The game that started the next-generation.
Dat nigga Kojima was cookin back then
https://youtu.be/OBXpTMGyYXg
>>12887205Damn!!!!
But they were in the first Metal Gear Solid
>>12887203next generation of movie games
Kojima invented the 6th gen
>>12887203>next-generationNEXT GENERATION?!>>12887204>immortal classicIMMORTAL CLASSIC?!>>12887220>metal gearMETAL GEAR?!
>>12887203the fact that this game was 60fps was mindblowing. i thought the future was here. little did i know that they would go backwards. i literally gagged when i first played mgs3.
>>12887249WTF?
0 cultural impact
>>12887263if this were true kojima wouldn't get sucked off at every game awards. mgs2 is the kojima meme, that's where it comes from. before that he was just a guy that made a cool videogame.
>>12887304mario, minecraft, fortnite. kids love em
>>12887294>game awardsFaggot alert!
>>12887203I didn't like MGS1 and thought it was kinda shit.MGS2 made me a fan.That said, I still can't say that I enjoyed playing these games until Peace Walker made it behind-the-back cameraAnd then MGSV is just fucking glorious
>>12887325like it or not that's culture now. most streamed annual event outside of sports.
>>12887203>>12887204Truth.>>12887249Same.
>>12887240Next. Generation.https://youtu.be/pqLwQqj4Yss
>>12887203idk, i'm still pissed that raiden is the protagonist for 3/4 of the gameI usually skip his part on replays and I enjoy MGS1 a lot more
>>12887294>mgs2 is the kojima meme, that's where it comes from. before that he was just a guy that made a cool videogame.MGS1 was huge. They both sold 7 million copies, but MGS1 did it without name recognition on a less popular console.
>>12887515>less popularDo you enjoy smoking crack, or does acting retarded come naturally?
>>12887203That's an interesting way of spelling "Half-Life 2". We live in a pre and post Half-Life 2 world, anon.
>>12887532PlayStation Units sold 100 millionPlayStation 2 Units sold 160 million
>>12887249The psx has more 60fps games than the ps2. Also MGS2 runs in 60fps in select rooms. This famerate obsession is getting silly.
>>12887539Normal functioning human beings use "less popular" to signify comparison to competition, not to immediate successors, and especially not towards consoles which when they released, were extremely popular and at the time, best-selling.If you wanted to say that a game sold seven million copies on a console that ultimately sold fewer units than its successor, you'd say exactly that. You wouldn't call the console "less popular" and expect people to somehow understand that you're comparing it to a console that didn't even exist yet.You can cashapp me 350 dollars for English lessons, usually I'm not so nice to ESLs.
>>12887409And Fortnite’s the most played game, doesn’t mean I have to give a fuck about it
>>12887553This anon understood >>12887539Maybe you're just retarded?
>>12887230The evolution of games into the 21st century.
>>12887515I'm not trying to denigrate mgs1, it's the classic but the houdini kojima pulled with 2 is what really gave him the auteur rep. if it were just mgs1 he'd be another hollowed upstanding japanese creator.
>>12887559you're either goalpost moving or didn't read the comment chain.
>>12887203Gran Turismo 3 did it first
>>12887203>gameMost of the runtime is genuinely cutscenes and codec calls. It's more accurate to call it a movie.
>>12887230Jrpgs are the movie gamesMGS are politics educational action games
>>12887559Fortnite is a good game
Olga~
>>12887535Yeah, modern games have more in common with this shit than MGS2. It even had yellow paint!
>>12887409>its popular so it has cultural impactjustin bieber did nothing for music
That actually would be Sonic Adventure, which was released years before.
>>12888693mgs2 did something for games.
>>12888727like?
>>12888734leveraging a franchise sequel for something other than just repetition of a popular idea.
>>12888748so your example is that kojima invented sequels?ok so he contributed nothing to gaming and you're just another kojima feet sniffer
>>12888761at the absolute peak of sales expectation and consumer demand he chose to utilize a franchise sequel in a creative fashion that wasn't pandering or iteration. every sequel that defies conformity in a similar way is compared to mgs2.
>>12888748It is a repetition of a popular idea though. That's like the entire point of the story. And the gameplay is literally the same but more
I find the idea that people were mad about Raiden, and that they wanted to play Snake instead, extremely strange because Snake is hardly an amazing character in MGS1. He's supposed to be a genius yet he never does anything smart in the entire story. His name is really stupid too.
>>12890437clever gotcha there but in the terms I was discussing, no. repetition in that sense would not be keeping the most popular character in the world at arm's length as a meta plot device.
>>12887203Gay shit
>>12890456I cannot believe Resident Evil 2 defied conformity by keeping us from the most popular character in the world Jill Valentine. That intolerable auteur Kamiya, who does he think he is?
>>12890471why did people react completely differently to mgs2?
>>12890443it's not an idea, it's reality.
>>12887203MGS did the exact same game but with worse graphics.
>>12890625Because MGS2 goes out of its way to hammer it into your skull that Raiden is a gay faggot loser and that Snake is cooler. That isn't a good thing though
>>12890696mgs2 had specific intent in its changes, the fact that raiden was different than snake had meaning. capcom had no message with leon and claire, they were just a different set of heroic characters slotted into the formula.
Kojima is the Innaritu of video game directors.
>>12890714MGS2 is sort of the Digger of gaming except it sold well.
>>12890709Nobody understood what MGS2's message was which you can tell by the fact that everyone you ask has a different answer. "Having a message" isn't a virtuous end in and of itself. What effect did it accomplish with its changes? And to imply that Capcom had no specific intent with Leon and Claire in RE2 is ridiculous, they represent an important part of Resident Evil's aesthetic development from the first game. RE2 was a game made with a lot of thought, even if you think it wasn't as much thought as MGS2.
Of course, I'm being slightly disingenuous with the comparison between MGS2 switching to Raiden and RE2 switching to Leon and Claire. It's superficially the same thing, but the implementations of each are very different. My point is that MGS2's subversion of MGS1 are only seen that way because MGS2 itself insists upon that subversion -- a new protagonist for a sequel is standard, but MGS2 famously hid Raiden from players, and since Raiden is a protagonist who is inherently much less desirable than Snake to a western audience, and since MGS2 so often insists on presenting Raiden as a chump, this comes off as less a fun surprise and more like the rug being pulled out from beneath your feet. Personally, though, I feel that the latter, more mean-spirited interpretation is being unfair to the game, and that people who promote that conception of MGS2 are undermining the game's own goals. Raiden has admirable qualities in his own right, and I like Raiden. I don't believe Kojima and his team sought to spite players by dangling Snake out of reach, especially since I find Snake to be overrated. That is to say, I don't believe Kojima's motives for the introduction of Raiden were that dissimilar from Capcom/Mikami's motives for the introduction of Leon and Claire, as both were seeking to give the player more of what they loved ("a repetition of a popular idea"), but in a new way. It's just that some of MGS2's other narrative ambitions can obscure that sometimes, in a way that allows certain people to project their own mean-spirited sentiments into a work to which they are alien
>>12890736MGS2 was Kojima’s blank check. While it did sell well, it was a common sight back then to see plenty of used copies available at EB Games. Snake Eater was much more mainstream friendly as a result.
>>12890740I'd argue that Snake Eater is more of a shakeup than MGS2 was, because despite it having a more conventional story, it takes a much larger departure from MGS1's gameplay than MGS2 did by either removing or massively restricting the use of the radar. Look at how much people hate MGS2's Snake Tales (which are excellent) because they force you to go without the radar. So, in that way, Snake Eater was very bold. Of course, though, nobody appreciates that now, because Kojima and company acquiesced to faggot western gaming trends with Subsistence and its ZOG camera, removing the significance of the Soliton Radar's absence. So you're right that Subsistence is much more mainstream friendly, in a bad way, which is why it's every retard's favorite Metal Gear game besides Phantom Pain
>>12890736I disagree. Mgs2 eschewing straightforward crowd pleasing sequel conventions had unique artistic intent that left a cultural impact. It was not just a forgivable scrappy doo fauxpas as you imply.
>>12890747I'm open to that possibility, but can you define MGS2's artistic intent? What did you get out of it? What did the game leave you with? I'm asking about you specifically here, and not the vague idea of cultural impact that you were arguing about with the other guy since that was just a guy shitposting with little substance
>>12890746There’s probably several million people who played the MGS games on easy primarily to enjoy the stories and never really bothered with the more advanced gameplay.
Raiden should have fucked her cute spunky butt, she was practically begging for it
>>12890769He would have, but Raiden is a good boyfriend and is ever faithful to his Jewish mind control girlfriend Rose
>>12890751 (Me)As for myself, what I got out of MGS2 was the idea that genuine experiences can arise from fabricated scenarios and that people are not wholly defined by the information by which they operate>I know you didn't have much in terms of choices this time. But everything you felt, thought about during this mission is yours. And what you decide to do with them is your choice...This is a pretty straightforward reading of the game, but I've only played it without skipping cutscenes twice and I don't claim to be an expert
>>12887443>I usually skip his part on replays and I enjoy MGS1 a lot moreYou should try twin snakes on hard or extreme if you haven't already
>>12890773>As for myself, what I got out of MGS2 was the idea that genuine experiences can arise from fabricated scenarios and that people are not wholly defined by the information by which they operatebut you don't believe that the way kojima utilized the meta structure of the series and the expectations of players is unique or meaningful to that message? all that was just made up bullshit?
>>12890785Yeah, the artificiality of the scenario being made more apparent to the player is obviously intentional and supports the game's themes. MGS2 isn't a critique or commentary on the medium of gaming, as is often said, but the inherent artificiality of video games is played with to support the themes of constructed identities and information control. So, no, it's not made up bullshit. It was obviously thought about carefully. However, I do think players disliking Raiden basically was a "forgivable Scrappy Doo fauxpax", as you put it, and not deliberate. ("MGS2 was made bad and weird on purpose to punish the gamers!!") In my view, MGS2 has some genuine deficiencies in how it relates its themes to Raiden as the protagonist.
>>12890765You're probably right, but that's unfortunate since Metal Gear's gameplay is way cooler than its non-gameplay story, especially in Snake Eater where the story is really just whatever. I don't hate the story, but it's like, I can't imagine playing the game just for that
>>12890809the point of me bringing up scrappydoo is that raiden wasn't simply something konami focus testers thought would appeal to the ladies. he wasn't supposed to be hated by the player in the grotesque gay way that he was but he was intended to be mildly dismaying for a time. the hyper cool character is denied and you have to play as the conflicted, green vr kid.
>>12890865I think "mildly dismaying" is basically right, but if playing as Raiden never rises above being mildly dismaying, then it's going to lower into outright hostility towards him. MGS2 never makes a significant effort to endear the player to Raiden, which is a real problem with the game. Does Raiden ever do anything cool in MGS2? Or, a better question, is anything he ever does acknowledged as cool? Raiden takes out up to 20 Metal Gears by himself and the game still treats it as a failure. Raiden never receives any catharsis, except for Snake patting him on the back and basically just consoling him in the ending. Compare that to Fortune, who has experienced an even more humiliating fabrication of her life and identity than Raiden, yet she's able to receive dramatic vindication in her death scene. In my understanding of the game, Raiden receiving any similar kind of catharsis or vindication wouldn't contradict the story's "message".
>>12887203Close but no cigar
>>12890885the moment of catharsis is him tossing the dog tags I suppose. In truth having doublechecked the cutscene I wish it had occurred completely without any prodding from snake but that is raiden overcoming the main evil of the game.
>>12887230/thread
>>12890985In a game and series this unapologetically over-the-top, isn't that a weirdly subdued way for the protagonist to overcome the main evil of the game? Though, I admit that I don't really know what to make of the dogtags thing or what it's supposed to represent (besides Raiden casting off an imposed identity). If the dogtags represent my influence as the player, then what am I supposed to read from the protagonist discarding my influence? It's often read as a kind of "go outside you otaku" thing, but I doubt that's it.
>>12887203I’m not a Kojima hater, but gaming journalists retroactively associated MGS2 with post-9/11 society even though the script was completed well before. Kojima was later made out to be some forward looking genius.
>>12887927Dude, that's a racing game!
>>12890736What are Raiden's admireable qualities, at least in MGS2?
>>12892576Journos at it again...
>>12894208He's brave and skilled! Could you survive MGS2? Probably not! And he takes his own actions seriously. If you listen to the optional codec where you call Rose after killing someone in-game, you'll see that Raiden doesn't treat his situation like a game, he's considering the weight of what he's doing. The Patriots lied to Raiden about some things, like the deaths of hostages and the catastrophic consequence of the Big Shell exploding, and the only reason they'd have to do that is if the thought of saving people and preventing harm would further motivate Raiden to accomplish his goals, so he's not selfish. The main reason he fights Solidus is to save Olga's child. A lot of this is standard video game protagonist stuff, but I've played games with much more hateable heroes than Raiden. I always felt like he had his heart in the right place, even if he was a little retarded. In many ways, I prefer Raiden to Snake, whose cynical tough guy routine never appealed to me
>>12890443I felt the same. I didn't even like Snake that much in MGS1, I found him to be quite whiny for most of the game. I didn't hate him, but I sure wasnt going to cry if there was a new protagonist. Raiden was nice. And Snake got over the patricide sob story depression and was cool in mgs2.
Raiden's a lot more personable than Snake. You ask Raiden his favorite movie, he's probably gonna say "King-Kong", maybe elaborate a little. If you ask that to Snake, he's gonna say some retarded shit>There are no movies on the BATTLEFIELD... It's not like Hollywood, with heroes and villains... It's just you, and death...!If you ask Raiden his favorite color, maybe he'll say blue. Snake is gonna say>On the BATTLEFIELD, the only colors are the red of the blood pouring into the brown of the mud...
12887203>gamelmaoleave
>>12890769What exactly did the Otacon incest subplot add to this game's story?
>>12890443well it was 2000, so kids wanted to play as the dude from escape from NY, not get forced into playing as some random twink with a whiny voiceraiden gets remembered much more fondly in retrospect due to the fact that later games made him into arguably the biggest badass in the series. he definitely was not like that yet in MGS2, so i can definitely see why some kids were pissed
>>12890443snake is constantly questioning the colonel about how obviously sus the mission is as soon as things start going sideways, and only through a combo of the real threat the terrorists represent + being friends with the colonel does he not just walk out of the base and go awol like he ends up doing at the end of the game anyway.meanwhile raiden is blatantly being led around by the nose way more and in the english version he has a dorky voice instead of the masculine japanese one>>12890916devil may cry is a game that genuinely couldn't exist on 5th gen hardware for a bunch of reasons but at it's core it's a game with design drawing from arcade games and resident evilmgs2 meanwhile is full of shit like guards having per-room AI routines to sweep corners looking for you and ice cubes that melt in real time
>>12899001>snake is constantly questioning the colonel about how obviously sus the mission is as soon as things start going sideways, and only through a combo of the real threat the terrorists represent + being friends with the colonel does he not just walk out of the base and go awol like he ends up doing at the end of the game anyway.>meanwhile raiden is blatantly being led around by the nose way more and in the english version he has a dorky voice instead of the masculine japanese oneRaiden questions stuff too, but there's a limit to how much he'll push his superiors. He's a rookie, not a veteran reluctantly coerced into the mission like Snake. And Snake might question things, but he hardly makes anything useful out of his suspicions. 160 IQ Snake not realizing the significance of the DARPA Chief being Decoy Octopus and bumbling into activating Metal Gear anyway is a much worse fumble than anything Raiden does
>>12898194It's more of a game than Half-Life
>>12899001>ice cubes that melt in real timeWhat a game-changer.
>>12899001>AI routines to sweep corners looking for youpacman already did that and better
>>12888439stinky greasy autism pits
>>12903174>Autism pitsEh?
I have a question that’s probably going to piss off A LOT of you in here, and if you wanna call me a faggot then I won’t even argue desu. First off, I’m getting into the series and just finished MGS1. It was cool and i feel initiated and everything, but I couldn’t fucking stand the camera and how it plays into the stealth. It’s not even a gitgud kind of thing, I just want that over the shoulder pov for my stealth games, otherwise I almost don’t even see the point. I’m starting 2 now, and I can tell immediately that it’s more of the same shit I hate, although it looks better. I found out that the camera I prefer starts getting implemented in 3. My question is, is the top down view and fixed camera shit at least more tolerable in this game? Like is it really worth it to push through it for the story and gameplay? Because this isn’t just a mild inconvenience for me, I legit cant fucking stand it and sometimes it’s all I can think about while playing
>>12905791>Implemented in 3Mgs4 is the first to implement it
>>12905950He means MGS3 Subsistence, which introduced the modern 3D camera.
>>12905959That camera is not over the shoulder
>games go to shitwow what a cohencidence
>>12905968You’re just being pedantic. The Subsistence camera is clearly what he was referring to.
>there are people that think big boss is cooler than solid snake
>>12905791If you're playing the pc hd releases, mgshd fix adds back the mgs3 camera that supposedly was coded into mgs2hd but left unused.https://github.com/ShizCalev/MGSHDFixif you have a ps3 controller it also adds back the ps2/3 pressure controls
>>12905970I was referring to both, normal 3 and Subsistence, Subsistence camera is 3RD person and sets the player in the center>>12906008Yeah it's a shame
>>12905791C'mon. Can you really not appreciate how cool and cinematic the fixed-camera makes all of the gameplay look? Why do you need an over-the-shoulder POV for a stealth game? Your standard here is totally arbitrary. Metal Gear isn't Splinter Cell, it's Metal Gear. Get over this mental barrier and you'll be better for it. You should play 3 with the original fixed camera too because the free third-person camera completely breaks that game and makes it boring garbage. If you REALLY can't stand any of it, just go play MGS5 or any other game, but I think you'll find that you're being silly if you cast off this mentality
>>12906178OP, I think you might be retarded. Original MGS3 has the fixed camera that you’re complaining about, so what the fuck?
>>12902831>ARE YOU GOING TO EAT ME?>[takes power pellet]>...heeehlp~
