天下無双 edition>What language(s) are you learning?>Ask questions about your target language!>Help people who want to learn a new language!>Participate in translation challenges or make your own!>Do not reply to the Jordanian!!>Make frens!Read the wiki:https://4chanint.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_Wiki**Comprehensible Input Wiki**https://comprehensibleinputwiki.org/wiki/Main_PageUseful links:>Free language‐learning book archive:https://mega.nz/folder/INlRkAQC#CthKI9-_kmDNyrOx12Ojbw>Books on linguistics and language courses:https://mega.nz/#F!Ad8DkLoI!jj_mdUDX_ay-8D9l3-DbnQ>Assorted language resources and some nice visual guides:https://pastebin.com/ACEmVqua>Torrents with more resources than you’ll ever need for 30 plus languages:https://archive(dot)ph/x0dFH>Russianon’s list of comprehensible input resources:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXd0V32TjCFsr1-F_en_lA4MI-i7JtyYf26cWLtPRec>Massive collection of textbooks on various languages, sorted by familyhttps://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/>/lang/ inpoot torrentshttps://rentry.org/inpoot>Refold Anki deckshttps://rentry.org/refold>Non-English piracy siteshttps://fmhy.net/non-englishPrevious Thread:>>225653810
>Anki memorization >Lecture in TL from a video or a from a grammar book>Comprehensible input video/textWhat else do you need?
>>225723148Masturbating to TL cuties so you remember why you're doing this shit in the first place.
Sakaki my love
My German experiment is officially over. Results: Posting only in German for a month didn't move the needle at all, but it was amusing.I probably had like ~80 hours of inpoot combined in that period, so that didn't do much either.Next steps: ???
>>225725850>didn't move the needle at all, but it was amusing.Aren't you like much better at output when you used it to write complicated paragraph posts? Didn't 80+ hours of input provide you with expanded vocabulary and help you recall stuff you almost forget?Come on now it's slower then what you want but it's not like there was no progress.
Seems like all the best Spanish content is from Spain and the rest is from Argentina. Is this going to fuck me up? I want to speak Mexican Spanish. I just want to be easily understandable I'm not autistic like Matt v Japan where I want to pass as a native. I'm white anyways.
>>225725984Not really. The last time I felt the needle move in a noticeable way was after reading 3 books back to back because I got hooked on a series, so I should probably just go balls deep into readmaxxing again. Challenge myself to read 10 proper books by the end of the year. Majority of my inpoot time is watching tv shows and it's no longer helping.
>>225726425If that is true then you are on an advanced level where you have to hunt for new words and phrases and learn advance grammar that rarely used in daily speech. You are upper B2 in German trying to reach C1-C2?
>>225727198I think I'm B2 in reading and listening, I can understand most media pretty effortlessly. In writing and speaking, I can get my point across but I still haven't mastered "basic" grammar they teach in A1/2, so overall I don't know where that puts me."Hunting for new words and phrases" is increasing the breadth of your knowledge, but what I lack is depth, the words and phrases that I know enough to comprehend them in text and speech aren't acquired deeply enough that I can use them automatically without thinking in my own speech and writing. And overall I haven't acquired the sound model of the language enough to be able to notice why saying "die Mann" sounds wrong (logically I know why, but my language model doesn't complain and I wouldn't notice it being wrong in someone else's speech, but to a native it would be grating).I wish there were more people in the thread that spent 4+ years on a single language so they could share their experience, but it just feels like I hit a natural ceiling due to my age (almost 29). I can always learn more words and phrases, but the subtle shit that actually matters is never going to get acquired. I can only compensate by drilling specific grammar and mistakes and monitor myself, but that's fucking gay.
Since there are a few latin enthusiast here I'll take the opportunity to ask how badly this author messes up the latin of this weird spooky doll in the VN I'm reading or if he manages to get it right.>>225728323Basic stuff is unironically the hardest, advanced shit will have exactly one use while the word for 'and' will have a hundred.
>>225728323My best guess would be to tell you to travel to your TL country, in this case Germany for at least 2 week and to immerse and output while there. That would almost 100% move the needle.I have it easier then you since I am learning Russian so I forgot that what you are going through will happen while learning the language. Basically if I correct the grammar, phrases and expand vocabulary I am moving ahead even if I draw from my language model I am not that far off and there are much less corrections that need to be made. Though while learning English this did not exist and I hope it was not just due to age.
>>225728749Lol I know exactly what that's from. Most of the Latin is technically grammatical but very unidiomatic. The English translations of the Latin are very bad. I can't speak to the quality of the Japanese rendering
>>225729455I would think he wrote the Japanese first, then made the effort to translate it into Latin. Too bad I don't have a screenshot of this one, but I remember the second sentence being something like "I rot alone in the ground" in Japanese, so I guess the translator used that as the source here. Well if my assumption that inferis is hell is correct.
>>225729913Makes sense.>Well if my assumption that inferis is hell is correct.Yeah, it literally means "lower (places)" and is commonly used for the underworld. That sentence in particular is correct grammatically, but the use of solitarie comes off as a bit strange
J'ai retrouvé la joie
I am gonna be best man but the wedding is in switzerland, i need to at least understand swizz(?) any ideas on how to even begin?Still got a little over 320 days
>>225728323Have you tried doing output flashcards or anything like that? I hate evildea's content but I remember him having a method for automating speech/writing by essentially spamming constructions but switching out a few words here and there.
>>225733002>I hate evildea's contentWhy?
>>225733283His content nowadays is either 90% react slop or clickbait. Some of his older videos are good though
Does anyone have a rulebook for when to use open/closed vowels in Portuguese when they're not stressed? Tried to find a rule but they were like "some like these examples do, some don't"I just can feel the difference in my tongue but not in my ears to learn just listening
>>225735072I don't, but shouldn't you specify which portugeuse? They have pretty different vowel systems on either side of the pond from what I understand
>>225728323get a german girlfriend that never shuts up
>>225736258>on either side of the pondan ocean is not a pond, why do englishers say retarded shit like that? unitedstaters can barely swim a pool because they're so fat
>>225738138brazilkun, i'm not sure if you're aware but americans and brits, potentially very many continental europeans as well, very often refer to the atlantic (ocean) as 'the pond' or 'a pond'
>>225736258You're right I meant Brazilian, I found material about vowel shortening in European Portuguese but still nothing about when to use open/closed vowels in Brazil
>>225738180His panics do it tooWe use "charco" which means "puddle" but the spirit is there
This is such a grind
I don't know if anyone here remembers, but I'm the anon that posted about learning French since September last year after I passed the JLPT N1. It's been going along very nicely, though I'm not where I should be because it's difficult to juggle college, life, and learning languages. I recently watched the entirety of ATLA and the first book of TLOK in French and it was cool. Had to watch the rest of Korra and Seven Havens in English because the French dubs had next to no seeds.Being so close to India, most people in our country grow up learning Hindi from shows and such. I can also more or less understand it. I was thinking of learning the alphabets, since then I'd actually be able to say I know Hindi. Do you guys think it would be a good idea to do that in parallel to French? And is anyone else here learning to read Hindi? I think I know the answer but it was still worth a shot
bump
Good morning bump.>>225733002No, never used output cards. I think it's fine if you need to survive in TL country, but it's not what builds fluency. It also just seems super tedious.>>225737018Thanks, now I'm faced with two impossible tasks instead of just one.
>>225737018Woah there, he wants to learn German, not to kill himself.
>>225738987You could learn devenagari in a few days bro. I learnt it prior to a trip to India 10 years ago just for fun. It helped me read some signs at train stations but i've forgotten it all now. It would definitely not be a big undertaking for you.
Thinking of diving into Russian for auramaxxing reasons. Entirely non utilitarian for me but I already speak very decent Chinese and that's the only language that is really strongly justifiable as utilitarian for me. Russian just sounds sick and it's a big civilizational language. Plus it's a contrarian pick in the West for political reasons which for me is a great plus. Making decent progress with reading cyrillic.
>>225735072>Does anyone have a rulebook for when to use open/closed vowels in Portuguese when they're not stressed?there is no rulebook in your brain for anything in the language so wtf would you use that to learn those thing? are you retarded?
>>225744527okay I'll give it a shot this December, thanks
>>225744754Im assuming you speak Bengali. I just looked up Bengali script and i feel Devanagari would be so trivially easy for you I'm surprised you're even asking this question. The writing system is practically the same just with different flavour. If I can do it as an English speaker in a couple of days it'd probably take you like 30 mins.
>>225745065Yes, I'm a native Bengali speaker. I'm not too worried about short term recollection as I am about remembering it long term and being adept at writing in it. Devanagari is similar to our script, but the subtler differences trip me up
>>225744619russian+chinese is such an auramaxxed pairing. I kinda wanna start learning chinese once my russian is decent
That's why I try to make it as fun as possible. I literally just play vidya and watch youtube in my TL. Fuck DuoLingo THOUGH
>>225746074>>225738788
I managed to vibecode an upgraded lute-like app for russian with an SRS that shows new sentences grabbed from imported books everytime the card is reviewed. It's really nice ngl
>>225748382youve wasted your time just to damage yourself more congrats chump
>>225749307Are you the same guy as >>225744744? You don't contribute to anything meaningful in the thread and shitpost like a miserable cunt. Wouldn't it be better spent learning Japanese o algo?
>>225749762yesi contribute, you just don't realise it because youre ignorant. come back in 10 years when you will see i was right the only shit posts are the manual learners postsi don't learn languages, only educated retards do that. i just live life and get the languages in the process
>>225750231most of what you said is retarded, but>i don't learn languages, only educated retards do that. i just live life and get the languages in the processgoes hard. fight on brother
>>225728323I learned a second language as an adult for 7 years.Stop doing direct translation challenges.Stop using references and stop using subtitles. Stop using crutches.
>>225749762don't worry about it too much, he's developed a different personality in his tl (english) and for some unknown reason it's a tsundere one. he wants to help others, but doesn't want to look meek; so offering it to others without insulting them thoroughly first is off the table, obviously
>>225750619i dont give a shit about you normoidsim just here to remind yall youre damaging yourselves and you'll never going to go past your lowered ceiling (which was entirely your fault)
>>225722049Do we have any children-friendly books?I can handle these but my gf is not keen on studying hard
say his name>>225751214you're literally retarded or ignorant you can't learn a language through a book
>>225751214I recommended Don Quixote to my dad when he was learning Spanish a couple years ago.He never read it, I'm not sure if he's even learning Spanish anymore
>>225750231>i just live life and get the languages in the processWhy don;t you get this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SAeIgsy1WQ without any prior manual introduction to Chinese?
>>225752348Hmm interesting the second syllable in breakfast sounds sort of like like han like in 飯 there must be connection here...oh fuck I've permanently damaged my understanding of Chinese through active analysis. It's owari before it even began.
>>225752348done, now what?
>>225752672yes, you've damaged yourselfcongratulations chump, you've played yourself fool i bet your Japanese is shit too, considering your adult retardation y'all are so stupid you can't even do what a baby does
>i dont give a shit about you normoidsb-baka! genuinely love knowing someone's got a folder full of freddie benson pictures utilized for nefarious purposes. do you have any other languages you'd like to learn besides english?
I'm moving into Bashkiria right now, there're lots of cute bashkirochkas waiting for me.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUHEWXvuEuw
>>225751525uh but don quixote is not children friendly, it's hard afthe one I read in high school had almost a half of every page with notes explaining obscure words, or when more context in needed, after all if a parody of medieval novels
achfound a brief explanation but ended with>Depois, distinguir <e> e <o> aberto e fechado pela ortografia é impossível (exceto nos casos acima)I can't believe it's impossível !people joke so much about English orthography but almost every other European language is the same, a shitton of vowels and only write with the 5 from Latin and you just have to guess
>>225744744>wtf would you use that to learn those thingbecause analyzing languages is more entertaining that simply speaking
Turkish learners in Germany must be overleveled as fuck
>>225745287Glad you think so too. How far along are you with your Russian? Any tips for someone starting out? Chinese is very manageable honestly, overstated in its difficulty imo. Also do you get dirty looks for learning Russian as a western European these days?
can’t believe the DoD puts nihongo and chinese on the same level of difficulty. Nihongo has a retarded amount of grammar and why does each kanji have two different meanings? so retarded
going to fly to an island and inject yamanaka factors and take psilocybin so my old ass brain can learn languages again
cell saga is my favorite lingohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMH3-vF6GYw
I've been practicing forever & still can't really do a good trilled r. it's not really that important for my tl but it drives me nuts
>>225750365Are you actually fluent though? Can you speak automatically without thinking about the grammar, recalling conjugation tables or using tricks where you fill in memorized constructions? Can you think in Polish without effort? Do you know any other languages that you've learned in your youth so you can compare how it feels?>>225751214Try Dreaming Spanish.btw. How old is your child girlfriend? I guess there are some benefits to living in a warzone.>>225751477Apparently that's Krashen but it doesn't actually look anything like him. I think someone messed up on an article or it's like some AI bastardization of the original image.>>225757513I thought they put it in the same category but Japanese has a * next to it which means it's particularly more difficult than the other ones in the same group.
>>225759786Quand est-ce que tu vas reprendre le français ?
>>225760335When I master German and figure out the secret to actually getting good as an adult. What's the point of learning another language if I'm just going to be permastuck on some shit level again?
>>225759786>Are you actually fluent though? Can you speak automatically without thinkingI just don't understand this, with English when I was a early teenager I remember having to thing and look stuff up and at some point later it just stopped completely and English became automatic. I don't know what exactly to attribute it to except repetition and constant use. Is that not going to just randomly happen for 3rd and 4th language? :(
>>225760420Ja, ich kann das nachvollziehen. Aber Französisch fällt mir viel leichter als Deutsch, also ich weiß nicht was ich machen soll... Ich kann mich einfach nicht für eine der beiden entscheiden.Ich bin dazu verdammt, langsam Fortschritte zu machen.
Livy is so painful in Latin to read. people say that Latin is precise and shit but you really can't tell what Livy means sometimes
sayhisname
>>225757513>>225759786chinese should be cat 3 at most. cat 4 should be reserved for japanese and korean. there is old research showing each hour of chinese gives ~1.6x the relative progress of an hour of korean or japanese
>>225760595Yeah, this ability to automate things seems to gradually drop off with age. If you've ever observed an old person trying to operate a piece of modern technology, you'll see that they have to manually and slowly think through every step, no matter their intelligence or motivation, it never becomes automatic so they're always stuck at a certain level because conscious processing is fundamentally limited and requires effort. From what I can tell, you will always be able to memorize facts and step-by-step procedures, what might be referred to as crystalized intelligence, but implicit learning becomes harder with age and it's the foundation and backbone of almost every skill, including languages.My hope was that this isn't a biological limitation but something to do with how adults process information and that it's possible to somehow get around this by avoiding certain ways of learning, but approaches like ALG that claim to do this, ultimately still fail. Maybe there are substances or specific drugs that can temporarily put you in a altered state of consciousness where implicit learning capabilities are increased but I don't think anyone is working on that type of research.
>>225761842When does it truly become over though? Are we still good throughout our 20s?
Translation challenge: bodily waste editionPeople shouldn't be judged for corpophilia as long as it's kept a secret.That includes the consumption of feces and indulging in the fetish with other consenting fetishists. As long as it's not, whatsoever, disclosed to normal people outside of the community with all the possible consequences - such as causing mild psychological disturbance, inflicting potentially long-lasting psychologial trauma or triggering vomit reflex in the confidant - there is no moral basis which a coprophile can be reprehended on.
Dunno why this tiny fella seems very interesting>>225762020Can you understand Western Armenian without too much of an effort?
>>225761963Depends on difficulty of the language and how long it takes you. There is now a good argument for intensive approaches where you learn for 8 hours a day like a full-time job, because if you stretch it out over years you might get worse results...
>>225761842So it's really over. I have a conspiracy theory that Boomers deliberately told young people they had plenty of time for everything out of envy that they could be better at anything.
>>225762278I'm actually a russian draft dodger
>>225761842>approaches like ALG that claim to do this, ultimately still failyou literally have zero proof for that
>>225762291What if you're still only 18 and proficient enough to where you just passively snowball your way into improving? That is, just by consuming input
>>225761842>Maybe there are substances or specific drugs that can temporarily put you in a altered state of consciousness where implicit learning capabilities are increased but I don't think anyone is working on that type of research.they just successfully reversed biological age with epigenetic reprogramming in parts of living humans for the first time in history within the last few weeks. they reversed glaucoma in two elderly individuals (previously not considered to be possible to reverse)
>>225762590Just think of it as each year your skill ceiling getting lower. The earlier you start the better. Your prognosis might be different based on whether you're learning French or Japanese, whether you're studying 30 minutes or 8 hours a day, and so on, because it's basically a race against the time. It's not like if you start late you won't be able to learn anything, but you'll just have a lower skill ceiling, which might be acceptable to you or it may be lower than what you're actually aiming for.But yeah, 18 is still a good age to get serious about learning something while you still can. Just don't stretch it out too much and waste your potential.
>>225762020Excellent challenge for German learners
so what is actually so hard about Japanese? I'm not interested in learning it, but I'm curious, since people complain about it being the hardest language
>>225763606nothing. people are just ignorant/retarded so they don't know the right way to do anything
>>225763865will you stop being so annoying
>>225763904maybe when i stop being right, chump
>>225762923Well, my dad is in his late forties and he picked up guitar from scratch in a little less than 2 years. Guess it's a sign of his exceptionally good neuroplasticity?
>>225764481Forgot O algo
>>225764481Like I said, it's about skill ceiling. Anyone can play a couple songs on the guitar if they concentrate, and anyone can learn a couple phrases to impress the waiter on vacation, but we're talking fluency which is a higher bar. I don't know what the musical equivalent to that is, but your dad certainly didn't reach it in 2 years starting in his 40s, unless he already had a music education during his childhood.
i apologize for my arrogant ways and anything and everything i may have said in the past that was stupid, i still have a lot to learn and grow i mist embark on a journey of self-discovery, self-discipline and self-refinement right this instanti kneel>>225763904right now, sorry
>>225766095Don't listen to themYou're right, they don't know shit
is extensive reading the answer to achieving Latin fluency? I'm forcing myself to relatively quickly finish Roma Aeterna and Wheelock's Latin, reread Familia Romana, reread all of Roma Aeterna again, then finish all the exercises I didn't finish, do a prose composition textbook and read all of the other LLPSI readers before spring, which is when I plan to start learning GermanI'm in a bit of a rush to study German, so I just want to finish all of this quickly and maintain my Latin through reading after all of this, with the idea that my grammar knowledge and vocabulary will be enough to read classical works
>>225756522I'm not sure what my current level is but probably around low B2 high B1 reading wise and maybe B1 in listening. I haven't started outputting yet. I'm a bit more than half-way through war and peace and in my lute-like app I have around 8000 known words (but its probably higher than that if you consider adverbs derived from adjectives and adjectives from verbs as separate words, I'm not entirely sure how my app treats those lol). If you're just starting out I recommend learning the very basics of it's grammar and then do some sort of CI like graded readers and beginner youtube videos. You could probably just do what you did with mandarin after you learned all the characters that you need to know in order to actually interact with the language. If I started over from the very beginning I would probably have stayed on easier material for a longer period of time instead of diving nose-deep into its classical literature, currently I encounter more new words from watching spongebob for 2 hours than reading for 2 hours and those words will typically be a lot higher in frequency and you can then understand more words that are derived from those base words. Also I would use something like lute and language reactor from the very start, these tools really do help ALOT. I don't really tell people that I'm learning russian but when I do they're usually impressed and not hostile at all towards it, though my brother also studied russian and is fluent so it's nothing new to my family/family friends
>>225767137Why would a swede learn russian. Very... peculiar
>>225767602A friend said he was learning russian but I knew he was bullshitting so I started learning it myself just to mog him. He dropped it after like 2 weeks and I just kept going lol. I've always liked russian literature and cinema so I guess that's some form of motivation, I also just can't imagine learning any other language except for chinese
>>225767602I'd at least preface it with wishing death upon Putin and the rest of the leadership. Not credible when every single person learning Russian acts as if it's totally inconspicuous.
>>225762567name a single person who started a language at 30 or later who got to a high level of fluency. Not the guy who made ALG he totally failed and couldnt replicate his youthful experience with thai. Not khazumotto he tried chinese years after he learned japanese and completely failed, even though chinese is much easier than japanese. Not matt vs japan who also did exactly that and failed.
>>225767871Bruh cinema??? Maybe you mean soviet. Because this shithole sure as hell hasn't produced anything of value in this department since the dissolution of the USSR.'Tis a shame nobody ever says they're learning a language because they they find the similarities between it and their native language interesting. That's why i never take any interest in languages that aren't indo-european. I need that shared origins thing that gives me the spark
>>225758767don't go rogging out on your fellow maldeviants, friend
>>225768227Yes soviet cinema, all the contemporary shit is awful. Russian isn't similar enough to swedish to the point where i consciously think about it in terms of swedish but I quite often look up a russian word and think "wow it's so stupid that this word means that" and then I think about it for a few more seconds and find out that it literally means the same thing in swedish if you directly translate all the components of the word
>>225768469>Russian isn't similar enoughThe -isk suffix having identical meaning in both languages was enough for the 12 year old me to cum diamonds. I guess it doesn't take a lot for me to get excited
>>225768689-ska is similar too from what I've heard. Means a woman.
>>225768764Alsohttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Russian_terms_derived_from_Old_Norse
>>225768764lol i was actually thinking about that a few months ago. Also names that end with a are female just like in russian>>225768689you mean -чecкий and isk? I can't say I've seen a russian word ending with иcк (or atleast I'm not sure exactly what you mean by it)
>>225768962Exactly. -cкий in general. Not necessarily -чecкий specifically.
>>225769069Also every single Ч Ш Щ and Ж sound in native russian words evolved from K, Kh, G, D or consonant clusters containing them. So дoждь for instance is reconstructed as *dusdyus (дycдьюc) in early Proto-SlavicYou can play around with this and maybe discover some unexpected cognates
>>225768075>name a single person who started a language at 30 or later who got to a high level of fluencywhy 30 or later? did the critical period change? i thought it was 25
>>225768075anyway, there is Marc, who was learning Russian with ALG and he started older than 40 (i think maybe even 60)https://youtu.be/OQ9Tjcr8pjo>Not the guy who made ALG he totally failed and couldnt replicate his youthful experience with thaihe couldn't do ALG. it had nothing to do with replicating his Thai. His Thai was still a failure to him even when he was young >khazumotto>mattnone of these people did ALG or even knew about it. they can't be examples for it or against it
>>225768075also like i said he has zero proof that ALG failed, that's because he doesn't have a single example of someone following it like designed and failing. it doesn't matter if there aren't perfect results because there haven't been any known perfect learners starting from zeroyou can dislike this all you want but it's the truth
>>225768075Borges
My reading flow is absolute dog shit. I have to look up 1 word every 5 words or so.
>>225770650Re-read the entire page again while the lookups are fresh in your mind.
>>225766341there just isn't much latin stuff besides literature, so reading is just going to be the key really for latin. you seem very studious and you've been posting your updates consistently and you've been progressing at quite a clip. i think that whenever you do decide to move on actively from latin to german. do you think you'll get some sort of burnout or some lack of interest rereading through part 1 of llpsi? i know that it's a short book, all things considered but it's mainly just a grammar book with a narrative painted on it. i can understand why you'd want to reread roma aeterna though since it's actual roman literature
i somehow didn't include the end to the sentence "i think that whenever you do decide to move on actively from latin to german.">you'll do great.sorry
Flub a dub dub, flub a dub dub, dub dub dub, flub a dub dub, wub.
>>225768227>hasn't produced anything of value in this department since the dissolution of the USSRI'm not saying you'wrong but it's still a bit of a stretch.There're decent films mostly from the less restrictive period of Russia of 90s and 2000s. Mopфий by Balabanov is one of my favorites, the Russian version of 'Requiem for a Dream', more dark and depressing as everything Russian.
>>225744619>>225745287>TL being russian and chinese(though i havent started chinese since im like barely a2 in russian)Fucking god damn it why arent i the special snowflake i wish i wasIm really not immune to propaganda am i
>>225763606The most obvious thing is that it's an unrelated language, so that means learning to communicate from zero again. Even the easy ones in this category like Indonesian are in the middle difficulty here because of all that work one has to put in when learning all vocab and grammar from scratch. What's specific to the language and adds to the difficulty beyond that is that it requires a lot of contextual knowledge which takes a long time to build up. The writing system mixes phonetic readings from up to 4 different chinese languages and old Yamato words for the same character. Which one should be used to read a word has to be learned on a word by word basis. The second big issue is the lack of phonetic variety, which results in a ridiculous number of homophones. Any given two syllable combo can correspond to over 30 different words. It's usually not that bad but at least a dozen is common. So you need to learn by context if koukou is a brilliant light, a harbor entrance or navigation, or any one of another 20 words. Some can even appear in the exact same context, kougun could be imperial (Japanese) army, red army, or army vanguard depending on if kou is written as 皇, 紅 or 行.>>225774648Some combinations like that are really common. Similarly French + Japanese is one you see all the time.
>>225774648dw anon Russian is just flavour of week for me. Chinese is my main by far and aside from that I've dabbled in Korean, Vietnamese, Spanish, Indonesian, and now Russian. I've made very little progress in most of them. Who knows how long before I hop on again to something else.
>>225767137Damn well done anon you've reached an impressive level!
>>225775347B1 is not a high level
>>225775347Having B1 is maybe impressive only when seeing it from a totally monolingual perspective, otherwise it's near useless. You either keep grinding for several more years or might as well just drop it since every machine translation is going to instantly produce much better translations than that "B1"
>>225774547There are still a few post-soviet gems but average quality is lower, though in my opinion тpyднo быть бoгoм and хpycтaлёв мaшинy are the best movies russia has produced and both are post USSR>>225777243Worst part is that going from B1 to B2 or B2 to C1 takes so much time
>>225759786>Are you actually fluent though?Possibly. In topics that I'm familiar with, yes.>Can you speak automatically without thinking about the grammar, recalling conjugation tables or using tricks where you fill in memorized constructions?Absolutely yes. I don't think of conjugation tables. Conjugations are automatic. Very occasionally I might say the wrong one.>Can you think in Polish without effort?I don't think in Polish. It just comes out.>Do you know any other languages that you've learned in your youth so you can compare how it feels?I am technically a bilingual native speaker of French and English but more heavily an English user. I don't think in French ever. As far as I'm concerned I'm far better in Polish than in French. I can read French pretty quickly without ever using French anymore, but about the same speed I read Polish.
>>225728323>feels like I hit a natural ceiling due to my age (almost 29).pure cope and total nonsense. you are learning wrong. all you know is words if you don't know grammar, you don't know a language. from what you say it sounds like you haven't really learnt anything. are you writing? are you having conversations? you need a grammar book with exercises and do those and then write a diary at the very least to use the grammar to make realistic sentences. at the very least you could record yourself speaking your diary every day and have it transcribed by AI so you have a record of what you say that you can read back. your age has nothing to do with anything and is the excuse of retards. to be honest it sounds like you need some actual classes from a teacher because from your own words, you are pretty bad. these threads are almost always filled with hobbyists and not people learning languages properly. it is just an activity for most of the posters.
Where is the guy that comes every thread and gives us language challanges?
>>225779327>you need a grammar book with exercises and do those and then write a diary at the very least to use the grammar to make realistic sentences.what studies are you basing this on?
>>225771289>>225771303to be honest the first part of LLPSI was more interesting, I thought that the little snapshots of Roman life were fun to read about. Roma Aeterna started out pretty good with Orberg's chapter and then Aeneid adaptations, but the Livy chapters are mostly the same thing over and over again. it's probably different when you're actually good at Latin thoughI kind of just force myself to do it, but it's not really easy or exciting to reread the same stuff. it might be better to just use Ankiwhat I do for each new chapter is just force myself to understand the text as completely as possible, which takes for the more recent chapters about 1.5 to 2 hours, then I reread that same chapter many times and I end up being able to read it quite well, so the first day of a new chapter always sucks the most
>>225779327yeah you need grammar study from my experience. it might be possible to learn a language without it, but do you really want to spend 8 years consuming input just to get to the place you'd get to with one year of consistent, structured study instead?
>>225781400>but do you really want to spend 8 years consuming input just to get to the place you'd get to with one year of consistent, structured study instead?who are these people are you're talking about?literally every consistent structured learner example I've seen actually does worse than just input and this is consistent with actual research https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/1udkc0c/3086_hours_of_th_comprehensible_input_silent/https://www.csun.edu/education/assets/take-away-tools/2013/krashen-ell-takeaway.pdfit's literally just a myth y'all repeat
>>225781883I said you need grammar study from my experience, not based on scientific research. psychology is pseudoscience anyway, I wouldn't believe any of that research there. it attempts to be positivist, but it can never, ever have truly reproducible experiments, unlike in physics for example
>>225777206>>225777243Fuck you guys are miserable can't I just give some props to a fellow language learner? Estimated >8k word vocab is an accomplishment.
>>225783198nountil he reaches native level in Japanese, his words mean nothing
>>225778379>Possibly. In topics that I'm familiar with, yes.So, no? Fluency is being fluent in all general topics. You should be able to talk about anything that you can talk about in English, without much issue. Maybe there isn't a Polish equivalent to some furry fetish jargon or whatever, but you would still be able to talk about it, describe it, hell, even just substitute the English word but say it in a Polish accent.>Very occasionally I might say the wrong one.Come on now. Do you ever say "We was" in English, unless you're deliberately imitating a black man for comedic effect? Of course not, because you're fluent!!Also, when did you start learning exactly?>>225779327Thanks for the advice. Before I take it seriously, I need to know the following:>your TL>your age>your level>how old were you when you started>how long have you been learning>what is your conceptualization of fluency
Can't believe the ALGzilian is back
page 9
>>225785837The ALG PSAs will continue until you confess to your errors and stop studying grammar.>tfw when I watched some zoomer play video games in Spanish and listened to a podcast in Spanish and didn't study a conjugation tables or worry about when to use "the subjunctive"feels good, man
>>225785484>So, no? Fluency is being fluent in all general topics.If you struggle to find words in a particular topic, you're not fluent, even if you try to speak around it. It becomes immediately clear when you aren't recalling a word.>Come on now. Do you ever say "We was" in English, unless you're deliberately imitating a black man for comedic effect? I mean a wrong declension class or perfect/imperfect, not wrong person/number/gender.>Also, when did you start learning exactly?2017, but let's say there were break years
>>225789644I used to watch RicharBetaCode but he closed shopConsidering learning Arabic if I ever find the perfect long content streamer
I tricked diasporas irl and native speakers online into thinking I was a native of their country when I spoke/wrote in TL.
>>225789644i learn only by inputting with cute asian girls and now when i speak asian languages i talk like an asian girl
>>225791647Good.
>>225735072We call vowels with a circumflex (^) closed and vowels with an acute accent (´) open. Open vowels in unstressed positions are pretty much a north/northeast thing, except in diminutives, where they’re usually preserved across the country. I’m not entirely sure what you mean though. If you’re talking about vowel reduction, you can reduce unstressed vowels as much as you like. There’s no rule
>>225792536Have you learned french yet
You need to lose weight to learn a language for real.
>>225793972I'm bulking.
>>225794367Excess fat negatively affects your ability to acquire a second language.
>>225790387I found his channel recently searching for an RE2 playthrough. Do you have any other Spanish (whatever country) gaming channels you also thought were helpful?
>>225796187I used to watch JuegaGerman
>>225796435Gracias, señor. (That's how you say "thanks a bunch" in español, for you gringos.)
>>225796614Also Rubius, Vegeta777, Auronplay, ElMarianaThey also stream on Twitch where you can find more Spanish gaming streamers
>>225796614thanks alot asshole you ruined all of my future prospects of learning spanish
Thoughts on using claude or codex to vibe code your own language learning workshop? Not for others to download, but strictly for personal use.I was thinking I could have it implement flash cards, practice puzzle exercises, progress tracker, and have a repository of comprehensible input videos and podcasts all as a one-stop-shop kind of thing. I could upload an interactive dictionary and have dropdown menus for every word, an IPA viewer, and maybe pull a bunch of stuff from sites like forvo to hear how natives say words.
>>225798245It's procrastination. Just use existing tools, there is no need to re-invent the wheel unless you have a very specific thing in mind that doesn't exist yet.
한글의 가독성 덕분에 한국어가 쉬워 보이지만, 막상 오랜 시간을 들여 공부해도 여전히 초급 단계에 머물러 있는 경우가 많습니다.
No Dutch word today?
>>225798398How is coding an app yourself procrastination but installing someone else's app not?
>>225798398>Just use existing toolsI'm already doing that and my method is solid, I just don't like cycling between multiple apps and websites. This is just something to facilitate my learning and make everything all in one spot. I'm not sure how that constitutes procrastination but it seems like you're projecting your insecurities onto others.
I think it’s over for me. My brain is too boomered.
>>225798438Installing someone else's tool takes 5 seconds. Coding a brand new tool takes a while even with AI, and that's time you could've used to learn a language. Imagine you wanted to learn how to cook but instead of doing that, you decided to re-model your entire kitchen from scratch.>>225798494Seems completely unnecessary to me. Are you solving a real problem/bottleneck, or are you just inventing busy work for yourself? Switching between tabs and windows is pretty seamless and instant once they're open. Maybe invest in some bookmarks and pin your favorite programs to the taskbar.If you just want an excuse to make something, then go ahead, you don't need to ask for permission in this thread.
>>225798682>Imagine you wanted to learn how to cook but instead of doing that, you decided to re-model your entire kitchen from scratch.imagine you want to learn how to cook but your refrigerator is in your back yard, your pots and pans are stored in the basement, the spices are in your neighbor's living room, and the meat is in an ice box in the attic
>>225799479The analogy doesn't track. We're talking about creating new tools, rather than moving existing ones so they're more accessible. Obviously the latter takes much less time which is why I suggested bookmarks & pins.
genuinely considering learning basic to intermediate chinese first just to learn japanese easier also because chinese does seem like a simpler languageis it a good idea?
The first cheat code to learning to speak is to listen to it as much as a native speaker does, you just start to pick it up without even trying, of course you need to read as much too to pick up reading skillsThe second cheat code for east asian languages are as followsLearn Korean before Japanese so you can skip kanji and learn very many similar words and grammar patternsLearn Chinese so you can skip learning complex grammar altogetherLive in the country you want to learn the language of with a host family and be forced to use itLast tip is that you can lose your native tongue without practice and people have forgotten their first language, if you want to keep it you must use it, and apply that for every language you know
>>225800565>so you can skip kanjiwhy would anyone want that
>>225796187I like to watch Adricarra, she has a pretty pleasant voice
I got 7 cans of Japanese food and named them after the corresponding letters of the alphabet for meal prep, but then I realised can-G was surplus to my needs, so I didn’t use it.
>>225800511Fuck no.If you want to learn something it's always faster to study the thing directly instead of studying something else.However if it's just the writing system which worries you then you can definitely learn it in isolation.If you get a book like Remembering the Kanji and pair it with an anki deck you can learn almost all of the kanji you will ever need in like 1 year with basically minimal effort or 3 months if you are willing to make a serious grind.
>>225800511Completely stupid idea.
>>225800511>is it a good idea?It's a good way to start malding about every single retarded thing Japanese does to hanzi/kanji.
>>225802022Just studying Japanese will do that on it's own desu. Mostly I just find it fascinating, but even then it can be a bit too much occasionally. I can't imagine doing this for any other reason than as a hobby or I would be so mad about that shit.
>>225735072UNstressed vowels are closed since Latin with the exception of A; closed A didn't exist back then.In Br*zillian Portuguese it closes before nasal M/N like in "amâmos" and in Portugal it is "amámos."I highly recommend you to ditch closed A unless  because it's perfectly fine in some dialects (even in Br*zil) and it's more etymological.t. Br*zillian
>>225753708As I similarly stated previously (>>225804909), lean into etymology to easily get rid of these. "Depois" is "de" + "pós" (as in "após") so the correct pronunciation is "depós" which unfortunately was corrupted by the illiterate suines in this acursed land, so I suggest you to use "após" and throw this "depois" leftover in the trash; they're perfectly interchangible.
>>225798400일본인이면 조금 시간 때려박으면 쉽게익힘
>>225798245I did this with claude to make lute and language reactor with extra features. It takes very little time if you know exactly what you want and specify it to claude. While it was working on the code i could read and once it was done i got a desktop notification of it, active work was less than 1 hour but the applications save me like atleast 15 minutes every day
>>225800511Is it good idea to build muscle but doing only stretching exercises fr half a year? Just do what you want directly.
>>225804909I've genuinely never heard anyone use an open vowel for the first a in words like manhã, it's either nasal (and ""closed"" obviously) or just near close. No one says mánhã, it would sound weird as fuck. Also, a lot of the vowels people here describe as closed are actually nasal, like the o in ônibus and Antônio
It's fucking impossible to find comprehensible input materials for Modern Standard Arabic/Fusha. They're either in the Egyptian accent or Saudi.
>>225812103Grab a textbook with lots of text and audio. MSA is probably easier to find in that regard.https://languagelearning.site/category/arabic/>but it's not comprehensible input!!Yes, it is. It's easy reading/listening material for learners and you can just use lookups instead of contextual/visual clues like in a shitty YouTube video.
>>225813223jokes on you, I did the work and still didn't learn the language
>>225813223>shitty youtube videoI've only learned languages from Pimsleur and Youtube. It's the most effective way.>MSA is probably easier to find in that regard.>full of textbooksYeah, but there is a lack of quality videos for learning Fusha Arabic and I really need something like that. There's a channel called Arabic comprehensible but they have about 20 videos and that's not enough.>>225813438Agreed
AI says I'll reach B1 level in Arabic in 2 and a half months by doing Pimsleur + Complete Arabic daily, what do you say?
Anybody in here learning Russian?
>>22581444075 days * 8 hours of study = 600 hours totalArabic takes an average of 2200 classroom hours + the same amount of self-study to reach B2. You will barely scratch the surface of the language with 600 hours, even assuming you study it like a 56-hour full-time job. It's one of the final bosses of language learning.
>>225815050Those are for English natives who cannot learn anything
>>225814545Yes
>>225815050It always boggles me how easy FSI classifies Romanian. How can it be easier for an Angloid than Spanish?
>>225805783What changes did you make to lute?
>>225816684My guess is lower requirements cuz no one cares about Romania.
>>225815808Any streamers you can recommend?
>>225817655I'm not that advanced yet. I still mostly watch content made for learners like Russian with Max.
>>225815050latin feels like it's a category 2 language, 2.5 more like. like a yolked german
>>22572642525 pages a day is 9,000 pages a year. You got this.That 10,000 is some unthinkable number for people to reach in a TL for some of the posters here just shows who is NGMI.
>>225817764Oh sickHow did you go about learning Cyrillic
>>225817655Бэбэй
>>225818073nta but you can learn Cyrillic in a day. just like read Wikipedia. almost all other scripts are trivial to learn
Hey, I actually started digging studying Classical Arabic and I've been doing the lessons on time ever since it started a week ago.Each lesson also conveniently comes with a PDF file that has a digital-typed text transcript with the diacritics and other details.I want to go beyond the lessons and to parse these transcripts to improve my written Arabic prose. How to go about it? And how to incorporate Anki in it so I can extract phrases and words I don't understand/sound eloquent?
>>225818039I agree, the cases and perhaps the participles are the only really difficult parts of Latin grammar for English pipo. compared to English, Latin tenses are easy
>>225738788Reading is Sisyphean. You have to live it.
>>225818161
>>225738788One day you will go over a text in your TL and you wont even notice that you read it, information ill just go into your brain but that day is not today.
>>225761010Litbro it’s because you went directly from Familia Romana into fucking Livy. If you grind Caesar like I did (like the LLPSI Caesar reader they publish as a text to prep for Roma Aeterna) you would find the Livy chapters to actually be easier than the adapted Vergil ones>>225781344>the Livy chapters are mostly the same thing over and over again.Guess how you get good at reading a specific genre or difficult prose. You’ll figure it out though lol you’re a grinder. I think some of the intermediate readers are daily life.
>>225818275I've learned Italian and Spanish to the point that I can effortlessly read literature in the first and instantly understand most of what I read in the latterHence, I plan to move on to Russian. I'm nothing like Jordanon, right?
>>225818404i'll indulge you in your humble brag, britbro. >I've learnedyou didn't have to impress me anymore past those two words, yet you continued to. no, you're nothing alike
>>225818530It isn't a brag, more of a regretI enjoy reading in both but neither now feel fulfillingI'm just going to pick up Russian and hope it itches that itch. I do know that the basic cheatcode to learning a language is finding a good and reliable content streamer
>>225818751>It isn't a brag, more of a regretunderstood, though you shouldn't feel regretful for gaining the knowledge you have now, across two languages no less. good luck with russian
>>225818073I learned it years ago in school. I had it as one of my foreign language courses. It was a requirement and I didn't take it seriously back then. I just studied to pass the class and never really used it again.
>>225818751Every language you make a decision to learn should find behind itself a certainty that in the future you already know that language. For this to be the case, in a way your life should be intertwined with your TL including the recreation, business, philosophies, culture, everyday way of life of your TL not just words, grammar and phrases. Every language you learn you will actively live and breathe not just know and understand. When you are not ready to live it the regret comes.
>>225819070Beyond all the batshit delusional self help shit I take your meaning. Honestly, my main aim is to learn a language to the point that I can start producing content in it. I've had a dream for a long time about starting a YouTube channel where I visit every castle in my country and make videos about them for my TL audience
>>225818375the grind is weird in Roma Aeterna, some chapters are extremely long (like chapter XLVIII, which consists of 39 pages of unadapted Livy), some are rather short (the chapter preceding that one is like 9 pages)I am confident, however, that Roma Aeterna will teach me quite a lot
>>225820387It’s a fundamentally different book from Familia Romana. While FR, as a nature method book, is designed to be so crystal clear that you can learn and internalize really the whole grammar just through reading and rereading, what shocks people is literally none of the golden age corpus reads that way. Roma Aeterna is more like a primer/reader of selections of authentic prose. The college companion for Roma Aeterna actually recommends splitting up the usage of the book into multiple different courses that can be tackled in any particular order or omitted entirely. I found Caesar hard but ultimately getting used to him was a great investment simply because it got me used to an authentic periodic style with lots of indirect speech that isn’t written to teach itself to me but to impress an educated Roman.
>>225820914did you read Caesar with a facing page translation or something like that? I had this idea that it might be useful at least for a while
>>225821208I did a few things. Firstly, I read the book Talks with Caesar, which was pretty quick since it basically just decomposes chapters 1-20 for you, then I read the Loeb of DBG where I would read the Latin of a chapter, then the English, then carefully reread and resolve gaps in the Latin. Then I read the LLPSI Caesar reader and found that the selections in there had become quite tractable monolingually, so I was able to read that whole thing in like 3 sessions. It really helps that while I was doing all this I was reading varied easier monolingual stuff on the side.
>>225821613are the newer Loebs available anywhere as PDFs?
>>225821685For free? No, but the old one is fine anyways.
I kind of regret starting to learn Italian. Or to be more precise: not speedrunning and not being consistent with it in the past when I was more passionate about languages.The language is great, the people are great, I can easy learn from songs which is great, translating recipes, dish names and knowing how to pronounce them is fun which is also great, but Italy also fills me with melancholy. I'd never live there, there's no significant diaspora in Poland, they are bad at football now, and most of the content I enjoy is AT LEAST 20 years old.And for content that is not just pure entertainment, Italian doesn't do much for me.I'm also too old to make friends with people, especially when I don't speak the language super fluentlyStill a Italophile though but I just don't 10 words a day and that's it. What to do?
>>225821208Book 1 of Caesar's DBG, fully parsed:>https://archive.org/details/CommentariesOnTheGallicWarCaesarCompletelyParsedBookI/page/n13/mode/2up
>>225818751>I do know that the basic cheatcode to learning a language is finding a good and reliable content streamerI'll try to do that
Didn't do my input today
>>225816742I posted about it either in this thread or the previous but basically it has built in SRS with FSRS parameters imported from anki, words can be imported from an anki deck so that they appear as "known" if they're on a mature card or "seen" if its young. I took a few screenshots just now to illustrate it's work-flow:1. Import texts from files, all the sentences get indexed.2. Stat tracking and in app SRS3. Clicking a word while reading. If you click on "+ SRS" a card is automatically made.4. Instead of seeing the same sentence with the target word you will instead get a new i+1 (or i+2/3 depending on your preferences) sentence each day that you encounter the card. If the sentence is incomplete or just not comprehensible on it's own you can click "other sentence" button. If the target word doesn't have the same meaning in this sentence as it did in the one where you clicked "+ SRS" you click the other button and you won't see that sentence again. 5. Reading software is connected with the LR-like software so that if you click c while watching something it will automatically make a listening card in the reading app for you to review.It's a bit buggy and everything doesn't work 100% as I want it to but I just write down my desired changes/complains in notepad and then give them to claude the next time I'm using it. Sentence mining was quite cumbersome before and would take like 15-20 minutes every day (if I added lots of new cards that is) and the task was so tedious that I just procrastinated it for several days at a time but now it's pretty effortless and smooth. I'm doing some experimenting with this new sentence mining technique and will compare my retention to my old method. https://imgur.com/a/GgdLNn1
We live in a truly wonderful time for language learning. There are so many resources available for even rare languages like Maori and Welsh.You don't even have to leave your house to talk to a native speaker of any language. You have access to most of them at your fingertips.And the widespread availability of English has given us connections to people we otherwise would never be able to talk to.We're all gonna make it, bros. Whatever you're learning, whether it has 2 speakers or 2 billion speakers, I wish you all the best of luck and remember to have fun and be positive.
>>225822103LitLatanon is definitely beyond this book at this point since he’s already well into Roma Aeterna. If he slogs through book 1 he’ll find the remainder a grind but not a difficult one.
I wanna attempt writing something easy in German. I learned it for years, my level is good enough that it shouldn't be an issue but there's a huge gap between my passive and active knowledge of vocabulary. Meaning I do read frequently in German but I find it hard to write it myself. Any tips?
>>225822052Do the work. Treat it like a puzzle game where you have to figure out what a text means and how the language conveys meaning. You don't even need to be interested in the culture to have fun this way, but you will inevitably discover new things as your comprehension increases.>>225822360The carrot is still gonna be there tomorrow.>>225822428Read another 3 million words.
>>225822826Tu as raison. Je vais la poursuivre demain. Aujourd'hui n'était qu'un coup de malchance.
>>225822428Journal about things you want to be able to talk about, where you have gaps in vocab put the English concept in brackets, then go look up the missing words and rewrite the passage in full, then read it aloud.
>>225821208One encouraging thing is that basically all neo-latin historians write in a style that essentially is just “easy Caesar/Livy” so I’ve found after Caesar the horizons for fairly easy historical prose (written in excellent Latin) is basically endless.
>>225822826I did it, I checked a sentence structure, word etymologies, I bothered my co-workers with it (this trick of explaining things you learned really works), I constructed my own sentences, etc. I just feel like it's pointless. That's why I'm leaning a bit more towards the utilitarian approach to language choice now, even if that utility is simping to girls or reading some niche book
>>225822103I think something like this would be more useful as a reference if you wanted to dig into the grammar of particular spots than as a reading companion.
>>225822052everywhere sucks nowthe smart boy commits suicide
>>225815050I can only surmise that the reason why French and Spanish are ‘harder’ in this edition of that image in contrast to earlier renditions is because too many people in the US diplomat corps have been learning those languages and they want to con people to learn other category I languages by appealing to laziness.
>>225810561That's because the virtuous speaker avoids unworthy words like "manha." I use "periodo matutino" since I discovered that "manha" is the bad version of "mane." I've done uncountable replacements like this over the years, and now that I think of it, I haven't said anything with "nh" or "lh" in ages, perhaps 10+ years, when I began to study etymology.
>>225823484Or maybe the observed time to "achieve proficiency" is longer for students of French and Spanish because the laziest students choose those languages, and the more diligent students (who spend more hours studying outside of class) choose the other Romance languages.
How do you say "bump" in your target language? In Spanish, we say "empujar." (Actually, to tell the truth, I don't know if that's what they say.)
>>225818161Learn Turkish and let's help each other. MSA - TR
>>225825353I think they just use ‘bump’ as a loan word in Spanish forums. Been a while. Could be wrong.
>>225818073Also starting Russian anon. Spam Duolingo cyrillic exercises. There's a dedicated section for just learning the alphabet Cool that there's a few of us learning it seems. I'm literally just starting out, first class this week. I've been learning cyrillic and watching RealRussianClub lessons on YouTube.>>225822411That's awesome. We live in such an amazing time for being able to vibe code tools for your own hyperspecific applications and preferences.
Another beautiful day to learn a language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxZ3fz3LMp4bump
>>225830051>>225828000Wann glaubst du, dass du Deutsch beherrschen wirst? Wie lange noch?
>>225831866I'm gonna give myself till the end of the year to read a couple million words and see if that changes anything. If that fails, I'm quitting the hobby cuz it's impossible.
>>225825775I see.>>225830051Ah, a fellow learner of Spanish.
>>225828000>do one language with Language Group>later learn another language on anki and youtube lessons>then relax by watching content in those languagesIs there a better feeling?
>>225832009Go to Germany for a month
>>225832009>till the end of the yearBut that's only 2 months. You really think it's enough??>If that fails, I'm quitting the hobby cuz it's impossible.But you always motivate those who want to quit! You did it for years! Now you want to become the quitter!?
I’m less bitter, rethinked things, and taking it a bit less seriously today. I’ll just carry on with Italian as my pointless side-quest to achive a cool useless skill. I’ve already spent so much time on all this language stuff that I ought to be at C1 level in at least two of them by now, so I’ll stick with it until I reach the point where I can show off my Italian as a party trick.Every country sucks nowodays anyways as an American anon said. It’s just that I get the impression that not every country has experienced such a cultural decline as Italy hasAnd I probably won’t learn any other language. I’d only start learning German, Dutch, Swedish, etc. if I actually emigrated there or already had a solid plan to do so. I’m still tempted to take up an extending beyond Europe language after Italian, or even instead of it, that has a strong online presence, such as Spanish, Portuguese, Russian or even Japanese, just for different perspectives, but I’m fed up with jordie-doingI should have learnt languages, emigrated, or done something earlier in life
Woke up today and realised I don't give two shits about languagesGonna take a break for a while
>>225833847you had a dream?
>>225832760>rethinked thingsrethought things
>>225835344Dropping Italian to learn English properly
>>225823643Lol I’ve gone in the exact opposite direction and reduced my unstressed vowel system to just a few sounds, it makes speaking so much easier. You must hate the way people speak here then, since in most accents n and l followed by i are now pronounced with the same sounds as nh and lh
>>225835527ty for making me laugh polebro
>>225835685Wow this is an unbelievable amount of effort to speak your native language. I’m glad I come from somewhere with a natural language instead of an artificial koine and I can just talk how I feel.
READ 50 PAGES TODAY FAGGOT
>>225836550People here don't consciously try to speak that way tho, it just comes naturally. Do you honestly think millions of people just woke up one day and randomly decided to start speaking like that? The only person going out of their way to change how they speak is that anon who's obsessed with Latin or whatever. He must sound ridiculous, because literally nobody speaks the way he described. My accent, on the other hand, is just one of the many established accents we already know about. My point was simply that what he's saying here makes no sense whatsoever
DO NOT LEARN MANDARIN part 2 just dropped https://youtu.be/Ea3C9msCidcpart 1 here:https://archive.li/8e8jf
>>225836968I speak Latin artificially because it’s my third language. I don’t “try” to speak my native English at all.Anyways, been in a bit of a slump for a couple days. Didn’t do my anki yesterday but still mined vocab, only put like an hour in each day. Makes me sad.
ALG leaner here, if y'all have any questions reply to this comment
>>225838091No idea what you're talking about
>>225838237Oh I misunderstood what you meant by “that anon who is obsessed with Latin” lmao
>>225838193First!Tengo muchas preguntas.
>>225804909why be a prescriptivist in 2026?
>>225838193After three years, how much French have you learned?
>>225838411pues dímelas guey>>225838193I meant ALG learner
>>225838498I think you're confusing me with someone else. I don't think I ever posted here before But I've started dabbling in French 2 years ago I think, and I've only started taking it seriously last yearHow much French I've learnt? Enough to watch native content. I can watch thishttps://youtu.be/IhkZpYAUUxc
>>225835685I grew up reading the same old books from my grandpa and they were all in etymological orthography, so "theatro" instead of "teatro." I have a general distaste for how our Portuguese has changed in the last 2 centuries, including phonetics, and don't even get me started on the whole "tu" vs. "vc" and "sua" vs. "d'ella" thing.
>>225836550once you get into etymology there are only two paths ahead of you: accept language change or become voluntarily outdated.Haven't you been annoyed by "you" (plural) > "y'all/you guys"? What if it got replaced by "chat"? How long are you going with the flow?Portuguese changed a fucking lot in the span of a single century, so yes, I kind of made an archaist conlang based on it and (de)trained myself.
>>225838660My bad, there was some hyper touchy Brazilian here three years ago who planned to learn French to C2 in just a year using the ALG methodWhat's your TL?
>>225836968There's one guy on youtube called Virtutis Discipulus, he's a lot less conservative with language than me, but our overall accent is similar with the exception of R (I trill/roll them like in Italian)
>>225838471I could spend hours discussing my motivations and why I believe that some prescription isn't bad if restricted to some registers (including orals), but it's so much easier to call it a conlang and get a pass from annoying bitches like you.There's no way of debating someone who thinks of language as a mere convention.
>>225839153Well, like the other Brazilian alluded to, I’m somewhat of a limited proscriptivist. English will change, but it must orbit around a real literary register that everyone who at least graduates highschool sort of uses. Extreme proscriptions decouples speech from writing too much and just kills the language eventually, no proscriptions leads to every dialect becoming its own language, like AAVE, or latin vernacular after the fall of Rome. Basically, if the Roman Empire held together, say, 500 years longer, Latin may have continued 500 years longer as a natively spoken language, and would have been recognizably the same language, but of course quite different from prior eras. That’s how a language lasts 1000 years without becoming a literary-only language.
The real foe of English literary tradition and linguistic continuity is Linkedinglish. Usually ESLs but often natives using this bizarre new koine that at once effects sophistication while in reality being bizarrely simple. It’s unmoored from the literary tradition, and yet used by the learned classes (in part because a lot of ESL businessmen especially in East Asia learn English through study and vocab lists instead of reading anything with a soul) so it has greatly wounded the prestige of the literary tradition.
>>225839764You and I agree on this; language proscription should resemble our litterature; I wouldn't prescribe how I speak because it's too radical. But Portuguese went through at least three reforms (19xx, 194x, 1990) in a single century that drastically changed it far far away from our litterature to the point that a school teacher won't use the original Machado de Assis, but a "modernized" translation, so any attempt at reverting the language goes back to when our writers mimmicked the French, which is too different to the average Joe.
>>225840198Requiescat in pace.What I see in English prose is that the novels are written by people whose idea of literature is basically fanfiction with an editor.
Idk what happened but Language Reactor is very out of sync with auto-generated subs on YouTube today. It was never perfect but now it doesn't show subs and then dumps 3 lines of text at the wrong time
>>225840034>>225840572Naturaly, we can't have a litterary tradition based on the likes of Fourth Wing.
how feasible is it for a nigga to get to german c1 within one year?
>>225841286Haha the perfect example of what’s happening
>>225836968>he doesn't read the most recent and most thorough research on the phonetics of ancient languagesgrim
>>225841685if you study for 4 hours per day, maybe more if you can, I think it's possible, but you have to have a good structure and not waste your time with ALG stuff, though input is obviously important
>>225842901Am I right to assume you refer to my previous misunderstanding between Late Latin and Classical Latin vowels? If so, consider that a typo.
>>225843110>waste your time with ALG stuffHow dare you
>>225843292hmm I don't know what I meant xD>>225843409it simply insists upon itself
I just looked at a Loeb online and it looks like they literally just scan and reprint older volumes then charge 30€ for that
>>225840198I saw a post recently from Litterae Christianae (maybe on his Twitter), commenting how a letter written by one of the passengers on the Lusitania is nearly unintelligible to modern Portuguese speakers today. Hence why we need Latin. :-^)
Flubba dubba wubba chubba!Ink onk! Ink onk! Rat-tat-a-tat-tat: chat!Pong kong long; long kong pong - long pong kong?Eep.
https://youtube.com/shorts/7ndYSTUKesgThe second-hand embarassment I get from this video is incredible. Just recording himself stumbling through some sentences from google translate with some gay teenager "hehe i find this difficult hehe" talk. This is why I hide my less advanced languages and just say I know French and German
>>225845717I know LC. He's right on this. My current president, who has only 4 fingers, can count with a single hand how many people I know that still write in an old-fashioned way. The anglo-sphere is fortunate to have r/BringBackThorn together with other archaism enthusiasts, because Lusitans have forgotten what a mesoclitic is.
I'm making my own language.
>>225845717>Litterae ChristianaeThe GOAT.We really oughtta keep a list of latin youtubers, audiobook uploaders, etc. probably doesn’t help the tirones that they have to just find these tiny channels themselves.
Latin Youtubers:Roman Pronunciation (ecclesiastical)Litterae Christianaehttps://youtube.com/@litteraechristianae?si=Zz7j5NBtLmP3SFw5Via Latinahttps://youtube.com/@via.latina?si=zQupqoOpKgZVRmTeMixedLectiones Antiquaehttps://youtube.com/@lectionesantiquae3090?si=VuHRwAwJrqkUWOhAMusa Pedestris (foid)https://youtube.com/@musapedestris?si=ixZmtb5BLnfzsPT6Satura Lanx (foid, not as cute as Musa)https://youtube.com/@saturalanx?si=ORDeBvS8Ran3liG0Reconstructed Classical PronunciationScorpiomartianus (bald man)https://youtube.com/@scorpiomartianus?si=UOEdt1hQZSNgTB87Legio XIII (also bald man)https://youtube.com/@legioxiii?si=9YD3WYelN_SULjYBOnagrushttps://youtube.com/@onagrus-qf2ud?si=y04sGvMr-6JhlSodThe Modern Hermeticist (only this playlist)https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNnqqvK2yDEEOjlj3AjEqsQQkhmUYoAJx&si=ET0lnBCagx9NVZF5Found in Antiquity (foid, autistic queen)https://youtube.com/@foundinantiquity?si=ivZnboobu2Ldejsa
>>225839241I don’t see the point of altering your accent so much. I’d imagine most people struggle to understand you
>>225847869it's just fine; you can understand spanish without ever studying it, so the same language with some sound changes is a lot better than one would imagine.
>>225847869>I don't see the pointyou get to actually speak correctly, duh. Just think about "X", how clearer the language becomes by properly using " ks."
So like does ALG not allow anki cards and reading for the first thousand hours? Damn
>>225849192Not even subtitles. You have to do literally nothing but subtitle-less input for the first 1000 hours for even the easiest language (spanish).
alg is like those "natural male enhancement" supplements you'd see on tv all the time in the 2000sremember enzyte?
>>225849411No it’s more like saying you can only get more fit if you shun exercise and that literally the only thing that will make you eventually able to bench 315 is eating clean for 10 years while being wheeled around so you can avoid accidentally stepping which would damage your nerves and permanently harm your strength potential.
>>225849358>>225849192This method has to be a joke, right?I was speaking my first TL from basically day 1.
>>225849192I feel the need to defend ALG because people seem to hate on it solely because they don't understand what problem it's trying to solve. Yes, it's a hassle and counter-intuitive but its reasoning is logical, you build a sound model of the language first and everything trickles down from that. Initially your gains might be slower than the reader or grammarian, but your skill ceiling is higher in theory.Of course, in practice it works about as well as any other input-based approach but even if you purely acquire from audio, neuroplasticity is still a factor that might prevent you from acquiring certain sounds or features and you'll end up developing a "monitor" to compensate. ALG will say that you "analyzed the language too much" or whatever, but actually your age just lowers your potential skill ceiling and there's not much you can do about it.People like Matt vs Japan seem to glorify the ALG approach later in their career after they hit a skill ceiling and then theorize, oh man, if only I learned through audio-only, I'd be way better now, but in practice, he hasn't managed to apply this wisdom to Chinese yet, and it probably has something to do with the fact that he's over 30 now.
>>225851222How well do you sleep normally?
>>225851527I sleep pretty well, no major issues.
>>225851553Is this "too old" cope a meme, or do you really believe that?
>>225851574I'm completely serious, and no one is more bummed out about this fact than me.
>>225851636Why do you believe it? And where did you come up with the age 25?
>>225851755I believe it because of personal experience and because it's a good explanatory theory collaborated with observations of other people and other domains.The specific age when "it's over" doesn't really matter, there's probably individual variation due to genetics, lifestyle etc. that influence the drop in neuroplasticity and fluid intelligence with age. In something like chess, we already know that starting in your 20s means you will never become a grandmaster. The phenomenon is most clear there because they are actually able to quantify skill and you can observe the hard ceiling. In language learning, it's more obfuscated because learners can compensate with "monitor"-based abilities on tests and reason through grammar even if they don't have a real intuition for it.The reality is that your skill ceiling drops every year and eventually, it's low enough that you're just out of reach of true fluency. I started learning German at ~25 and I've already hit my natural ceiling. If I started at 18 and did the exact same thing, I would be much farther in the same time. If I started at 12, I'd have intuition that surpasses most adult learners in the same time.
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