How the fuck does this still happen in this day and age?
>>2083922They were in Spain, but they forgot the 's'...
>>2083922The automatic signalling system failed and the human operators screwed up.
what I read on the local news: all trains had been stopped on a line due to whatever problem. Problem was solved and then the order to start up again was given. One train had trouble starting up again and gave notice that they were stopped. Somehow the network controller missed it and didn't realize that the train behind this one was still going. Boom. To sum it up, retarded shenanigans. Spain is going downhill fast.
>>2083922Complex systems will not survive the competency crisis.
>>2083926>>To sum it up, retarded shenanigans. Spain is going downhill fast.Spain has been kind of ass at trains since forever to begin with, but the current situation certainly isn't helping.
>>2083926If two trains can crash due to one person missing something the entire system is rotten.
>>2083922After reading >>2083926, it's clearly a case of >Spain.This ought not happen in any civilized first world country.Critical systems like this must fail towards the safe side by default.
>>2083934>>2083936I absolutely agree. Again, from what I've heard: there was some type of emergency and all traffic was stopped on one track (at least 5 trains spread apart, I heard). When this type of emergency happens, bringing all the trains back on is a manual process, (no idea why this was designed like this, though it kinda makes sense, but maybe it shouldn't be fully manual). Apparently on this manual process, the controller just said "Everybody GO!" without checking anything, and he didn't get the warning that one train couldn't start again. So to sum it up, yes:>Spain
>be Spain>invest gorillions in HSR because tiny pp>do it all on EU credit because poor (can't pay denbts) >build up largest HSR network after Chyna>don't invest properly in maintenance, signalling and/or safety>third accident with fatalities already on an HSR network started in 1992Meanwhile Japan has had HSR since 1964, runs extremely high frequencies and not a single fatality ever.Spain is such a pathetic country.
>Otta my way IRYO fucking shits>68 dead
>>2083940HSR was a mistake. They should have settled for regauging their existing network (and straightened the worst offenders) with a strong freight focus, hoping to move container juggling from Rotterdam to Cadiz or something.
>>2083922Israeli terrorists.
>>2083922Second time this year. 100+ rail deaths in Spain in 2026.
>>2083948one can only hope
>>2083937>no idea why this was designed like this, though it kinda makes sense,i think the idea is to be absolutely sure everyone is in agreement that the all clear is true, exactly because of the possibility of>that one train couldn't start again.
https://www.nacionale.com/en/articles/spain-train-crash-how-can-two-high-speed-trains-collide-signalling-explainedSo they use LZB, a German train protection/signalling system. This means electrical track detection (or axle counters) with movement authority being granted through a lineside cable loop. That way, you can grant clear way ahead for 10,000 meters and have the interlocking decide the permissible speed to safely follow the proceding train.The only signals which will show danger/clear ahead with lights are at crossover loops and stations.>German signalling systems have a "drive by sight" signal that consists of 3 white lights forming a triangle with one light at the top. This signal, labelled "Zs 101", is placed with a fixed line side signal and, when lighted, permits the driver to pass a fixed red or defective signal and drive by sight to the end of the interlocking no faster than 40 km/h (25 mph).>When approaching such a signal in LZB territory the "E/40" light will be lit until 250 m (820 ft) before the signal, then the "E/40" will go dark and "V40" will flash. The "V40" signal indicates the ability to drive by sight.>>Transmission failure>If data exchange is interrupted, the trains distance measurement system fails, or the train fails to detect 4 or more cable transposition points the LZB system will go into a failure state. It will light the "Stör" indicator and then flash "Ü". The driver must acknowledge the indications within 10 seconds. The driver must slow the train to no more than 85 km/h (53 mph) or lower; the exact speed depends on the backup signalling system in place.As far I can see, there's incidents where the LZB onboard was shut off and the train could drive. Otherwise there's the possibilty that the could go 85 km/h. Based on the damages, it looks more like 200 km/h.
there was a similar accident in my cuntry in 2023, i remember people were freaking out because i had travelled on that train couple of days beforenowadays people stopped using rail altogether, there used to be trains running every other hour, now there is just one train in the morning and one in the afternoonsome chud mother who lost her child in the crush attempted to create a political party out of it, she polls around 5% now
>>2083953>At about 08:36, Adif’s control centre at Atocha authorised all of them to move again, which Puente said broke the rules: after such a failure, trains may only run on sight, at no more than 40 km/h. The AVE then travelled 25 kilometres, reaching 200 km/h, before hitting the stopped Iryo at about 08:53 (El Español). Puente called the collision “implausible” and said he had not blamed anyone, only set out the established facts (OKDiario).If the operator had properly figured out the positions of the trains stuck, they should each have gone one by one to at 40 km/h into the next line segment before the next train is allowed to move. Instead, all the trains were permitted to move at once and one driver decides to turn off LZB and WE GAAN.>>2083954Time and time again it shows that manual routines are dangerous. Without train detection it needs to be several barriers to human error. That includes handing orders to each train, with the driver and conductor acknowledging. Just one guy at the night shift being responsible for giving green light into an un-signalled section is crazy.
>>2083955i believe the reason for it being manual, is because government jobs are created, which can then be used to reward party members and family membersi get why they do it, its to win elections, but they are destroyed the entire rail system forever
>>2083934Wait until you find out how ATC works!
>>2083956I've been to Greece and Spain. Neither of them are first-world countries and neither of them have the sort of cultural mindset suitable for the sort of safety culture required for operation of things like HSR.If you want fancy baubles then you should let a third-party run it for you as you're clearly incapable, someone with an understanding of rail safety like the Germs, Frogs, Bongs or even the Chinks.
>>2083964> Germs, Frogs, Bongsis this a joke?nigga, even the germs themselves dont like their rail, bongs have a weird private system built for the rich and in the frog trains you vill be stabbed by brown people
>>2083965>a weird private system built for the richwhich is now infested with bedbugs, hilarious. It's so bad they're cancelling scheduled trains
>>2083922I like trains
>>2083953>LZBSo they have cheapened out on line-side train detection (many LZB lines have that), but failed to account for that in the regulations?
>>2083970The future is going to be ETCS-only anyway, with on sight as fallback. Gonna be fun.
could all be done by phones now, its ridiculous to hear this talk about systems invented in 1920 still in use for trains
>>2083965while true that germany and UK have second class rail systems compared to proper countries like japan, they do have FAR less fatalities than spain, even the fucking united states has less train fatalities yearly than spain.
>>2083976>even the fucking united states has less train fatalities yearly than spain.That's an easy achievement when you don't have any trains for people to actually die on.
>>2083965At least their rail systems don't turn several dozen people into mince meat and bloody smears in the blink of an eye because Miguel the dispatch controller was tired after missing his siesta.
>>2083974ETCS L3 (without train detection) in case of a system failure restarts from the assumption that all track is occupied and it must be manually checked and flagged unoccupied.That's slow, but the only reasonable way to go about it. You can't simply assume that all trains will report in and that their reports will be accounted for.If it still needed proof of that, here you have it.
you can listen to both machinists talking to Central Control in this video (in spanish, use youtube's auto translate): >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVHOsYBm6nM
>>2083922Simply because they're not using the Superior Japanse HSR.
>>2083966a couple of trains being cancelled for fumigation is a drop in the bucket when it comes to uk train cancellations
>>2083940>Meanwhile Japan has had HSR since 1964, runs extremely high frequencies and not a single fatality ever.except for the crew that killed a guy at mishimaand the 0-2 tph frequencies outside of the tokaido-sanyo and tohoku south of sendai
>>2083922death to israel
>>2083953I get so fucking nervous when I read shit like this since LZB devices are in my hands every now and thenHowever these things are interlocked and it's not like they don't have to actively move past itThere was a case where some dude simply kept driving at the low speed and one passenger sadly died due to neck injury
>>2083922That's why...
>>2084056>ConvelBtw, that's just a local name for this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBICAB#EBICab_700/900
uhhhhhhhhh bros
I tooki the train in Spain. We crashed on a plain and now i'm i pain.
>>2084063>da jooz
>>2083922>this day and ageEver look at stuff like railroad ties, road curbs, power lines? We're still cavemen. Of course we can still accidentally smash things head-on at full speed.
The trains in Spain mainly cause pain...
>>2084069pissraelis dont get to use jewishness as a shield for their endless terrorism for their genocidal child rapist state
>>2084063I wouldn't be the least surprised
>>2084063>>2084083Add to that that the safety of Spanish trains is in the hands of israeli firms.
>>2084056>>2084058That's just bullshit you fucking meat proxy. There's nothing stopping you from running without ATC, or overriding the system when you pass a signal at danger (I think you can proceed at 40 km/h). ATC is only one way communication with balises, whil LZB is two-way between train and interlocking. ATC was designed in the 70's/early 80's too. Anyway, the train protection system has nothing to do with the actual train detection, be it axle counters, track circuit or some bastard hybrid with a EoT device. If the dispatcher could not see any of the trains on that line, but knew there were several, serivice at full speed should never have been resumed (as we all heard).
>>2084063>>2084080>>2084084Many of the victims were Sephardic by the way
>>2084095Say the line bart
>>2084085>Clueless fuckwitYou'll get nothing more from me.Kys, clown.>>2084095LolLmao, even
