Why don't you run your car on hydrogen?https://files.catbox.moe/63hfta.mp4
in case you don't click on catbox links:>>>/wsg/6239166
>>29097921cuz it doesn't look like this yet
Hydrogen is far more expensive and the hydrogen infrastructure extremely limited. Even places like South Korea and Japan that heavily pushed for hydrogen are moving away from it.
>>29098034there is a reason for thatthey don't want you to use hydrogenbecause you can make it at homea single commercial wind turbine could power electrolyzers and produce a ton of hydrogen every day
>>29097921Because it takes more power to create it than it creates when it burns, and because it’s very difficult to store large amounts of it, you have to have it in its liquid phase to get it dense enough to have useful range and cryogenics in a car is pretty bad, or you can store it at some ungodly amount of PSI and still get shitty range and be riding around on a giant bomb if you ever crash That’s pretty much the main hurdle
>>29098083It literally says 1kg per day which is jack shit “ The exact purchase price for full-sized AutoARK® hydrogen generators is not publicly listed by the manufacturer, Millennium Reign Energy, which typically displays placeholder pricing or requires direct contact for quotes. However, historical and community tracking reports that larger residential units like the AutoARK® 55 have an estimated cost around $130,000” amazing.
>>29098098>1kg which is jack shit>travels 2,488.456 km (1,546.254 miles) on 0.950 kg (2.094 lb) of hydrogen
>>29098098>$130,000” amazing.the market is being manipulated against hydrogenthere is no logical reason why this device would cost that muchyou can build an alkaline electrolyzer capable of producing 1kg of hydrogen per day for a couple hundred dollars
this 100 cell electrolyzer produces 22.9 kg per hour or 549.6 kg per daytwo of those and you have over a ton per day, capable of supplying hundreds of carspowered by a single wind turbine
>>29098111Do you have a wind turbine?
>>29098112i have solar panelsdoes the trick as well
>>29098105https://stillwaterassociates.com/2025-cost-showdown-for-drivers-is-hydrogen-fuel-cheaper-than-gasoline/>According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) 2025 Fuel Economy Guide the average fuel economy of a FCV is 60 miles per kg (MPK) while gasoline cars get 30 miles per gallon (MPG) on average and gasoline hybrids come in at an average of 44 MPG.>To be competitive with hybrid gasoline vehicles on a per-mile basis, hydrogen would need to be priced at $5.88/kg; hydrogen has retailed at $32.94/kg in 2025 year-to-date.
>>2909812460 miles with fuel made at home for freeand you can easily scale it and produce more
>>29098111>consumes literally 1.25 MEGAWATTS>only makes 1kg of hydrogen per 50kw Assuming you have 15c per kWh electricity which is on the lowest end of pricing available anywhere in the US, that’s 7.5 dollars per kg of hydrogen, which will get you 60 miles 50kw of power gets your car 60 miles of range, a Tesla gets 4.5 miles per kw of power, so that same 50kwh of power in a Tesla would get you 225 miles of range vs 60 miles of range if you used the power to generate hydrogen It’s just retarded bro
>>29098132>consumes literally 1.25 MEGAWATTSa commercial wind turbine generates 3-6 megawattsa gas station with one wind turbine could supply hundreds of cars off the grid with hydrogen
>>29098132For reference there’s a geothermal power plant near me and it produces 50 megawatts of power and consumes an area of land that’s like a 10 mile diameter circle of geothermal wells, that’s how much power it takes to run your dumb ass hydrogen generator, you’d be dimming the lights on a whole city when you turn it onA standard 100 amp service panel on a house can only output 0.02 megawatts, that hydrogen generator wants 1.25 megawatts, you’re fucking retarded bro
>>29097921If you think the gasoline rube goldberg economy is clown world, wait until you learn the absurdity of the hydrogen fuel rube goldberg machine
>>29098135Did you completely miss the efficiency problems? 225 miles of range on a Tesla for 50kwh of power60 miles of range if it’s hydrogen for 50kwh, and you’re driving a literal bomb and have to deal with flammable hydrogen gas, and pressurizing it will take significant power as well, not just generating it
>>29098139hydrogen is much safer than batteries or gasoline tanksdid you watch the video in the OP? they didn't take any saftey measrues handling pure hydrogen
>>29098083Or you could get an EV and directly charge it with that electricity.
>>29098144why not let people use hydrogen?
>>29098132>Output Pressure: Up to 34 bar.And regular hydrogen tanks are 350 or 700 bar so you have to account for the time and energy needed to compress it to that level.
>>29098149The best use case I see for hydrogen is plug-in FCEV. Drive around town with directly charged batteries and when you want to take long trips you can rely on the higher range and quicker refueling offered by hydrogen and even that application is dwindling due to the advances in fast charging and batteries.Nobody is stopping you from using hydrogen. There are hydrogen fuel cell and hydrogen combustion vehicles you can buy right now but next to nobody wants them.
powerpaste is a solid storage solution for hydrogenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnTp3PbXza8(holy shit talking about hydrogen really rustles the jimmies)
>>29098162
>>29098159there is a global oil crisis developingyou can run internal combustion engines on hydrogen, completely nullifying this crisis
>>29098149Because simple math says it’s not a viable method? Did you pay attention at all?
>>29098165you can just suck on my fat erect cock you little pathetic shillhydrogen will reign supreme and all your shilling against it will have been a waste of time
>>29098141Cool can you comment on the range per 50kwh?>>29098167Are you alright?
>>29098135A 6mw wind turbine costs 11 million dollars A 6mw wind turbine could give you 27k miles of range if you drive teslas, with existing household infrastructure, no need to buy any equipment, vs 7200 miles of range if you use the power to generate hydrogen, and you have to spend 130,000 dollars on a hydrogen cell for your house, as well as all the equipment to pump and store the gas, so probably around 200k
>>29098172these turbines are everywhere alreadyjust add electrolyzers and you will have hydrogen fuel
>>29098164You'll have more like running your engine on a liquid fuel like ethanol or ammonia since it doesn't require a pressurized gas tank. Power to liquid isn't magnitudes worse than hydrogen electrolysis.Burning hydrogen is a terrible application due to the low efficiency compared to fuel cells. You won't get mileage anywhere close to >>29098105 with HICEV.
don't talk about hydrogen or you'll start a shitstorm :^)
>>29098175I thought you were pushing the idea of self sufficiency? Does your house have a wind turbine? Do you have a 130k dollar hydrogen generator? Even if you did you’d get more miles per kWh by a significant amount if you just drove a cheap ass Tesla kek
>>29098178with 2kw input power you can generate 1kg of hydrogen every day2kw input power is nothinglook up solar panels and wind turbines in that range
>>290981791kg of hydrogen gets you 60 miles 2 kw per day is 48kwh, that’s 216 miles if you drive a Tesla for the same amount of power
>>29098181why do you see it as competition?let me make my hydrogen at home and drive my hydrogen car you lousy muskratfuck your lithium batteries that fries people alive
>>29098181>1kg of hydrogen gets you 60 miles Maybe in a fuel cell vehicle like the Mirai. In an internal combustion engine you're looking closer to 20 miles.
>>29098182>why do you see it as a competition Are you fucking retarded?>let me make my hydrogen at homeI’d actually love to see your home hydrogen cell, can you post it?
>>29098182So buy yourself a Mirai, Nexo or whatever FCEV and that fancy hydrogen electrolyser. Maybe you can even get a used one for cheap because nobody else actually wants it.
>>29098185>Are you fucking retarded?that's all you've been doing>look EVs are much better! fuck your hydrogengo fuck yourself nigger
>>29098186fueling combustion engines is what i'm interested indiesel trucks can't afford fuel anymore and they could just run it on hydrogen
>>29098187I’ve been posting literally kid tier math and explaining to you why everything you say is stupid as fuck and makes no sense, sorry you didn’t like it
did you all just ignore the video in the OP?
>>29098187Maybe list some actual benefits of hydrogen. A FCEV can get a higher range than a comparably sized BEV but a HICEV is going to be worse.
>>29098192the benefit is that you can run any internal combustion engine on hydrogen
>>29098191The video that merely shows that hydrogen burns? Show us a full ICEV to HICEV conversion. Gasoline or diesel cars have been converted to CNG or LPG so the process itself shouldn't be that different.
>>29098182If you don’t like musk then buy some other electric car, even the hummer EV gets more miles per kWh than a hydrogen car while weighing almost 10000lbs Insane how bad hydrogen is
>>29098198here's an entire history of HICEhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle
>>29098195You can run an internal combustion engine on salad oil. There's nothing remarkable about burning hydrogen. If you want to be cool, make a hydrogen fusion reactor instead.
>>29098199composite tanks are light weightbatteries are heavykill yourselfan escooter running on hydrogen would have tens times the range of a battery driven scooter
>>29098201I’ve run diesels off basedbean oil and waste motor oil before, worked great, I even dump gasoline, transmission fluid, barbecue lighting fluid, etc into it and it runs amazing
>>29098203>an escooter running on hydrogen would have tens times the range of a battery driven scooterOh really, can you show me some examples and break this down for me? Why does the hydrogen scooter get better range than the electric scooter? I’d love to know more
>>29098203What do you intend to do with a scooter that requires such a range? People charge them at work and other public places using the existing electricity grid. Replacing batteries on the fly is easier than doing the same with gas bottles.
>>29098200Op seems to be the one unaware of HICEV. There's no real example of a regular car getting converted. The Corolla is a sports car and is using liquid hydrogen, generation of which is going to be way more complex than mere electrolysis. At that point you may as well consider rocket engines.
>>29098199>Insane how bad hydrogen isI'd say it's more of a testament how good electric motors and batteries are. Hydrogen itself isn't worse than other fuels aside from shit like embrittlement.
>>29098189You'll have to rely on public infrastructure if you want to do that. And most hydrogen available is still grey hydrogen generated from natural gas because nobody wants to invest into electrolysis.https://metiertechnologies.com/services/hydrogen-repowering-for-fleets/>6.3 miles/kg hydrogen fuel economyConsider that hydrogen costs upwards of $25/kg. So even if diesel is getting expensive, hydrogen costs even more and since it's generated from natural gas the price is going to be tied to that of oil. And that's not touching on the pathetic 250 mile range and the limited hydrogen network.
>>29098215True liquid hydrogen is pretty good, it’s just really hard to deal with, like trying to keep it from leaking past valves, o rings etc, it’s also cold as fuck
>>29098221It will be interesting to see if liquid hydrogen becomes the choice for de-carbonising maritime trade where it doesn't have to compete with the existing electric grid and charger networks.
>>29098224Probably not, SMRs would be more likely than hydrogen
>>29098111This is one of those things where they won't even tell you the price unless you're a business wanting to buy 20 of them, isn't it
>>29098228It consumes 1.25 megawatts of power so you could power roughly 1000 homes with the amount of power it takes to run it
>>29098230None of the specs matter if they won't even entertain the idea of selling it to you
>>29098232The specs matter because even if it cost 5 dollars and they had 1 million of them you could never power it
>>29098246It doesn't matter if you can power it or not because you can't get one
>>29098301Are you brown?
>>29098304we're all shades of brown anon :)
>>29098307Ah yes, as I thought
>>29098228you can build an 100 cell alkaline electroylzer yourselfbut it takes a lot of material, look at the weight of that thingbuilding electrolyzers isn't hardyou would buy such an electrolyezer as a community for your town, not as a single individualit could supply your entire town with fuel
>>29098320I think 99% of towns on earth are already set up for charging electric cars, looks like the problem is solved
>>29098332why is it an either-or issue to you?
>>29098335>Well we could use all this electricity to power our cars directly>Or we could use it to run this extremely power hungry machine to inefficiently turn water into hydrogen and run our cars on thatThere is a reason EVs are seeing widespread adoption and hydrogen vehicles are not
>>29098367Yes because big money is against and people like musk are pushing EVs There is no reason why hydrogen shouldnt be used but that’s what they have decided
>>29098375>There is no reason why hydrogen shouldnt be usedThere are many reasons and they have been outlined very clearly in this thread. Why would you use electricity to create hydrogen to power a car when you could just use electricity to power the car?
>>29098384You can’t power a combustion engine with a battery
>>29098388You can just skip the combustion engine altogether.
>>29098392Do you live in a fantasy world where combustion engines don’t exist? Trucker and farmers can’t afford to pay for diesel
>>29098396Is hydrogen cheaper than diesel? Is switching all the diesel vehicles and infrastructure over to hydrogen cheaper than switching to EVs?
>>29098398If people provide the electrolyzers and start making hydrogen locally then the price would drop to nothing Farmers generally have wind turbines so they could be making their own fuel right now
>>29098411Or just use the power available locally more efficiently by turning electric motors directly, if you can’t afford to run diesel you certainly cannot afford to use hydrogen and retrofit every engine you use
>>29098423Im sure the local workshop would help them retrofit their vehicles since they too depend on the produce
>>29098429Sounds like communism to me, figures you’re a dumb brown person who doesn’t understand simple math
>>29098429It's more effective to build new cars than to convert old ones. Few cars survive for more than 25 years.
>>29098375Japan is heavily pushing for FCEV and downright against BEV and they still don't see significant adoption.
>>29098443If they did you would see filling stations everywhere. People don’t buy hydrogen vehicles because of the limited amount of filling stations. Hydrogen gets lauded superficially but is actively blocked by big money and politics. It’s all fake that’s why hydrogen companies are going bankrupt. They say one thing and do another
just look at the history of hydrogen vehicles, then you will realize how long people could have been using itclean fuel that anyone can make at homeif japan was pushing it it would've been a reality decades agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle
>>29098447Most hydrogen companies were just natural gas companies in disguise. They tried to peddle it as a drop in replacement to justify why they should keep selling natural gas.
>>29098492Again if they really wanted to realize it they would have done soElectrolysis of water has been around for centuries
>>29098447They don't build filling stations because people don't buy hydrogen vehicles because there are multiple other better, more widely available options
>>29098504People don’t buy cars because there are not enough filling stations This is how you keep the technology from spreading, it‘s intentional
>>29098507Various countries are spending money on building hydrogen stations that nobody ends up using and after a couple of years they all get shut down.South Korea is the only place they saw any kind of relevance.There are attempts to promote it as a fuel for heavy goods vehicles but battery electric trucks simply can rely on the electric car infrastructure while dedicated truck chargers are gradually expanding. And all while electricity is significantly cheaper than fossil fuels and hydrogen.
>>29098512everytime you mention hydrogen as fuel, dedicated battery shills will show up and tell you what terrible idea it isthe internet is fiiled with disinformtion regard iteven the mythbusters episode in the OP was intended to show hydrogen is a bad ideabut you can run your current engine on hydrogenthere will be no embrittlement because it gets ignited almost instantlyyou can make hydrogen at home2kw input power for 1kg of hydrogen per day is efficient and can be scaled up easilya gas station powered by a single commerical wind turbine running electrolyzers can supply hundreds of cars with hydrogenyou don't need platinum or titan or other expensive materialsalkaline electrolyzers with gas separation are relatively cheap and easy to buildyou could have been using this technology for decadesthey talk about reducing carbon emissions when the solution has been right there all the time
>>29098105>just drive thisLmao
>>29098972How come (You) don't run your car on hydrogen either? You claim how easy and cheap everything is but it's all just schizo theory even though hydrogen cars are out on the streets.
>>29099004i don’t have a drivers license but i will help my bro to get on hydrogen next time i visit him
>>29098987it’s a concept car made by university students. imagine a scooter or bike with that rangepic rel has an air time of 30 minutes because they’re using heavy batteries if it was running on hydrogen it would fly for hours
>>29099039Are you aware of the storage problem of hydrogen? Read into it, please.Once you've understood you'll know why hydrogen combustion in vehicles hardly a feasible solution.
>>29099042there is no storage problem you can store it compressed in lightweight composite tanks or, even better, in solid state such as powerpaste
>>29098162>>29098163powerpaste
>>29099044Yeah, no. The quantity required and consequently the size of the tank is the problem.Read up what Linde has to say about it. I wish reality was different.
>>29099048read up on powerpastewhen stored in solid state you won't need high pressure cylinders since it can be stored at ambient pressure and temperaturein solid state the energy density is higher than in gaseous or liquid state
>>29099044>>29099055Does your local supermarket carry powerpaste or do you make it out of Dolemite yourself?
>>29099055If it were so easy, it would've been done already. I can't quite remember what the problem with powerpaste, but I assume it's not in the right state to be burnt efficiently enough.Look, I admire your optimism, but there is no greater industry and/or political conspiracy here to prevent hydrogen power.If it's too good to be true, it ain't.
>>29099056Of course we can’t buy it because powerful groups don’t want us to use it. It has been around since 2014. You can buy magnesium hydride and make it into paste using an agitator bead mill. After releasing the hydrogen the leftover sludge can be made into new paste
>>29099057The paste is just the hydrogen carrier. You release the hydrogen by adding water then you have whatever amount of hydrogen you need
>>29099058Are they so powerful that even Chinese aren't willing to use it?
There are also other solid state solutions where you release the hydrogen by applying heat
>>29099063Haven’t you learned anything from the Covid pandemic? They’re all one big club and they play us like fools
>>29099064They use metal hydride storage for submarines to provide air-independent propulsion while diving.
>>29099068huh.. wonder why they’re using hydrogen instead of batteries the good stuff for the military the shitty stuff for the consoomers
>>29099094Because they were designed 40 years ago. They still use lead acid batteries as an intermediary. There's newer submarine classes that use lithium ion batteries instead of hydrogen fuel cells.
>>29099101>40 years they’ve been using hydrogen >but we won’t make it available to you at reasonable prices and we will tax you for carbon emissions instead
>>29099107Who determines if a price is reasonable? FCEV used to get government subsidies and customers opted for BEV instead.
>>29099109If I bought an FCEV I would have no place to refill it in my close proximity
>>29099039Who do I need to fuck to get this bad boy running on H?
>>29099036How old are you?
It’s quite criminal how long this technology has been kept down
>>29099277If they forced the ICE phaseout twenty years ago, FCEV would have been the only practical options and maybe even HICEV could have found their place. But renewable energy was too niche back then. Fuel cells and electrolysis were already mature and don't really have much room for improvements since the losses are unavoidable. Meanwhile battery tech has made huge improvements and EVs less reliant on established infrastructure. FCEV still have a range and refuelling speed advantage but it's nowhere as big as it was.
>>29099303do you believe just because the bilderbergers decided we should use battery driven EVs and now start phasing out ICE the people are just going to play along? people love the sound of their engines
>>29099559The official ban on ICE in Europe is still 8 years away and the market has made large shifts towards EVs and this year will mark another milestone due to the increased fuel prices. China is also well ahead of the government targets.The majority of people will see reduced engine sounds as a positive, only a handful of enthusiasts think otherwise.
the global conspiracy is real and this proves it
>>29097921Very low energy density.Needs very high pressure bottles.
>>29100938wrong, see>>29098162>>29098163
>>29097921Don't like exploding.
>>29100977So you just gonna keep ignoring how much energy it requires to produce it or what
>>29101305how much energy does it require to extract the raw materials, refine them and assemble them into batteries, or to extract and refine crude oil into all the different flavors of gasoline compared to powerpaste?
>>29101285hydrogen tanks are actually safer than gasoline tanks or lithium batteries. a small dent and your battery will short and catch fire
>>29098095There is metal hydride storage, though it needs more research before it becomes viable iirc
>>29098105Never respond to it. Just filter it and move on.
>>29101625Batteries aren't used up during use. They have some slight degradation over time but they can be recycled afterwards.>>29101627Hydrogen cars still have lithium batteries to store excess power.
>>29101647>Batteries aren't used up during use.they degrade after the first charge/recharge cycle and recyling is complicated and expensivepowerpaste does not get used up, the leftover sludge can be made into new paste indefintely>Hydrogen cars still have lithium batteries to store excess power.not a necessitysupercapacitors can also be usedand on the topic of batteries: robert murray smith invented a battery based on paper and carbonink, it's as powerful as commerical AA batteries and is 100% biodegradablehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD2_NNx1k10
>>29101655Is there any commercial application using power paste? All hydrogen cars I know use 350 or 700 bar storage and there's some experiments with liquid hydrogen. Likewise, are there any that use supercapacitors?
>>29101659There are many potential commercial applications for powerpaste but is a technology that is being held down. The industry does not pick it up despite being the perfect solution for hydrogen storage.
>>29101682Fraunhofer had to build their own car to demonstrate its usefulness.
>>29101682How is it any better than all the proposed developments for BEVs? We're already seeing sodium ion getting used in commercial vehicles. The hydrogen infrastructure is barebones already and you're trying to ditch it for yet another pipedream.
>>29101659i think supercaps are utilized in some buses for regenerative breaking>Supercapacitors are used in some hybrid and electric vehicles to provide quick bursts of power and improve energy efficiency. They can charge much faster than traditional batteries, making them suitable for applications like regenerative braking and enhancing overall vehicle performance.
>>29101683They're trying to sell their own proprietary power paste cartridges because fuelling with liquids and gasses or charging via plug isn't restrictive enough.
>>29098105The Eco-Runner XII won the Shell Eco-marathon 2022, which took place at TT Circuit Assen, with an efficiency of 468 km/m^3 which equals to 5407 km/kg. >5,407km on 1 kg hydrogenthat's insanewhy do we force battery vehicles again?
>>29098105>>29101739Why not let cars run on solar? Literally infinite range.
>>29101749until night comes or the clouds cover the sun
>>29101750There is a Japanese proverb for that: 明けない夜はない.
>>29098105this thing on hydrogen with that range
>>29103294>hydrogenpowerpaste*
>>29103311What happens if you drop a wheel between the rail and the road?
>>29103613Multi track drifting.
>>29103613you're fuckedbut if your used to ride bicycles on streets with rails you know how to handle it
dissolving household aluminium foil in concentrated KOH (which you can get from hardwood ash) will produce pure hydrogennot a very sustainable method but an easy way to make hydrogen without electricity
I feel bad for hydrogen optimists. Fun fact if you take hydrogen and attach it to carbon then all it's issues go away
>>29104321the only issue it has are specific human interest groups
thousands of tons of hydrogen get wasted every year to destroy our ozone layer and install a surveillance grid
>>29104589while taxing the plebs for carbon emissions
>>29104600Hydrogen itself doesn't emit carbon. Only generating it from hydrocarbons does and you should be able to do that in an environment that absorbs the carbon such as a greenhouse.
>>29104624>Hydrogen itself doesn't emit carbonimagine my shock
>>29104589and they tell us hydrogen is too expensive lol
BMW H2R6.0 L V12 engine powered by hydrogen
>>29097921>WATER POWERED>look inside>it's just hydrolyzing the water and burning the hydrogen in an ICE
>>29106810
>>29101750we have batteries
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytg23mDd1a4why does Big Electricity want you to think Bob Lazar is a nutcase?
>>29109336if they are using solar panels to drive what is charging the batteries?and batteries would make the vehicle significantly more heavy
>>29109354he was using solid state storage back then alreadygenius
>>29109373now we can just use magnesium hydride paste that can be recycled indefinitely>>29098162>>29098163
>>29109354well, after watching the entire thing it's very obvious that he's a disinfo spook and contributed to hydrogen not being accepted by the masseshe's mixing truths with half-truths and liesfirst he's explaining how safe the tanks are but then >you need platinum for electrylsis>particle accelerator to make hydride>it's weapon grade stuff used in nuclear bombs!>you need a hydrogen gas detector >don't light your cigarettes around it!complete glownigger
>>29109443I doubt many people were discouraged by fearmongering. There's plenty of FUDD for BEVs and they're still winning the race.The biggest issue has to be the price. Charging BEVs is cheaper than gasoline, especially for people that can charge at home and even more so if they have their own solar panels. Meanwhile hydrogen costs significantly more and refuelling at home unrealistic. The second problem is the lack of infrastructure. My nearest H2 station is over 50km away and there's little promise of improvement. The tech is too dependent on achieving a critical mass and didn't offer enough advantages to achieve it. Finally the lineup of hydrogen cars was always very limited and didn't appeal to many buyers. New cars are fairly expensive though you can get used FCEV for a lot less nowadays.Tanks lasting a limited time shouldn't be a bigger issue than batteries not lasting forever.
>>29109772>I doubt many people were discouraged by fearmongering.>ever other post is "i don't want to explode"
>>29110494How come they aren't discouraged from buying BEVs? The people posting that weren't going to buy either.
>>29110507Because BEVs are the future they envision for us Elon Musk is their biggest advocate
>>29110522BEV drivers hate Musk and Musk fanboys hate BEVs.
batteries are outclassed
>>29112353Buy an ad.
>>29112372bitch i might
>>29097921The only downside to hydrogen is the cost of infrastructure. The moment that problem is resolved is the moment the world will run domestic high yield energy.You can convert existing ICE vehicles to hydrogen and it mimicks the sovl of gas while only dispersing water instead of Co2. EVs cannot do that. Hydrogen is superior and as a ICE enthusiast I'd happily go to hydro if we went there
>>29115913>the cost of infrastructure imagine if every town built electrolyzerssuddenly infrastructure everywhere
>>29118287>imagine if every town built electrolyzers
>>29118301don’t your towns have wind turbines? just one would supply hundreds of cars
>>29118287
>>29118528
humans are a brainwashed species
>>29118287Shaniqua is driving down the freeway at 80mph on 2 donuts with her hood duct taped closed.Do you really want a 2,000psi tank full of hydrogen in her trunk?Tyrone got in a shootout with Cleopheus at the gas station. They fired 32 shots total, missed eachother completely and hit 3 bystanders. Do you really want a 5,000 gallon tank of hydrogen in the back ground?
>>29121334>fear mongeringhydrogentanks are much safer than gasoline or batteriesyou don't even need pressurized tanks since you can store it in solid state at ambient pressure/temperaturethat way it stores even more hydrogen than in gaseous or liquid form
>>29121334>Tyrone got in a shootout with Cleopheus at the gas station. They fired 32 shots total, missed eachother completely and hit 3 bystanders. Do you really want a 5,000 gallon tank of hydrogen in the back ground?>don't mind tyrone having guns, worry about the hydrogen!
>>29121376Everybody should drive a blimp.
>>29122079could be based
I am pro hydrogenHowever, I think you need to accept what the reality is.Most people don't know anything about cars and they neglect their cars to a point of total failure. You can keep posting posting powerpaste or home charging units. The reality is that all hydrogens cars are build with preassure tanks right now and the engines are made to burn in that specific application. The refueling is also serverely lacking, try to find a fueling station even in california is a hassle.As much as I hate battery, hydrogen debut its hand way too early and attracted the wrong enemies and created a terrible perception to the public. If they would have invaded the other sectors first then come reel in the car industry, they could have win. Unless they return with highly dissruptive advances. I just don't see an equal footing or slightly better option could achieve market penetration.
>>29122343>the engines are made to burn in that specific applicationMost hydrogen cars you can buy are fuel cell. Hydrogen combustion is a niche within a niche.
>>29097951The og design is so good
>>29122343here's what you don't understand about the reality of hydrogen:people like stanley meyer get murdered, while others, like bob lazar or the mythbusters, make mock videos about hydrogen, so people lose interest.powerpaste is objectively better than any fuel we have available, it's clean, safe, cheap and easy to produce, and can be recycled indefintely. yet we don't see it being applied anywhere.we don't have refueling stations in every town for the same reason. which is the fact that there is a conspiracy against hydrogen. the only way to make it a reality is if the people make it happen. grass roots style.
>>29101629Storage is not that hard and actually the one advantage of hydrogen over BEV.The problem is that the efficiency of electrolysis is around 40% and of an internal combustion engine its around 30%.So in the end you are using around 15% of the energy for actual propulsion.
>>29123651>look it's totally ineffecient another psychological trick they're using so people lose interestfuel cells get up to 60% efficiency and up to 90% if the generated heat is utilized
ITT: learn every trick they use against hydrogen
>>29123714This table only covers what happens in the car.It leaves out hydrogen production.
>>29097921because i have a basic understanding of physics.
>>29123913what about gasoline production or battery production?what takes more energy?electrolysis of water or extracting and refining crude oil? extracting lithium refining it and assembling batteries?
>>29123924obviously you do not
>>29123927k
>>29123925Crude oil fuels are a net positive.You can run everything from the refinery to the drilling rigs to transporters to the factories that produce all of said equipment on fuel thats produced from that equipment and have excess for retail.Solar/wind/lithium etc currently takes 10-20 years to break even on energy consumed vs energy provided and service life of components is no much longer past that. But is getting better.Hydrogen will always be a net negative simply because you cant cheat physics.There is no source of unbonded hydrogen on this planet so you have to break it's molecular bond with another element and then have it bond again to produce energy. Perpetual motion machines do not exist.
>>29124061
>>29123925Hydrogen might make sense to store large amounts of energy - once you have the electrolyzer and the fuel cell, it's just adding more tanks, while the price of batteries scales linearily with the energy stored.But a battery has an efficiency of more than 90%, so you need dirt cheap electricity to compete - and neither electrolyzers nor fuel cells are cheap.
>>29124795>neither electrolyzers nor fuel cells are cheap.the reason is to keeping people from buying these products. like i said it's a conspiracy against hydrogen
>>29124818Nigger, I'm right at the moment working on the commissioning of an industrial scale electrolyzer.That's not your bright little kid with a glass of water and a battery.That's several thousand amps of current, cooling circuits, highly explosive gasses and the necessary explosion proof or intrinsically safe process instrumentation, pressurized vessels, non trivial control software.That's nothing you do at home at the current level of technology.
>>29124929hydrogen can not explode on its ownthat's why you can compress it to ten thousands of psiit needs oxygen to do thatan electrolyzer separates these gaseswith a 2kw electrolyzer you can generate 1kg of hydrogen per day for your own supplywith a 2mw wind turbine you can generate a ton of hydrogen per day and supply a hundred carsit's very easily scalable from simple domestic units to big industrial ones you are fearmongering again because people are clueless and are easily scared and will do irrational things (as we have seen with covid)
in this mock episode of mythbusters they are hosing hydrogen from a compressed gas cylinder directly into the carboratornotice the safety precautions
>>29125283here is the entire clip>>>/wsg/6253977the car runs, then there's a cut, something ignites the hydrogen (we can't see what it was because of the angle) and he simply closes the valve while acting shockeddo you think they were worried about getting blown up?
Alpine Alpenglow 3.5-litre twin-turbocharged V6 engine producing 740bhp3 pressurised tanks each holding 2.1kg hydrogen
>>29126142>Alpine says the car is capable of covering 100 km (62 miles)
>>29126142Yeah - hydrogen density is low.It is a fine rocket fuel with high efficiency and high specific impulse (water molecules are much lighter than CO2), but it requires giant tanks even in it's liquid form (remember the space shuttle external tank that was feeding it's internal hydrogen engine), and it is very cold (even colder than LOX), requiring more insulation and making handling more difficult.That's why space x uses liquid methane (essentially LNG) in its raptor engines, which is kind of the middle road between kerosene and hydrogen.
>>29125266>hydrogen can not explode on its ownIt can spontaneously start nuclear fusion under certain conditions. No other elements required.
>>29126504>and it is very cold (even colder than LOX),Perfect for precooled jet engines.
>>29126508>It can spontaneously start nuclear fusionNTA but, who cares? You’d have to be inside of a star for that to happen. It’s not like it’s a concern for producing fuel on Earth.
>>29126355>>29126504It’s stored in gaseous state, which has lower energy density per kg than in liquid or solid state. Storing it in solid state changes density significantly. See:>>29098162>>29098163
>>29126551>which has lower energy density per kg Bullshit. Stop talking about things you don't understand.
>>29126557My bad, I meant per volume.
>>29124061>There is no source of unbonded hydrogen on this planetWrong. Golden hydrogen exists.And steam reforming hydrogen from natural gas isn't worse energy wise than refining gasoline from crude oil.
I like hydrogen cars because they spit water out of the exhaust and I just think that's neat.
>>29126571When you realize you could have been driving around in those cars for decades, while they were crying about carbon emissions and climate change, then you should get really upset.
740 bHP and the exhaust is water
>>29127586And NOx.
>>29127586All of the fuel crisis would be over if people powered their engines with simple hydrogen. Food prices would drop, the world would be saved.
it's like only battery lobbyists are active posters on this site
>>29127814Because BEV have a practical use while FCEV are pipedreams. The hydrogen stations in the contiguous US are all in San Francisco and Los Angeles. The ones in Canada are too far apart to make it from one station to the other. That makes the supposed advantages of hydrogen allowing longer range and faster refuelling a moot point. You can find BEV chargers across the country and in the worst situations still charge from standard outlets.https://h2fcp.org/stationmaphttps://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen-locations#/find/nearest?fuel=HYThere's less than a dozen models you can buy and nothing promising on the horizon. They also cost a hefty sum in new, though you can find Mirais for cheap because the previous owners gave up on hydrogen. Refuelling at the existing stations will cost you significantly more than gasoline or electricity. There's no incentive to pick hydrogen nowadays. Keep trying to sell a fiction while ignoring reality.
>>29127586would you rather ride this thang or a faggot electric motor?
>>29128098The electric motor can be charged in my garage, the hydrogen one will never be able to be refilled, so uhh yeah The hydrogen one is also far less efficient
>>29127835>THERE'S NO INFRASTRUCTURE FOR IT OR CARS THAT MEANS IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN
stupidly wasteful power source. even more than gasoline. >either use fresh water (dumb) or desalinated ocean water (lossy conversion)>use electrolysis to break down to hydrogen and oxygen (huge energy waste)>has high stoichemetric burn ratio due to being the least energy dense element>has to be stored under very high pressure for adequate range in a vehicle>must be transported via diesel powered trucksthe whole logistics is stupid. wait until you do the math on those "HHO" kits you can buy online too lol. the average kit I see is a couple mason jars worth of hydrogen which can be consumed by 2 or 3 revolutions of a 5.3 liter engine which these are commonly advertised being hooked up to. hydrogen is a scam in every way. at least LPG has some redeeming qualities.
>>29128717It was supposed to happen a decade ago. The development is actively going backwards with service stations shutting down. Hydrogen had its chances and very few people wanted it. In the meantime BEV have seen enormous developments. I really don't see how hydrogen is supposed to break through in the future.
>>29128725>must be transported via diesel powered trucksDangerous goods regulations are starting to include battery electric trucks.
>>29128151charging a BEV takes time, hydrogen can be refueled quicklyan infrastructure can be build overnight when every town indepentently sets up electrolyzers powered by wind turbines or pvno need to ship hydrogen around when you produce it locally
>>29128805Charging speeds have gone up over the years but the time spend on overnight charging is irrelevant as you can expect a fully charged vehicle every day.Hydrogen can't even refuel quickly when too many are using it since the compressors can't keep up. Your overnight infrastructure failed to manifest for over a decade. Electrolyzers aren't made out of thin air. Many existing hydrogen projects are indeed reliant on trucks.
>>29128822>visits someone>let me plug my EV into your grid bro
>>29128827Yes.
>>29128829what's thanksgiving gonna look like when the entire clan is plugged it?
>itin*
>>29128805Did you forget this part>>29098181>>29128827I just charged my friends Tesla off my welder plug when he visited, cost 5 dollars to recharge his car which was able to get him 230 miles back home, no hydrogen needed and I already had the plug built to my garage, also got way better mpg and was way cheaper than hydrogen with no need for a hydrogen generator
>>29128860Last time only my cousin plugged in and more because we had solar power to spare and less because he needed it.
>>29129095>than hydrogen with no need for a hydrogen generatorDon't forget the compressor. Many people heat with natural gas but you can't simply refuel at home because CNG cars work with 240bar. Buying and operating such a compressor makes it too expensive to bother.
>>29129095>Did you forget this partan electrolyzer produces hydrogen 24/7 as long as it’s supplied with water and energy whereas a BEV only charges when it’s plugged inthe hydrogen can be stored and refueled on demandthe BEV needs to be be plugged in to the gridwhen multiple vehicles need to recharge the system gets overwhelmed >>29129242compressors are redundant when the hydrogen gets stored in solid state Independent decentralized fueling stations provide fuel locally available on demand minimal footprint on the environment for maximum efficiency (to use your own words)
>>29127586it only goes 30 miles
>>29129388>minimal footprint on the environment for maximum efficiencyThe efficiency of hydrogen electrolysis is shit.And that's only the first process step in a long chain until your wheels actually turn.
>>29129388How are you making your solid state hydrogen yourself?Is it worth splitting the hydrogen market into liquid, solid state and compressed gas?
>>29126355>>29129449>driving 30-60 miles at 200mph on a 740 hp engine with 6kg hydrogen is bad an engine like that can carry tons of fuel it’s equivalent to 550kWyou could build a truck or a plane with it and when stored as powder or paste you won’t even need pressurized bottles there is no logical reason not to use the fuel available in the universe
>>29129908for home production you would need magnesium powder which binds hydrogen by applying heat to create magnesium hydride after releasing the hydrogen the magnesium can be collected and reused indefinitely pressurized gas is more straight forward but it doesn’t store as much fuel
imagine an oven that you will with powder, like washing powder into a washing machine, and out comes a powder that stores hydrogen the electrolyzer can provide heat for the heating process
>>29099559>people love the sound of their enginesmost people would not drive if they didn't have towe are the exception
>>29130041>will with powderfill*
>>29129939power paste or powder seems antithetical to being used in a mechanical contraptionfluids are easy to pump around wherever you need them to bepowder or goop, not so much
>>29130055both powder and paste release gas that powers the engine
>>29130064how do you get the powder or paste from the vessel containing it into the machine that releases the gas from it and how do you keep this mechanism clean and functional?
>>29098162Energy storage density isn't really the issue here. It's the cost of the energy required per mile traveled. And Hydrogen really falls short in that aspect.
>>29130079in the case of powerpaste you can use the mixing vessel to collect the leftover sludge for recycling in the case of a hydride powder you just heat the container to release the hydrogen and then swap used hydride for new one
>>29130093ok now what mechanism do those silly little arrows actually represent? how do you move this goop around inside your machine
>>29130097it’s paste. you can simply squeeze it out
>>29130098squeeze it out of what and how? how does the paste get from your toothpaste tube or whatever the fuck into the hydrogen generator, or how do you even fill your tank in the first place?
>>29130088His solution to inefficiency is to simply generate more power… with wind and solar, the least power dense way to even generate power >if I use electric cars only half my roof needs to be covered in expensive solar panels >if I generate hydrogen my entire roof plus a a detached solar field in my yard is required to get half the mileage the electric car would give It’s all just a giant cope
>>29098163Interesting how with all those metrics they included, they happened to omit cost per energy unit.>using this as a fuel source allows us to put a lot of energy in a small space!Doesn't really matter if using that type of energy triples the cost of running the machine/vehicle.
>>29098335Because spending money to install 2 completely different infrastructures for the same purpose is completely retarded.
>>29103624Not really the same. On a bicycle if your wheel gets caught in a rut you can hop to lift the wheel up and out. You can't do that with a car.
>>29130093How much water does it use?
>>29130093>you can use the mixing vessel to collect the leftover sludge for recyclingNobody wants to fucking do that. People are OK with electric because all they have to do is plug it in. People are OK with gas/diesel because all they have to do stick a hose in a tank and fill it. Nobody wants to deal with emptying a fucking powerpaste sludge tank or swapping out a spent hydride powder tank for a new one every time they have to refuel the vehicle. There is zero chance of either of these fueling methods being adopted by the general public.
People on /o/ may run 20 year old shitboxes but they don't qualify as vintage.
>>29130142 The roadster pays homage to the 1886 Benz Patent-MotorwagenIt’s not for sale
>>29130151meant for>>29130140>>29130142about 1:1 to weight of paste irrelevant when it comes to powder that gets heated
>>29130146emptying out the sludge and refilling the paste can be done like refilling your gasoline tank, with the exception that one opening sucks out the sludge while another fills in paste
>>29130101there are various methods and all are easily implemented
>>29130895please describe some of them if you wouldn't mindthe more detail the better
>>29130917a foot pedal that is connected to large horse cock dildo which sticks inside a bent over replica of (((you))) and whenever the dildo gets pressed down the dildo slides deeper up your ass squeezing more paste into your belly where it gets mixed with water and produces hydrogen
>>29130939average hydrogen fuel enjoyer
>>29130976i was reading your mind
>>29131223
>>29130886How much paste and water would you need to store 1kg of hydrogen?
>>29131278you can look that stuff up10kg paste stores 1kg hydrogen 10 liters of water to release itpowdered hydrides don't need that extra water
>>29131245
>>29131345so to have a respectable range you need space for 30+kg of power paste, 30+L of water, a reactor to reclaim the hydrogen, and an engine to burn itcompared to a 40-60L gas tank and an engine
>>29131469one fuel has to be refined out of oil the other is made out of waterone fuel adds to carbon emissions the other turns to water and can be recyled indefintelyplus you don't need to use a combustion engine you can use a fuel cell, which is more efficient
>>29131469>so to have a respectable range you need space for 30+kg of power paste, 30+L of water1kg of hydrogen gives you around 100km of range with a fuel cell. You need three times as much to provide a clear edge over BEVs. Current FCEV like the Nexo or Mirai store 6kg in compressed form.>and an engine to burn Burning it would be even less efficient.
>>29098105this thing carried a person (drivers changed) at 45 km/h over 2,400 km on ~1kg compressed hydrogen gas
>>29131726>1kg of hydrogen gives you around 100km of range with a fuel cell.That's why I said 30kg and not 10. I don't know how much space a fuel cell takes up compared to an engine, but my point on the packaging still stands.Not to mention that handling this paste will almost certainly create an ungodly mess.Just go with a full EV or a gasoline hybrid
>>2913193530kg would only contain 3kg of hydrogen. 300km is not a respectable range by any standard. Most modern BEV do more than that.
>>29131944I'm agreeing with you. 30, 40, 50+kg of paste, it doesn't matter. It's a retarded idea.
>>29131944>>29132005batteries need time to charge they degrade after the first cycle you need high voltage cablesyou need materials such as cobalt and lithium when multiple cars need to charge the system gets overwhelmed small dents will cause them to short out and cause a fire recycling is not worth considering battery fires are a common occurrence
>>29132097>you need materials such as cobalt and lithiumYou don't need cobalt for LFP batteries. You don't need lithium (or cobalt) for sodium ion batteries.>when multiple cars need to charge the system gets overwhelmed As opposed to pumping hundreds of kg of magnesium sludge?BEV burn a lot less than gasoline cars. For FCEV there's simply no data because nobody drives them but adding hydrogen and magnesium doesn't really bold well. FCEV still use batteries as well.And there's still no real benefit this shit offers over compressed hydrogen gas. At least that actually exist and has cars and infrastructure as barebones as it is.
>>29132353>2005why hasn’t this technology been made widely available to the public
>>29132838Because it's not an actual benchmark like WLTP and it's closer to a velomobile than a car. You can buy fuel cell electric vehicles.
>>29132839where can i buy a vehicle that goes 25km on 1g of hydrogen?
>>29132974You can buy a velomobile that goes 25km on 0g of hydrogen.
>>29133144obviously i’m more interested in a vehicle with an engine that spends 1g/25km and would go 100km on 4g of hydrogen
>>29133169They don't have an engine and don't even fit a person.
>>29133186it’s powered by a fuel cell and one person operates it
>>29133188Only a tiny woman and she can't even get in and out by herself.
>>29133223I can't believe a research test car can't even haul a few 4x8 sheets of plywood. Women truly are subhuman!
>>29133223make into a scooter
>>29132097You still haven't explained how the paste will get pumped around.It's easy to say>just fill your car with hydrogenated goopIt's a lot harder to figure out what that actually entails.
>>29132353>>29132838Here's your new daily bro
>>29129939power paste is nonsense. Nobody is going to scoop gunk out of their gas tank
>>29133477>implying you wouldn't scoop gunk out of any tank for her
it could be a submersible too
Batteryfags don’t seem to understand what happens when multiple cars want to recharge, whereas with hydrogen you have continuous fuel production that can be stored and refueled quickly.
>>29135804Post your hydrogen refueling station, I can post my electric car refueling station, and it’s 3 times more efficient than any hydrogen refueling station would be
>>29135804Many charging stations are capable of serving multiple cars at once and it doesn't seem to be a significant problem. Hydrogen stations don't even produce their own fuel and the compression takes time.
how they immediately jump out of the woodworks lol>it doesn't seem to be a significant problem.it is. it creates peak demand for the grid and will overwhelm most grids. batteryfags not knowing this is not surprising
>>29135867But generating hydrogen takes 3 times more power for the same mileage driven so it will be putting 3 times the load on the grid than electric cars will
>>29135868you have a continuous calculated load that produces fuel non stop. zero problems with overloading the grid
>>29135877So I’m supposed to drive 3x less miles? I don’t understand where this power is supposed to come from for such an inefficient process, you can’t just make energy out of thin air, for every kWh of hydrogen you generate I can go much further in an electric car >>29098139
>>29135867>and and will overwhelm most grids.Can you cite some examples? Unlike hydrogen cars, battery electric cars are extremely common.
>>29135877Why not get a stationary battery to back charging stations up? Even battery swapping has more users than hydrogen.
