thats all I need

>>65613915
food for thought. this thread is ass.

>>65614209
hi RMA. Did you figure out how to use a ruler yet?

>>65614201
this guy did the spice channel community jerk sesh

I only come here to shitpost now that grip is rip.

>>65614549
If he had Jinwudun he might have been alright.
Unrelated, decision in the Buffalo shooting civil case involving 4chan, discord, RMA, etc should be coming in a few months.

>>65613827

Nerfanon here. Thermal detection distances are often far beyond identification distances; with cheap thermals you might be able to see a human at the better part of half a mile, but telling it apart from a coyote, deer, just-driven car brake pad, or freestanding AC radiator unit might be impossible until you get within a fraction of that. Display fidelity, digital zoom, ambient temperatures, weather, and a lot of other factors both internal to the device and external to the environment can also seriously affect your results. With these cheap thermals using TSIR upscaling, any inaccuracies in the sensor data will likely just be magnified, although unless someone gets a test unit to compare to a more capable thermal there's no confirmation. I'm currently not in a position to buy another cheap NV device, although Black Friday sales and Christmas are coming up...

I'll have to think about it.

>>65614816
What do you mean you don’t want the Xian Shi Wan Model 850 snow monkey plus?