>My plan for universal peace is that all the "bad people" will kill each others and the world will be inherited by the good, harmless people (the bad people also includes my own people)>if that doesn't work, kill everyone (this includes my own people)M...masterful g-gambit...sir....
Wait a sec…
>>24055260Durandal's plan at least made sense in the long work. He didn't even really wanted to "kill the bad people", just for everyone most positive future and role (for both themselves and society) to be found from birth. It remove a lot of freedom and choices but it's ultimately for the good of everyone if he it worked well. The only ones who would have suffered are those already adults, and not even all of them.That's why Kira feels like fucking shit after his death, because he really wasn't sure if he did the right thing.
>>24055264It never ceases to amaze me that there are anons on /m/ act like the destiny plan is anything other than a brave new world reskin
>>24055312Especially when Freedom straight up says "Under the Destiny Plan everything will just flip and the Coordinators (or Accords in this case) will be the assholes at the time rather than the rich people on the Earth". It shows the Destiny Plan "works" if you ghetto off and exterminate basically everyone who isn't a genius or has some useful skill. Then you can make a pretty nice personal fiefdom for your genetic overlords and some ridiculously powerful tech. But that doesn't help the average person anymore than the old system did.
>>24055252Wouldn't the more brutal people simply be likely to be the survivors?
>>24055449No you just don't understand his genius
>>24055252His plan sounds like something a child would come up with.
>>24055442tbf didn't even Durandal thought the accord thing was a failure and he cut the bridge with them before dying
>>24055252>thought this was the monarch for a second
>>24055461That's because he is. he was part of the first expeditions when he was young. he decided of all of this when he was much younger and refused to see any other way even as he got older no matter the cost...doesn't that reminds you of anyone else?
>>24055252Characters like this shows Japanese writers have a struggle to process their past. That Japan shouldn't have to face the consequences of their actions during the war. Just teach your history not dance around the fact you were the bad guy.
>>24055720Two people actually. Both Flit and Kio fall under that. Flit refusing to see the Vagans as anything other than monsters because of Desil and Kio refusing to see the Vagans as anything other than innocent victims because of Lu.
>>24055728Why do that and just pretend we never did anything wrong? Making Japan never face their past sins and stopping US Reconstruction were two of the biggest mistakes in relatively recent history.
>>24055728>>24056973>muhhhh war crimesAmericans telling anyone to face their past is so funny.
>>24055252The day we saw they could move the colony the whole time was like a bomb went off on this sub. Immediate "worst antagonist ever" level
>>24057017>this sub
>>24057017>”the whole time”I’ve seen that for years but never once saw a shred of proof or anything from any media saying as much. I guess it’s just easier to hate
>>24057015I'm equal opportunity, I want the US to also face a reckoning for what its done. Not like it will happen because justice is dead.
>>24055312The issue is it actually works in universe(on mars) and it working is even why he was gonna implement it in the first place.
>>24057219>The issue is it actually works in universe(on mars)Please don't bring Astray excrement to this conversation. It opens a gigantic can of worms:>our knowledge of the place is very rudimentary. No material has elaborated as to how is it actually like to live there.>how many people are on Mars in the CE? A couple thousand, tops? You think a Destiny Plan could successfully scale to the ten billion living across the Earth Sphere?>we don't know the distribution of Naturals/Coordinators on Mars, but it's fair to assume there would be a lot more of the latter than of the former.>all of the Martian characters that we know of (pseudo-Yzak, pseudo-Dearka, pseudo-Lacus, her manservant) are all Coordinators. What if CE's Mars is actually a brutal geno-dictatorship like the Mars in AG or Aldnoah/Zero?
>>24055728>>24056973How could the US force Japan to come to grips with its actions during the war when it could barely sustain the occupation?I don't think either of you have the patience to read through >600 pages of study on the subject matter.
>>24057238All we can do is go off what little we do know, which is that it just werks and durandal got the idea from it working there. Until new material expands upon it we ought to just take that as is. Adding in baseless what if's delves into the realm of fan fiction.
>>24057257>and durandal got the idea from it working thereNO. The Wiki morons have been parroting "Martian Destiny Plan" for fucking years, when that has never been the case.It's a somewhat similar arrangement the Martians developed themselves to survive on a remote outpost, independent of what Durandal had been planning on Mendel for years.
>>24057275As a matter of fact, Ergnes was shocked when Durandal revealed the plan, meaning it was different from what they were doing on Mars.These fucking secondaries, I swear...
>>24055921>Flit refusing to see the Vagans as anything other than monsters because of Desil and Kio refusing to see the Vagans as anything other than innocent victims because of Lu.Let's bring this back again. Someone ought to make a WEBM out of the clip.
>>24057312I too love cherry picking
>>24055921Flit is objectively correct.
>>24055672We're not really sure exactly how Durandal fits in there. Either everything he said was BS and he was planning to hand the world over to the Accords as the new overlords once the Destiny Plan was in place or he opposed them and planning on having Shinn and Rey kill them if they made a move against them. We can only speculate, especially since Freedom was obviously written long after Destiny and the Accords weren't a thing in Morosawa's head when Destiny was written. One can guess that Durandal wanting Lacus replaced with a non Accord replacement while the Accords wanted the actual Lacus with them means the latter but you really can't tell. Orphee tells Kira that they supported Durandal's ideals but he was trying to mentally fuck with him during this so it's hard to say
>>24057505We know that the Accords considered Durandal as a paternal figure and Orphee's resentment against Kira for thwarting his plan is genuine.
>>24055252I honestly would not have hated a lot of the Vagans bullshit later on in AGE if Ezelcant was just a puppet to something else, with his whole “Eden” plan just being a result of mid to late stage X-Rounder mental decay. Would be a solid way to explain why all of the verified X-Rounders develop into fantastic pilots, but also mold themselves around autistic obsessions.
>>24057505(continued from >>24058058)>One can guess that Durandal wanting Lacus replaced with a non Accord replacement while the Accords wanted the actual Lacus with them means the latter but you really can't tell.Controversial among "certain people" over here, but the novel (penned by the movie's co-writer) gives some additional light as to what happened. Not only did the accident make Aura completely insane (no clue as to when/if she and Durandal parted ways), she was also obsessed about bringing Lacus to the fore as the leader of humankind, an idea Durandal had "discarded" as part of his plan
>>24058070The movie itself tells us that Lacus was created by Aura to be worshipped and lead the world.
>>24058075As Lacus had been "poisoned by Kira's influence" (by the novel's words in >>24058070) (which is a weird framing, since it really looks it's the other way around throughout both shows), Durandal required Meer, a pliant Lacus double to promote his agenda among the masses.We see this in action in Destiny PHASE 10, when the people in PLANT were crying for blood after the Earth Alliance very nearly nukes the PLANTs again, Durandal puts Meer on television and everyone goes "Lacus Clyne says so..." and calms down the situation.In other words, Fukuda/Morosawa changed Lacus from being merely popular/influential thanks to family connections and the "right set of politics" to having been literally created from birth to be the world's puppet-master.
>>24058058Yeah but Aura and Orphee and co wanted Kira dead on principle because they hated Hibiki so it's hard to know if him stopping Durandal really changed anything on that front. For that matter Durandal himself also wanted Kira dead but he also admires his genetic creation (unless again he was just bsing since that's when he's trying to get Athrun to accept them having him killed) while Aura considered him a failure
>>24058122>Yeah but Aura and Orphee and co wanted Kira dead on principle because they hated Hibiki so it's hard to know if him stopping Durandal really changed anything on that front.They considered him a "failure". Killing Durandal (their father, for all intents and purposes) and stopping the Destiny Plan is the reason why they want him dead.A good director could've done something visually interesting with this by having the Accords barely able to contain their seething hatred around him. No Orphee giving speeches about the state of the world or the shitter Black Knights goofing around, just resentment.>For that matter Durandal himself also wanted Kira dead but he also admires his genetic creation (unless again he was just bsing since that's when he's trying to get Athrun to accept them having him killed) while Aura considered him a failureDurandal is far more pragmatic than Aura. He considered Kira a waste of genetic potential by not joining his plan, while she was competing with Hibiki as to who could create the best Coordinator.
>>24058211They want him dead because Aura hates Hibiki and everything he stood for. That's also why they wanted an excuse to blow up Orb because Cagalli was there and she's also his child
>>24058211Durandal's version of the Destiny Plan was also much different from the Accords unless again, Durandal was just BSing the world and planned to turn it over to them after he won
>>24058350>They want him dead because Aura hates Hibiki and everything he stood for. That's Aura's hangup. The Knights see Kira as the person who stopped the Destiny Plan.>That's also why they wanted an excuse to blow up Orb because Cagalli was there and she's also his childStop making shit up. No, they want to blow up Orb because it was the one country that stood in the way of the Destiny Plan. It had nothing to do with Hibiki or Cagalli personally: Orphee says "the country" was troublesome, not her.>>24058354>Durandal's version of the Destiny Plan was also much different from the AccordsNo evidence of that.>unless again, Durandal was just BSing the world and planned to turn it over to them after he wonAnd, to be fair, no evidence for this either. Durandal already had his two enforcers of the Plan in Shinn and Rey, while he would lead the world personally.
>>24058360>No evidence of that.The evidence is Durandal's speeches saying that the Destiny Plan would bring happiness and harmony and content to all while Orphee's speech calls the Naturals inferior savage dogs who are ungrateful and unworthy of the planet they have and that the Accords and Coordinators are gonna be running things from now on and if they don't like it they'll be killed.Durandal at least says everyone is gonna get a fair shake in the Destiny Plan and be happy, while the Accords admit outright they're going to rule the Earth and make the Natural's their bitches. So either Durandal was lying or Durandal was gonna be far more fair on the Earth than Aura and Orphee were
Yeah Durandal good or bad never seemed to have anything against Naturals and wasn't a racist like many Coordinator supremacists. He seemed to pity them and genuinely thought the Destiny Plan would help them. The Accords meanwhile are super racist to Naturals (Orphee scoffs at Lacus to stop acting like a Natural and believing in love or fate or anything other than genetic superiority) and really regular Coordinators too for that matter. They only seemed to find the Plant rebels as useful fools and cannon fodder, when the coup fails Aura orders Requiem to destroy Plant next as well showing that they seemingly only felt kinship for themselves and Aura alone. Doesn't really sound like they believed in the Destiny Plan to be good for all and just wanted it because they wanted to rule over everyone
>>24058382>and really regular Coordinators too for that matter. They only seemed to find the Plant rebels as useful fools and cannon fodder, when the coup fails Aura orders Requiem to destroy Plant next as well showing that they seemingly only felt kinship for themselves and Aura alone.You're reading too much into it. Aura says that not when the coup failed, but in a fit of rage after Destiny (and GELGOOG) killed her children, the Black Knight shitters.
>>24058369>So either Durandal was lying Who is he voiced by again?
>>24058483then you admit that durandal was lying about legend and destiny taking all of zaft's resources to build
>>24058513Bro if I'm watching a gundam series and a character has Ikeda's glorious voice, I'm not trusting anything they say.
>>24058521>Ikeda's glorious voiceNot so glorious anymore. He sounded really, really old in GQuuuuuux, almost as sad as Darth Vader in Rogue One.
>>24060274That's because he IS old. He's in his mid 70s I believe. He doesn't really work for the younger version of his character anymore. Probably why he and others got replaced for most of the show.That show started airing almost 50 years ago. Beside very rare cases, You can't really keep the voice you have from your late 20s when you are some old grandpa. And he still does it better than others.
>>24060274he is old bro, that doesn't mean his voice stops being glorious
>>24061722It's not glorious anymore. Just very sad to hear.
>>24060287Furuya sort of did it, until he destroyed his career. Midorikawa and Koyasu are still going strong although they aren't quite at their 70s yet.
>>24063840 Furuya does still get some roles every now and then, even if it's really not as common. I'm surprised they still get him all the time as Amuro. Maybe he was considered "too iconic" to be replaced.
>>24063182Wrong.
