>>3000900
I work for the biggest OEM in Taiwan as a consultant and yesterday I visited our factory lines.. bros it's literally slavery with extra steps. The machines are insane tho, thousands on CNCs, literally.

>>3000900
I hate machinist

i liked the movie the machinist

How do you set up compact machine tools like shapers on uneven ground?
I know you're 'supposed' to pour a slab.
But let's say you dont and you'll use adjusting machine feet to compensate the ground.
I know how to level a lathe and analogous to that you'd probably want to pull the ram out and measure the entire alignment to set up a shaper.
There must be an easier way.
Lets say the machine has either 4 or 6 feet. Wrenching feet until they all end up at the same torque seems wrong to me as this means equal load per foot but ignores actual weight distribution. one could determine the center of gravity first and calculate how great of a share each foot needs to carry but again it's unpractical.
In case of the machine with 4 feet I sort of have the idea of balancing it on 2 diagonal feet and then cranking the opposite ones out until they are at equal load (this assumes the center of gravity is symmetrical in one direction) but the 6 foot machine would again not work like this.
I sort of suspect one wants to just measure the underside of the machine between feet to make sure it's straight.

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>>3002068

>>3002034
a shapers about at the far end of the spectrum of wet noodle machine tools. theyre from an era of dirt floors or at best lumpy wood endgrain blocks. plus the nature of the cutting force requires the frame to be inflexible. and a shaper aint exactly a tenths machine gnawing away at some rough blob of cast iron with a hand forged gooseneck tool
i wouldnt bat an eye at shoving a shaper off the truck on the side of grassy knoll and making chips
t. working on a bakers dozen shapers

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>>3002078 >>3002705 >>3006934

>>3002061
My situation is like you describe: Got two shapers here, had a plander which is rather set up like a lathe, different story. I just put them anywhere and make chips, move them around once in a while.
But lately I wanted to tidy up and I always had the line from one of the shapers manuals in the back of my mind where it says to pour a slab and make sure it's flat within x, or the manufacturer wont guarantee dimensional accuracy.
Sure it may be a purely academic discussion but still: There has to be an established method and I believe you can run the gib just ever so slightly tighter if it's really dead straight.
On a sidenote: Recently I lifted the shaper on 6 feet somewhere else. I've put it on some blocks. I was surprised to find the blocks in the middle to be loose, i could just slide them through underneath. I left them under the feet, came back lately and found them to be completely stuck.
I think the machine has deformed by at least a mm and back again over the course of lifting it and setting it back down. This sure doesn't translate 1:1 to deformation at the top but I expect it to have some effect up there.
Otherwise it has something to do with the elastomer in the feet doing funny things.
>picrel shows the feet someone else put on
This one is my later addition to my shapers and slightly bigger than the one on 4 feet (flat base really, 4 holes for bolts). The planer was an entirely different beast but wasted way too much space.
It's just 'tism, OCD and curiosity if yiu want.

>>3002068
it would be pretty easy to experiment with flex by putting a mag base at the far outboard end of the table with the indicator zeroed on the vertical ways up near the top. then pry up on the machine base in a few spots and see how much it deviates
the rubber feet seem to me like the wrong choice as they negate the foundation connection. idk just gut feel
a hand poured 3 or 4" monolith pad under the machine footprint would be an improvement if you shop is otherwise lacking then level for setup convenience with hardwood shims
thats a gorgeous shaper in picel

>>3002078
Thanks.
>elastomer feet
I see the same issue. I wouldn't feel safe with full steam on any shaper that isn't bolted down and while it seems to make levelling less of an obvious exercise om the other hand I can see how the rubber might simply negate some roughness.
Shop floor is really nice btw. Like I said, it's an academic exercise mostly.
Not sure about your idea tho, prying in random places with a constant load results in deflection in other parts, depending on the geometry and the distance from center of gravity. But it wont tell you wether the machine is flat and every foot loaded according to the weight above it.
I'm thinking for the rams bed at least one might be able to use the ram, in place, as a straight edge. And some feeler gauge, see if the gaps change with the load on the feet.
Perpendicularity of the table shouldn't be too hard either. Perhaps cut test pieces and test that instead of being square it cuts square.

>>3002085
Have you tried sucking dick?

Not to solve your problem or anything…

I’m just asking because you seem like a fucking fag

You fag

>>3002278
Please go back to africa. You've been shitting up thread with your retarded nonesense and getting nothing done for ages.

>>3002034
You're overcomplicating this. There's a million reasons a machine frame can become bent or twisted over its lifetime so it's perfectly normal for its weight to not be distributed equally over the feet. Just do what everyone else does and align it with a precision level. Of course, any rubber feet can and will throw that off both over time and under work load, ideally you want to bolt it tightly to the slab, effectively integrating it into the machine structure.

>>3002597
I know that I am overcomplicating this and like I said, I have ran both shapers and a whole host of other machine tools without paying particular attention to this. Only on 'long bed' types of machines I used the well documented approach amd made sure it's straight.
I would still want to know how, in theory, one sets up a very stiff machine with any number of feet just like it was clamped on the milling machine in la factoria.

>>3002609
>a very stiff machine with any number of feet
Then it doesn't matter and it's more about stopping the machine from crashing through the floor or sinking into the ground by spreading the weight over multiple points. If your floor isn't particularly weak just crank it by feel until it feels about the same

>>3002620
>doesn't matter
As explained above: Negilible perhaps but the effect will be there. And since machines come ona spectrum from noodly toys to stout as frig there will be plenty of edge cases where the machine is not stiff enough to just sit on a pile of bricks but at the same not have a geometry suitable for easily checking alignment. Checking alignment would be dealing with symptom anyways, the root cause is the wonky foundation. As such there ought to be a commonly agreed on procedure that allows you to achieve good alignment with reasonable effort.
As I have explained above the machine, last time when I moved it, must have deformed first from lifting and then again deformed in the opposite manner when sitting on some blocks. Movement at the base of such magnitude certainly translates to some movement in critical places.
>inb4
just put her on 3 blocks and loosen the gib until she runs free
That's how you transform your situation into a thirs world situation.

>>3002620
forgot:
>about the same
but this is arguably stupid and retarded as there is no rational basis for the idea
a machine tool is not a homogenous cube. A lathe for example will be heaviest at the headstock and maybe heavy at the taikstock, lighter in between. Simply not taking measurements along the bed and cranking every foot so it 'feels the same' translatea the torque by means of the screw such that the load on every foot is equal. This will cause feet under the bed to share load from the far ends and uktimately raise the bed in the middle. Hence every normal functioning human ssts their lathe up using a level, test bar and or or other methods like taut wire etc.
Just that checking alignment is a bit overkill in case of a shaper especially if it includes pulling the ram, which in case of one of my shapers requires you to start draining the oil.

>>3002647
It's either rigid enough and you do whatever, or it's not and you use a precision level. If in doubt use the level. It will show deflection long before anything starts to actually jam.

Cast iron frame shouldn't bend any noticeable amount over time just from sitting on the floor unless it's cracked. Rubber feet can and will sag but you shouldn't be using them (or wooden blocks for that matter) anyways on a machine where feet alignment affects geometry (and if the manual says to pour a slab then it most likely does). They're just too spongy compared to both the machine and the slab underneath to provide any adequate support in this case.

Particularly for a shaper like this >>3002068 you don't need anything, it's beefy enough to keep ram and table geometry when not in use without any special feet alignment. But it relies on its front pair of feet to help resist cutting forces after you lock the table down so you want to make sure there's no slop in them, rubber feet included. The forces will also try to lift the middle feet upwards under heavy load so it might be not enough to just have them tight against the floor, you'll need to actually bolt them down using anchors.

>>3000900

> lead came to me asked me why I had scrapped 2 parts

Responded with:

> “This clapped out Bridgeport has more backlash than kunta kinte”


I got walked into HR and I had to sign a document that stated I won’t say that again and I have to sit through a training now

Am I fucked?

>>3002705
>shouldn't be using them
In case I didnt make it clear:
I was 'refurbishing' a little so I stashed several machines away, only for that purpose did I set them on wooden blocks. But you might be righg that it actually was the blocks that gave more than the base.
>jam
There's a wide range between aligned and jamming. Seen enough machines in my life where some doofus just relaxed the gibs whenever something was wrong.
>Rubber feet are spongy
True they allow motion. But it set up right the geo. etry will at least be close to what it should be at all times and what it should be on average.
>Bolt down
I always bolt down both shapers of course and their bolts are still there. Those things will really walk through the shop.
>For a shaper like this its irrelevant
That is not the point and it's quitw surprising I didn't get that across yet. Ignore the shaper if that helps. Imagine I had an undescript machine toolbor any other structure and it needed setting up on feet such that a previous alignment is recreated and it will sit free of ingernal stresses. Imagine it had N feet and accessibility to functional surfaces was poor - unlike the bed of a planer or lathe. This is not a new problem by any means and I bet there is a well documented method to achieve it that doesn't involve disassembly, autocollimators, test bars o algo. Probably some method by which to at least arrive at a close first guess.

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>>3002726
Just play possum for awhile and you will be fine.

>>3002783
>But it set up right the geo. etry will at least be close to what it should be at all times and what it should be on average.
Naw the moment you move some part of the machine to a different position, or put a heavy part onto the table, or there's some dynamic force, the loads on the feet change and all the alignment goes out of the window. Rubber feet are orders of magnitude softer than the machine itself and will easily give to any twist (remember we're talking dozens of microns of movement or less), so they effectively provide no support as far as geometry is concerned. They can also sag over time under load and swell from oil (even from touching oily chips on the floor), and it all depends on temperature and even humidity, so it will absolutely make trying to align a machine that's sensitive to it a living hell.

>This is not a new problem by any means
There's no such problem because small machines are rigid enough to not care, and you don't move large machines often enough for proper alignment to become a hassle. If you still really really need to, you can add or machine some reference points near the actual bearing surfaces to use for alignment.
Aligning by feet loading doesn't seem very reliable because you can ding or bend the machine slightly during the move, or fail to put it in exact same tool position and configuration (which is also important) and it will throw off your setup so you'll end up having to check the primary surfaces for alignment anyways. There's also the issue of both measuring the loads and recreating them accurately and without throwing the original alignment off in the process.

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>>3000900
amazon is cock blocking me. the bar stock for my caps was out for delivery and then they decided not today

>>3002726
You work for a faggy shop
Fitting

How feasible would it be to build and use a steam tractor to work a farm without spia bunch of chemicals onto the field?

>>3003179
Enjoy your boiler explosion

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>>3004199 >>3004498 >>3012185

its really gross to me that internal thread dial calipers are so expensive. Ive gotten this idea where I cut the tips off a caliper and then solder or epoxy some flat wire tips on. or maybe some thin plates that screw onto the sides with a little reverse finger to get in deep lol

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>>3004247 >>3004498

>>3004197
the real deal kit to do that isnt even expensive
but its impossible to gauge thread fit on an internal thread without a plug gage. a couple tenths if the difference between free running and too tight. and thats not even addressing the issue with correlating the major diameter and truncation flat at the crest
t. spent some time trying to more efficiently gage id threads

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>>3004498 >>3012628

>>3004199
I didnt even see this or that kit till I was looking at work. Im just going to get this caliper. I have another project im thinking about, a flashlight, so more thread cutting and hopefully no waste if I can measure better.

>>3000900
Dear machinist lords of very nice digitry:
How do I make 1:32 scale slot car gears at home? They're small 27-30 tooth, durable metal to drive the wheels.
Is this a $560 worm gear looking tool thing? Would you lost wax cast it? A cnc that can cut steel is too expensive compared to a cutting machine so far.
Idk, I'm lost and open to advice.

>>3004453
>make at home
>cheap
>low precision
How I do that:
Base circle method. 3D print the dividing plate when teeth numbers that a spindexer cant because I wont be cranking the indexer all day and fuck up once.

>>3004456
oh I forgot the actual cutting part:
Shaper.
But you can use base circle with a slitting saw or endmill really.

>>3004457
sorry for tripple post but since those gears hardly mattwr you can aswell cut profiles more like the clock and watch fags I dont remember what those profiles are called but they are far easier to cut. Also cutters are easy to make with just a round tool on a lathe.

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>>3004466

>>3004457
So I don't need this and a cutting tool?

>>3004458
They're going 30k rpm driving 109 gram frames.

>>3004461
You won't be freehanding it unless you want to invest copious amounts of time.
Don't get me wrong, hand fitting can be stupidly precise, it's amazing ehat you can do with a file and a piece of stone, sometimes it's required even but ITT (it's a stupid thread where no one ever gets help and everyone is retarded) it's all about machining.
Minimum you'll get away with is a drill press and creativity.
>cutter
like I said it's relatively easy to make for the watch type gears which are okay for your application.
>>3004462
rotational velocity and mass of the thing to be driven are not a basis for any meaningful estimate let alone calculation

>>3004453
cant you buy this shit?
my neighbor and his buddy lawnmower larry (rip) had a insane slotcar track that filled an entire 40x60 pole barn back in the 90s. they had 2 scale model drag strips and a full indy car circuit and were totally into it over the top. and drinking cheap beer
additionally the walls of the building were store racks absolutely loaded with new car parts and track shit etc for other slotcar nerds to come buy so it all existed at one point in time. has it all landed in the garbage dump by now?

>>3004467
It's all being sold dirt cheap by boomer's widows.
That being said custom gear sets are still gold because the mass produced ones are mass production quality.
Any chance you still have photos of this? I would completely nerd out.
Another thing is to be a cool guy, you have to have a niche nobody else is good at, and this fits that for sure.

>>3004471
>Any chance you still have photos of this?
i remember seeing a picture from the late 80s reposted in the throwback section of the local paper but cant find it online now
i remember going there with my pops about 1993 to try to find lawnmower larry because he had our mower for 6 months but hadnt fixed it yet. he liked drink beer and race slotcars way more than fix peoples junk mowers
theres about 5k chicken coop mcmansion houses where the barn used to be so everything is long gone now

>>3004475
yeah man, slot car shops and drive in movies and race what you bring drag strips are GONE

>>3004197
>>3004199
>>3004247
Do you even really need to measure the internal threads? If you're making something from scratch you can just make the external threaded part first and use that as a plug gage, and I'd much rather have a set of telescoping gages than that janky caliper.

That caliper won't work for thread measurements btw since the tips are lined up so it'll either go in crooked or one side will be in a groove while the other is on a peak if you can somehow hold it perfectly aligned, which you probably can't.

Also if you have a decent way of measuring an external thread you can just make your own plug gages.

Also also chances are it'll be cheaper and easier just to get a tap and use that instead of fucking around with internal single point if you're not in a production environment.

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>>3004704

Where the hell can I get some deburring blades which aren't made in Israel or China? I give enough of my money to Israel through my taxes and I don't trust bare metal stuff from China. I've been trying to find something comparable to the E-1500 blade from Royal which my workplace orders (Israel), but haven't had any success yet. There's gotta be something available made in USA, Japan, or Germany.

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>>3004713

>>3004694
>buying repacked noga blades at 10x markup
1st step would be cut the royal middlekikes out of the process
ive given up buying real kike blades as the chinkshit are just as good for me a $6/pk instead of $4 ea. i cant tell any difference in edge quality under the microscope vs shaviv or vargus genuine and theyre all better than those black oxide shank trash blades noga sells

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>>3004718

>>3004704
I bought some chink shit on eBay for ~$0.30/blade which I use for removing skins and rough edges (for context, I'm running a CNC router and mostly cutting stuff out of poly pro, crp-1, and grey pvc) and a RUKO handle and E100 blades (made in China) which I use for cutting out the cut pieces from the sheet. My employer just orders stuff from McMaster-Carr and that's where the Royal blades come from.

The chink shit blades are good for most situations, though I have to replace them more often and they don't seem to work as well on grey PVC right out of the box and need to be broken in a bit to deskin cleanly. I mostly just need to find something I can use to reliably debur drill holes for installing helicoils and small radius contours.

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>>3004713
plastic is so fucking gay to deburr
i mostly reach for a surgeons scapel with a #11 blade and cut the burrs off. but its slow and easy to fuck up parts and/or cut yourself
for holes i take new countersinks and hand sharpen then on the slow speed accu lap with a 3000 grit diamond wheel then run them really slow in the drill press which mostly avoids chatter
anything i can i will run edge breaks with a 45 deg or small radius wood bit on the router table. between the bearing guide and the fence its easy and fast to get nice consistent results
t. no quotes uhmw jobs

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>>3005249 >>3005252 >>3005257 >>3006936

I need some cheap calipers to measure in metric what should I get?

>>3005230
Cheap, good, new. Pick two.

Also, Chinesium digital calipers are dogshit.

>>3005230
I've heard the iGaging ones are decent for the money. Look at the absolute ones they make, they shouldn't rape batteries like other cheap calipers do.

>>3005230
get one with a vernier scale. It's impossible to fuck up the manufacturing, it will be accurate to at least what it states.

>>3005257
>get one with a vernier scale. It's impossible to fuck up the manufacturing

I have two vernier calipers that are so badly made that the start and end of the vernier scale are off by almost a full half a mark. Never underestimate the power of bottom-dollar production.

>>3005257
>>3005260
I was going to get the mitutoyo one but my dad is going to use it too and his eyes aren't as good anymore

>>3005364
I feel him there, I just turned 40 and trying to read a vernier caliper makes my head ache too.

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>>3005500

I have talked myself out of buying this. i love that it can be used as a manual machine and it looks cool. I cannot in good faith deal with 70s german computers. I hate troubleshooting modern stuff. If i had to diagnose and repair an issue using a manual in a language i dont understand i would burn my shop down.

You can get them "new" from german with a siemens controller but at that point i might as well just get a haas and actually have support in america.

>>3005499
so put linuxcnc or uccnc on it and make chips
haas will dryhole you repeatedly on anything older than 5 years and are the worst about doing everything they can to make user end repair in the control impossible

>>3005500
bknus if he keeps the kino controls and CRT and hacks it in

>>3005260
double the precission! I guess

so i know we call .0001 a "tenth"
whats the shorthand for .00001
saying something like "five one hundred thousandths" is a mouthful and i dont think thats even correct nomenclaturally

>>3000900
test

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>>3005701 >>3006933

>>3005673
.00005 = half tenth or 50 millionths
.000039 = micron = 40 millionths
hundred-thousandths arent really ever said like how commie units skip decimeters

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>>3006412

>>3005684
>commie units skip decimeters
They skip more than that. Last I checked they had 20 prefixes. Scratch that, I looked again and they added 4 more in 2022. So, 24 prefixes now. How many did they have in the beginning? 6. How many of those did everyday people use? 4. Now that we have 24, how many do everyday people use? 4. The same 4 from 1795? Yes.

Insanity.

>But they are in powers of 10 so they are easy to remember!
Yeah, except all the ones they added after the original 6 aren't. Once you hit mega/micro it changes to powers of a thousand. You'd be surprised how many people that grew up with the metric system don't know that a megameter is not 10,000 meters (kilometer times 10, 10^4) but 1,000,000 meters (10^6). Or that a gigameter is a billion meters (10^9). Of course, they never use those prefixes so why would they? Overall, I like the original system. Hell, I even think 'ares' are cute. What I hate is all the changes. Even when the changes made sense, its like, why didn't you do that originally if it was so important? It is not like we're new to the whole 'making measurements' thing. How did you miss that? Meanwhile we still use hectares even though they were dropped in 1960 and we will probably be using them until the end of fucking time. Like how the cubit is still in use in some places. Assholes.

One thing I absolutely will not cotton to is Celsius/Centigrade. The freezing point of water is zero? Really? That is not even that cold. And 100 is fucking boiling? Fuck. Fahrenheit had it right. 180 degrees between the two. For everyday people Fahrenheit is perfect. That way zero is fucking cold, 100 is fucking hot, and who gives a shit about anything else. Oh, you don't like that boiling is 212°? What the fuck do you care? When was the last time you had to get something to 212/100? Is is the boiling you want, not the fucking number.

For science? Rankine or Kelvin. Zero is zero and negative numbers can fuck off so there is no confusion. Fuck Celsius.

>>3000900
You vile cocksuckers... why can't I buy a multiple punch and die set in a half dozen sizes in the same shape? They're all individual and simple shapes in steel NEED to be $80 each? It's for a shitbag arbor 1 ton making 1/8th inch sheet metal shapes in small batches.

It got worse. I was given a 6 ton press for free. It ended up costing me $200 because I wanted some shaping, cutting and pressing bits for that.

I...is this going to be more expensive than crack? Am I better off just doing crack?

>>3006386
>I...is this going to be more expensive than crack? Am I better off just doing crack?
Yes. Also yes. Probably be overall happier too...

>>3006387
I do find myself getting really mad a lot now. And measuring things in Normal and Communist.

>>3005701
The metric system is great and you're just too dumb to change habits.

Nobody uses decimeters and serious people don't use centimeters either, you make jumps every three powers of ten.

You'll use microns, millimeters, meters, kilometers. There's nothing you can't do with those.

Using freezing water as the zero for temperature means you know when it's freezing outside without remembering a random number.

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>300641too
t. yuro from a cuntry that hasnt had a manufacturing base in a 1/2 century

>>3006412
Have to buy new mics, gage blocks etc fuck that

>>3006412
basing a decimal system on the boiling and freezing of water, itself, is arbitrary and retarded. What are you trying to be smug about?

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>>3006477

>>3006429
never let the kommies forget they conceded and approximated the centimeter to 2.54 because they were sick of fucked up endless decimal conversion math yet try to write revisionist history propaganda that it was the other way around
turns out theres way more fudging the numbers in le science than they ever want to admit
t. dun research n shieeeeet at a clown college

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>>3006494 >>3006498 >>3006525

>>3006431
Every measurement has another more smug but also more logical alternative. This is endless.

Picked this up for $170 for my bullshit garage press (6t H frame chinee special). Sitll want square and D sets but this will do for now.
Significant savings even if I don't have the right press because it'll still work.
I'm dreading hte day I admit I NEED a milling set up.

>>3000900
Hi all.
I've recently finished building a furnace capable of melting roughly 55lb's of cast iron at a time, for use in casting and building a CNC machine for primarily machining metal parts. I'm planning on a belt driven spindle using a 1kw servo motor, Nema23 stepper motors (non-closed loop), haven't decided on the size of the ballscrews or linear rails yet.
Would it be better to design a mill style machine, or a gantry style one?
I am a little worried that the nema23 motors won't have enough torque to move a cast iron gantry around.
Are there any small quality of life features I should plan on trying to implement before I start designing in Fusion?

>>3006482
Well, I don't think you've thought of the sheet metal in the rails and the poor allen screws tasked with retaining a cast iron weight you plan to throw around at high speed and direction changes.
Or like, what is it you're casting, the housing for the spindle, chock and axle? You can't wrap a couple bearing sets in something premade or sheet metal?
There is the other hardware to consider as well. I'd put rubber bushings between a lot too.

>>3006477
where unipunch frame?

>>3006477
You planning on punching a bunch of oval holes? For what?

>>3006494
Adapter for home press.

>>3006498
I want the american freedom to punch oval holes. And a few round ones. And round dimpling about 2 and 3mm deep.
So I'll want to be punching square ones, but I am already circle capable.

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>>3006520 >>3006521 >>3006525

>>3006513
>Adapter
dont reinvent the wheel copernicus
a unipunch chassis is only like $50 on egay

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>>3006538

>>3006514
First of all you're kink shaming me.
I can rip the skin off my knuckles andy way I wish.

>>3006498
picrel

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>>3006514
Oh how nice. Another fiddy. No don't worry, I'm obviously out of my head.
Fuck.
*click* buy

>>3006514
I'm sorry for the way I'm about to make you feel, namely icky, but I'm going to buy wilson punch and dies with spring returns, and hell cometh to Frogtown.
Idk what unipunch fits>>3006477

>>3006525
>Idk what unipunch fits
if only there was a mfg catalog....
https://unipunch.com/parts-book/

>>3006520
Oh you're the slot car guy. I was wondering what kind of use oval punches would really be. I've rarely needed an oval hole, and really it was more of a slotted hole for sliding adjustment rather than an oval. Also what kind of thickness can you punch with 6 tons? Obviously lighter gauge stuff will be fine.

>>3006538
It's all light in my world. Every press I buy, someone will inevitably recommend the next weight level for "real uses". But it's great for everything I want.
I'm doing more than that but slot cars is my focus. I'm doing idiot suburb yard art. Home repair. Modding the smoker/grill a lot. Just shit.
I can punch slots and use slot, tab, notch based constructions too.
And of course think of the transmission plates in manual cars. Just slot dies really.
I don't need to make money or any thousand pieces. I'm just enjoying myself.

>>3006538
I'd also like to make contraptions that at least work badly once to drive my neighbor insane. He's a by the book 1970s throwback and if you're not using authentic not chinese OEM he's horrified. It ruins his day when I invent things.
"Well ya... ya got some tension problems, do you have a manual? Did you use ANY oil or anything? Have you got any lock-tite? Boy, you should just buy ____________."

Oh hey, that german pitch tar stuff used for stamping, can I recess a small shape in plate mild steel? Like circle or oval, by stuffing a die for a floor plate?
Or is that forbidden unorthodox thinking?

>>3006590

I don't know what you're talking about with german pitch tar, but do you mean like using a rubber sheet to form material over the die and push the material down into the oval? I'd imagine the dies would be too sharp on the edges and still try to shear the material, but if you're just fucking around you could try it anyways. Maybe use the bottom side of the die and chamfer it with a nice smooth radius and try that too.

>>3006604
No stuffing the die part way with a really stubborn hard pine tar to make a floor that stops the material and creates recess shapes. It's used in stamping copper. And it doesn't have to do a wonderful job, just kinda.

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>>3006825

Wow this fires off center shit pretty much across the room. I dig.

Sieg is a dumb ass because he doesn't know how to run a manual Bridgeport mill. He's also a dumbass because he can't understand Fanuc macros. Fuck that guy

>>3006714
Huh, I know way less than that.
I'm really considering buying fuckin pine pitch lol:
https://www.ottofrei.com/products/shallow-pitch-bowl-kit-6-1-4-x-7-8-german-red-pitch

>>3006714
I can drill holes and like face stuff with it on a good day


I use cnc machines in MDI for most of the manual stuff I need to though, plus enclosure and flood coolant and I don’t have to worry about out if climb milling will destroy my mill or not

>>3006704
I have the same one, how much did you pay for yours? I paid exactly 100 dollars shipped

>>3006825
$79 at the Depot.
It's nice, I see it's limits but I'd hardly exceed them. 1/4" flats and bars is about it, .032" cover plate steel is most of it. And softer decorative shit, brass, etc.
It took about $400 to get ovals, squares and padlock tab shape (1" by 1/2", rounded on one end and bent 90 degrees, needs drill hole). Standard 110v outlet die was most expensive.
They're spring return thankfully, not pound outs.

I didnt realize how expensive shipping can be. I saw a small shop for sale for 8000 with a bridgeport, a lathe, a band saw, a grinder and a welder.
But it would have been like $7000 to get it all shipped to my state. I see why some of these really big machines sell for so cheap used. It costs 4x as much to move it as the hammer price.

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>>3006918

>>3006889
so learn how to do your own rigging
most deals are cases of having about 3 hrs to make shit happen so you best have a trailer ready to go
in this day and age a rental drop deck and a pallet jack make it pretty easy for things under 5k lbs

>>3006892
In some cases it's cheaper to rent a vehicle from there to your destination for the equipment, and just fly there or something. You can basically devalue your tim and swap out the labor and driving end of the cost if that's a significant part.
Also look for an indy car seller. Wheels is wheels, they'll ship due buggies and all kinds of shit and all they want is roll on-roll off and the ability to drag it on with a winch. If you can pay someone to drop it on a rolling pallet or some shit you can probably negotioate a cheaper pickup on a half loaded car trailer.
Wait till it's "home" and then has to move 6 feet left lol.

how do i get my dad to stop destroying my parting tool holders and inserts?
he's destroyed 6 of them (not the inserts, the actual insert holders)

why is cast iron so fucking expensive?

>>3005684
i hate this shit so much
i need to cut metric threads
only way of cutting metric on my lathe is to leave the half nut engaged the entire time
i have to shut the machine off before the tool crashes into the chuck, switch gears to reverse and back out

is this common on all lathes or just dumb hobby bench tops?

>>3002068
is there a nicer sound in all of industrial processes than what a shaper makes?
i can't think of any
literally the most pleasing sound ever

>>3005230

I have igaging ones
they are fine
honestly probably overpaying with them
calipers are not precision measuring instruments despite what people parrot
cheap ones are just as good as mitus

>>3005252
yea the battery life on the iGaging shit is some black magic fuckery
i have no fucking clue how they last so long...my 4" calipers are 6 years old, I always forget to turn it off and have never changed the battery in it, it doesn't have auto-off either like the newer ones

>>3006937
Never heard of that brand everyone I’ve worked with uses mitutoyo

That auto off remember where it is feature is really nice

>>3006933
>s this common on all lathes
yes because of how an english thread is a inverse of an inch whereas metric are a multiple of a mm. the thread dial on reads off units of full and half inches relating to the travel of the pitch of the leadscrew. say the leadscrew is 4tpi so every 4 turns equals 1.0 inch of lead. so when its turning without the halfnuts in youre watching for the point to come along tver coincides with a multiple of 1 inch that evenly divides into the pitch of thread youre cutting. hence why even pitchs are any mark because in a 1/2 inch theyre still a whole number
metric on an english screw is a can of worms because the mm pitch doesnt evenly divide into whole inches that are read off on thread dial. in theory there is a number of turns where the multiple of the mm pitch will sync up with a whole inch but it would take usually high hundreds to thousands of turns of the leadscrew to reach the point and theres no way to count plus the time would be hours
even metric leadscrews suffer because for example 0.7 pitch to cut doesnt evenly divide into a 5mm lead screw so if you open the halfnuts the sync is lost

>>3006962
theres a trick to cutting mm threads with a thread dial on any lathe
you engage on 1 or whatever at the start and that will be your number for the entire job. so you cut up to the end of your thread and open the nuts and pull the tool back if you dont have a relief. then immediately turn off the spindle. now slowly reverse the spindle until 1 (or your number) on the dial backs up to the mark then reengage the halfnuts and use spindle reverse to move the carriage back to the start of the thread and take your next cut as usual repeating the process

>>3006714
>because he can't understand Fanuc macros.
On this note, I'm kinda stoked because I start CNC/programming classes in a few weeks, and my school has been all-Haas for years but they JUST got and installed a lathe (DN I think?) with Fanuc and a Mori VMC with Mori's own controls.

I guess I'm the opposite of Sieg there, I've just spent a year on Bridgeports and manual lathes (plus some supporting stuff that feeds into CNC like CAD classes, QA/reverse engineering, etc.) and only now about to start a year of CNC.

>>3006967
fanuc is great for documentation and user side repair but holy shit did the nips make the control interface fucking bullheaded retarded like needing multiple screen changes to set simple fucking offsets
idk why cnc controls have to be this gayass walled garden thats hard to use and thats not to mention super retarded shit like backwards offset direction on daewoo lathes
mach3 is fucking trash but its so goddamn nice to just use the mouse to click on the axis position box and type "/2" and instantly halve the value or whatever you want. and then run cad/cam on the same screen and do 1 off shit in minutes without transferring a file or having to fuck with wear offsets

>>3006963
So basically you make sure the thread dial doesn't make more than one revolution and back it up to get back on the same thread again? Makes sense.

>>3006971
For me it's mostly just that Fanuc seems to be by far the most common in the industry so having some familiarity with it is a big leg up vs. only knowing Haas.

Japan has always been fucking awful about software UI/UX in general. I've experienced it across all kinds of industries - car infotainment, camera menus, printer software, and so on, it's all super clunky and always looks and feels like something from 15 years before it actually came out, which is especially bad now because the early 2010s were a terrible time for software.

>>3006963
I tried this from the Oxtools vid on it but I can't change gears on my lathe when it's running, when I put it in reverse I still have to wiggle the lead screw or spindle to get the reverse gear to mesh and this screws up the position of the halfnut on the leadscrew.

>>3007110
reverse the spindle not the geartrain tumbler
if you move the gear reverse during threading you lose sync between the spindle and leadscrew
theres lathes with a dog clutch leadscrew reverse but you dont have one

>>3006967
> Moris own controls

Nah senpai Japanese Machines are either Mitsubishi like mazak or fanuc

The German and albeit shitter side of the Mori partnership with that weird wireless service key and shit is Siemens


Easiest tell is open the cabinet, bright yellow deco drives are fanuc white is mitsu

Mori calls shit msg msx or whatever else as a gimmick

>>3007002
Probably but i don’t think manufacturing is really an industry where you need to worry about such things. It’s literally a dying industry stateside.

A fanuc backed machine isn’t any less proprietary than haas controls/ Linux/ Unix backed

When you buy a machine from doosan sure it’s fanuc backed but there are a ton of dn solutions side lockouts, additional fees, / service tech only and proprietary features even I/o stuff despite it talking to a fanuc system overall no real benefit imo

I’m also unsure if even bothering to learn conversational via mapps, mazatrol and whatever okuma calls their shit to be a good investment in time.

You’d be better off learning how to fix the McDonald’s ice cream machine as a crew lead and make more than most programmers I knew in a past life

>>3007146
>>3007157
I haven't even seen the machine yet so I'm only going off of what the professor who teaches the CNC classes said when I ran into him a few weeks ago. From what I know it's a pretty new and expensive 5-axis machine that another college bought and then decided they couldn't afford to run. I see that the controllers can look nearly identical externally whether they're Fanuc, Mitsu, or Siemens, and they don't look like panels you see on other brands, so maybe he just didn't realize they were other brands underneath, he's an ex-mil guy so probably never worked with the newer stuff. I'd guess Fanuc since the other machine that came from the same school is running.

Manufacturing is thriving in my area, but I know it's one of the few. Entry level here pays better than a guy with 5 years of experience makes in LA, despite rent being 1/3/-1/2 the price. I can go to Boeing or one of the other union shops in the region and make $65+ within 6 years there, and from what I've been told by people who work there I probably have a solid shot of getting in since I can pass background and drug tests, which already puts me above 95% of people in manufacturing.

Also those Doosan-made machines are ruined for me ever since I realized it was Deez Nuts Solutions.

>>3007160
If it’s 5-axis it’s likely a DMU, probably Siemens

Good luck lol, those things are worse for right to repair than a John Deere tractor, 2000 hour service lockouts etc

>>3007114
ok, will try

>>3007162
I could be wrong about 5-axis too, but yeah, from what I heard the other school bought it and then chickened out when they found out what it'd cost to fix when a student inevitably crashed it. My school does things differently and makes people take manual classes before they can touch a CNC, and then will make people start on the Hass machines before they touch the Mori, so they're more confident in not having to fix it all the time I guess, and the time-based maintenance won't be as big of a deal in a school where the thing only runs like 8 hours a week.

>>3007222
Moris and Mikron and anything heidenhein or Siemens is like a walled garden

Very hard to crash in relation to like a haas 3 axis, meant for production for fortune 500s with service contracts with Mori…

I’d question the decision making skills of a school admin buying one, not much to teach you there

It sounds like you’re in an engineering program

You’ll probably learn more from a clapped out fiberglass spaceship enclosure haas fucking limping along with a chattering transformer held onto the fuck g casting with bent rusty unistrut than on a Mori

Spindle overheat alarm, Mike retap that transformer again bro

>>3007162
do people that run 5 axis get paid more?
would one of those new 5000 dollar desktop 5 axis machines teach how to run them efficiently?

>>3007250

> Run
Depends what you mean by this

> operate
No

> setup
No


> program
Yes, and mill turns and lathes with multiple turrets and multiple axis like b y etc live tooling

> service

Yes, but keep in mind 5-axis parts are stupid expensive, $550 for a renishaw it’s tool setter used off eBay about. I could probably get one for like $300-350 through my junker pals if I needed

Blum laser tool setter? You’re talking about a brand new price of at least $23,000

So higher risk higher reward


> Chinese desktop 5-axis mills

I don’t know… never had one. I’m not sure if anyone with 5-10 years of experience saying “I got one of those desktop toy milling machines at home” will help you get a decent job.

It might help you get a basic operating job though to get your foot in the door after trade school because it shows you have enough interest to put money on the line and won’t job hop though?

Idk I’ve only hired 1 person and that guy quit so don’t take it like I’m some master hiring manager you’re better off asking a recruiter that question

>>3007250
>>3007252
I'm the trade school anon, desktop 5 axis guy wasn't me. Personally I think you'd be much better off with manual machines if anything, from what I've heard a constant complaint from employers is that CNC operators and programmers don't understand the actual principles behind what they're doing well enough because they don't have that foundation.

Really though, for that kind of money, just go take some classes, most local/community colleges will have some kind of machining classes even if it's not as extensive as my school's program. You could also look into makerspaces but it's a crapshoot whether they'll have anything worth using, my local one has machines that have respectable bones (a Bridgeport brand Bridgeport and some quality vintage American lathe, but when I looked at them they were filthy, had antiquated toolholding, no DROs, etc.)

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>I made this CNC completely from scratch, totally DIY guys!
>I started by loading this aluminum stock into my CN-
*exits video*

>>3007344
When I worked as an operator we would only use manual machines for reworks, stock prep (if we got a particularly shitty bar cut batch) or just fixture repair

I cut lenses for movies that you probably watched in theaters on an old Korean whacheon though

The problem is most machine shops run lean now, 1 man 7 machines. You can’t really make your numbers for the day if it’s 7 manual machines

Set one machine up, cut a 1A , send to qc set the other cut the 1A while that’s in process and keep going down the line


people romanticize production - some guy that’s taking time painting layout fluid

that’s not really how production works in America

First of all, if you don’t hit your numbers you can be put on a PIP, written up or just let go

I had 30 seconds between yellow light to green light per machine including measurement time

Production is stressful, it’s not slow you need to fucking move

The reason why I have so many snap-on ratchets and impact drivers is that I’d stage each machine with all the tools I needed,
Tq wrench, ratchet, impact drivers, hex bit socket in 4mm and 5mm

I see an m30, slam door open, impact driver on the Kurt vise , vrooom… part out out, wipe it down, measure it. Log it on inprocess inspection sheet,

New piece of aluminum, impact driver closed until click click , grab tq wrench click, slam on harbor freight deadblow to seat that material to parallels cycle start run to the next machine or setup

You really don’t have time to even sit there adjust the knee on a knee mill these days

I used a ridgid impact driver on the knee and even then it was slow

I know you’re in a school environment right now but it’s cycle time is king as an operator and you do that until you can knock out a simple 3-axis setup in under 5 mins

And the operator is at fault if quota isn’t being met

if you meet that quota it gets raised next month so you’re always behind

I’d make 110 minimum small parts daily

>>3007380
Like, there was a common scenario where I’d have 3 side lock cat40 holders in one hand, bondhus Allen keys in my pocket and end mills in another

I’d sprint over to the fixture, quickly set those tool holders up, touch those tools off to my 1-2-3 block I made , adjust the offset (remove the 1” from my block to sett the tools on an invisible plane) then move part stops quickly probe or edge find them

I also had this pretty slick move where I’d rubber band my parallels together and I’d sharpie 1.375” or whatever size they were

And I’d index and pinky one set against the vise with my right hand and my left hand I’d evacuate the old set and keep them in a box near the machine… I could swap work offsets in less than a minute

https://youtu.be/Iu392JZK4tA?is=ZqThq9CvwwgeSFi0

Watched a few of these ender 3 wire EDM conversions and they seem promising. Thoughts?

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>>3007955

has anybody bought a Ditron dro from their website or do you go through a third party like ebay or amazon? Ive been thinking about getting this for a bridgeport. Would I need RS422 if I am using a rotary phase converter? Ive heard these mills are pretty noisy but everything I have read they don't need it but its cheap insurance.

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>>3007937
i did a toauto on a chikom bp knockoff for a farmer for $180 off epay which was the cheapest place i found it. works better than expected and easily repeats within a half thou with an edgefinder
i put sino ka200 micro scales on another machine that i ordered straight from aliexpress in the pre tariff days. it was impossible to get the chinks on the other end of the line to get me a non standard configured scale so i made it work with the cable coming out of the wrong end of the reader for my use. theyre knockoffs of knockoffs and all have the same serial number but 2 micron scales were $65 ea and confirm against an interapid tenths indicator so id do them again
if i was doing another bp id buy the nicer lcd readout box off ali and maybe a toauto 3 axis kit for the scales and resell the box for $50 because that would be the easiest and cheapest way to get the right sized scales
its a joke to see guys putting micron scales on bps because the nicest real bp in the world will can be flexed a full thou just by pulling on the vise handle

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>>3008137 >>3008158

I don't do machining but I've always wondered - when applying knurling what keeps the pattern consistent when doing multiple passes? I would think odds are it doesn't perfectly line up so you would end up with the pattern overlapping and offset and it would just look like a mangled mess, but whenever I see videos it always just magically lines up. Does the machinist actually measure this out or is the tool designed so the die slips into place on multiple passes even if it's not perfectly lined up?

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>>3008158

>>3008135
careful youre touching on 1 of the longest standing circlejerk debates to exist in the sphere of boomoid machinists
both sides are fully committed to dying on their hill of measure vs mash it in

>>3008135
>>3008137
Whether you measure or not, the first few passes never line up perfect, but once the grooves are pressed in deep enough the knurl will slip to bottom of the groove even if the spacing isn't perfect. If you go slow with a ton of pressure, you can actually hear the tool slip occasionally, but as it runs it'll even out.

>no safety equipment
>no women no HR just bros making things as god intended
>no computers
>some trash looking slum building outdoor area
>just bigass metal moving around and manual tools

How does one open a pakistani style machining shop?

>>3008809
I used to work at one like that, small business 3 engineers, 1 old timer , and they’d hire a young guy to cycle through 2-3 years at a time and train you up from zero

You have to provide all your own tools, cutting tools and you also learn how to fix a machine.

My first day I learned what a cnc mill was, I learned what a setup for it was, I learned how to tram a vice, enter the offsets, learned how to use an edge finder and when the machine broke down I learned what an alarm was … what a vector drive was, how to use a multi meter on one to see if it was failing and how to swap one from a sister machine

$18/hr

>>3008827
>no steel toe flipflops
>no toxic fumes with no PPE
>no rusted metal furnace

fraud you aren't a nigerian mechanic or bangladeshi hand made sewing machine craftsman

>>3008845
We had a broken royal products mist collector that had exposed wiring

And no functional mist collection system at all though

Does anyone here use Fusion 360 cam?
I can't figure out how to set XYZ coordinates if I want to change things, it always changes 2 parameters instead of one.

If I want to flip X and Y, it will only do so if Z gets flipped too, or it will just change box point selection to some random shit.

Most retarded fucking shit ever. I always spend like 15 min changing random shit in the WCS until it finally lands on the right set up. I cannot figure out how the hell this thing works.

>>3009053
I literally start two Fusion CAM classes (mill and lathe) tomorrow so maybe I'll have an answer for you then lol.

>>3009053
>Does anyone here use Fusion 360 cam?
Yeah it's alright
>I can't figure out how to set XYZ coordinates
Skill issue, never had a problem with this

Hi, is this the CAD general too? Im getting into it and I would like to know a good course to start. I would like to start making some design small parts for repair stuff like spares from old devices that need it.Thanks in advance

>>3009296
First step is you ask yourself

Cad I start designing parts for myself ?

I did some IRL courses using solidworks, how can i get a job doing CAD shit?

>>3006494
reporting back...
home made adapter broke 4x.
Bought incorrect unipunch size. Bought correct size again, shipping fucked up, it's on it's way again.
There's a $140 mistake. Ebay niggers measure incorrectly then try to defend it. Using press punches at home is "unwise", however with a frame they are handy for odd shapes.

>>3009359
Get yourself masters in mechanical engineering.
>>3009296
Freecad is free and works.

>>3009591
>Get yourself masters in mechanical engineering.
figured as much. is there really no other way?

>>3009620
Start a business.

>>3009359
>>3009591
There is such a thing as a CAD draftsman job but I have no idea how many exist anymore or how you get one.

If you're competent with metrology you could do reverse engineering, I know a guy who works at a shop that specializes in making replacements for aircraft components when the original prints have been lost, and I'm sure it's not the only place like that.

>>3009679
>CAD draftsman job
been applying for those to no avail for months now

>>3000900
Anyone have hands on experience with the makera z1. Im not about to open a shop with a 2ton 300k machine earning the money back. But it would be nice to be able to occasionally machine aluminum parts to supplement 3d printed parts in my hobbys. 1k is very reasonable to have access to making custom brackets etc.
Theres also the tooldance x1 coming out that looks really appealing and I would consider the kick starter price as a huge gift to myself as im afraid of outgrowing the z1.

Had a presentation at school today from a company that's offering an internship soon, with a likely job to follow, and it'll involve programming right from day 1. All of my experience is in Fusion, they use Siemens NX, and I'm installing the student version right now. Anybody got any good tips about the switch?

Is it worth the time and effort to attempt making a gingery lathe? Are they legitimate tools or just a gimmick?

>>3010255
Mostly a gimmick afaik. It's something you do as a hobby project if you're into casting and the other processes involved. Everything I've heard/read says they're not really viable tools and I think you could buy and restore (if necessary) a real lathe for less than it'd cost to do a gingery if you don't already have all the casting stuff etc.

Bossmang doesnt care the milling bits are dull
He even gives a limited check for new ones, which is highly avoidable and expensive
How do i convince him to buy a mill sharpening tool from alibaba
Or do i buy myself one
I havent made a financial transaction in my life and im old

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>>3010296
why the fuck would you invest in the infrastructure of his garbage business
does he pay you piece rate for production?

Ive got about $12k and 220v 3phase to set up a hobby shop. From reading forums and watching videos i feel like i should have enough to get started.
Any advice for machine shopping? What can i realistically expect with this budget. A mill and lathe seem like the absolute basics. A band saw seems like it would be nice to have as well.

>>3010584
theres a milltronics retrofitted cnc on tbe pm forum right now (no affiliation) which would be the type of machine id be looking for if i was in your situation. a regular bridgeport is great (im fanboy #1) but they take years of experience and piles of tooling to do oddball assache operations that a cnc can do in 2 minutes with the part clamped flat in the vise. find something with an cat40 spindle vs rb because its so much better for repeatability and rigidity and tooling is stupid cheap
lathes are peculiar beasts. theres a world of difference between a sub $1k and $2500 machines but then it quickly becomes a law of diminishing returns. so wait around for a deal and buy the absolute best lathe you can. a square head clausing 15 or a nardini 14 are ok midsize machines. avoid chinkshit like the plague and anything with an open flat belt drive (antique shit)
and of course figuring out how to move this shit will also come into play

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>>3009851
lmfao youre getting the geezers absolutely assmad on the boomerforumz
fuckers cant comprehend neetshit
but airsoft is fucking gayer than aids

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>>3010915

What operation can I use in freecad CAM to mill out the highlighted partial pocket? The slot tool doesn't work because it's open on one side and the profile tool doesn't like it either, probably because the tool diameter is the exact width of the slot.

>>3010906
Nvm I manually sketched out a path to use for the pocket tool.

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>>3011307 >>3011472

I'm retarded and I hate looking at the sun. I bought this and 24th ed. Machinery's Handbook. Will I be able to successfully drive myself insane as a beginner?
thnx

>>3010255
If youve actually started to read the book, youll realize how impractical it is. You wont be able to acquire the scrap and other pieces of foundry stuff before its cheaper to just buy used chinkshit.

Chinkshit is substantially better than a gingery lathe

>>3009296
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVp4GX_z110

>>3011086
>I bought this

Good lord why? Return it if you still can and buy something that isn't a toy. Pretty much any other mini mill is an improvement over that thing

>>3011307
Because every other mini mill doesn't have it's track record, get made by europeans, and doesn't have a local service shop in it's network through Penn Tools. Any possible thing I don't like about it is guaranteed by old companies. There are a ton of hobby forum posts about it, 10+ year owners. Everything you wouldn't buy chinese for.

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>>3011470 >>3011534

>>3011313
You bought pic related and are talking about it as if it were a real car, it barely performs the functions of a milling machine. But you do you.

>>3011338
That's cool because the things I work on will be, roughly, toy car size.
Why do you think I bought the toy scale mill? Would you also be surprised to learn I have M.5 through M2.0 daps and dies and a number of them in between? Or that I will mostly be working with a wide screen lit magnified camera?
Of course I want service in ten seconds from a guy down the road, from a company that sells precision everything. The book I'm using some measuremnts from is "Watchmaking" by George Daniels.
You want I should get a bridgeport instead?

>>3011086
Yeah man they’re super ridged, faster tool changes than Chiron, better spindle than okuma, just really love hogging out material dude

Get a kennametal corn cob for it it’ll make chips all day

Faster rapids than a haas SS too

Heindehein controls right?

>>3011472
Heidenhain on an MF-70? It's a 100-watt spindle. I'll spend on tooling and metrology.

Schaublin control I think is the proper name but it's probably in some textbook nobody has.

>>3011338
>>3011472
Has anyone ever in history made a small machine that you would consider "good" for any reason? Lets define small as table top so like max minifridge or printer for reference.
I am not defending the proxxon this is a genuine question. I know there are physical limitations and they are not "bridgeport but tiny" but not everything can be junk. Surely at some point in the 19th or 20th century some autistic german or swiss built high quality mini machines.


Why are all the nice manual machines i find online in the mid west or california? Did the northeast really deindustrialize so long ago the only thing left is clapped out southbends or 20 year old cnc's.

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>>3011534
They all have shortcomings, but something like a taig or sherline is going to be infinitely better than that thing which is basically a dremel tool.

Pic related is the first part from my mini CNC which is a really old sherline model that was turned into a line of training centers sold to schools.

It could've gone better, I used some spoilboard to test the gcode which worked ok but then when I went to cut the aluminum it immediately slipped out on the first milling operation. I tried to relocate the part using the drill holes, but I guess it didn't matter because it either slipped during milling or more likely it's missing steps. The stepper motors on this thing are tiny. The dept of cut wasn't even deep, I'm going to try again with like 15 or 20 thou. Also it's running from linuxCNC on a pentium 4 so the computer could also be shitting bricks.

>>3011534
Not one of them, but Precision Matthews has a really good rep in terms of small machines that are available new. I don't know much about their bench mills but their fullsize stuff and their bench lathes are well-regarded so I'd imagine the little mills are decent too. I'm gonna find out in person how the "big" lathes and Bridgeport clones are soon because my school just ordered 4 of the former and 3 of the latter and they should be up and running by the time I take another manual class. (Probably not until next fall, I've got a full schedule of CNC through spring.)

>>3011534
If you want to mill or turn something you need ridgity which requires mass and geometry

You want a machine than can cut but has no mass and an extremely limited geometry

Maybe a laser of some sort

But you also limit it to 110v so

The answer is no otherwise everyone would have a bedroom machine shop

A Proxxon is for hand making one off parts for a hobby. Nobody is using them to make a bedroom machine shop because a bedroom machine shop would logically need to shape something other than soft metal at a snails pace.
You would have to be insane to Franken-CNC with one. I think your standards are enormously high for $450-500 bucks.
I make 5 inch race cars with electric motors. It seems made perfectly fine for that. Every "well it just can't do X" comment is a complaint about something that isn't appropriate for a 100w machine to begin with.

>>3011587
If you've got a specific purpose already lined up for it and it involves small parts with easy to machine materials then yeah, it's probably fine. The first post didn't really imply that though, it seemed more general and it's not enough machine for most things that most people would want to do with a mill, for capacity reasons if nothing else.

Even with that in mind though the lack of a quill and limited speed control could be issues.

>>3011584
https://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/
Here is a photo if an aciera f1. I have no experience directly with them but it js an old precision mill from switzerland. Eye balling it i would say its about mini fridge size, and just going off the reputation of the swiss i am going to assume it was a good machine within its envelope.
It seems to me there is not much on the market in this size.
Again its not a replacement for a knee mill and you cannot hog out massive cuts but for seems like it would be adequate for what a lot of people looking for desktop mills/cnc's would do.

>>3011600
Just looking at those machines you can tell they would've cost about as much as a car back then.

This shit is so easy ngl
First time running a mill this week haas dt2, did my first setup without issue

No supervision no training no guidance I just took 2 days to skim the manual and googled some stuff

I’ve always been an engineer and this shit looked way harder than it really is I’m ngl I am no longer that impressed by our setup guys

>>3011623
for sure they are not on the same level as a $1000 micromachine like the proxxon posted earlier.
It was more of an example for the class of machine i am asking about. Theres proof it existed at one time but i cannot find a modern equivelent anywhere.
The market for an expensive small manualish machine is probably much more narrow than i expect. Everyone says they want one but no one wants to actually pay for it.

I have a hard time with machine prices though because you can buy a mostly working bridgeport for like $2-3k but brand new they would probably be $30000 today. Wells index makes the closest i think and the base model is like $28000.

>>3011651
You can still buy a brand new Bridgeport. They're about 25k.

>>3011677
>brand new Bridgeport
you mean a chicom knockoff with bp placards. its been many years since they were the real thing

>>3009359
>>3009591
>>3009679
>>3009691
Aight lads i got a job interview for CAD draftsman and they want to do some kind of test using Inventor, how different is it from Solidworks? Am i good or should i be worried and try to somehow learn it in 2 days?

>>3011631
Hold .0003" on a lathe older than you. Fine tune the feeds and speeds to make parts faster and make tools last longer. Create a macro that automatically switches to a new rougher in a different tool position after a certain number of parts. Its not all speaking into the microphone on the machine and telling it what you want it to do

I've designed a new logo for my company that is the company name over a big pair of tits. Going to machine it into a block of stainless to show it off. Wish me luck fellas

>>3012033
It’s different but they’ll probably give you the job because they’re thirsty for motherfuckers

>>3012033
It's similar but also different. Autodesk interfaces are all ass backwards in my opinion, but then again I was raised on lightwave/blender and solidworks.

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>>3012105

>>3012033
I use Inventor exclusively, I find that I can fumble my way in Solidworks okay. If you don't have access to Inventor, you may try to install Fusion as it's fairly similar.

>>3012096
i fucked around on Fusion a bit and did okay, how similar is it to Inventor, really?

>>3011677
Full working bridgeports are on ebay for $2200+$700 shipped

>>3011651
I think those are $12k for a really nice one right now. There is a range in the middle, SEIG, Matthews, Little Machine, Grizzly.

Idk everyone wants a CNC. Not only do I work on tiny things, I more often shave and adjust tiny things, or reshape them. I have a great use for beveling a pocket to make m1 bolts sit flush for example.
But I want a little machinist LARP just because. It's interesting and I like the fiddy bits. There's LOTS of fiddly bits and measuring.

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I am spending way too much money on a home shop but i guess thats ok. Some guys get sports cars or boats, i want a machine shop.
Ive already got a bench grinder, a drill press, and welding stuff. 99% of the projects i would like to do should be more than covered.

>>3012133
Personally I'd be nervous about buying a Bridgeport off the internet, I'd have to check it out in person and honestly I'm not even that confident in my ability to identify any real issues with one that way (stuff like whether an axis is actually fucked or if it's just a gib that needs to be tightened or whatever) but at least I'd be able to tell when something really obviously wasn't right.

>>3004197
Your internal threads are the depth of the fucking tap threads+external thread

Whats a good beginner project for someone just learning to write code by hand?

>>3012152
Don’t buy a Bridgeport off the internet, don’t have unprotected sex with the girls you met off a dating app

Man you guys are so fucking lame

Raw dog life

If it's a $2+k purchase, you can pay a local who isn't involved 50 or 7p bucks to go look at it. I bought an 8k car and did that to a mechanic 3 blocks away. That was 45 bucks for him to spot an issue or two but find it still OK.

>>3012238
I used to work at a BMW M specialist and we did a lot of PPIs like that. Finding somebody who's competent and willing to go look at a machine for you might be trickier though.

>>3012253
Many times it's a little good conversation working and the open willingness to bribe, or suggest a "Misc Serv" charge you both agree on.
So if you can find someone to go look at it, think of it this way; you could get a good price on a workable or logically reparable Bridgeport, or you can find $20k bucks. That's gotta be worth a C note or so.

>>3012306
I get you there, it's just hard to even find somebody to do it at all when a machine is halfway across the country in some place where you don't know anybody.

>>3012316
What city or town? I'll find someone and post their business number and deets.

>>3012324
I'm not the anon who's actively looking for a machine right now, I was just saying that it could be hard in general. I know that it'd be a real struggle in the city where I live, we don't have a single machine service business and the closest one is 3 hours away over a mountain range and it's super expensive whenever we need to get anybody out for my shop. I personally know a person or two that I'd trust here (professors in the local college's machining program) but some random person looking at a machine from the other side of the country wouldn't be able to find them.

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>introduction to machine shop class
>running whisperai on my machine to transcribe a recording
i think uh there might be some bias in what the computer is hearing

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I've never seen a trans machinist

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>>3012587 >>3012598

>5 years machining
>making over $100k
>cute asian gf
>under 30
Why do people still say machinists arent able to make much money?

>>3012499
Add up all the machinists there are in the US today. Now compare that to how many there were 25, 50, or 75 years ago. It is no longer a field that can employ a significant number of people like it once did. While *you* are making good money you can't find the same job for all your friends.

I do IT work for a company that does custom fabrication. I've spoken with the old guy running the place. He said that at their peak when his dad ran the place they employed about 200 people and everything was done on paper. Now they have a half dozen people doing CAD and a few dozen people working on the floor. Half of those people make slightly more than someone working at McDonald's in my area and just load and unload CNC machines. Most of the rest are welders. They have two guys that handle manual milling and lathe operations, mostly for repairs on heavy/farm equipment.. They have a couple of CNC plasma cutters that run 24 hours a day. The business is more successful, has more work, and has higher output then it has ever had before and it is running on 1/4th the staff, only two of which are actual machinists. Their used to be half a dozen shops like that in the area. Now there are two, even though demand has gone up a lot during that same time.

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>>3012587
>making good money
likely 100k in a leftcoast liberal utopia where thats borderline poverty
>>3012499
>asian gf
yep kommiefornia

>>3012587
There are actively companies trying to make less and less machinists employed everyday

Fanuc, Hadrian, CloudNC

>>3012219
Honestly this. If it looks good it's probably fine. $2k isn't life changing money, so oh no, it's got some worn ways. Learn to work around it and use it anyways. Buy the next real nice local one you find if you absolutely must upgrade and then sell off the old one to someone else. It's not a lifetime commitment or anything.

>>3004247
That looks like it would measure the root instead of the pitch diameter.

>>3006482
>I've recently finished building a furnace capable of melting roughly 55lb's of cast iron
post pics

>>3007380
I hope I never have to work in this kind of environment. I started in a prototype shop where a big order is 8 of something.

>>3011313
You want a Taig for small hobby things or Sherline for really small hobby things.

>>3012619
Ways being worn isn't the end of the world, you could flame/plasma spray coat it with new metal and scrape it flat again. It's a shame the equipment isn't more common though considering how simple the process is.

>>3012634
I genuinely don't hate the Proxxon. It's the first tool I've trued and trammed. It's repeatable, in aluminum and I have yet to test brass. Although I did not expect this level of tool clog from the stock lol, I have a bunch of desktop CNC end mills and they work nicely aside from that.
On the other hand I need an oil tray to feeder pipe arrangement with a little pump. Lost on that one.

>>3012673
You don't need flood coolant on a micro mill. A little spritz of WD40 is great cutting fluid for aluminum.

>>3012673
That little dremel tool head spins way too fast for endmills, you're rubbing the cut aluminum which is causing galling.

>>3012673
Wrong tooling or wrong speeds and feeds. You don't need an oil feeder or anything, just get appropriate cutting oil for your material (A9 works well for aluminum with HSS tooling) and brush a bit on before a pass. That's how we did it on Bridgeports in my college shop and I got nice finishes and never had issues with clogging or anything.

>>3012687
The proxxon speed is variable, it's not IN a dremel.
This:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-Max-Life-1-8-Tungsten-Carbide-Rotary-Carving-Bit-9901HP/313268573
and this:
https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Dremel-Max-Life-5-16-Rotary-Carving-Bit-2-Pack-115HP/317925228

So I should call them "things which fit in the place an end mill should go". They are however shaping the material well enough until I kill them.

>>3012757
Dremels are variable too, but that anon was just comparing it to a Dremel since it's tiny and high speed.

If you're using bits like the ones you linked it's no wonder they're clogging up, too many flutes and too shallow to effectively clear chips from aluminum. I see that Proxxon sells a set of 2 flute endmills, they're not cheap but they're probably what you want.

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>>3012853

What kind of fluid should I use for cutting aluminum with a 3 axis machine? Should I use water soluble or cutting oil? I just set this up on 3 axis avid

The more I learn about machining and the closer I look at my Chinese mini lathe, the more I realize what an absolute piece of shit it is. There is not a single part on it that doesn't need reworked.

>prismatic ways are not quite 45/90 degrees
>saddle doesn't make good contact with the ways
>ways vary in thickness from one end to the other so saddle has to be slightly loose
>tail stock quill isn't parallel to the bed
>tail stock offset cannot be adjusted so centers are parallel to the bed

I don't have much space and I only have 115V power so I'm probably stuck with benchtop machines. Are brands like Grizzly actually that much better?

Don't tell /k/ but I'm thinking about selling a rifle to fund a new lathe.

>>3012816
If you can swing $3k-ish, Precision Matthews benchtop machines are supposed to be about as good as it gets these days, and they run on 110v.

>>3012816
I have a stupid $80 wood one. They're junk, get a grizzly or step up like the other anon said to a matthews.

>>3012816
Also my high ass missed the rifle part.
You, also, must be high in this market. Sure you can sell but you can't buy. Being capable of machining, you must be dreaming up mods for it.
Don't sell a rifle, I sold one to take a plane trip to bang a hot chick and in the end I want the gun back.

>>3012763

Are you running production on this? Get an aluminum-specific cutting fluid if you are. Otherwise, using a general-purpose cutting fluid will only cost some potential speed/tool life/surface finish. Barring the ones that will stain aluminum, anyway.

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>>3012816
I just bought another 7x10 after having sold my 7x14 years ago. I need a lathe for an upcoming project and don't have access to my big one right now.

I haven't even turned it on yet and it's as bad as I remember. Worse, really, since I have less bed length with this one. The compound gib is fucked and lets the tool tilt into the workpiece, just like my old one. Change gears are ass, and this one didn't even come with any (fine, because I was going to do a bare-minimum CNC conversion). It doesn't even go any faster than my big lathe, so it's not even any better for small parts.

I'm dreading having to use this thing so much that I'm already looking for other options on CL, despite the fact that I already bought this one. If this guy takes my offer for an old Atlas, I'll absolutely just abandon the 7x.

I'm not necessarily one to shit on small machines because they "can't do real work", but these SPECIFIC small machines really are just dogshit. Which is insane to me because they could actually be made to be a really good value for basically no cost. There's really nothing about the design that needs to be changed, just fucking make the thing correctly and throw in a QC toolpost, holy shit.


You say you have no space for a big machine, so that's out, and all the other very small lathes are overpriced. My only advice is be willing to drive 12 hours to get a mid-size machine worth fixing up. Unless you want the project of reworking/modifying the mini into something decent (for its class), you don't really have any other options outside of just throwing money at the problem.

>>3012854
I have a bunch of $80 desktop machines. I promise for some things I dearly love them but more often I want to throw them.
The lathe sucks in every way. It's maker owes an honor-suicide.
The little table saw is actually more useful than you'd think in wood anyway, after you align the shit out of it. But it's not bad to do, maybe 30 minutes of fuckery. It has a rotary wand on the side which is handy.
The 1" belt sander/2 wheel combo is VERY FAST and wants to burn itself alive. Kinda worth it for just the accessory pack too.
Mini precision drill; well I do small things, it's up to you. It does it's job at it's scale.
3D plastic handheld pen is VERY awesome for something you wouldn't think- gasketing and sleeving fasteners.
Genmitsu desktop CNC is a disappointment.
Creality desktop 10w laser is tits on toast.

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When using an endmill holder like this do you put the tool all the way out or in? Normally in manual milling I've experienced the tool getting pulled into thr work so I put it all the way out and then tighten the grub screw. But I've been running a sherline CNC and had the tool get pushed in for the first time.

>>3012853
Not running production, I just need to cut aluminum sometimes. Air is #1 but I thought misting Rapid-tap or A1 or WD-40 or even rubbing alcohol can reduce chip welding. I researched water soluable cutting fluids but I dont do enough aluminum to justify buying the stuff

>>3012605
Machinists are going the way of TV repairmen, farriers, and film developers. There are still a few around but they are a vanishing breed.

Either you learn CAD, wear a white collar, never touch a machine, and get paid decent money or you are a trained monkey get paid peanuts to setup the machines. The days when you could wear a blue collar and make decent money are over. While those jobs still exist, they are increasingly rare.

>>3012979
Been hearing this since the 80s man

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>>3013099

>>3013019
And its fucking true. Way less of them now then there used to be. Every factory used to have its own tool room. Every tool room had an American made lathe and someone to operate it. Then they started to get their lathes from Asia to save some money. Next thing you know they are getting a bunch of their tooling from their too. Finally, it was just cheaper to buy everything direct from China then it was to have someone onsite who could make/repair what they needed. Job gone.

>>3013036
The people I knew machining metal all still do it professionally. Maybe I'm God's special machinist friend, but I never met a jobless machinist.

>>3013099
fwiw the downturn the other anon is talking about happened long enough ago that most of the machinists from that era are long-retired anyway. Ones you known now would be part of the relative few that found work after that.

Things also seem to be on an upward turn for machinists now though, seems like everywhere I go I run into companies that are opening up in-house machining departments because they're sick of outside suppliers bottlenecking production or because they've got big new defense contracts that stop them from having stuff made overseas or by shops that aren't set up for ITAR etc.

>>3013196
metals rennaisance
the learning curve is affordably at home in a lot of ways now that VR training is getting bigger too
Plus home hobby has never been cheaper.
Market downturn makes domestic scrap cheaper
leatherworking has seen a boom like this too

>>3013196
And sick of working with China. China goddamn fucking sucks and always tries to fuck you. They'll sell you a $40k dollar fucking wonderlathe that can do some crazy numbers and you get out of spec bullshit shipped to you if you're lucky. Glorified scrap if not.

>>3013226
VR training is an interesting prospect but I'm not sure how effective it'd be. There's a lot of feel stuff that I think would be a struggle (even just getting used to the right amount of pressure with calipers or mics) and I also think learning machining is just such an overall infodump that it's really hard to learn it at your own pace and without somebody else both holding you accountable and giving you real feedback. Incidentally that's also why going to school for it is such a force multiplier compared to on the job training/experience and thankfully a lot of employers are realizing that lately and hiring straight out of schools for decent jobs, which absolutely wasn't the case even 5 years ago. (I've actually watched it happen in real time over the last year myself.)

>>3013227
Yeah, that's a big part too. People are realizing the cost and lead times aren't worth it if the parts aren't good enough. I'm personally switching into machining from a job where I was on the other side, having parts made by outside machine shops, and we dealt with the same stuff and came to the same conclusion ourselves.

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>>3013227
>40k dollar fucking wonderlathe
vs a $125k haas or $160k puma
no shit its gonna be a project
ass or grass nobody rides for free
t. wants a $45k chinkshit robodrill ripoff