Thread for discussing F90, F91, Crossbone, Victory & Friends.Last thread >>24036283
Btw, if anybody reads Double Fake -- how is it? Is story moving forward steadily? Original was just one volume, it's only so much padding you can add with such initial script.
>>24058014what even is this fucking thing? it looks like a variation of a Vigna-type robot. I've never seen it before.
Have the Gaia Gear novels been translated? I saw Zeonic translated like the chapter synopsis, but can't find the full thing. I hate navigating that damn site
>>24058037It's expanding on it but mostly just by fixing the pacing and making the panel work actually coherent since the original work really struggled with that
>>24058045Whole thing linked right herehttps://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=3408I will agree the search engine and site organzation is a mess, but it's easy enough to find stuff via google
>>24058044XM-07G type F.T.E. Vigna Zirah Flamme Tiger EinzelkampfRolls right off the tongue.Thought that it is appropriate considering that Cluster is going into the time frame when it should appear.>>24058045Yes, and same, I hate that website too.https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=3408
>>24058061Yes, I read the original recently and it was quite messy.
>>24058044>>24058065in fairness FTE works just fine and there's plenty of mission pack configs that also get way too wordy. Even if this is based on a different naming convention.Given how they love referencing old mook designs like G-Cannon Magna Super Destroid I wouldn't be surprised if FTE shows up in a while.We're gonna get a clash between Cluster and a Gundam-faced Zirah as well at some point, and that sure as fuck wasn't in the old manga.
>>24058077What's the big booster shield for? It can already fly just fine with all those shelf nozzles
>>24058077FTE seems silly to me because it is an unusually long and confusing moniker to just say Shelf Sheffield Custom with Flamme Tiger just being his nickname.It's like if Johnny Ridden's shit was called Crimson Lightning Blitzkampf or something.
>>24058118like many things going on in that time period, it's a clone of enemy tech, in this case it's the same idea as the F90 type Intercept. instead of needing to transform it just rides a big rocket sled to chase down enemies at high speed
>>24058118>why have more thrusters and a shield?>>24058129we are talking about the most pompous and self-aggrandizing faction in UC here, the "nobility" has to stand out in every way possibleWhy call it something plain and simple when you can call it the Flame Tiger's Single Combat custom?
>>24058118It shouldn't have shelf nozzles, but also shield booster is obviously faster and likely can be used for atmospheric entry.
pasting the writeup on the last MMMRXF91 SILHOUETTE GUNDAMHeavygun>Its movable frame was adapted for Silhouette instead of something like G-Cannon>It's a sign of AE's confidence in its robustness and ease of maintenanceNeo Gundam>Also known as "AFX Gundam" it's said the military considered adopting it as of UC 0122 as part of ATMS competition>Completed using RXFF91's data, its performance can surpass F91's>Zanscare is taking over Side 2>people think it will bring about the end of the chaotic Warring Space States era>but the author raises concerns about the youth conscriptionSILHOUETTE GUNDAM>RXF91 rolled out of Granada in August UC 0122>AE's last ditch attempt at catching up with SNRI and Buch>culmination of the Silhouette Formula Project>ATMS program itself ended with the victory for the F9 series>but where SNRI interpreted this as "F9 series are provisionally selected for next-generation mainstay suits">AE argued that since F90 could not be adopted in its current form no MS truly won>therefore they were aiming to oust the followup F91 and replace it with their own model>if Ronah Hauzerie, Formula's driving force, not died in UC 0118 such tricks would have never worked>however since RGM-X project was already provisionally assigned to AE's Jamesgun they were it can be said Anaheim was making a comeback>even if it relied on backroom deals, forceful expert poaching and political pressure>in the end Anaheim's efforts culminated with the RX-99 or AFX-9000 Neo Gundam>Anaheim took a very methodical approach>after the Hardygun as equivalent to F70, RXF91 would be a parallel to F91 and a stepping stone towards Neo>RXF91 is an experimental machine designed to achieve parity with F series, not for combat use>therefore it uses Heavygun's frame>the design is one generation older than F9 series, but it has proven qualities and reliability>therefore it was fine for a testbed machine
>>24058164>however, this also meant it did not meet ATMS standards>it's estimated it could sustain maximum operating performance for only 60 seconds>however, for an experimental unit this is perfectly reasonable>the control computer uses a Holocube-type Neurocomputer>however it does not feature an unstable pseudo-personality AI and instead has a conventional Learning Computer>despite that the processing speed surpasses F90's 8000 series>this is credited to the prodigy "shoe fitter", Iris Orlando>no biocomputer or psycommu was incorporated as it was just a test suit for data collection>as with the F equivalent, the primary weapon are a pair of VSBRs on the back>as previous articles mention, the development of the weapon type itself was simple, scaling it down for MS use was challenging>it can be said the entire purpose of some other Silhoutte Formula units was developing practical use VSBR weapons>RXF91's VSBRs do not use high spec capacitors like F91 due to failure to reverse engineer them, therefore they can't be detached>but power output was higher than F91's and it was rated as easily capable of piercing through MA-class I-Fields>furthermore, capacitor's space was filled with a coaxial mega particle cannon, ensuring sheer firepower eclipsed F91>there are theories suggesting these cannons are to compensate for VSRBs lacking in capability>but AE internal documents insist they are improved and have no such issues>further research is required to clarify these matters>as for the beam shield, it has not been miniaturized to the same extent as SNRI and Buch models and is somewhat cumbersome>however it has a higher power output, can cover a larger area and double as a beam saber>unlike F91, AE intended to use hardpoints akin to F80 as both arms feature latches of the same type>during the Zebra Zone incident the left arm hardpoint equipped a beam shield and the right one a beam spray gun, but other options were also tested
>>24058164>>24058166>other weapons include two head vulcans, two arm heavy machine guns and two chest mega machine cannons>intended for soft targets and intercepting missiles and bits>the thruster layout draws cues not only from the F91 but also F90 series and the Javelin>unlike F91 which requires heat dissipation equipment for the biocomputer this design focuses on rapid maneuvers using apogee thrusters>RXF91's high mobility thrusters and AMBAC are excellent>by manually configuring the control system it can demonstrate maneuverability on par or surpassing the Formula series>although the armor uses Gundarium alloy-ceramic composite with a micro-honeycomb structure and no MCA structure to reduce weight it still achieves Formula-level mobility>the high performance is proof of the skill of Anaheim's engineers>the development of this unit and data gathered from its testing were incorporated into Anaheims' later models>bringing about technological innovation on par, if not surpassing, SNRI>in future issues I intend to discuss the culmination of the Silhouette Formula Project>namely, machines from RX-100 onwardEDITOR NOTE>shortly after this monthly issue, Ms. Historica Chronica was assigned to the Imperial Re-education Camp>as such future issues will be amended and the RX-100 article will not be published>our editorial team has been unable to contact Ms. Historica>we apologize for having published the article in its current formJuly 24, UC 0150 Historica Chronica
>>24058167awooga
>>24058164>>24058166>>24058167Oh dear, it appears zanscare is now preparing for it’s conquest against earth and now even the team publishing this is being subjected to their draconian rules, seems like we won’t be finding out what exactly the RX-100 is for a while and from here on out it’s gonna be pure propaganda. If there is any material left to cover I’m looking forward to the post F91 stuff
>>24058191it's been skewed towards propaganda and the party line since literally the first volume, it just changed a bit and escalated when Zanscare was established which itself was like 20 volumes ago at this pointMMM will carry on and continue just as always, especially when we sometimes get earlier entries. There's still much more material to cover and Cluster itself is probably only at a halfway point.
>>24058014Reminder that MS armor has really gone down the drain to the point a OYW era Zaku machinegun would hurt more if directly hit.
>>24059099wrong
>>24059099No that huge mega particle cannon was most certainly made out of the same material as their mobile suits, that it smashed right through the victory type at a high speed it’s accurate
>>24059099>tfw ultimately miniaturized ms were unsustainable
>>24059118>The demand for “low-cost conflict-use mobile suits” existed distinctly from that of “ultra-high-performance small-sized mobile suits” and it will continue to exist in the future.>The RGM-86RN, much like the Oldsmobile’s 18-meter class mobile suits, was not capable of adequately fighting against the smaller second-stage model mobile suits and fourth-generation heavy mobile suits.qrd
>>24059099It's good know the battlefields of the future will not be filled with shrapnel or debris, and that our beam shields can tank everything.
>>24059118The problem with mobile suits going into Late UCs was that the new models became giant (Gustav Karl was 22 meters tall), making their logistics too expensive. You needed to make a new fleet and hangars just to house the same number of mobile suits.They eventually ended it because making mobile suits that are too small was deemed too hard, especially as they became more and more complex.That said, RGM-196 Freedom is still slightly smaller than OYW GM.Basically, it's about finding the right balance.
>>24059099>>24059126anon if you slapped the Gundam with a cannon bigger than the suit so hard the gun snapped then it would also fucking die
>>24059118And the successor to Javelin will be 16-18 meter too.
>>24059128>They eventually ended it because making mobile suits that are too small was deemed too hard, especially as they became more and more complex.there's nothing inherently wrong with miniaturized suits, no more than there is with IRL miniaturized electronics and such. They are just straight up better across the board, it's just that if the infrastructure cannot continue supporting them it's only sensible people are going back to older, worse models because the baseline foundation level is lower
>>24059129>anon if you slapped the Gundam with a cannon bigger than the suit>bigger than the suitThe bigger the suit, the bigger the blunt object needed.
>>24059132>there's nothing inherently wrong with miniaturized suits, no more than there is with IRL miniaturized electronics and suchThee is. IRL, the plastic models were problematic to get right and the miniaturization happened because they wanted to decrease the amount of plastic needed for each gunpla. Bandai's gunpla machinery couldn't handle the smaller mobile suits. This lead to issues with fragility and plastic cracking on early releases. It took several years of retooling to get the process right and upgrade the machinery. While Bandai has mastered engineering at the standard 1/144 and 1/100 scales, shrinking complex mobile suits presents severe manufacturing and material science hurdles. Miniaturizing isn't easy to achieve and at some points you need bigger.
>>24059137One day anon. One day we'll finally succeed with miniaturized grenade launchers. We've consistently failed to do 20mm right for decades but one day we will finally succeed. Even if it takes us another century. We will miniaturize them further.
Physics is wrong. Moore's law is eternal. We will shrink beyond subatomic levels.
>>24059131Is G-Savior canon? Because they did there.
>>24059118That article is weird because the manga keeps on having characters say>dude this rf zaku's generator is more than a heavygun>it's so much faster and we can't beat this custom gm iii in our heavyguns>damn my heavygun has a hard time beating this enemyMaybe it's inexperienced pilots against planned and experienced enemies but their reactions aren't>dude they're slower than us but they pilot betterat all. But this is Gundam where they keep on saying >doven wolf beat zaku iii in the contestwhile nearly every onscreen zaku iii vs doven wolf fight has the latter win.
>>24059149It's a bit funny to me how retroactively the RF series has been made way better. Sure, they were beating Jegans and beat hard by miniaturized mechs but before most descriptions were like>CCA Zeon remnants head over to Mars with Geara Dogas where the internals of RF mechs are based on Geara Dogas but better.>RF Zakus could even out-perform the Geara Doga in some areas.to>the weakest of RF mechs ROFLstomp Jegans in your pic>Advance of Zeta had all these wars involved so Mars has been real busy with samples of Doven Wolfs and Gelgoog IIIs and other better machines so here's an RF Kampfer with Quasipsychommu to pull off attacks like the Doven WolfDue to years of relative peace, many newer pilots were less experienced so this might've been chalked up to lesser pilots but now it's clear the RFs are just written stronger. They're not just Geara Dogas + 1.
>>24059152>>RF Zakus could even out-perform the Geara Doga in some areas.They better.
>>24059149Jegans are the butt of every joke in that manga just like in F91. Every scene they're compared negatively or getting their asses kicked. Even the GM III from >>24059118 which allegedly has Jegan Normal type parts fights Heavyguns meaning a GM III with a Jegan's parts has better showings than the Jegan.
>>24059156anon there's an entire article dedicated solely and entirely to fellating the Jegan in a way no other mobile suit has been before or since
>>24059131>>24059152Wait so>https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11117>In terms of simple catalog specifications, this unit’s performance surpasses even the RF-series of the Mars Independent Zeon Forces. Of course, the AMS-119 and RF-series have the advantage in cost and production efficiency, and they can’t be directly compared (it’s like comparing a family car to a sports car).So Zaku IIIs (and comparable) are better than the typical RF (probably better than Geara Doga/Zulus) but they're more expensive, so some lucky duck with one is well suited to using it for decades against Jegan (Normal, Type B, etc) so long as they don't run into any ace machines?
>>24059164no, basically for the same reasons you won't see a 30 year old Formula 1 car outspeeding everyone on the highway right now
>>24059156Even pic bullies them.>Early appraisals were not glowing>armor inferior to Marasai and Barzam >Under Amuro's leadership they fought outnumbered toilet paper armor >>24059153s and it was grueling>Doubters were "silenced" not because their enemies were >>24059153 but because you can trust us it's Jegans being good>Article begging to read between the lines with CCA context>Early-mid parts about how good they were for shooting civiliansAt least be generous enough to show upgraded Jegans.
>>24059169damn so you're just illiterate huh
>>24059169Hold on a moment, what were Neo-Zeon's "heavy" mobile suits? Geara Dogas are heavy? Or were they talking about Quess's mobile armor or the Jagd Dogas? Did Moon Gundam exist when that article was published so Zaku IVs were known? The Geara Doga was in-line for its time but it wasn't some god-tier grunt machine the same way basic Zons in F91 were well above any grunt mech the Feds had or how Seed Destiny's Murasame BTFO the Chaos Gundam. Btw, it's a joke how official descriptions love to say how much the Doga and Zulus share parts or how Zulus share Doga interior frames. If you superimpose the line art, you can see the Doga and Zulu could never share the same skeletal frame or even parts of it. MAYBE there's similar components but the frame shape going from a Doga to a Zulu therefore requires major re-engineering work, flying directly in the face of the claims made to justify the design of the Zulu. It's easier to overlap a Zulu with a GM or some Gundams than a Doga.
>>24059178see >But this is Gundam where they keep on saying>>doven wolf beat zaku iii in the contest>while nearly every onscreen zaku iii vs doven wolf fight has the latter win.on screen performance and technical descriptors are always completely different things. Remember seed's windam took over a decade to score its first kill.
>>24059178>>24059185can you insufferable autists go away already? or stop shitting up the thread by somehow missing the point of every single source material AND each other's replies
>>24059178Just assume Geara Dogas are ultra-customizable and there were many of them highly pimped out and not >>24059153
Ignore the lower case troll who believes he understands the posts better than posters AND there is no deeper context to be read in these articles where in-universe writers got executed for not saying enough propaganda.
>>24059191Oh the fucking irony of this
>>24059178Official descriptions contradict all the time. Take Jeddah vs Jegan. One says"An improved variant was later formally adopted as the RGM-90, and around 40 units were produced" RGM-90 being the Jegan heavy Equipment from CCA MSV.High streamer says: "While inferior to the Jegan, the Jeddah was put into production alongside the Jegan to replace the aging GM series until the Federation produced enough Jegan"MOON says: "Jeddah was refined into the more cost-efficient Jegan" that was affected by Earth Federation budget cuts and disarmament policies, only a limited number were produced before being simplified and made weaker.So it's a mixed bag. But can cost more and still be worse than cheaper alternatives. Worse but costed more.
>>24059196>High streamerI WANT THIS
God this thread is a mess.
>>24059202Happens every once in a while, there's a certain subset of anons that come by threads like this and just ruin it for a couple hours straight if not more.
>>24059099>Zaku machinegun would hurt more if directly hit.Just maybe but uncertain. The Zaku's gun fires 120mm rounds. Not sure if they were ever specified, but the machine guns built into the shot lancer handle are very tiny, each shot lancer has two to four of these machine guns and it's already a smaller MS and handheld weapon than the Zaku and its machine gun. They're like compact like head vulcan guns so maybe shooting 30mm to 60mm rounds. The G-Cannon is a support fire MS made for the miniature MS era and the base model carries gatling cannons that fire 130mm rounds which is similar to the Zaku machine gun, except it's got two of them and could probably fire at a higher rate. We don't know how propellant or projectile besides the size changed so the shot lancer guns or 130mm from the G-Cannon might be far superior in ways we aren't told.
I am so angry that I have learned to write in uppercase letters. I don't like any discussion and I will reply to myself expressing my discontent and insisting everyone except me is illiterate.
>>24059214Me too
>>24059213ME ANGRY YOU TALKING ABOUT GUNDAM ME ANGRY ENOUGH TO ALL CAPE INSTEAD OF ALL LOWER CASE
>>24059213They used >>24059153 bullets
>>24059213To be fair that hit the cockpit a lot.
I forgot if Shot Lancers were railguns or not.
okay maybe let's try to unfuck the thread instead of engaging the troll (trolls?)Ya think we're gonna see these Hardygun variants referenced? They love taking things from old model magazines and these are technically related to F91MSV just like that ventless-faced F91 from last thread>>24059221essentially yes. Not sure if they're specifically called railguns by name but they do electromagnetically fire mass projectiles so like...
>>24059099>>24059213This is actually canon. It's mentioned many times that the shrinking of MS lead to physival rounds being lethal again. It's why the F91 and Crossbone have chest mounted machine cannons. It does beg questions if flak, shrapnel, or scattershot guns should be more common in late UC.
>>24059225Should be more common altogether. Make some more beam spread gun given beams were deadly one shot kills or disabling limbs.
>>24059225Does this mean pic would be very deadly?
>>24059227Different timelines hard to judge
>>24059225>It does beg questions if flak, shrapnel, or scattershot guns should be more common in late UC.>>24050655
>>24059225It feels a tad humiliating watching that. It happens every now and then IRL where designs or tactics overcorrect and put too much attention defending against the newest danger to the point outdated methods become effective but seeing it in action always feels uncomfortable.
G-Saviour
>>24059167because laws prevent them from being road-legal?
>>24059239What does the G stand for here anyway?
>>24059226Psycho Gundam has them
>>24059213well at least you're not spouting fukada-isms
>>24059250Its the 7th of the series.A-Saviour, B-SaviourG was followed up by I-Saviour and then the mass produced J-Saviour. No word on an H model
>>24059235MS development never truly overcomes the humble beam rifle in defensive tools so it's a fairly natural result. Beam shields heavily encourage shedding off the last vestiges of real armour anywhere but the cockpit, you aren't going to beat the plasma wall in practical defensive terms.>>24058166>RXF91's VSBRs do not use high spec capacitors like F91 due to failure to reverse engineer them, therefore they can't be detached>but power output was higher than F91's and it was rated as easily capable of piercing through MA-class I-FieldsSpeaking of it's pretty interesting these are noted as busting MA class I-Fields. The usage of I-Field barriers in Gundam is a truly strange one but it's pretty notable for anything to break them. We basically never even see this happen as a broad thing so being offhandedly mentioned is kinda wild.
>>24059250>You may not find the word “SAVIOUR” in your dictionary, but that doesn’t mean the spelling isn’t correct. The word means exactly what it sounds like, savior, and it’s a pretty special word. In short, it’s a religious term. The American team thought the name G-SAVIOUR was pretty cool. After all, the G stands for GOD in this instance and “Savior of God” would’ve been entirely too strong.>As it would happen, a nun was sitting next to Inoue on a flight in the U.S. and the subject came up. When he was asked what the G stood for, he stated “Gaia, among many other things.” The nun was relieved, saying she was glad it wasn’t God since it carries heavy connotations in Christian culture.https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=8864
>>24059285weird that a measly 220kw of reactor output was all that was preventing seabook from instantly killing iron mask in the rafflesia
>>24059290Yeah I can't say I care for what they were thinking putting that in as a snippet. It feels a bit heavyhanded.This is a total aside and basically just my ramblings, but I'd have liked to see Penelope and Xi using I-Fields in the new movies. I don't think it would practically change much for any of the fights but it'd add more weight to all their physical armaments (funnel missiles especially, obviously) being used if beams were ineffectual. Largely just because in the scope of things in a post-Unicorn world it begins to feel more like an omission from them; even prior in the context of Psyco Gundams and decades of development it felt reasonable. The novel's beam barrier had vague allusions to defensive properties alongside aerial performance but only in one descriptor I believe? It's been a bit since I read it but I seem to recall it coming up in the final novel's fight, but frankly it doesn't matter. All I really have to say is that I feel like they should have I-Fields and I-Fields don't get don't justice in most Gundam. Dendrobium and Neue Ziel duking it out with I-Fields was some of the dopest shit and I want to see more along those lines. Spherical barriers are cool, miss me with that skin-tight shit.
>>24059285That might make it cheaper just to do either big output that's going to either wreck beam shields or have enough force that it stuns whoever blocks and lacks mass to center themselves, or lots of low power blasts in hope something snags a part the shield doesn't cover or hits the beam generator to damage it and potentially shut the shield down.
Soon there will be nothing but beams, not even MS but beams piloted.
>>24059333No no that's for way later. For a different generation, you could say. Maybe not an Advanced one, but one immediately before it...
How did Jupiter run out of helium 3?
>>24059338depends, at which story or time point are you talking about?
>>24059338It didn't?
>>24059338where were u when helium run out?i was at side 2 hometetenith call, she say "helium gone""no"I will make earth into babies
>>24059285the I-Field busting is nothing new, it's always been a thing it can do. All VSBRs can do it since beam shields naturally have i-fields, they can't pierce through them otherwise.>>24059290Mind, even here it's still kept vague whether Silhouette's VSBR REALLY can achieve the full range of performance like F91. And it's not like they ever state by name it could pierce Rafflesia's I-Field in particular. Naturally it's the first thing you'd think of but Rafflesia itself is also a cutting edge model and its defensive measures might be on another level than the conventional "MA class I-Field" of the era.And even if it can, in fact theoretically shoot down Raffy just like that (assuming it doesn't get cut/shot to pieces and lands the shot in the right place before the frame falls apart from overstraining) it wouldn't be that surprising. This isn't just a bootleg F91, it's - within the scope of a test unit - an equal with potential for more in some ways.Keep in mind they made the G-BRD immediately afterwards based on Silhouette's VSBR data and that thing packs a wallop and a half lmao. Regardless, we're probably gonna get a MMM on Neo within a couple months if not just with the next one so we'll probably get some more info there.And GOD I hope the RX-100 doesn't end up as just another tease with no followup for decades...
>>24059338are you that /x/ nutjob again
>>24059137>miniaturization happened because they wanted to decrease the amount of plastic needed for each gunplaNah this is bullshit lemmings keep spreading around with never a single source to back it up. The actual reason was because Tomino wanted to make it easier to frame the mobile suits on the screen, and Bandai compromised by just upping the scale notation up a notch:>For some time, the director had found it vexing to stage scenes that combined human beings with 18-meter giant humanoid weapons. Because the size of the mobile suits was too large, it was difficult to compose images in which humans were positioned near the mobile suits.>When mobile suits and humans were sharing the same screen, if you were trying to show the humans' gestures and facial expressions, then the mobile suit's face wouldn't fit within the screen. On the other hand, if the entire mobile suit including its face were onscreen, then the humans would end up being too small. Director Tomino came up with the idea of miniaturizing the mobile suits as a solution to this problem. In fact, on Gundam F91, the director had combined humans and miniaturized mobile suits in the image boards he initially drew.>For the previously discussed staging reasons, Director Tomino wanted to reduce the mobile suits to a size of 8 or 9 meters. The problem was that if the mobile suits were miniaturized that much, it would be impossible to put them next to the Gunpla which had previously been released in a uniform scale, creating confusion for the customer.Like seriously, does anyone who repeat this even know what models were released at the time? The F91 line were all in 1/100 and 1/60, with not a single model in 1/144. How can you say Bandai were trying to save plastic when the 1/100 F91 and 1/144 Nu Gundam are literally the same size?
>>24059451Come on man you're expecting mecha fans to actually think critically about what they've learned to mindless repeat for years? Don't be ridiculous.
>>24059391>All VSBRs can do it since beam shields naturally have i-fields, they can't pierce through them otherwise.Yeah man, everyone knows that. That's pretty distinct from actual I-Field barriers. Beam shields also crumple under battleship fire in F91 and are clearly weaker. Just like beam sabres, they've never been in the same ballpark of power as an actual I-Field barrier.
>>24059462It's fundamentally the exact same technology, the application isn't even all that different. It's just the difference between the I-Field being overpowered by sheer weight and volume of power vs being pierced straight through.
>>24059451>>When mobile suits and humans were sharing the same screen, if you were trying to show the humans' gestures and facial expressions, then the mobile suit's face wouldn't fit within the screen.Who has taught them these lies? That doesn't make any sense for any director. Not only is this Gundam, filled with QUALITY and inexplicable size changes like how Amuro's Nu Gundam can catch Char's Sazabi escape ball pod like a basketball despite the size difference between the suits not being this much, but that's absolutely retarded. How shots are framed, how much is being zoomed, the proportions of the machine, are the director and animators to do. We've had super robot shows with robots bigger than planets and real robot shows with smaller robots than 10m height and they didn't face these issues. In all likely hood, if that is the truth and not 1 + 1= 3 level retarded nonsense, then pic must be an accurate scale of how big the Nu and Sazabi are. It's also telling that just about no Gundam timeline besides UC had this same issue so it's even more likely to be bullshit. Tomino is either pulling a prank or he's high off his mind.
>>24059506Fantastic work just, like, not reading anything, making up like three different absurd assumptions and then insulting everyone besides yourself for them. It's a remarkably common trend on this board nowadays.
>>24059489Fundamentally is doing a lot of heavy lifting when the works all treat them as distinct applications that take on a unique form, hence the specific name "I-Field Barrier." Much like ships also employ I-Fields for minovsky craft, that does not equate to generating an I-Field Barrier. The technology is related, but the applications are distinct and especially the practical forms we are shown are very unique. Most works have avoided the question completely, while almost all extensive views of I-Field Barrier using units have some insane feats starting from their first appearance in tanking massed battleship fire to X-3 managing to take Divinidad out with its own gun. I-Field Barriers breaking is an extraordinary event and I find it a very flippant and careless claim.
>>24059451The models got smaller because of the Japanese economy at the time. In the late 1980s and very early 1990s, the price of ABS plastic (the main material used for Gunpla) roughly doubled because of the collapse of the Japanese economic bubble and rising oil prices. Bandai was extremely nervous about costs for any new Gundam project. They reflected that in their models knowing they would be smaller to save costs they also wrote in world that the far future technology is so advanced it can make more smaller agile mobile suits. Completed models being same? That's so wrong if we go by proportions. Consider right pic Nu's face size vs F91's head size. Why are right about the same? Why Isn't one almost an SD next to the other? Why isn't one a dwarf or like an enlarged gorilla in proportions? Plenty of Gunpla are different in proportions to their linearts or what we see on camera. When Gundam F91 was suddenly changed from a 50-episode TV series into a single 2-hour movie (literally mid-pre-production), the plans were slashed), Bandai told Sunrise and Tomino:“We can only afford a very limited number of new model kits for this project. If you make a bunch of 18–22 m suits with totally different proportions like in the old days, every single mold will be unique and expensive. Keep the mobile suits as close to the same size as possible so we can reuse runners, legs, arms, and torso parts across multiple kits.” Tomino himself has said in interviews that the rising cost of plastic model production was “one of several factors,” but he always stresses that the primary motivation was creative (ending the size escalation and working with Syd Mead). The plastic price spike just made Bandai extremely happy to go along with the miniaturization idea instead of fighting it. Point being, Tomino did like the idea already but even if Tomino wanted a different size then Bandai would've forced him to go smaller anyway.
Ignore the troll who posts lies like >>24059451 and his self replier >>24059456
>>24059520NTA but you didn't answer anything all thread
>>24059535He cannot because he is an AI chatbot with no mental capacity.
>>24059531He doesn't own gunpla. He doesn't understand that.
>>24059451A single anime director doesn't get to make that decision, but he certainly gets to be, and according to sources IS, the one who suggested it. And given that said single anime director is the one who created the franchise and at the time, owned a significant portion of it, he also has significant power in swaying Bandai's decision making regardless. Bandai did it, but they did it as a compromise with Tomino who wanted to go even smaller and they wouldn't have even done it at all if not for him because no-one would have thought of it apparently. He might be Tomino but there are executives and corporate heads.
Don't reply to him. He is the same liar in >24059193 who doesn't know >>24059225
He thinks the "molds" are the most expensive part of running a factory business.You gotta pay for machinery.You gotta pay for maintenance of machinery.You gotta pay for factory workers.You gotta pay technicians. You gotta pay for engineers to design the models and parts.You gotta pay taxes to the government.You gotta pay for the land if you are leasing it.You gotta pay for the building and it's upkeep.You gotta pay for retooling the machines - (especially if there are issues like what happened with F91 and Victory).You gotta pay for marketing and packaging.You gotta work out logistics, shipping, and coordination with suppliers and vendors.The factory literally lives or dies by contracts and sales. One bad year and your done.There many other things but I won't list all of it.Luckily Bandai has deep pockets but it still isn't cheap.
Games Workshop and Bandai are both slaves to writers and directors.
>>24059506To be fair,newtype magic means maybe the sazabi can shapeshift
the nigga finally did it, I told him to troll the late UC and AoZ threads for a real challenge and goddamn did he deliveryou've come a long way since I first whooped your ass in the thread where you weakly claimed the zaku's bazooka was a recoilless gun
>>24059540It was much closer to >Economic bubble burst>plastic got expensive >Bandai put extreme pressure on Sunrise to minimize new molds >Sunrise/Tomino were already planning smaller suits for artistic reasons>the cost pressure perfectly aligned with that vision >everyone agreed on ~15–16 m as the new standard for the movie.Other post thinks the making process is way less complicated than it actually is. Also he doesn't get models are often different in detail by necessity so showing tat pic is meaningless.
Schizoid can't accept being wrong. He lies about Tomino because economics don't exist.
>>24059554>>everyone agreed on ~15–16 m as the new standard for the movie.This especially. The issue isn't just 15-16m, it's the range being much closer than the proportions needed for 18-22. A shrunken tiger doesn't look like a housecat and also tons of F91 era designs are at least physical proportion wise less all over the place than say the Barzam being so leggy. There were IRL logistics to why F91 models are the way they are. He can't just disregard them, In the event Tomino disagrees, the model makers would just make things different.
>>24059561He never watched Zeta.
>>24059562Please tell me he watched Zeta.
Settle down kids, we can all agree Tomino has full control over designs. That is why anyone who tells you Tomino consistently created Gundams that are all white and silver like he wanted. In the event he & the company conflicted, he wins. This is why this isn't the first time in your life you've seen this picture.
This will happen to all your favorite characters when they get adapted into animation in the upcoming UC100 shows.
>>24059569
>>24059451That pic doesn't explain why F91 Gunpla sold poorly and had massive quality control issues. Also Tomino explained it lesewhere that it would be easier for when the mobile suits were made into model kits, as they would be more easily posed with equally scaled human figures and easier to build dioramas around. In reality, however, as 1/144 scale model kits were becoming the norm instead of 1/100, the cost to develop new technology to color smaller kits and to create smaller, more articulated joints, among other things, actually drove the production cost up.
Do not reply to the troll.
>>24059569That's Junchoon right?
>This is how Hirofumi Kishiyama, who was responsible for GUNDAM F91 product development in the Bandai Hobby Department, recalls those times. For the previously discussed staging reasons, Director Tomino wanted to reduce the mobile suits to a size of 8 or 9 meters. The problem was that if the mobile suits were miniaturized that much, it would be impossible to put them next to the Gunpla which had previously been released in a uniform scale, creating confusion for the customer.Why did Tomino have less control than the company?
>>24059584See >>24059569 troll
>>24059584Delete. Tomino couldn't have wanted something that never happened.
>>24059561As much as it's often defended the downscaling from a creative and cinematic perspective—arguing it improved visual composition and human-to-mecha staging—this artistic rationale was largely a post-hoc justification for a strict top-down corporate mandate
>>24059451they literally designed them smaller so they could market 1/100 kits while using the same amount of plastic as 1/144 kits. It is literally a reduction in cost.
>>24059569A little off topic, but how does Nagano make MS that look super retro but also more futuristic than the official designs all in one?
>>24059595he's one of the old masters
>>24059580>the cost to develop new technology to color smaller kits and to create smaller, more articulated joints, among other things, actually drove the production cost up.That's business for you. They tried a method to streamline, thinking it's like a down payment for future savings, but it ended up biting them. Theoretically, shrinking the mobile suits meant the plastic kits had tiny, intricate parts that were difficult to mold, assemble, and balance at the time. But it's like others said about Japan's economy taking a downturn and consumers having less to spend. Not to mention the kits themselves being less popular anyway>>24059506asking why other timelines didn't do that? I would testify to different real life circumstances. As for direction? I guess every other director never saw the same issue Tomino did for some inexplicable reason.
>>24059598I partially blame features like the VSBR needing their own unique modeling. I doubt they can reuse old molds.
>>24059603That's an interesting point.
>>24059598>>24059603Additionally, the volume of plastic and engineering packed into a 1/100 F91 corresponds to a 1/100 grade product line rather than a budget 1/144 line. They made a 1/144 sized hunk of plastic with more detail than average which must've fucked with cost of production. On models like the 1/100 F91 box (especially the MG Ver. 2.0), the runners are absolutely packed with tiny, hyper-detailed pieces. So it's not one-to-one plastic saving, it's also how the plastic is made.
>>24059605So the basically overdid detail?
>>24059605Like >shrinking the mobile suits meant the plastic kits had tiny, intricate parts that were difficult to mold, assemble, and balance at the timesaid. It messed with costs.
Business is hard.
does anyone know where i can find a translation for fastest formula? i tried looking a couple months ago, but to no avail so i just read f90 and watched f91.
We need more 10m mobile suits
>>24059728It exists but was removed from mangadex. It still exists in some areas of the internet. To access it, you need to kneel before Tomino and admit he has full control over Bandai 's business decisions.
>>24059757im ready to kneel
>>24059451I agree. For instance, the V-frame like of kits from 1993 comes with so much extra shit it's insane. Extra beam effects, weapons, stand, a postcard and more. The V2 itself comes with Wings of Light and if I'm not mistaken, the V-dash comes with a core fighter besides all the extra stuff to build a Hexa. Not only that but the weapon pack comes with all the weapons for all Mobile Suits, detailed hands, extra Assault Buster head and sticker sheet full of really obscure emblems for everyone.
>>24059407I'll take that as a yes
I think we should just delete every post made in this thread in the last 32 hours or thereabouts.
>>24059282I'd imagine H would be the ground type of the I-Saviour, with more classic proportions
>>24059980It would be really nice if they would fill in these developmental gaps like they've done with the Formula eraBut that would require them to acknowledge g-saviour's existence again
>>24059099I have never watched Victory gundam, and oh my goodness lord. Did she just get swatter unintentionally and her MS blew up from that?
>>24060109It's such a strange case. They refuse to refer to it in any way (except that Build Fighters cameo), yet they also refuse to just come out and say that it's not canon like Gaia Gear or disowned or something. So it's still officially canon, but completely ignored. I don't know of anything else they treat this way.Either way they are going to be forced to address it soon if the mangas keep going the way they are
>>24060109they did have the G-Saviour kit (or maybe kit box) in the background in one of these videos where they showcase kits on the youtube channel. Can't tell you which one it was exactly but I'm swearing on my soul it's there
>>24060153>>24060109I would pay whatever price they wanted for a MG. Hell I'd buy three.
>>24059584>Director Tomino wanted to reduce the mobile suits to a size of 8 or 9 meters.NOOOOO PLEASE TELL ME HE ALWAYS WANTED 15m
>>24060109The closest thing is up above saying there's rumors the javelin's successor will be 16 to 18 meter class.
>>24058014Reminder that in Crossbone: Dust it's explained the reason miniaturization ended was because of the Crossbone and Jupiter Wars and then Zanscare war decimating the infrastructure of the Earth Sphere, including factories and the R&D facilities of what remained of Anaheim. SNRI split and destroyed itself in the opening of the Zanscare War with its BESPA facilities becoming Zanscare's mobile suit manufacturing hub. The conflicts also ended much of the H3 supply from Jupiter, which slowed down fusion reactor production, lowering reactor outputs. Beam weaponry is almost mythological since much of the technology to build and maintain them was lost post-EFF as most suits in Crossbone: Dust were refitted with ballistic weaponry.
>>24060352I’d prefer that this had become the standard instead of it only lasting a few years and then by Seerauber everything rebounded like nothing over the past 50 years ever happened and then it’s back to crusty Crux and his 12th contingency plan to destroy the world.
>>24060352>The conflicts also ended much of the H3 supply from Jupitersee >>24059352
Spacenoid females
>>24059352>>24060352This helium shortage results in expeditions to Saturn, since without a monopoly to be enforced, there's also no reason to feed disinformation about Jupiter having the only deposits of H3 in the Solar System
>>24060573>>24059407
Miniaturization of MS is ultimately futile. Since Bandai never outright claim G Saviour to be non canon like Thunderbolt, in the far future of UC, MS will be big again.
How powerful/advanced is the G-Saviour? Is it truly the product of an utterly decadent era or can it actually compete with past Gundams from late UC in some way?
>>24060591It is a kitbash of numerous up to date mobile suits so the tech is definitely more advanced than anything from Victory, which is decades older by that point.
>>24060591I dont think you know what decadent means.But it's probably around the capabilities of F91 era I would imagine. No newtype nonsense to be seen, so either newtypes disappeared or the tech did. Beam shields are common, but MS also seem to be able to tank several beam shots, but is that a result of the armor being that much better or the beams being weaker?There are no crazy gimmicks like wings of light around. Everything is basic. The Raiven has beam rotors, but thats the only real Victory era tech we see.
>>24060605Beam rifles in the movie are interesting since the good looks we get at them the more they seem to act like plasma lobbers rather than beam rifles, they've really got that "goopy ball of plasma" thing going on.
>>24060608But beam rifles always shoot plasma...It's just a slightly different artistic direction of how they're depicted, I doubt they work any different.
>>24060608The game does it too, so its got to be a deliberate choice rather than some unilateral thing by the movie sfx crew
>>24060608I remember someone put it that beam rifles are essentially spitting out concentrated chunks of artificial solar particles Everything else is stylistic choice on how realistic they want to make it. In some stories the beam rifle and beam sabers are magical and only affect the general area they hit like in Hathaway where the beam saber very slowly burns through Lane's cockpit. Then you have stuff like Unicorn and Twilight Axis where just being in proximity to a beam shot outside of a MS will turn you into a Hiroshima blast shadow.
>>24060619Very strange statement to make when Unicorn and Hathaway are made by many of the same creatives and follow the same carefully crafted worldview maintained for nearly 50 years now, especially so Hathaway. Odds are they spent several days having entire philosophical debates about how to make just the cockpit melting look as realistic and accurate as possible.
>>24060610Well, no, they aren't. Beam rifles don't shoot plasma. Beam sabres are plasma, but beam rifles are particle beam weapons - they fire heavy particles (mega particles in this case) at fractional speeds of light.>>24060619I don't know why solar is in there, but yeah, you can think of beam rifles pretty easily as a water hose for a lot of practical purposes. Or just anything. Grains of sand, BBs, whatever. Except the particles are microscopic and there are a fucking ton of them. Imagine firing a gun that was a stream of sand - that's close. Several times bigger in terms of particle size, but close.
>>24060619>Then you have stuff like Unicorn and Twilight Axis where just being in proximity to a beam shot outside of a MS will turn you into a Hiroshima blast shadow.What happened there? I don't recall any characters specifically getting vaporized by beams in those stories. I mean, it happened in ZZ and Victory and Thunderbolt though.
>>24060619I didn't want to wall of text it but to get specific about things, Hathaway follows the same interpretation as the novel which broadly follows from Tomino, which is more true than most animation. You can see stray particles bouncing around the cargo pisa in the first movie, a scene directly lifted from the text of the novel. We don't get the explanation in animation, but the novel makes a big deal about how any of those particles could be microscopically tearing through important elements and are bouncing death.In the truest sense of a beam rifle you don't want to be near the beam. I can't give you a scientific radius, but the stray particles will swiss cheese you molecularly within a reasonable proximity. It would be ugly.
>>24060640>which broadly follows from Tomino's other writingJumbled myself up trying to get my thoughts out. Trying to say his depiction of beams being this way goes all the way back to his original MSG trilogy. In it there's quite a big deal made about even near-misses from beam weaponry being potentially lethal, and if not lethal then it most likely ruins the armour entirely for all the same stray particle reasons. The more realism is applied to beams the scarier they are than anything in the animation.
>>24060648>>24060640just post the webms and move on
>>24060648>In it there's quite a big deal made about even near-misses from beam weaponry being potentially lethal, and if not lethal then it most likely ruins the armour entirely for all the same stray particle reasonsDuring the battle where Garma provides assistance to Char in attacking the Pegasus:>The white MS’s beam rifle also flared. It must have been sheer luck, but the beam from the enemy rifle vaporized the rocket Char fired, and merely creased the top of his Zaku. A few particles diffusing on the edge of the beam burned part of the shield on his Zaku’s left shoulder. It still looked fine but he knew it was useless; millions of tiny holes invisible to the naked eye had been blasted in it.0083 also depicted a shield getting ruined by a near miss, getting impacted by invisible particles.
>>24060668in this webm it is quite obviously from the heat, look at the way bubbles and melts. Although it does also seem to get punctured, true.webm somewhat related but let's hope it doesn't devolve into 8 hours of raging and insults once again...
>>24060673it is heat, it's getting heated by the impact of high energy particles
>>24060605They managed to reshape the entire agriculture into something suitable for aquatic farming and fully mass produced auto piloted mobile dolls. The technology is definitely at its peak, so many breakouts in science and military arsenal.
>>24060675heat of impacting stray particles or heat emanating from the beam proper right next to it?Guess it's a distinction without a difference really
>>24060677It's vacuum brother, it won't receive any real amount of heat without it being in contact with actual particles.
>>24060679Good thing it is always in contact with particles since there is no true vacuum
>>24060683That's not how that works no
>>24060679>>24060677yes but then the silly thing happens where the GP01Fb gets swept off its feet and tumbles over like it was hit by a gust of wind from the Val Varo passing by at high speedjust saying, it's sort of just the animators\storyboard artist's creative take on the scene, we don't see beams do that to a shield ever again, with or without anti-beam coating or whatever. most of the rest of the franchise will show armor and shields getting warped and molten but no tiny impact. not that it's evidence either way.
>>24060693yeah 0083 is not the place to turn to for accurate physics representationsGundam is always hit or miss, CCA has the same gilly gust of wind and it drives me nuts cus it's great otherwise. I'm not sure but I don't think you should really see any visible heating effects from that happening, there would be heat transfer from the particles but I don't know the extent it would realistically melt anything. They're going so fast they can only transfer so much heat energy really. But frankly I have no idea what their intent was there or with the naval review scene. It reads to me like it was supposed to be animated for something in atmosphere and they just didn't know the difference (hell, maybe production had the scene animated earlier in atmosphere and it got shuffled around? I pulled that out of my ass but things like this happen) but it just is what it is unless you can find the production staff talking about it.
>>24060591it's got to be respectably powerful considering they successfully developed advanced AI and unmanned suits that are extremely fast and deadly
>>24060707Simpsons d-I mean SNRI did it
>>24060636In the second OVA, Unicorn shot a beam magnum shot so powerful that it has lightning shockwaves, although the beam magnum shot missed the Geara Zulu, the shockwaves alone hit it and the Geara Zulu exploded
>>24060718this is an intentional reference to when ZZ shows up and the psyonic reverberations echoing through the spacemosphere from its double beam rifle shot enforce hyper entropy on a neo zeon machine until it explodes, even though it missed
>>24060718that's because roughly 49% of Unicorn is a ZZ reference in one way or anotherwhether people like it or not they should accept that Fukui is, in fact, ZZ's strongest soldier in Bandai
>>24060755Those legs are fucked
>>24060718oh I thought you were talking about a person getting murked by being too close to a beam weapon, not an entire MS. oh well
>>24060610I thought beam weapons are high energy particle cannons via minovski stuff.
>>24060718>>24060766Could also be heat. Fire doesn't need to be touched to feel warm. If beams melt then they're hot.
>>24060576More than one are discussing it, clearly either a hivemind or you and them are the only active posters
>Silhouette and Neo in F90 ClusterI imagine those MGs being announced anyday now
>>24061774What's going on with the one on the left's backpack? does it have a similar articulated system to the MkV's?
>>24061792kinda but not really? just the VSBRs mounted on a little arm like this instead of a rail like F91
>>24061810Wow, I see it reuses arm joint technology from the Tristan, I didn't know its design ethos stayed alive so late into UC
>>24061774It'd be so fucked up if they don't, been waiting for them for years now. And there's so much potential for what they could do with them, maybe even a bit of mission pack compatibility just to make the kits more appealing to normies.Given how N Type released I imagine we're still a ways away from Mars Gundam and Verethragna...
>>24061774im still baffled that Bandai is doing this UC 120+ push but they dont make retail releases of the kits involved, only PBandai.MG F90 might be barebones, but just add a beam bazooka from A parts and its already a basic MG retail release or if they can, just release it as MG F90 ADS pack just like the old 1/100 F90 ADSheck, even if its relatively unknown, the MG Cluster is already pack with gimmicks that it is a worthy retail releaseand they still haven't made any HG of this stuff too
>>24062408I am tempted to get this because the old 1/100 was one of my first kits and I have some nostalgia for it
>>24062408Not making at least the regular F90 retail was a huge blunder that may very well hold back late UC from truly expanding
>>24062408>im still baffled that Bandai is doing this UC 120+ push but they dont make retail releases of the kits involved, only PBandai.Not only that but F90, their bread and butter to this whole thing, hasn't seen a global reprint this year, nor have the mission packs. This again comes back to Bandai marketing being utterly retarded and I'm reminded how bad they fumbled and crashed Gundam in the west during the early 2000's
the real dark ship, never ever kit for late UC...
>>24063115If they do, they will give you some modernized Ozempic version
>>24063133you don't know what you're talking about and that's okay
>>24063134You're new to this hobby, and should probably leave it.
>>24063138gimme a recent example then
>>24063138Been here longer than you, just go back to /gpg/ and stay there
>>24063133Damn I fucking love Ozempic I guess.
>>24063203it got taller AND thicker in placesthe only thing that seems to have shrunk are the feet
>>24063225and in fairness old kits often have unreasonably ginormous feet, hardly something we have to RETVRN to or whatever
>>24063115>>24063144MG Hyaku Shiki 1 and MG Hyaku Shiki 2the newer Hyaku Shiki is very lean to anemic because its following the Unicorn proportions while the older Hyaku Shiki is using the anime proportions
>>24063308meanwhile kit from the exact same project, and actually relevant to the conversation: >>24063203
>>24063325the old kit follows the Okawara lineart, while the MG follows the Katoki design philosophy, make it anemic, and long legged
>>24063331Not even remotely true on any count? Honestly I just cannot wrap my head around this level of delusion...
>>24063203Normally I'm a sucker for newer redesigns, but I feel some soul was lost on the head. The old one has a sort of "cool cop" visor look to it
>>24063203god the old one looks so goofy, I kinda want to get one just for how silly it is
>>24060589>>24060352In short, MS development are nearing extinction due to all of the factors regarding their production are nearly exhausted.
>>24063874How in the world did you manage to convince yourself this is the conclusion?
>>24063874More like they have to applied the miniturize tech to oldmobile suits when G-Saviour comes around; The Head Height should be 18.2 m (for Space mode), which is around the same size as the original RX-78-2 gundam. Though in a meta sense, ever since victory the size of MS has been creep up to around that size, with both Turn-A and Unicorn being the only Main MS that reached the 20m mark.
>>24063906
>10 years in the joint
I quite like the Literally Me Gustav
>>24064128Odd looking fellow, kinda neat but the legs just looks at odds with the rest of it still. Should gone full Novel pattern I think.
>>24063906Such disrespect... They put Luna as a pilot of the Impulse, but Mu gets left off of the Strike.
>>24064152as it should be
