Who is at fault here the most?
>>21424099Bret. Because Bret is a proud American and this only happened because Bret didn't want to lose in front of "his people"
Bret for being a fucking mark.
>>21424099Nobody knows the actual culprit, but it was Jim Ross.
Vince.>Bret gets massive WCW offer>Vince hears about it and flies to Bret's home and offers him a 10 year deal for less money>Bret being loyal, decides to stay>Bret comes back and immediately elevates Steve Austin and has the best WM match ever>turns heel and is super over with Hart Foundation (NWO and DX were more cool heels, Hart Foundation were heels that you boo'd and hated)>Vince suddenly can't afford to pay him>Vince doesn't offer him a backloaded contract, or future WWF stock shares with the going public deal he's working on in a few years>tells Bret to leave and go to WCW>Bret could have said "fuck no, I'm not leaving, pay me", but he did the right thing and let Vince break the contract>Bret still champion at Survivor Series and said he would lose it to anyone else not named Shawn Michaels>Bret has creative control so he can do this>Vince lies and screws him overIf Bret or any other guy signed a contract with Vince then a year later said "I want more money or to work less days" Vince would say "Sorry pal, you signed the contract", but now Vince just gets to break contract stipulations?
>>21424099Bret. He should have just been willing to do the job.
>>21424099Bret screw Bret
>>21424099the kliq. it's always the kliq.>curtain call was a false flag>shawn and hunter working vince>hall and nash working eric>bret leaves to elevate DX>hogan is the third man to elevate NWOthis is the wrestling revolution still in power today.
>>21424627>russo was the useful idiot.
>>21424099Both Brettand HBKBret for being a fucking retard who didn't want to do the job his boss wanted him to do and HBK for being a stooge
>>21424643>useful
>>21424663HBK didn't know it was happening.
>>21424289So it's Vincetty's fault for putting creative control in Bret's contract. Stop simping for the chest shitter.
>>21424643>>21424670>bret moving to wcw was the first blow to the canadian caucus. what finished them was benoit being unpersoned.>cornette losing with Smoky Mountain Wrestling and joining the writing team of WWF broke his psyche as Russo gangstalked him for the next 30 years ending a potential for trad wrestling revival. then russo enters wcw to take down turner, then to TNA to take down JJ and Dixie Carterwhat did it all lead to? shawn and hunter controlling wwe. the continuation of the samoan dynasty, john cena and cody rhodes being the pax americana psyop that led to the multicultural wwe modern audience slop. then the saudi deals. then linda mcmahon in the trump admin. wrestling is politics. politics is wrestling. it's always the kliq.
>>21424685It really all stemmed from that night in 92'.
>>214241242pbp
>>21424692'92 was 9/11 for the kliq deep state. vince saw the threat to his power and found a heavy to spread kevin's cheeks. it didn't work and only emboldened the kliq, turning them into true believers.
>>21424709>the marine bar fight was another mcmahon backed attempt to take down the kliq
>>21424709Was Vinnie Vegas really that much of a threat?
>>21424728you tell me. the kliq is still in power and mcmahon wants to jam dicks even further into her ass on the internet.
Vince. There were a lot of alternatives to screwing Bret. It could have ended in a draw/DQ/countout/dusty finish. They could have done the switch the next show or the show before. They could have had Bret win, have someone challenge him after and have that person beat Bret and lose to Shawn.Bret's also a guy who holds grudges and that's part of his problem. Shawn could have said no, clued Bret in or just been less of a jerk.
>>21424678he had reasonable creative control. The mark wasn't being reasonable. No amount of cope will change the fact that Bret Hart has been depressed and miserable since he got thrown to the curb by his pimp Vince McMahon.
>>21424099Vince for turning WWF into an indy fed and putting the belt on a tiny mark that has never been over.
>>21424692Was that a hot summer night in 92?
>>21424673>HBK didn't know it was happening.He has admitted many times that he was in on it
>>21424735didn't read, cant wait until you die
>>21425670>he had reasonable creative control. The mark wasn't being reasonable.Nope. There was no "reasonable" in the wording. Bret had creative control for his final 30 days + Vince's word that he would leave however he wanted.
>>21424099The most underrated thing about Montreal was just how short Shawn's reign at the top was after this. Everybody talks about how Bret went to WCW for that very underwhelming run. But for Michaels he got his biggest rival out of the way and a couple months later he fucked his back, Austin took his spot, and DX moved on without him. Just like Bret he went from top of the company and gone really quick. 96-98 WWF is a very interesting rewatch with hindsight.
>>21426929>The most underrated thing about Montreal was just how short Shawn's reign at the top was after this.Austin winning at WM14 was written in stone. The plan was a Bret/Austin rematch (which would have been phenomenal) but we got what we got. Shawn was just Bob Backlund holding the belt so he could lose it to Diesel.>. But for Michaels he got his biggest rival out of the way and a couple months later he fucked his back, Austin took his spot, and DX moved on without him. Even before Survivor Series 97 Austin was the top guy. There was zero doubt in anyone's mind. It was just a matter of what PPV it was going to be.Shawn was in a weird spot. He would never be the #1 babyface with Austin around, and even though DX was a heel group, they had anti-hero cool factor and sold merch. Shawn and Austin would have benefited greatly by having Bret around (assuming Shawn didn't hurt his back, which I still think was a work).
>>21424099It was ultimately Vince's fault. Because of his weird psychosexual obsession with Shawn, he let Shawn get away with any and everything. That's the reason Bret didn't want to drop the title to him.
>>21427204I agree that Austin was going out of WM as the champ no matter if Shawn got hurt or not, and he would've been a main eventer. My main point is its underrated how both Bret and Shawn never really benefited from the screwjob cause of the injury. Also, you cant ignore Michaels and his politicking, and how Vince would actually listen to him. Not that Austin would've been doing dancing segments in the midcard months later or anything, but Shawn would for sure try to keep himself right at his level. And then who's to say if guys like Rock or Foley get the jump in the card they did if he was there trying to hold them down.>which I still think was a workI get why people would think that with all the bullshit he came up with to avoid dropping titles, but if it was a work i dont think he would've sat out the entire peak of the era without coming back as a wrestler.
>>21427901>I get why people would think that with all the bullshit he came up with to avoid dropping titles, but if it was a work i dont think he would've sat out the entire peak of the era without coming back as a wrestler.He hurt his back and needed time off, but it wasn't career ending (same way his knee wasn't career ending). He was ready to go in early 99, but he was still drugged out of his mind.
Shitman of course
>>21428065The "Bret won't lose in Canada" shit is made up.
>>21424099Shawn is always to blame for everything.
>>21427861This. Vince should have known damn well that Bret and Shawn didn't like each other. Why on earth did Vince think Bret would drop the belt in his hometown to a guy that never did the same for him?
>>21428126Vince was trying to force Bret out ever since Bret attacked his boy toy backstage. Bret always acts like he's innocent and was a company guy, but shoot fighting VInce's lover is not a company guy thing to do. Not only did Vince present Bret with offers that he knew would get rejected, Vince did everything possible to ruin his WCW debut, because he knew Bret was going to join the nWo, and the screw job made him the sympathetic face, and made Vince a mega heel. Bret's debut was DOA now. He had to act like an upstanding ethical wrestler which had to slowly fade away so he can join the nWo. They wasted a bunch of time, and lost the appeal of making the nWo more menacing. It just became a story, like Sting, where no one knew who sides Bret was on, and even Bret didn't, and it took way too long to finally happen.
>>21428190>Vince was trying to force Bret out ever since Bret attacked his boy toy backstage.Vince considered Bret a friend and expected him to respect the time-honored tradition. Sadly he was already turning into the bitter person you see today, possibly from drug use, which causes bitterness in some due to a type of brain damage.
>>21428190i think vince just never really valued bret or saw how good he was and how important he was to the wwf. he easily could have afforded bret's 10 year or whatever it was contract, he just didn't think bret was worth it, and i guess bret not getting on with vince's gay lover didn't help matters either, no doubt shawn was in his ear. >Vince did everything possible to ruin his WCW debut, because he knew Bret was going to join the nWo, and the screw job made him the sympathetic faceif anything that helped bret more. wcw was in dire need of genuine babyfaces over with the fans, but bischoff botched bret's debut massively.
>>21428254I would imagine he did. He just didn't want to drop it to Shawn because 1) Shawn wouldn't drop it back to Bret and 2) Shawn straight implied Bret was having an affair with Sunny, which his wife was none too happy about.
>>21428254>Vince considered Bret a friend and expected him to respect the time-honored traditionThat's called being a mark.
>>21426929The screwjob pretty much destroyed the idea of Shawn being the champion because of his deceit and the stink of his massive ego. He didn't need the strap, but I'm sure it hurt him knowing he was never going to be the guy who carried the company to greatness like Austin and Rock, and he was never going to have the people's sympathy like Bret did.>but he found Christ!All born-agains are just carnies.
>>21428263>i think vince just never really valued bret or saw how good he was and how important he was to the wwf. he easily could have afforded bret's 10 year or whatever it was contract, he just didn't think bret was worth itWe knew this as far back as 1992/1993, when Vince backpedaled on Bret and the New Generation by letting Hogan beat Bret and Yokozuna at WM9, despite Hogan's massively declining popularity after the steroid case and as times changed.
>>21428263You DOOOO understand the nWo was WCW's biggest draw and it was a LARP of a WWE invasion, right? Bret wasnt asked to come to WCW to be a baby face.
>>21424099it was a work and the only two people in on it were Vince and Bret, everyone else thought it as a shoot
>>21428450yeah in its early stages, but by the time bret was going to debut the nwo had a fuckton of members some who had never even wrestled in the wwf>Bret wasnt asked to come to WCW to be a baby face.well he debuted as a face and his heel turn was crap. the nwo was a great angle, but it's biggest problem was always that it killed most babyfaces stone dead, and at that point who did you have other than sting (who after starrcade's abortion of a finish was never as hot) who could match the nwo? wcw desperately needed any hot babyface they could get their hands on.
>>21428472they were close to a good finish Starrcade 97, instead of Hogan pinning Sting he puts him in the Scorpion Death Lock/Sharpshooter and Bischoff says "ring the fucking bell" and Bret steps in and reverses it. I wouldn't have done it since there's better options but still would have been a decent alternate
>>21428254>Vince considered Bret a friend and expected him to respect the time-honored tradition.So Vince breaking Bret's contract is a time-honored tradition?
>>21424119"His people" Have been persecuted and exiled for decades, show some sympathy.
>>21428263>i think vince just never really valued bret or saw how good he was and how important he was to the wwf.Vince is a legit retard that was in love with le big guys. I won't deny that big guys draw more, but go watch Bret entrances from the early 90s. The crowd pops like mad and even Vince is on commentary saying "this place is about to explode" before Bret's music hits. He was also selling a ton of merchandise.
Bret's problem is that he was too loyal. He could have taken the WCW offer in 1996 and came into that company as a red hot babyface to challenge the NWO. Instead he took less money and got fucked over by Vince.
Think about 1998. Attitude Era. Who were Austin's wrestling opponents?>Shawn Michaels - WM14 was probably Austin's best match of 1998 and that says it all>Dude Love - Mick was over with the fans by this point. He had some good matches with Steve, but their feud was lazy. Nobody was booing Mick. In fact him and Austin were winning the tag titles a few months later>Kane - not ready as top heel yet and a bad villain for Austin overall. This was more of the Undertaker/Kane storyline with Austin thrown inThings were so bad they were bringing in Dr. Death from Japan who was banged up, hand no mic skills, and wouldn't gel with Austin anyway. If only there was a great villain that Austin had feuded with in 96-97. Oh yeah, that was BRET. Vince deprived the fans of endless great matches.
>>21428574nah it shouldve been Macho Man
>>21428619>nah it shouldve been Macho ManVince already tried to put him out to pasture
>>21424099It was clearly Earl's fault, Bret didnt even tap and this dumbass rang the bell
>>21428667Vince screamed "ring the bell" at him.
>>21428653he couldve returned in 98
>>21428730>he couldve returned in 98Why would Vince put him in the ring in 98 if he deemed him done in 1994? And I looked it up, so I'm not sure if it's correct, but it says his contract expired in 2000. He wasn't brought back when WWF bought WCW either.
>>21428784I think he was in negotiations in at least 97 either right before or after his feud with DDP
>>21424099Modern "Wrestling"(gymnastics) for being dimeless.We still have to talk about The Montreal Incident
>>21424099It's always Bret Shart
>>21428793>the Brazzers belt looks better than both WWE World Title belts
>>21428902>>21428793I wonder if that belt is still hiding in some producers closet or something somewhere.
