EV's are like $10k more than gas cars and you make up the difference in a few years with fuel savings, so why are people still buying gas cars?
>>29119201because it takes 15 seconds to fill up the tank and the resell value is higher, so the savings aren't that great
>>29119201It takes about 50k-80k miles to break even on the cost difference between a new ICE and EV car. If you buy a $1000 civic, it'll take well over a million miles for the EV owner to break even. Shitbox Chads win again.
>>29119201Some people are still heterosexual.
enormous depreciation costs mean that you either permanently keep a lease payment or lose more in trade/resale than what you save on gas. the fuel savings are predicated on using at home charging, which isn't feasible for a lot of people
>>29119225then go buy a used EV for 5 grand if they are so cheap according to you
>>29119208civics dont cost one thousand dollars anymore
>>29119241You might have to settle on a CRV. There's still plenty of $1k cars out there.
>>29119241
>>29119201Because it would take me like 5 to 7 years to break even. That's not taking into account that electricity is not free. My power up here in Washington it's cheaper than hell at around 10 cents a kilowatt but still.
>>29119275Probably needs $5k in repairsNot even exaggerating.You're better off getting something in the $4-6k range that's in actual good shape.
>>29119241Plenty of $1k or less cars out there
>>29119281I've rolled the dice on many $1k or less cars. Little things will often be broken, but if the powertrain is good, then you're cruising baby. Picrel.
>>29119225Depreciation is less of an issue now than it was. EVs used to have a $7500 depreciation hit baked into the MSRP. Prices were higher and drivetrain was worse. Tech and prices have both started to plateau so it will be less of an issue going forward. The biggest factor right now is simply the public's ignorance on battery degradation. Sadly educating the general populace these days is impossible.
>>29119290>battery degradation.Bruh, guys I know Autocross Model 3 performance and their batteries are seeing upwards of 7% battery health loss every year.Meanwhile my dad's 323,000 mile Camry gets the same MPG as it did at new@ 20K miles.
>>29119231I've seriously thought about a gv60 at 30k, but I like my quadrifoglio too much
>>29119204>because it takes 15 seconds to fill up the tankI don't think this is a real argument. It comes into play for long distance driving, but most people don't regularly take trips of that distance. By and large EV owners like not having to go to a gas station at all. This is something hydrogen shills like Toyota don't seem to understand (besides all of the other obvious problems with hydrogen). Recreating a more authentic gas station experience is not something anyone wants.The real answer is people don't want to pay the upfront premium. And some people live in apartments where they aren't going to get the residential rate on electricity. And an even larger portion of the population is not in the market for a new car of any kind and only drive beaters or soon-to-be beaters.
I drive EV but ICE is way cheaper if you want to go budget. You can buy a shitter Toyota for 10k and it will last for years just fine. The cheapest functional EVs are like 25k. You'd need to spend atleast 35k on EVs that actually drive well and have good range. I love my car but it costs me way more than most ICE cars would even considering the cheap fuel and service.
>>29119288>subaru >power plant goodThat’s a good joke
>>29119201Because the electrical grid would probably shit itself. Most people I know that have an EV they are also have a spare gas car or motorcycle, if they forgot to charge it the night before they take the gas powered vehicles instead.
>>29119366No they're not. If they were, you have insane luck to know so many guys who all have incredibly rare defective batteries. Degradation greater than 20% in 8 years is eligibility for replacement under warranty.
>>29119201I like my lightweight, manual 8 cylinder vroom vroom mobile. For pure driving enjoyment I feel like an older analog gas car can't be beat.Fuel however, is an issue. We're paying about 13 USD/Gallon here.For daily commuting and traffic (Or if you see a car as an appliance) I think an EV is superior, which is also why I daily one. But for fun drives nothing beats gas.
>>29119464Hey. Nice car man.
>>29119231ok
>>29119564>less than 100 miles of range used
>>29119366>Bruh, guys I know Autocross Model 3 performance and their batteries are seeing upwards of 7% battery health loss every year.No you don't, if you did, that'd be a bananas good deal because it means they're forced to replace the battery every four years forever.
>>29119430lol no. The electrical grid can handle hundreds of thousands of EVs being manufactured every year. That'd just mean planning a new local natural gas plant (which would be profitable because of those EV sales). The plant will be built in a fourth of the time the EV sales will actually start becoming an issue.You can also just enact city ordinances mandating that EV owners charge their cars at night, when electrical demand is low. These are enforceable without significant load on the government.
>>29119654>good enough for 99.9% of journeysok
>>29119679I know, but some are reporting range as low as 60. That barely gets me into town and back.
>>29119683No, nobody reports a range of 60 in a leaf. The battery will just be dead before it gets that bad.EV batteries lose about 1-2% battery health per year until they get into the low 80s/upper 70s, then they just die in a manner that isn't worth saving. They no longer produce enough voltage. Nissan batteries up until this past year are complete shit so they always lose 2%, not 1%.
>>29119688Look, if you live out innawoods even 100 miles isn’t enough. What if I need to go to the good hospital? Does having a Leaf outside of a city require you to have another car? If you had another car you would never want to drive the Leaf.
>>29119696If you had another car you wouldn't worry about the hospital trip at all and you'd usually drive the car that conveniently saves you shitloads of money. You'll just drive the other car if there's some emergency.
>>29119701But I guarantee Leafs suck ass to drive.That’s the problem I have with you EVfags, you turn cars into a financial spreadsheet. Then you claim the acceleration (of some) makes them fun but they’re really sterile, heavy (Leaf excluded), and boring.Live a little. The Leaf is for people who don’t like driving.
>>29119706>But I guarantee Leafs suck ass to drive.We've both never driven one, but I bet you're right.>That’s the problem I have with you EVfags, you turn cars into a financial spreadsheet. They are. They cost money.What's more, if you actually give a shit about cars, you don't own one car. One of them being an economical EV makes so much sense to the point where trying to be a contrarian about it is retarded. You never have to perform maintenance except on the brakes. It's never out of commission. It doesn't need anything other than a decent parking spot to charge. You can take your favorite car off the road for months while doing a job on it and still live your day job uninterrupted.You're making excuses and talking from ignorance (like the 60 miles thing). If you owned an EV, you'd drive it most of the time.
>>29119241I paid $1800 for this last weekend and it gave me 36mpg driving it back from Florida. 2011 2.5 SE 5MT w/95k miles. Put 1500 miles on it already.it needs an abs pump and a ac compressor, i already bought the abs pump along with a bunch of cosmetics (front door cards, headliner) at a junkyard for $200.
>>29119719Why would I buy a second car just so I didn't get to drive the car I like? That would be cucking myself.I drive a manual mechanical miata and love driving, an EV wouldn't be what I want. I've had faster cars, but this is what I like.It cost me less than $5k. It's also never out of commission, I've driven miatas 12-13 years now and can easily repair anything that's likely to happen.You're pretending like gas cars fail all the time. I've driven 20-30 y.o. shitboxes for 20+ years and have had maybe 2 weeks total downtime for repairs. I even had a 300k mile car and it was fine. I got the potentially as low as 60 figure from a pro-EV site.Stay boring, excel nerd.
>>29119762>Why would I buy a second car just so I didn't get to drive the car I like?Then don't? This isn't a counterargument. No offense, but you just sound too poor to own a used EV if you're this obsessed on that point. It's probably why you keep going back to the leaf.>You're pretending like gas cars fail all the time.No I'm not, I've explicitly pointed out the fact that EVs are fail basically never. Never.
>>29119766>No offense, but you just sound too poor to own a used EVYour whole argument, and OPs, is that EVs save money...
>>29119771>Your whole argumentNo, my argument is what I said. You just keep trying to cut things up into "I own one car, it has to be heavily used, I totally have only been off the road for two weeks out of twenty years by doing this, etc".You are not only wrong, you have a very specific angle that you feel the need to enforce on everyone else. You are trying to justify your lifestyle and this is why you're treating other people "just driving an EV" as a lifestyle. It's really obvious what you think of EVs cause you keep talking about just the leaf, cause it's the cheapest used EV, so you gravitate towards it and won't even consider anything else.
>>29119772Don't bullshit me, your argument was that EVs save money - presumably because you're too poor to afford something fun to drive. Or else you're irrationally scared of gas stations, who knows?
>>29119773>your argument was that EVs save moneyThey do. An EV would save you money, most likely, you just don't like the fact that the up front cost is higher than you're used to.
>>29119201EV's carry inherent risk, and there is a gaslighting/shill campaign that makes them difficult to purchase.
>>29119774Whatever you say bud. If I refute that it would sound like I was bragging.EVs are not the driving experience I enjoy and I'm willing to pay for gasoline no problem. I spend more on alcohol every day, I worry about fun. I like driving.
>>29119777>Whatever you say bud. If I refute that it would sound like I was bragging.It would sound like a weirdly specific and obviously untrue in an objective sense.I'll just repeat it since it's still true. You'd probably save money driving a used EV. And it wouldn't be a fussy car.
>>29119779And I'll repeat it, I don't fucking care. I like driving, I like engines. I'm literally a mechanical engineer, for a reason.I've got 20-25 acres, goats, chickens, 7 dogs, 6 garages. I chose my car because it's fun and very easy to work on myself.
>>29119201>whysome people still have sex with women in the year of our lord 2027-1
>>29119784You're just shaking your fist at clouds.
>>29119788So it goes.
>>29119738The Passat is a great car. Drives so nice.
because hybrids exist and cost slightly less than pure EVs. You can fill a hybrid up in a min and get 60 mpg, but you have to charge an EV all day to get maybe 100mpge, and if you use the quick chargers that drops to 30-40mpge. Oil and gas is still relatively inexpensive in the US, so it doesn't make sense to adopt EV yet
>>29119804Hybrids don't get 60 mpg, you don't own one.An EV will get way better than 100 mpge unless you live in a place like rural New England where the electricity costs 3x the national average by the fuel costs 1x.
>>29119809NTA but pretty close if you drive them properly.
>>29119815The issue isn't "driving properly". It's stuff like "My commute includes hills, this decreases my gas milleage by 2 and there's nothing I can do about it besides take a longer route". Yes on a flat road with an entirely predictable drive path, good weather, traffic that doesn't make you use brake force greater than regenerative, and you don't do stuff like use the heater, then you can get the advertised gas mileage.In reality, expecting a little less is what happens. I drive a hybrid and I'd actually buy another plugin hybrid over an EV, but I won't take away from EV's practical cost advantages.
>>29119672Mate, I live in Australia if there is big enough thunderstorm my internet goes out. The infrastructure is dogshit here.
>>29119201It make no vrum vrum and kachk psh kachunkbvruuuuuum
>>29119201you only save money if you have a charger at home. most people don't>>29119672delusional authoritarian fantasies
>>29119201I like gas cars more and they have more soul.
>>29119201because most places are now literally instituting yearly fines for buying one.
>>29119654>100mi of rangei would only have to charge it once a week with my commute so that's good enough for me
>>29119204>it takes 15 seconds to fill up the tankno one cares and no one wants to get accosted by niggers at the gas station every morning
>>29120126"you have to pay an annual tax to own an ev" says man who pays tax on every gallon of gas he pumps
>>29120129if that's a problem for you then having an EV and charger outside (strongly recommended not to install them fully indoors in case of fire) will be even worse
>>29120129Gibsmedat copper
>>29120126Governments can't collect gas taxes from EV cars and they need those to maintain roads so they bill you in another way.
>>29119201>EV's are like $10k more than gas carsnot really, not anymoremaybe its close to that at the absolute bottom of the market, with things like the fiat 500 and suchbut anywhere above that, its either even steven or a rounding error either way. >why are people still buying gas cars?mostly because for an EV to make sense, you need to be able to charge at home. not just because its cheaper, tho that is absolutely a factor, but mostly because owning an EV without charging at home is extremely impractical. a 10 or 15 or 20 minute charging stop in the middle of a road trip, after having already driven for 3-4 hours (=200-300 miles), is fine. you were going to stop anyway to pee, stretch your legs, grab coffee etc. adding charging only makes what would've been a 5-10 minute stop with an ICE into a 10 mins longer one. no big deal, especially since that shit only happens a low single digit number of times per year (for the vast majority of people).but imagine having to do that twice or thrice a week. every week. after work. when you really wanna head home asap because its already 6pm and you need to be in bed by 12, and you have to cook and do chores and maybe chill for a while too. and now you have to go to a charger, spend 20 mins there? and possibly also wait in line before you can do that at all? yea, no. but if you can charge at home, you don't have those issues. you head home, you plug the fucker in, and you wake up every day to a fully charged car. if anything, it ends up saving you time, because you don't even need to do the weekly trip to a gas stationand, incidentally, this is also why EVs depreciate so much. people that aren't rich enough to buy a new car are also probably not rich enough to own their own home. which you kinda need in order to be able to charge at home. which you need to make an EV viable.there are tons of people out there that would LOVE to get a used model 3 for 15k, but can't, because no home charging.
>>29119876This has fuck all to do with anything. If a thunderstorm takes out a power line then you aren't pumping gas, either.>>29119880Most people can charge their car at home.
>>29120194>Governments can't collect gas taxes from EV cars import taxes, sales taxes, vehicle registration fees, electricity surcharges,>and they need those to maintain roads so they bill you in another way.road maintenance comes from the general coffers and is usually most directly funded by property tax in the immediate area of the road>>29120150>>29120143skill issue, i plug my shit into my wall indoors and just use that normal rate 120v (i am an Illegal E-Moto Child)
I am absolutely willing to pay $5 a day to drive a car I enjoy.That's the upper end of theoretical EV savings. Make a sandwich at home instead of spending $10 / meal on your lunch break if you want to save that.
>>29120847lol, no, faggot. Saving money on food and saving money on fuel are not a paradox.That is not the upper limit on savings, btw.
>>29120853That was just an example to show how trivial the savings are. Sure you can do both. But I see cars as fun, not a financial spreadsheet. Pay a little, live a little.Dude, people spend like $40 a day on food (I know ppl who spend more than that in a meal), the ag industry is massively polluting, and no one says a word.EV savings aren't that great unless you live somewhere with huge gov't incentives.Here's the thing, let's take Norway / Denmark. They highly taxed gas cars without taxing EVs, but once most people had EVs, they started taxing them again...
>>29120858>That was just an example to show how trivial the savings are.In other words, not an argument. Saving money on food and saving money on fuel are not a paradox.
>>29120864No, but you EVfags care more about savings than driving enjoyment. You could save that money in soooo many different ways. Why are you even here? Is having a car purely a financial thing to you?
>>29120873
>>29120873>No, but you EVfags care more about savings than driving enjoyment.No they don't. You don't give a shit about cars, you're obsessed with the car you own, whatever it is, and that's all. That's why you try to talk about food when the economics of an EV comes up.
>>29120904>You don't give a shit about cars, you're obsessed with the car you own,Sure, that's why I'm a mech eng who has done legal racing since 16. I was my uni's FSAE driver in '08, the clutch was a paddle on the steering column. I like cars from all brands, as long as they feel right and do what I tell them to.You drive like every other commuter so you just see fuel savings, quirks, and features.We are not the same, this isn't the place for you.The savings of EVs are equivalent to savings in food, or I could've brought up clothes, whatever. The point is that you are taking minimal savings to drive a boring, sterile suveillance shitbox - why are you on /o/? Maybe try /biz/ if you want to spreadsheet it up.
>>29120916You're the guy who just yesterday said EVs are bad because you own chickens. You're wrong, btw, food and gas are not paradoxes.
>>29120930>said EVs are bad because you own chickensNope. You said I was poor for not wanting an EV (because you're a shill). I simply demonstrated that I wasn't and apparently that bothered you.It's only you EVfags who care about saving $5 a day over living for yourself.
>>29120942>You said I was poor for not wanting an EVYou obsess over costs while blaming anything other than your shitbox, when an EV would in fact save you money. You even do it in another thread. Only someone who is poor does this, because he can't afford the up-front cost of the EV.You can't admit it saves money. You say anything to admit it doesn't save money. You find anything to say to say anything other than it saves money.
i like evs because they sound convenient and fun enough since they still go fast even if no vroom vroom noises but every actual modern example of an ev is dogshit but even then only because every modern car, regardless of power source, is dogshit
>>29120847You said in the EV thread yesterday that you drive an hour to work and an hour back everyday. That's not $5 in gas.
>>29120951>You can't admit it saves money.Have you not been reading my comments? I'll gladly pay $5 a day to drive a car I enjoy.EV saves money over a new ICE, I never said it didn't. In fact, I admitted you get like $5 a day in savings. But I got the car I actually wanted, for $4k and it's reliable as fuck. Why would I drive something I don't enjoy driving (this is /o/), that is guaranteed to have surveillance to save a paltry sum a day? You're a shill.
>>29120958No, I said I have done that at points in my life. It's about 20-25 min each way now, and there's no traffic here so I don't have to do that stop and go shit.
>>29120960You are a liar who obsessed over a car you should probably actually own.
>>29120963>a car you should probably actually own.Yep, shill.
>>29120962>No, I said I have done that at points in my lifeNo you said an hour commute. FYI you still pay more than $5 from this post alone. You li
>>29120967Ligma
>>29120967Yeah, I'm a grown man, at points in my life I did have an hour each way commute. I don't anymore.Learn2Read, maybe that's why you're so fucking poor you worry about saving less than a big mac a day.
>>29120970>I changed my story laterLiar.Nobody is fooled. All anyone is thinking about is how you just made up a $5 number, it's obviously untrue, you do this shit in multiple threads, and you write whatever it takes to make your story sound plausible.You are the actual worst kind of poster. It doesn't even sound like you do this for money.
>>29120973>All anyone is thinking about is how you just made up a $5 numberI got that from picrel. I hate AI, too, but why don't you refute the claim?I did drive an hour each way for several times in my life, I never once claimed that I was doing so now.I'm sorry that you condense cars to fuel savings, but I like driving. I get maybe 20mpg and do not care a single bit.
>>29120979>picrelAh, I just like my chickens.Again, I don't like AI either but the google search AI just goes off various sources and the only generative part is how it's worded.
>>29120981This AI is assuming gas cars average about 40mpg.
>>29120988Oh no! My 20mpg car costs $6 a day!I live driving, I will pay pay that to get what I want.
>>29120991So you openly claim you only drive to work and back?
>>29120994You're trying too hard, shill.
>>29119201You only spend like $1k on gas a year if you drive 10k miles. Do the math. An EV depreciates like $10k per year of ownership because people know the batteries go to shit. By 100k miles, you'll be lucky to get $10k for the EV you bought for $50k.You lose a substantial amount of money compared to a gas car, if you consider tens of thousands substantial which most working class poors do. You're not considering that it's actually cheap to fuel a gas car, and EVs devalue like crazy in comparison to a gas car. Even hybrids don't ever pay off the initial cost difference. Retards pay more because they don't actually do the math, they don't know how because retards can't even fathom the equations needed. Use chatgpt I guess.
>>29119201I pay less registration and insurance fee on a V8 car then I can with an EV car in a "green" state. It's not like I drive my car every day, but also I don't drive more than 50 miles a day to matter the cost of fuel. In fact nothing's changed and there is no reason to get a 2nd car purely for commute or to steal electricity from the school parking lot over night, it's highly uneconomical. The registration cost won't change unless you sell your EV car to the next person, who will pay less for registration of a re-assessed vehicle. The point is there is no reason to get a new car in this government caused economic bubble, and EV's are new cars.
>>29120741>i plug my shit into my wall indoorsthat's a fire waiting to happen
>>29120963What a dumb fucking thing to say
>>29120957>but every actual modern example of an ev is dogshitNope. The trick is finding an EV on ICE foundations. Those are the best.
>>29119201>you make up the difference in a few years with fuel savingsWhy do you people say this like electricity is free?
>>29121411Stop spamming your buyers remorse cope.
>>29121411>Anon discovers a PHEV more than 5 years later.
>>29119201>a few yearsIt's like 10 years unless you are looking at a cheap shitty low range EV. And that break even assumes you don't need a battery replacement and the residual value is the same (it's not)And if you take the savings by purchasing a gas car and throw it in an investment account that pays interest it's significantly longer.And you're gay
>>29119201Because half a city lives in apartments or rents a house that they can't install a charger into.
>>29121567what's the story for pic related? were the crops tainted, or are greeks just allergic to vegetables?
>>29121536PHEVs suck unless you can get one used for cheap and don't mind daily charging for the smallest ass errands.
>>29121979Wild parsnip is toxic except for the edible root. But it appears they mistook poison hemlock for parsnip. Whoops!
>>29119201Because your EV has depreciated in 1 month more than my 911 in 2 years
>>29119203>I drive.....slower then EV's
>>29119201>Blocks your path
If we break free of oil dependence the whole Middle East becomes an useless backwater. That's why it must be done.
>>29119201Not every home (apartments) can have a charging station. If you can and you don't have an EV by now though, you are a massive retard
>>29125800stop being antisemitic
>>29125783>obviously deceptive chart so, its range goes from 72% to 64% of the EPA rating over 1500 days, aka 5 years64/72=0.888(repeating) so, after 5 years, the model 3 still has 89% of its initial rangesounds pretty good to me.
I'm not a faggot, simple as.
>>29119201if you live around DEI you need a dedicated secure garage that wont get blocked in to charge it.
>>29119284when I buy beaters I judge the seller more than the car.do have valid reason to sell a good running beater, like new baby and SUV and tight parking?are they more afraid of me than I am of them?do they try to hide THEIR address? (curb stoner)do they come from a culture that takes care of cars?
EV ownership is like AIDS. No one involved can keep it to themelves, they just want to spread.
>>29126797just stop being poor lol
Because your lack of math skills and never actually owning a car makes you dellusional. 10k worth of gas if we take $50 per fuel up and 350 miles of range is 70,000 miles. Over 70,000 miles, you will pay more in tire replacement due to all the instant high torque and vehicle mass, coolant, eventual battery replacement, higher insurace cost, subscription services, home charging related cost, hidden repair cost for anything propietary and labor cost for anything high voltage and software related.You aren't saving money, you are just redistributing your cost to a whole new set of apparatus to keep your vehicle running.That is not accounting for the shortcoming that you will need to compromise in time and convinenience associates with an EV.EVs are another Board Ape Yacht Club, 4cuck level trolling maticiously engineered by smart assholes against the tech and engineering illiterates...what /o/ would call wrenchlets
>>29119374Some guy listed his QV here in Japan at auction for $21k starting, $26k buy it now and I didn't bid because he was an asshole, then it went unsold, and he hasn't re-listed it since. Now I'm kicking myself. >2017>40k miles>red>no carbon seats
>>29119438>>29119366>>29119290Battery degradation is also about spontaneous combustion rates increasing as well as a predictable decrease in capacity (which is bad enough already).
>>29119823but hills destroy EV range...same with weather and acceleration
>>29126802then why are they so fucking expensive retard
>>29119201>spyware >charging>batteries>cables>software updatesall the worst parts of technology, now on your car!
>>29119201Not everyone is gay anon, despite what Netflix told you.
>>29119706>>29119719>But I guarantee Leafs suck ass to driveI own one and it has good driving dynamics for a 3500lb car with only 150hp, feels a lot lighter than it is while still being able to take corners fast without tipping.
>>29119201Cars are just shit now. Honda can't even make a fucking Civic without a MAJOR engine issue (google Honda head gasket). Why the fuck would I buy one of these dogshit ICE cars for similar money to a Model 3? Anyone? Any fucking reason at all? Maybe if I had to take giant road trips frequently it would be annoying to find charging stations. But besides that I'm drawing a blank.Commuter: EVTruck: Old tow pig if you need/want oneFun weekend car: whatever you want
>>29127112normal gas cars have all of these
>>29119696i live in a functional country so if youre innawoods and dying a helicopter comes to pick you up and it's free
they look like straight ass. im not trying to drive a car that looks like ass. it's that simple.
>>29127442>freeSubsidized by taxpayers you mean.
>>29120143I don't need to charge my ev outside of my house thoughbeit
>>29119201>cheap ICE: over 500km range>cheap non-Chinese EV: under 150km range in perfect weather, slow driving, brand new car>cheap Chinese EV: dead in under 5 years with zero chance of fixing, also 300km real range tops.I also hate how locked down everything is. I don't want to "login" to my car. I don't want to have internet connection for full useability. I don't want to seek through multiple menus to change wiper speed.Give me an EV with analog buttons for everything, with real world 500 km range both in subzero and scorching heat above 40C, even when driving fast, then I'll consider to buy it USED 5 years later.I want an EV but they are just not for me.
>>29127545which i pay into. its like insurance
>>29125800US and India have remarkably similar sensibilities. Jeet nation.
>>29123721Your imaginary 911 costs as much to insure as an EV depreciates.
>>29131868This I want a modern but dumb car without the middle console tablet and physical buttons instead.I can just use my phone to navigate.I wish someone made such a car.
>>29119204>the resell value is higherdo we tell him..........
>>29120407Good points. I have my own house, bought a used 2023 Dacia Spring 65 Extreme for 10k euros cash in hand, and I charge at home (takes like 8 hours but whatever, I charge literally one night a week).It's a great car and it cost me nothing. If you have a house and you rarely do long trips, a used EV is a no-brainer.
>>29126802>I can't tell you anything about it>what do you want to know about it?
>>29126628ok fatso
>>29131953My mom has one too and only uses it for shopping.How long do you expect the car to last?
>>29119464based pragmatist anon
>>29131991>How long do you expect the car to last?ntathe car part (ext panels, interior trim, seats, etc) will last as long as any other car of equal build qualitythe motors, essentially unkillable. you'll never hit the requisite mileage unless you're a cab driverthe part everyone worries about is the batteries, and there the answer is complex-if you're REALLY unlucky (we're talking well below 1%), you might experience an actual failure. dead battery, car no work, needs new one. if you're even more unlucky, and that happens outside of warranty, you're basically out of a car. given current battery costs and EV depreciation curves, a dead battery = car gets scapped.-but realistically, what's gonna happen is that the battery slowly degrades. car still works, just less mileage. for modern EVs, expect ~90% range left after 5 years, ~80% after 10. we don't really have any decent data for longer periods, EVs haven't been a thing long enough. -oh, and, while you're waiting for all those years to pass, batteries keep getting cheaper and cheaper all the time, so, if you're buying now, maybe in 15-20 years when you need a new battery it won't actually total the car.
>>29131991What the other guy here said: >>29132002I'll add some stuff: I'm the guy who got that car. It had 94% State of Health on the battery when I bought it (tested and certified), and considering they lose most of their power at the start of their lifespan, and then settle, I'd say I have 12 good years on this car.Also it's an NMC battery, not LFP.Quick rundown on NMC:>lasts less>costs more>much more powerful with weight being equalEVs with an NMC battery tend to be much lighter and therefore more powerful than LFP batteries.If you look at two EVs, both with a 100 horsepower engine, but one has NMC and the other has LFP, the NMC one is going to perform orders of magnitude better. I've drive-tested both and LFP cars feel like fucking bricks to drive.My Dacia weighs less than a ton, has a 65 hp engine, and NMC battery. Its 0-100 km/h is mediocre as hell, but its 0-20 km/h is nuts. If you're at a traffic light and the light turns green, this thing leaves the asphalt like nobody's business
>>29131950tell me what?
>>29132050If you want to see its acceleration from 0 in action:https://youtu.be/BE_hD0zIW9M?si=95NfV3aOpEoUDNvFGo to 5:09After about 45 km/h it slumps hard and accelerates very slowly, obviously, but before then it's pretty nuts. This thing eats city intersections for breakfast
>>29119464EVs would be so great if they had interiors like this
>>29132063being an EV or not has 0 effect on the interiorwell, except for the part where an EV never needs a manual trans, so you'll never see that. well, except you totally could, but it'd be pretty stupid. only ferrari would be stupid enough to waste the space and money that would take. but yea, your problem isn't with EVs, its with modern cars, most of which do actually such ass in this respect.some of the common problems (no or only touch buttons, piano black abuse) are slowly being rolled back, after damn near a decade of customers and reviewers universally shitting on themother features of nucars, like the screens, are here to stay, but we can except that eventually the mfgs will figure out the usability problems
>>29132050>lasts less>~80% after 10 yearsSounds like a non-issue
>>29132096It lasts more if you treat it right, meaning you charge to 100% only when you need it, otherwise keep it at around 80.It also doesn't like fast charging, but it's better in extreme temperatures than LFP
>>29119201>you make up the difference in a few years with fuel savingsNo you don't.. The added monthly load of an electric car will push your entire household electrical cost into the upper tier kilowatt hour cost rate. So not only will charging your car cost a lot, everything else you do at home will cost more too.Self-Entitled Power Theft USA examplehttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/FpGGvLEUDk0Power Theft example in Englandhttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/Agy_iazEw8I
>>29119208>driving some clapped out 30 year old civici mean just ride a bike at that point, youll save thousands!
>>29119201im straight
>>29132757>i mean just ride a bike at that point, youll save thousands!Even if you don't have a car and use only an ebike, you might still buy auto insurance in order to obtain the "Underinsured Driver", "Uninsured Driver", or "Phantom Driver" features for economic protection. A car might hit you and if they are a ghost car, migrants, or have no insurance, then you have to eat all the medical costs.
>>29132290>average cost per kwh is 18 cents>car has 40 kwh batteryuhhhhhhhhhhh bro? where's the expensive part?Also you posted propaganda videos completely unrelated to your retarded point, that's curious
>>29132767and obese
>>29119281You could take your chances on multiple shitboxes and still be well ahead.
>>29119679I went to visit a buddy in another town. 120 miles both ways and we drove around in my car all day. I left at 5am and came back at near midnight. You're telling me I need to not only buy a new car, but stop half way through and charge it for additional hours both ways, maybe even 3 times? Take a hike fag.
>>29133121ntaif it was just the 240miles of front and back, you'd have been able to do it on a single charge with almost all modern EVs. only real exceptions being those tiny euro/chink ones that are specifically and explicitly marketed as city runabouts, with ranges ca 200 milesif its 240miles plus you're also gonna drive around while you're there, yea, you'd have needed a 20min charging session somewhere in the day. which a normal person wouldn't really find problematic.i mean, if you're out all day, you have to stop and grab lunch/dinner/something, right? well, just drop the car at a charger while you're doing that. except ofc you're not a normal person. you're an anti-ev shill, and not a good one at thati mean, multiple charging sessions? hour long charging sessions? those werent a thing even in the days of the early model Snot to mention the sheer stupidity of "yea, i wanna drive for 2 hours to visit a friend, then 2 hours back, oh, and during the visit? yea, we'll just drive around, not hang out or something."
because EVs are literally all modern cars, and literally all modern cars are GAY
>>29133162Hang yourself, sooner rather than later, EV shill.
>>29119201lol
>>29119201Some of us prefer to just rail twinks when we're away on business trips rather than openly advertise our faggotry by driving an EV.
>>29119416Before the Iran War you could easily get good shape Model 3s and electric Audi's for 20k (minus another 4.5k rebate) that were only a few years old.
>>29135900Why not do both?
The used car market is still a significant portion of the actual car market. There is a significant portion of people who is not touching cars over 5k€ or 10k€, and those do not exist yet on te EV front.A gasoline or diesel has a target of about 700-1000km on a single tank. You may not like it, but that is a large psychological hurdle.It also means 150-300km EV shitboxes are stuck as dead end commute cars, which isn't bad, but its harsh as a reality Or rather that buying a cheap EV as your only car is not yet feasible. Cue the gasoline 700km figure That do mean you might buy a cheap shitbox to drive cross country, which needs to be quite much nicer than the commute car to drive cross country. And the leaf/miev/citygo
>>29125800hence why the u.s. refuses to shift to evs. low middle east oil exports = the petrodollar becomes irrelevant and massive inflation and global economic collapse ensues.
>>29119201If you make long distance drives regularly, EVs aren't worth the hassle because of how slow and scarce chargers are. Hybrids are a much better alternative if you're worried about fuel efficiency.t. has a regular monthly 600 mile trip
>>29126862>never actually owning a car>we take $50 per fuel upWhat car have you driven only takes 10 gallons of gas?
>>29136502>If you make long distance drives regularly,Poor people shit. Time is money. People with jobs fly.
>>29136533300 miles (600 for the round trip) is in that weird intermediate range where flying actually takes longer than driving, because all the added time of driving to and from the airports and the busywork of security eats up the time saved from the flight being quicker.>abloo abloo you don't own a plane? poorfagWe're on 4chan, I know damn well that you don't own a private plane. Plus even if you did, the whole thing of time wasted driving to and from the airports still applies.
>>29119719It’s crazy how EVs never need struts, tires, coolant flushes, light bulbs (often hundreds or thousands on modern cars), etc etc. you also just assume that an electric drivetrain is impervious to damage and never needs repairs, which isn’t true, even if it is a lot less often than an ICE engine.
>>29136529Not that guy but most NA market 4cyl econobox type cars only have 13 gallon tanks. If you refuel at a 1/2 or 1/4 tank you can fill up for under $50.
I had a coworker that bought a used Tesla for like $14k and I actually though it was a really good deal he seemed to really like it he even used FSD
>>29119201how much is the cost for new batteries and how often you have to replace them? also it compared that with the price of maintenance of a gas car?
>>291366132010s era leafs go through batteries in less than 50k miles, newer LFP batteries last over 300k miles. By then you'll have thrown the car away because the linkage is expensive as shit to replace
>>29136623>By then you'll have thrown the car away because the linkage is expensive as shit to replaceretarded misinfo FUDhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=-23DpEl3jF8refurb batteries are becoming exceptionally easy to come by as more and more vehicles are produced, more are wrecked in accidents, and more used vehicles increase demand
>>29136571>even if it is a lot less oftenhmmmmmmmm
>>29119231The battery will be blown out on that one.
>>29119672>planning a new local natural gaswhat is the FUCKING point in EV if you burn fuel to make energy, just get an ICE
>>29125800too bad everyone ships shit around on diesel trucks and ships, plastic is made out of oil and elecrticity is made from fossils in every country except Scandinavia
>>29136582>most NA market 4cyl econobox type cars only have 13 gallon tanks.So not 10 gallons. Thanks retard.>If you refuel at a 1/2 or 1/4 tank you can fill up for under $50.Thats not "filling up," stupid. Kill yourself.
>>29136543>300 miles (600 for the round trip) is in that weird intermediate range where flying actually takes longer than drivingAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is an attempt at a cope but it doesnt work because of how wrong it is. LA to Vegas is 280 miles. Driving takes 4 hours. From My house to the airport, 30 minutes, get there 30 minutes early, flight is 1hr 5 min. That's just over 2 hours. Half the time of driving.
>>29119201Seriously thinking about it. I live in a spread out shithole where anywhere is want to go is 25 minutes plus from the start point and I'm spending about 6k in petrol a year. It would pay for itself pretty quickly.
>>29136669>EVs only need brakes>Aktually they still need just about everything an ICE car does, just less frequent powertrain repairsThat’s a hell of a goalpost shift, and belies how dishonest the whole argument surrounding EV repair is from the EV proponent side. EVs need basically the same amount of maintenance that ICE cars do, especially when you factor in the increased consumption of certain wear items like tires and struts. And god help you if you do need a powertrain repair, basically everything that could go wrong requires replacing the entire motor and/or battery, making any failure, however unlikely, catastrophic.
>>29136695you decouple from the wider energy market and whoever produces it can choose the cheapest and/or most efficient methodyou can even subsidize your own fuel by throwing up some solar if your local providers are overchargingelectric cars are also far more efficient in converting it's stored energy into movementif you used a rather inefficient gasoline home generator to charge a model y you would still get something like 25-30mpg despite all the losses
>>29136832oil+filter changesair filtersspark plugs and wiresbelts and hosescoolanttransmission fluidbrake padsalternatorsfuel pump/filter
>>29120407I own an EV and this is really not a big fucking deal at all. I thought the same shit until I owned one. You charge the car from 10%-70% in 15 mins. The higher you want to top it off the longer it will take. This is on an older Tesla that doesn't have very fast supercharging or crazy battery chemistry. The big tradeoff is that these cars are a fucking novelty for self driving. Even if you don't pay for self driving the Autosteer and tracking assisted cruise control shit is awesome if you have to sit your ass in traffic. Just set the distance you want to keep from cars in front of you, and done. You can even merge no problem. Yeah other cars are coming out with it now, but it's nowhere near as good as Teslas. The depreciation is ass in part because elon is a jew and they basically hustle it to force new sales and in part because the battery + motors are the only real valuable thing and if they go you're looking at a bomb approx the value of the car to replace. Unless you live near a metro area with independent tesla repair shops willing to fix your battery you're on your ass for the value of the car.
>>29136889EV’s have coolant, belts and hoses, and brake pads dipshit. Did you think your EV is air-cooled or something? They have the most complex cooling systems of all automobiles, like that 8-way valve that Tesla uses.
>>29136502I regularly prefer my EV for long road trips but I also live in a civilized country with readily available chargers
>>29136695>what is the FUCKING point in EV if you burn fuel to make energy, just get an ICEBecause there is benefit for getting power from more efficient ways of sourcing it. In the SPECIFIC case of ICE automobiles versus EV automobiles, an ICE automobile is considerably more inefficient at using all of the energy contained within that liquid fuel versus burning that fuel in a genuine power plant that would also recycle much of the heat. In an ICE automobile, a large amount of heat is wasted and thrown away and only a small fraction of the energy is captured to provide motion for the automobile. In that sense, the quantity of waste emissions is also greater.
>>29136502>>29136952Or you know, just drive a car that’s good on gas. I also do a ~600 mile trip several times a year and I can do it one tank in my LeSabre. That thing has a max range of like 650 miles if you keep the speed sensible on the highway.
>>29119201Because I like them
>>29136695>>29136964also, even more importantly, EVs don't just reduce pollution, they *displace* it.X amount of pollution from a powerplant 100 miles away from a city is MUCH better than X amount of pollution generated inside the city, right outside people's homes and offices, where they are exposed to it directly. oh, and EVs also reduce pollution from brake dust, because regen braking.but all else being equal, they do produce more pollution from tire particles, because heavier. but the delta is pretty small, essentially negligible for large cars/suvs (which ofc are the ones that produce the most tire particles)so, yea, even if you assume a worst case scenario (power generated from dirty coal, and we're comparing EVs vs modern hybrid cars), you still get a pretty big win for public health.
>>29121031Wouldn't the diminishing returns on EV ownership also skyrocket if you factored in how much it contributes to your electric bill if you charge at home? You didn't touch upon that.
>>29136911Brake pads last longer on an EV, stupid. It's called regenerative braking. You cant afford an EV because you're poor. You're poor because you're stupid.
>>29137217more like vaginative gaying amirite
>>29137217>can’t bring himself to admit he thought that EV’s were air-cooledAnd I’m the stupid one apparently kek
>>29137260>he doesn't know old nissan leafs were air cooled
>>29137265>this one specific EV was such a piece of shit that it didn’t even have water-coolingI wonder why old Leaf’s had so much trouble starting in hot climates? There’s a reason literally every EV on sale today has water-cooling, and rather complex water-cooling at that. They eventually learned the lesson that they’re required to avoid issues in hot and cold weather. Nissan building the shittiest cars on the road is not evidence against that. But I do give this a bait a solid 4/10 because I replied.
>>29137081your car might do 600 miles but I can'tI need to step out and stretch my little faggot legs so I just plug my car to charge at that point and accomplish the same thing
>>29136911>>29137217yeah, they have a comparatively small cooling systems because evs are 95%+ efficient compared to an ICE vehicle rejecting 80-60% of energy consumed as heata small sealed system that exchanges heat between motor/battery/cabin is not a common maintenance item
>>2911920110 years, and by 10 years/100k miles your EV has no resale value. The batteries will not be holding a charge as well, with an already concerning range when they were new, and it costs tens of thousands to replace them.You were almost there but do more of the math. Mess around on KBB with resale values of EVs at different years and mileage. A gas car at least nets you a decent trade in value, EVs lose tens of thousands in resale value.
>>29137594I'll also point out that even a hybrid takes 8-10 years to even break even, and they also lose resale value quicker than gas-only vehicles. But a hybrid may be right on the line where it still makes economic sense.I also did my equations when gas was around $4 and I only drive around 10k miles a year, so they may be outdated or not apply as much to you. It made zero sense to buy an EV or even hybrid, unless you like the electric boost but you're paying for it in upfront costs that you'll likely never see returns for unless you keep the car for 8-10 years just to break even and start slightly saving.
>>29119201Because rumble rumble vroom
Most EVs have dog shit exterior and interior design because the catfish obsessed designers are stuck on the idea that they have to be extra futuristic looking.
>>29136768NTA but youre leaving out check in, waiting for your bags at your destination, going through TSA, and other assorted airport bullshit that adds at least another hour to your itinerary. And not everyone lives half an hour from an airport and is going to a destination like Vegas where Mccarran is practically on top of the strip. Oh and if youre staying at your destination for an extended period and want a car then you need to tack on the added time and cost of getting a rental instead of just using your own car youd have travelled with.Im not entirely sure about 600 miles but in terms of time, in my experience, a 4-5 hour drive is your break even point vs flying
>>29138131Yeah I'm so fucking sick of this new idea of futurism. I'll take anything over it, even more 2019 Buick Encores. At least those were just ugly instead of a blend of ugly and retarded.
>>29137386I never understood this EV argument:>”long charging times don’t matter because everyone needs a 40 minute break every 2 hours”>everyone: not me>”long charging times don’t matter because my time is worthless so a 40 minute break every two hours is fine
