Gender identity is an empty social game, the only thing that really matters is the medical condition we call gender dysphoria for which transition is the treatment. literally anything else added on top is mumbo jumbo bullshit

There will always be people who give too much of a shit about dumb stuff.

stop tolerating faketrannism

>>45172990
She's such a fucking fencesitter midwit it pisses me off

>>45172990
>youtube thumbnail thread

>>45172990
>never getting to be a mom and have a husband
what are u talking about
i want to marry a trans woman and adopt 3 kids with her

>>45172990
she right tho

>>45174154
Ok. Do you live in PNW? What are your requirements and goals?

>>45172990
STEALTH, that's the real answer. The discourse doesn't matter when nobody knows your sex assigned at birth, only hons care about ASAB language.

>>45174243
I actually do yes, I am north of seattle. my dc is
sparklehole98121
my requrements are be under 27, be ok with impact and breathplay, and not ugly. Goal wise, I want an actual long term relationship not some fwb hookup, so getting to know eachother is important I wont fuck you on our first few dates. Might even be ok with waiting for marriage if you preferred that.
I work full time and I expect my partner at minimum to work part-time, until we are in a place to adopt.

>>45174489
Damn, I live a few hours way except I’m 31 ._.

Obviously I think I’m ugly but people tend to disagree. I have a full time job and savings, never really been unemployed, very active and fit. Very into breath and impact play and prefer a long loving relationship. Good luck though anon.

>>45174515
>>45174489
:smoking:

What do people mean when they say that "you don't identify as male or as a female because you are [the sex you identify as]"?
There are characteristics that are obviously linked to one's sex and can't be changed just because one identifies as such, and sometimes, at all. Why redefine terminology?
My belief is that trans people shouldnt use this as an excuse to not transition, or to be themselves. It is impossible to please everyone. Live for yourself instead.

>>45172990
see I personally don’t get that view of trans women who keep their dicks/maintain it’s size, personally, it’s easier for surgery to maintain as much of it as possible, and if u aint got a lot to rely on, making sure your dick don’t shrink can be fundamental to boosting your ego, many many people are truly asexual and just have sex for ego reasons, im gonna get mine removed in time but so long as I have it I’m gonna make sure it don’t shrink because I’m 8.7” and it gets me so many compliments, if it didn’t boost my ego i wouldn’t care but i kinda rely on it to feel like I have something of worth to people

>>45174652
Why would I transition if I don't become a woman by doing so?

>>45174845
Because it’s the closest thing we have. It doesn’t change sex. Even HRT doesn’t do enough on their own to change sex characteristics and actual hormonal effects as lifestyle and diet do.

>>45174156
zip it up when you're done

>>45172990
This tranny speaks the TRUTH. These people need to realize that "To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road." Gendered language exists and is annoying, so do labels. To talk about how bad they are is to talk about them. To ignore them, and realize that taking hormones is a personal choice any mature person can make for any reason, and therefore is a right any person should be afforded. That is what we should fight for and care about. Who cares about what words are used or not, language follows the material world.

>>45174902
> It doesn’t change sex. Even HRT doesn’t do enough on their own to change sex characteristics and actual hormonal effects as lifestyle and diet do.

Whatever, nigga
If this philosophy that you're an enlightened man on estrogen gets you through the next 60 whatever years good for you

I'm a woman and the world around me seems to agree

>>45173008
How is it an "empty social game"? Whether it's possible to "win" or not, it's kinda really relevant to the discussion when the dysphoria in question involves social factors. When cis women treat me as an outsider because of my transness, or rub shit in my face with "you could never understand X" rhetoric, the mental anguish is not "mumbo jumbo", whether that can be overcome or not.

Also, generally, why do people (OP mildly guilty) on this site often act like people are subhuman or whatever for not having an indestructible human will capable of shrugging off any trauma by telling themselves "my life is beautiful; this doesn't matter" like it's a magic spell?

>>45175185
That's why this philosophy is smarmy bullshit and useless to anyone who isn't wired for positive nihilism.
Your pain matters as much as your joy and you should strive. This is just "I will accept that I'm a cis man on hrt" posting with extra words.
Mutatis mutandes nona <3

>>45172990
Is that all life is? One long distraction with shit like "hugging a tree" until you die?

>>45174902
>lifestyle and diet determine sex characteristics
there are no words for how retarded you are

>>45172990
most obvious bait thread ever
"the needle has fallen [...] Big fucking deal."
Last time the important people re-discussed what to do with freaks they decided to just kill them all. As an intersex person I was still sterilized somewhat recently. Utterly butched hysterectomy and phalloplasty on an infant - in a first world country. I was medically abused to make it visibly obvious to cissiesciety that I am an undesirable mutated amab when it was a billion times more effort for them to do so. I essentially grew up as a normal girl before that and they just couldn't stand it. Started with cutting off my tits and then worse.


"I’d never suicide" weak mindset and skill issue. If you're so proud of them, why don't you have the balls to just do it. That's what the society which you're so eager to please would really prefer. Life is not worth living for anytranny else until people like you rot in the ground.
In conclusion - please kys faggot <3

I'm just going to stay stealth fuckallya gen z retards who ruined it all, even susans managed to do less damage

>>45172990
Never forget that trannies pushed agab language to appease afabs. You don't get to cry now.

>>45175409
Yeah, gen z totally ruined it by being younger than you

>>45175413
I transitioned over 18 years ago at 15 and have been stealth for 15, you little retards are responsible for the optics nuke with this queer this and that shit

>>45175418
I don't care nor did I ask for your autobiography.

>>45175185
>act like people are subhuman
cause they've met their own limit with their bullshit, and that limit is FAR more generous in regard to themselves than it is for those gross slime sacks they have to call "other people"
They've exhausted themselves in the task of overcoming their own damage, and take that out on others. If a person with problems admits to their dysfunction, they're attacked to drive away the costly and risky chance of being "worth helping"
It's the same shit you see with the "anti" adhd/autism crowd, they've decieved themselves and are so viciously attached to that story that they abandon basic social convention so they can keep cowering under the shelter of the maladaptive pathology they've relabeled as "inner peace" or whatever

It's convenient to assume others are dishonest somehow, and to ignore their pleas for help, especially when you're someone who has personal experience using your trauma to justify being an asshole

>>45172990
I think some trans women are so defensive about being amab cause they want to deny the unique experience of being afab.

>>45175418
i blame the parents of gen z that had fomo. they were more afraid of being called the same as their parents that they did some pretty retarded shit

>>45175917
i think that's transphobic. every woman's exerience is unique. women are not all sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns. some women are tomboys.

trying to segregate trans women from women by othering them based upon their sex designstion at birth is harmful for all women. it takes us down a rabbit hole of gatekeeping womanhood as we question a human's agency of bodily autonomy.

under the guise of safety they enact terror.

you losers identify as trans first then woman second or just none at all, you have zero female socialization and it shows

>>45172990
>>you can identify and present however you want but we all secretly see you/ourselves/each other as our biological AGAB.
so you mean the average person is transphobic and doesn't get it and spreading trans visibility was detrimental to the trans community as it undermined their safety by forcibly outting them to bigots?

almost as if the modern trannies that identify as trans don't understand how legitimate trans people feel and wear the trans flag in a similar to maga's red hat?

the reason trans ideology fell apart is because there are many equally stupid and ignorant people on the left as there are on the right. the people that identify as trans, don't get it. they're bigots trying to wear the title to shield them from criticism of their bigotted beliefs. the black people that think black people can't be racist as they have some uncle ruckus tier takes.

>>45175966
its impossible to get female socialization when youre amab, so stfu

>>45176004
make friends with women it isn't hard unless you're autistic

>>45172990
her voice sounds so annoying and unintelligible. I cant watch it

>>45176009
Im extremely autistic, i cant even make friends with men and ive been friendless my entire life

>>45176034
you didn't need to tell me that I could tell

>>45175966
so retards can't be women? you'll have downies that go through sped that were assigned female at birth. is their experience the same as a normie? do they get socialized as a female?

being a tranny is akin to being a retard because you get raise like one. that's why they all come out a little retarded in adulthood.

>>45176039
You arent Regina George, you are just a tranny male. hope this helps!

>>45176091
living the good life while you sit here and cry about having no friends

>>45175951
This is why terf ideology is so misogynistic in reality under their flag of "feminism." Treating the "female experience" as monolithic, especially for many of the negative attributes they associate as being inherent to it is textbook crab bucket mentality. They could be actually fighting the toxic gender norms put on young girls, but instead they cope with their own suffering in a deeply human, illogical manner by claiming it's a necessary part of the program, and attack anyone who challenges that notion. That's obviously trans women here, but the fires of their jealousy occasionally burn the hands of cis women too who dare to proudly exist outside the line on the map. Why are humans like this?

>>45176103
You are on 4chan. You are a loser and you have no friends. Atleast im self aware about it instead of being a fully grown man who tries to act like a stereotypical mean girl. You are embarrasing yourself lol

>>45173033
Exactly
Like girls changing their pronouns to something boutique because they obsess about gaining more points

>>45174489
Just based on a brief inventory, you are NOT getting very high up on adoption priority lmfao

>>45175951
Nah, its just that women don't have a penis. There is nothing "woman" about experiences that people with a penis have. Woman hood is exisiting with a vagina, this is intersex and trans inclusive. Sorry if you have a penis

>>45172990
>>theydens and ftmboys proudly lording their agab over others
Wtf does this mean?

>>45176042
Female downies get female retard socialization and male downies get male retard socialization.

>>45175951
>I don't like the fact that I keep trying to jam my food in the door of womanhood and you keep slamming it!! Rude! Bad! Makes my feelings hurt!>>45176004
Based
Womanhood isn't something you want to be, it's something that happens to you

>>45176216
nah, not really. just because they get care from someone of the same sex does not mean they receive the same socialization as the caregiver received based upon their sex.

the only difference between the two is teaching one to shake and one to wipe. that's it.

>>45176212
It means that they feel uncomfortable when trans men or trans mascs talk about their experiences with living in a female body.

>>45176221
you gatekeeping them from womanhood is incredibly misogynistic as you're reinforcing patriarchal norms and stereotypes arbitrarily. it only further validates their womanhood as they've become an oppressed class as the patriarchy oppresses all women.

>>45176224
Given there's so much talk about cock and sex on tttt, I am surprised people feel that way

>>45176237
Then womanhood means nothing and there are no women.

>>45176250
correct because man is created equal. it is society that segregates them based upon equity.

If you are AFAB you are socialized female for the better portion of your life. I don't mean this to be transphobic, it's just a fact. If you're AMAB, you're socialized male for the better portion of your life. Having a bunch of female friends or being the gay best friend doesn't make you mentally female lol. I had mostly female friends growing up and I still deal with mentalities that are engrained in me from male socialization, because your friend group isn't your only avenue of socialization. You are taught to be a male. You do not have female brain or a male brain, you just have your brain. Stop the larp

>>45176271
If you became a woman, whatever male socialisation you had has failed

>>45176271
And very importantly;
- if you're assigned female, you have a female brain--since you almost assuredly have a female genome with ova-compatible organs

- your socialization from 0 - 6 years old is going to inform how you respond to all future stimuli and information and continued socialization

>>45176279
Every time people say shit like this, it sounds like some MEF fetish shit. No, nothing "failed". You have to look at shit for what it is and not what you want it to be

>>45176282
>if you're assigned female, you have a female brain--since you almost assuredly have a female genome with ova-compatible organs
Trivially true but whether or not this is meaningfully different from having a male brain is dubious. That's what contemporary neuroscience shows. Essentialists only have like two copes which is to show that trans brains have anomalies that make them different from cis m brains (also true but they fail to mention that these anomalies can be found in other groups) or just evopsych babbling

>>45176279
That's not really how that works... That just means you're a woman with male socialization...

>>45176282
cais women.

>>45176284
How is that mef at all? If you're unable to read the words "fail" and "male" in the same sentence without getting horny, you might be the fetishist. The purpose of male socialisation is to produce a person that fulfills the social expectations of a man. If you don't become a man, you were not male socialised or at least the socialisation you received didn't reach it's typical end point. At the very least, it doesn't make any sense to pretend that the kind of socialisation trans women experience is identical to the one cis mean experience. I would be much more open to arguments like the one in your initial post if they didn't always use language that completely flattens those differences.

>>45176303
>The purpose of male socialisation is to produce a person that fulfills the social expectations of a man
Ok, according to whom? What is the use of saying it "failed"? Just to make people feel better? This is just a meaningless statement.

>>45176308
>Ok, according to whom?
It's literally in the word. Socialisation to become a male subject. What else would it mean?
>Just to make people feel better?
No, because trans women experience socialisation in childhood and adolescence very differently from cis men. We also have in many cases experiences that diverge very strongly from typical boys. It simply flattens the huge differences to use the same words for both. They are qualitatively different, are experienced differently, and have different end results they're not the same thing

>>45176324
Yeah it's faggot male socialization versus male socialization

>>45176343
ok, so you concede a difference. don't think many people will cosign the term you use, but it's good to see you fundamentally agree with me

>>45176370
Both are male socialization. Dykes don't get treated like males growing up, they get treated like gnc females

>>45176370
It's true
Little gay boys get treated like weird girly fag things in many "accepting" environs

Many of the transbians and HSTS got a "NO SON OF MINE'S GONNA BE A FAGGOT" deal instead, which is a similar starting point but ends up turning the little gay boy into a sexist creature in need of a woman disguise to avoid his father's wrath

>>45176376
This is completely tangential to what we were discussing
>>45176378
coal

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>>45176784

>>45176271
they swear they've failed male socialized yet their favorite games are shit like picrel

>>45172990
assigned
rapist
at
birth

>>45176271
It's easier one way than the other.
Let's face it, if you're AMAB you've spend the better portion of your life with two poisonous glands destroying your body and mind with T.
It's sad to say but the effects of T are impossible to totally reverse. It's like a hormonal scarring.

>>45176282
>your socialization from 0 - 6 years old is going to inform how you respond to all future stimuli and information and continued socialization
Generally, do people here believe your brain can't change how it responds to stimuli when your older? It's called neuroplasticity for a reason. I'm pretty confident in saying you can effectively re-socialise yourself as female if you put your mind to it living as a woman over long enough, especially if you consider "female socialisation" to mean how to live as a female rather than just a cluster of childhood traumas that every cis woman is exposed to differently and should strive to overcome anyways. I know people are going to say that's cope or whatever but I think on the contrary, this thread is very guilty of preferring negativity for self-flagellation for its own sake as well as the old fallacy of "it feels positive so it must be hugbox"/"it hurts so it must be true."

Not like I'm even gonna check for replies if I'm smart, the dysphoria from reading this coal rhetoric is halfway to making me wanna kms.

>>45176757
Have you ever noticed how people have core personality attributes that modify how they see everything, even when they attempt therapy?

The longer you live, the less plastic you are, because more and more connections have been made that guide your behavior.

>>45176680
Not saying you don't have a good point here, but do keep in mind that I've seen a lot of discussion about the significant but unknown number of (cis) girls who would play tf2, posing as boys, back in the hayday of tf2. Now there are a significant number of female Overwatch players to my understanding.

Playing "masculine" video games does not in itself rule out female socialisation because it turns out that the gendered nature of playing them is arbitrary and predominantly societal in nature.

>>45176780
This is only true if you don't use psychedelics once or twice a year. Which you absolutely should do. Stagnation is death

>>45176780
1. Some people change that stuff pretty dramatically. My dad had to rewire and overcome his white ghetto socialisation when he escaped the trap.
2. Some of those attributes are hereditary in origin.
3. I can't really think of any common core personality traits like that, which are extremely difficult to overcome, would come from one form of socialization and rule out another.
4. A lot of the "difficult to change" stuff we're talking about here is from trauma, which any reasonable person should be actively fighting to remove the causes from society, and is not mentally well to be considered in gatekeeping like this imho.

>>45172990
ts is why I operate on a personal "don't ask don't tell" policy. i can't trust you to treat me like a normal woman if you know my gametes, so i can't trust you with the knowledge of my transness or transicity of however tf you're suppoed to say that

>>45176703
1. Assumes you're not youngshit.
2. How much do we say that you need to reverse to be within normal cis female brain range? The answer cannot be "all" since cis women have T as well during puberty and that varies depending on the person, as well as their individual socialisation. There's a grey zone crossing somewhere and not at the very extreme end.
3. Why is everyone here so determined to believe people fundamentally can never overcome shit from their childhood. God forbid your parents beat you or you endure severe bullying in school, I guess your brain is fucked and no therapy or anything can fix you; just LDAR on your mental issues, it's over for your life apparently.

>>45173008
It's exploitation of disability to further commoditize it. Every additional gender is a new product to accompany shit to sell.

It's disingenuous, toxic to society, and destructive to the actual MEDICAL condition being exploited.

There aren't 1000 genders. You need dysphoria to be trans, anything else is a trendy larp for attention for the teenager doing it and money for the liberals promoting it. Medical treatment (hrt, surgery, etc) is the treatment, social recognition is an aspect not a destination and for normality not for clout or fame.

>>45172990
I think we made a lot of progress
>you can identify and present however you want
this was unthinkable just a few decades ago
>but we all secretly see you/ourselves/each other as our biological AGAB
secretly so you can't even be open about it without being an asshole

>>45176877
People can overcome shit from their childhood, but only afabs, as the T has not scarred their brain and body.
>your parents beat you or you endure severe bullying in school
Heh, violence and bullying heh? Gosh, you're such a scrote. Begone rapist!

>>45174652
You said it yourself, language doesn't change reality. Neither does social reprogramming to just pretend the entire point of life doesn't exist (reproduction).

The answer isn't lazy hacky liberal gaslighting and slop slump post-modernism, it's advancing science and technology until we are in a place to fully transition people, and support trans people and society in the process.

>>45173033
gender is dumb made up bullshit and trannies treat it as life or death (literally)

>>45175127
Sounds great for profits. Not great for society or those people when the non-trans people detrans tho, but who cares about them because I got mine right?

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>>45177098

>>45172990
>acronyms invented by trannies hurt trans people
trannies literally cannot stop self-harming for even a second

>>45175185
It's a part of it but it's not the whole thing like it is for tucute LARPers and the liberals who profit.

It's important to fit in as a woman. So is having breasts and a vagina. I'm less concerned with how feminine or dainty someone is. I live in America, there are a lot of tomboys atm which unlike gender is subjective within a societal moment.

>>45172990
>5 years hrt
>no voice training
?

>>45177006
>invented by trannies
Do you count intersex as trannies?

>>45177098
trannies call themselves intersex all the time

>>45177100
Yeah and that's super cringe ngl

>>45177100
>intersex
most retarded word ever.

>>45172990
what should i use instead when the distinction matters?

Today is october 31, is this everything is red.

>>45175246
yup.

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>>45174123
>person on the wishywashy centrist website is fencesitter midwit
fork found in fork drawer

>>45177194
i think the point is that you should only use it when the distinction matters, but most people use the same way TERFs use TiM and TiF

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>>45176972
trans rights are literally reproductive rights. the fact that any trans person is infertile is a manufactured crime against humanity that could be solved yesterday.
do you think trans people and looksmaxxers aren't equally cursed by neoliberal faggotry? we're all born on this train, and we will have to pirate it for ourselves. saying people should wait until muh technology is tantamount to saying "kys subhuman" for people wanting to improve their circumstances somewhat

>>45175185
because, at the end of the day, nothing happens without will.
it's less a matter of "my life is beautiful; nothing matters" and more "god would never burden me with more than i can handle, so this puzzle must have a solution"

>>45177193
Just means you're a gamete fuckup, mostly.
We only care about intersex because it means, historically, "this neonate is broken. It will not make more of itself". [discards baby off cliff]