When you learn how classic videogames were really made, all the romance of /vr/ goes out the window. Most of it was just lazy cut and paste and reskins. Very few actually built them from scratch. Almost all of them were corporate minded not art minded.
>>12897127back then corporate minded didnt really exist. the ceo said "make me money" and you could make anything as long as it made money. he would stay out of the way and let you. now the whole process is driven by shareholders and analytics and the devs have no creative freedom.
I would feel disillusioned too if my understanding of the history of the medium was as deep as a cum stain.
For me it's all the new ai stuff entering the space. Every day there's a discussion about some new hack created last Thursday instead of a real retro game.
>>12897127>Has anyone else gotten disillusioned by /vr/?Maybe. But I, for one, get a kick out of seeing seething children perpetually cope about their stupidity. It's like reality TV but the players are more retarded.
>>12897138>back then corporate minded didnt really existYou're an idiot
True, we should all just give up retrogaming and buy new systems and games instead.
>>12897127I realized on my own about game engines when that wasn't even a word. Super C being pretty much extra levels for Contra was an easy deduction, and that was before I played my first Megaman. I always focused myself on having fun, so that didn't bother me at all. What I find interesting is about how developers worked around console limitations.
>>12897171read a book nigger
>>12897127>all the romance of /vr/ goes out the windowWelcome to reality. Thank god. One less delusional retard on this board.
>>12897127>Almost all of them were corporate minded not art minded.Videogames were seen as part of the toy industry until around the mid-late 90's. They were seen by corporate minded people as such and still are today.
>>12897192Not him, but what book specifically states corporate minded people didn't exist until...whatever exact year is in your head?
>>12897197The CEOs of Taito and Nintendo didnt give a shit about games and let their underlings do whatever they wanted, with the only condition put on them that it had to make money. Today, the CEOs (or board of directors) care way too much and micromanage everything and dont let the devs carry out their vision
>>12897210>He thinks Hiroshi Yamauchi let his underlings do whatever they wantedlol. lmao.
>>12897151It’s like one guy spamming this board because he thinks it’s funny to rile people up and the mods aren’t doing anything about it
>>12897241Jannies aren't mentally unhinged middle age schizos and actually like the AI stuff. Claude is a blessing. Sure, hiccups exist, but overall so many great projects have been made.
>>12897138Same with music and movies. Now in gaming it all sucks hard, companies trying to please everybody and be the next Fark Souls/Call of Duty/fortnite
>>12897127>Very few actually built them from scratch. Almost all of them were corporate minded not art minded.Maybe on consoles. The situation is very different for DOS and home computers.
>>12897260You mean like how Adrian Carmack and Kevin Cloud used stock photo collections from shit like CD called Media Clips by Aras Entertainment and many other sources for Doom's textures?
>>12897285So? Do you really ever play Doom and go "ew, I've seen that texture before"? Meanwhile they sculpted the monsters by hand.And the janky way they created the weapons from cheap Chinese toys is peak soul
>>12897285>work smarter, not harderanyway, offloading certain mundane tasks like texture or sfx sourcing gave them time to focus on the graphical elements they wanted to focus on, like making clay models of enemies
>>12897127I'm trans, by the way. Not sure if that matters.
>>12897285They didn't just "use stock photos", they worked on them too, to fit their art direction and palette.Although some games did use stock photos as-is with no work or seemingly any thought process behind it, such as Mario 64, and it looks like shit because of it.>>12897189There isn't such a thing as an "NES Mega Man engine". Almost every game works completely differently under the hood. Some key routines like movement or collision were sometimes re-used but that's about it, even then adapted to each game and often worked on. You'd know this if you weren't just talking out your ass based on assumptions. Makes me wonder if the wikipedia page on Darkwing Duck still claims "it's based on the Mega Man 5 engine", what a laugh that was.
>>12897127>Oh noes my highly technical product is in fact made by math obsessed japanese nerds and not by Picasso Who would have thought about it?
>>12897236That Anon is retarded but he is correct insofar as Yamauchi was smart enough to know that he knew nothing about games and let his employees worry about making the games fun.
>>12897249>Jannies aren't mentally unhingedSure you're not>so many great projects have been made.Sure. That's exactly the sort of thing a totally not unhinged grownup would say
It's the height of ignorance to say "retro games were this and this one thing only"In reality, there were indeed publishers and developers that were very cynical and "corporate minded" and mostly just released reskin after reskin and soulless license slop because it made them money. Can you say Ocean?But there was also room for quirky, artistic solo bedroom developer heroes and innovation. But so there is today...The biggest difference is that none of the games had the enormous billion gorillion budgets we have today so the footing was more equal between the big publishers and the "indies". This can create the illusion there was more soul back then, but the reality was the soulless stuff was just cheaper so it didn't steal the show like it does today.
>>12897127>Most of it was just lazy cut and paste and reskins.Do you think the rest of the world is any different?
>>12897151You control the threads you read and create.
>>12897310Next time you wanna bump a thread say that you're a faggot and let it be. Don't embarrass yourself trying to convince us that you know more than the developers themselves, holy shit.
>>12897497But I just made a thread and all the replies are off topic and the thread is close to dead on page 8 or 9. Furthermore the holocaust never happened.
>>12897127i can't say i really understand where you're coming from. everything would have to have been created from scratch at some point. some amount of creativity and effort would have to have been involved in any halfway decent game. the fellow in your pic doesn't seem to be lazily cutting and pasting anything. what exactly did you discover about the creative process that you found so disappointing?
>>12897303>Do you really ever play Doom and go "ew, I've seen that texture before"?I did for Doom 2, since it reutilized a lot of assets. Granted, not the "ew" part.
>>12897171No, he's right. Obviously there were corporations and people wanted to make a profit, but there were smaller teams and more free creative decision making allowed within the teams. Now the big companies are way less willing to take risks on creative decisions. Listen to what Harada has said about things like this, he knows from experience (pic related).I disagree with OP. Reading stories and interviews about the making of old games has made me respect them more rather than less.
>>12897127I admit feeling disappointed when I learnt enough assembler to find out that Starflight 2 was a half-assed reskin of Starflight 1's code.Although I'll admit that they were in such uncharted territory, so to speak, that pushing SF2 out the door that quickly was the smartest way to keep getting paid before the technology changed.
>be a kid>think videogames are made of magic and ideas>want to make videogames>grow up>realize games are made of pure text code and stuff>become disillusioned>grow up more>realize coding is actually magic>become a programmer
>>12897251>and be the next Fark Souls/Call of Duty/fortniteYeah bro, nobody copied successful games back then
>>12897127Check out the story of the first The Sims game.If it weren't for persistence and optimism, this game would never have been released. Will Wright never gave up.Back then, developers were truly passionate about creating video games.You can check Richard Garriott as well
>>12897830Silent Hill is one of these games. It was a side project made by a very small team that Konami pretty much didn't care.
>>12897895And Peter Molineux before he turned to the dark side.
>>12897901Yep, and there are many other examples in the retro sphere.OP claiming it was just copy pasted reskins and "corporate minded not art minded," as is common today, is indeed just babbling by a retard.
>>12897189>ice man>blizzard man>freeze man>frost man>cold man
>>12897535You can make as many threads as you want.
>>12897127Behind-the-scenes and under-the-hood stuff doesn't bother me when it comes to video games, but it's absolutely fatal to my ability to appreciate movies.
>>12898115>Behind-the-scenes and under-the-hood stuff doesn't bother me when it comes to video games, but it's absolutely fatal to my ability to appreciate movies.and this is why a lot of information (including surviving tools and development systems) is being lost to time. game historians are 99.0% fucking idiots only interesting in the game and nothing else.in the future you'll have a situation like this:>kid: grandpa, how did people make games for these ancient consoles and computers in the 1980s?>grandpa: well, you see what happened was game historians and journalists were too busy asking about what color bingbingwahoo should be and a difficult waterworld state and never asked any questions about how things were made. must of got lots of updoots on reddit. remember that site? *sigh*>kid: i don't want to live on this planet anymore>grandpa: neither do i. where did i put my shotgun..
>>12898284You must be watching the wrong youtubes
Huh? Isn't it the other way around?Coming from modern gaming and their homogenized engines and templates, going back to retro feels fresh.I remember some interview where some company that was assigned a port job were given the original code of the original game and they were delighted looking at it because it had an artisanal look to it.Things like reusing sprites is often overblown by people, you can have a great game with little variations of enemies. What matters is the overall design and care put into a game, not sheer numbers or amount of things, if it was like that we wouldn't be playing retro and would only care about maximist modern games
>>12897127i wish youd disillusion yourself off to another site
>>12898846>Huh? Isn't it the other way around?>I remember some interviewHuh? Is this some tiktok challenge where you try to be even more retarded than OP?
>>12899696The interview part was just an anecdote, the substantial part of the post is that modern videogames are actually homogenized and more "copy-paste" than they ever were
>>12897127>lazy cut and paste reskinsIt's not so much "lazy" (although sometimes it is), it's a way to cut costs and reduce development time. Do you know how much longer and more expensive those games would've been if they didn't reuse any assets or cut and paste portions of maps or dungeons or enemies? Have you ever tried developing a game yourself? Without using easy engines purpose-designed for it like RPGMaker, it's a fucking slog.>very few actually built them from scratchThe original games for most games of the 80's were completely built from scratch. >almost all of them were corporate minded not art mindedYou're a complete moron if you think people were doing it "for the philosophical depth of art". People were making them for money, dumb-dumb, other-wise they'd all be free. They were passionate/interested about the medium, but you're delusional, gullible, or stupid, or all three if you think people do things strictly "for the art" of it. You want to see what people do "for art"? Go down to your local stage theater and see one of the independent performances.But does any of this make the end product less fun? No. The execution is what matters.
>>12897138>back then corporate minded didnt really exist.This mind set has existed since Atari. Some times some games were actually developed, but still in many cases copy/paste sell a product existed. ET is a great example. Speilberg was like "just copy pac-man" but someone with an idea stepped up and tried something. The mind set existed, but someone wanted to be artistic.
>>12897171it does make some sense that a nascent industry cannot have the gazing eye/experience to self-surveil from its outset, even if its corpos wanted. grifting halfassery is easy to encourage if you get your hands on the right slobs, but standing in the way of talented people with a vision? not so obvious back then i'd say, beyond basic stuff like deadlines and such.
>>12898756>>You must be watching the wrong youtubesunless a different version of youtube exists per country i have no idea what you are talking about. they're all such useless fools that have no idea how anything works until they mash obese palms onto an ipad to bring up a wikipedia page and that's it. don't forget to subscribe to my patreon where i will give you exclusive access to my wikipedia page reading! lmao>youtubersmy sides
>>12897830>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZazEM8cgt0It happens everywhere.>>12897127I love seeing how they went far off in gauche directions, and still made it work, way outside of what is expected today of "gameplay, narrative or aesthetic".
>>12899712There was no substantial part of the post. It was just a silly little story tapped by a silly little child.
>>12897127There are some 2600 games I thought were basically magic and then you learn they were using basic tricks or how on 8 bit games parallax never overlaps and you never unnotice it but when you learn about stuff like how the physics and stuff like compression works I came away way more impressed so its 50/50. The stuff I thought that was super hard turned out to be fairly easy but it was the general game engine I found has way more subroutines and clever timing that I would have expected. I used to think stuff like jumping physics were just fixed values that ran through a sort of a script but no there is gravity and friction to calculate but using 16 bit values for smoother movement. Overall I appreciate games a lot more with that knowledge.>>128972101986 - copy a bunch of graphic tiles for a megaman level2026 - copy and bunch of buildings for a GTA 6 street>>12897285Daytona and Mario 64 did that too>>12897895Like Solaris on 2600, impossible and an old crap system, do it anywayhow can such a crappy looking game be so impressivehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_iWYyssJ0g
>>12897127No because I form my own opinion about things and I couldn't give a fuck less what some retarded internet faggot thinks about games I enjoy.
>>12900395Famicom / NES - 30+ New first party franchisesSwitch 1 - Less than 5 new first party franchises>>12899847creativity also exists to some extent today. the difference is prevalence
>>12897127>wozmon not found
>>12900042>unless a different version of youtube exists per countryThere literally is. Imagine being such a useless fool while crying about useless fools. Possibly the best self own I've seen by a child on /vr/ today.
>>12900132So you think today's homogenized video game development doesn't use copy-paste?
>>12901339>s-s-so you [contrived cope]Why do children humiliate they/themsleves like this?
>>12902139nice concession
>>12897127Nah. It was always about cutting corners and trying to release products as fast as possible. I struggled for years worrying about building games the "right" way like all the people in the past did that I looked up to. But over time I realized they were all just products of their time and if they had access to the stuff we have today they would have used it in a heartbeat to ship faster no matter the outcome and I'm not even talking about AI.
the difference is that games back then were made by guys with frosted tips and double chins who liked boobs, now they're made by transvestites with purple hair and padded bras
I don't understand why you guys keep trying to debate "they were passionate!" "They were corporate!" as if there was ONE answer that covered every game's creation. Since we're talking retro, try and watch season 1 interviews from game center CX (and some of season 2) and you'll see crazy stories of how some games happened back in the days, they're all different
>>12900721>NOO! YOU'RE WATCHING THE WRONG YOUTUBE!>what youtube is that?>NOOOO! IT'S DIFFERENT PER COUNTRY!i can speak 4 languages and know how to read subtitles. you?>NOOOOOO!!! IT'S A DIFFERENT YOUTUBE!!!1 IT'S BETTER THERE!Imagine being such a loser and pathetic fraud that you try to convince people that use the internet of how the quality of game journalism varies wildly on youtube depending on the country you're in. Incredibly wild and 100% embarrassing. post at minimum 5 foreigner non-english speaking game youtubers that did interviews with developers/programmers/musicians/artists and asked about SDKs, programming, technology and NOTHING about games. Doesn't exist, retard. All of these youtubers are utterly pathetic failures that think reading wikipedia is journalism.
>>12902341>i can lose my shit in 4 languages, you?Epic
