My goal is mostly winter backcountry travel. Basically: snowshoeing sucks.I want to keep hiking and camping through the winter. I already have all the other gear and have done a fair amount of winter backpacking and even some mountaineering. I want a setup I can grow into as I move into higher angle terrain, but I want it to be okay for random rambles in rolling terrain and cross country flats. I don't see myself doing too much intense downhill and don't care if I can "charge hard" or "send it" or whatever. I get that a "one size fits all" / "quiver killer" setup will come with trade-offs. I've basically narrowed it down to three options:XCD - I suppose this will be better at the XC side, but comes with a limit on the terrain angle. I get the sense that most of the D in XCD is just "telemark on shitty skis", which from my understanding is harder than all the other options here if you aren't already a competent free-heel skier."Skishoes" - aka Hok Skis / OAC / Glidelites / Skinbased skis. This seems ideal in theory, especially in that they are intended as "less shitty snowshoes", but I think come with the same tradeoffs as XCD, just a lower barrier to entry and lower efficiency. Most reviews of these from experienced skiers say they suck, but I am not an experienced skier.Ultralight AT setup - thinking a low tech binding on an touring ski with climbing focused ski boots. Again, the focus here is not so much on downhill as it is on "getting around the backcountry in winter", but I think such a setup probably has no upper limit on the angle or terrain it can be used in, limited only by my experience level. Drawbacks are this is obviously more expensive (though I found a pair of high end mountaineering ski boots at the local used gear shop for like, nothing, and they're relatively comfy) and might be overkill. I live in the /out/ paradise of Northern Idaho. So the terrain is all over the place.I have literally zero interest in resort skiing.
>>2881652i've been trying to figure out my set up as well and dont know much yet- but I will say noridc skiis (bicambered) are def more efficient on the flats and gentler terrain. wide with metal edges but still kick and glide. They are much harder coming downhill. I never learned to tele but even with a metal edge its hard af. So, all I do know is I want/need to be able to lock my heel down if I am going to be doing any elevation...even if the flats look like a slog. does that make any sense?
>>2881665Yeah, there's a reason nobody free-heel skis downhill anymore, except for old guys and hipsters who are so good at alpine they get bored and take up telemark. It's a hard skill.
Are you using your snowshoes right? Heel lift makes a big difference. I used my snowshoes like a dumbass without unlatching the back, which was really tiring.Skis aren't worth it in woods if you don't have a clear path... I think. Honestly a lot of the skis vs snowshoes debate is sour grapes from the snowshoes side. Skis with skins are really efficient, and you can carry lightweight crampons when the terrain doesn't suit skiing. I don't know enough to help with specifics, I only snowshoe.>ultralight AT setupI'd probably do this if I were to get into snowshoeing.For backpacking consider a pulk too. Winter is heavy.
The Voile BC series of skis have fish scale on the bottom so you can run them over rolling terrain without needing to put skins they are sort of the perfect blend for traveling over snow. I use them with Tele Bindings but many people use them with AT bindings or even the Alfa Free XCD bindings.This guy on youtube covers a lot of current optionshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMze4vazlg0
>>2881652You live near my neck of the woods and want to do the same things as me. Asnes out of Norway makes good skis for this sort of thing, it is very popular there. You can get down some surprising terrain with an XCD setup and some forethought. Just moved down here so not sure what snow conditions will be though. Powder+skinny skis can be rough, but packed snow+wide skis will be rougher.
I don't ski, I snowboard. But I'd recommend a ski touring set up with skins (not the skiis with built in skins but the kind you can put on). You say you're not interested in going downhill but for hiking/camping/exploring in the mountains its an awesome form of travel when you can slide across snow instead of walking (which is why snowshoeing is gay).
AT if the conditions are right. You're up North so it should be cold enough. Down here in the PRC it gets warm and the snow will start balling up on your skins. I have to travel further (to higher altitude) when it warms up after a storm. I agree that snowshoes suck ass but sometimes they're the easy way (small distance, not too deep). An overpriced pair of lightweight MSRs or equivalent lightweight snowshoe can belay some of the suck but you're still going to be moving slow and there's no free ride back to the LZ like you get with an AT setup.
I took some XC ski lessons last year but it wasn't really what I wanted, the skis were very narrow and it seemed like they catered exclusively towards groomed runs on golf courses and such. What should I be on the lookout for on ebay/fb marketplace for more "logging roads and trails" type skiing? I dont really have any idea what I'm looking at with binding types, metal edges ect.I saw a guy last year who used skiis to get down a very long approach trail then stashed them before proceeding on foot, looked comfy
>>2882932Look for wider skis with metal edges but still bicambered for traditional kick and glide of x-country skis. They are typically called backcountry or touring skishttps://www.rei.com/c/metal-edge-touring-skis?ir=category%3Across-country-skis&r=category%3Across-country-skis%7Cmetal-edge-touring-skis
>>2882940thank you, as an example would like this be appropriate?https://www.ebay.com/itm/278274207068Anything that requires skins is a downhill ski that's making compromises to be usable on flat ground, right?
>>2882946Yes and yes. Alpine set ups that allow them to climb with skins are much less efficient on the flats as you are essentially just pushing the ski instead of the glide of traditional XC skis
>>2881652Hey man, I'm in the panhandle as well, and I love XC. Sounds like I'm doing kind of a similar rolling terrain thing with some downhill although just day jaunts. Not really into lift skiing either, although I'm kind of competently mediocre at alpine which I think helps. I would definitely say go for it, and start cheap; it will take some time, maybe a year or two, to confidently go where you really want to, so you might have some snowshoeing left in your future. But wiping out is pretty low stakes, slowing down is very tough at first but if it gets too hairy just sit down on your ass in the snow.Gear: I have all cheap old stuff, but this is after years of sifting. The cool thing is you can get a goodwill setup, learn to XC a bit, get something better and ditch the old pair or make them your rock skis. I did try renting one of the newer madshus xcd type skis but I wasn't impressed enough to buy; I would love to try some of the asnes stuff... Anyway. 3 pin Voile telemark bindings; they still make these, which is great. There is a detachable heel cable that stiffens you up a ton for downhilling which is killer. Leather telemark boots; I have Asolo Extremes, I love em. NNN-BC bindings feel too floppy and ticcy-taccy to me but I may have not tried good enough boots. My go to skis lately have been karhu ursas, and trak bushwackers. Both being pretty short for me vs. the "normal" nordic advice, the latter especially. There are a lot of old karhus floating around, which like these can have metal edges, good amount of sidecut, wider than a track, but still totally nordic so you can move on flats instead of dragging. The bushwackers are cool, super wide and short, easy to turn, but no metal edges sadly... I put my noob friends on them usually...
>>2882998cont.Technique: I can hardly telemark, actually. At least not the classic long and low thing. Nowhere I go on a regular basis is open enough to get the practice. I might honestly swallow my pride this winter and get a lift ticket just to nordic down the bunny hill all day. I'm pretty much doing stem turns and paralleling down logging roads. It takes longer for that to click than on alpine gear, absolutely, but it is doable, especially with the stiff bindings and boots I was talking about, and then you feel like a total boss. If you lead your outside ski a little bit and kind of half-tele-half-stem that is a good way to make it start happening. The metal edges let you side slip on ice and crust which makes lots more terrain passable.For propulsion it's the usual nordic stroke with some stepping and skating thrown in on slight downhills. I would never want to rock AT skis where I go, I love ricocheting off a downhill and keeping up the speed. I still might get AT some day, maybe if I lived somewhere more alpine, but I am really happy this way.If you are a reader picrel might be the best book to get. It's oldschool but he gives XC and AT equal time and it's openminded about technique. Cross-Country Downhill by Steve Barnett is a classic and very inspiring, although his take on technique is pretty unique and strange. The most technical book, which you should probably trust first, is Free-Heel Skiing by Paul Parker. I like the first edition with the silver cover the best, newer editions cut stuff and are a lot more focused on alpine telemark with heavy gear, than on nordic.Sorry for the brain dump, I am a big booster of backcountry nordic, it is the funnest shit ever. good luck anon.
