Trans spaces online used to be kind of fun because everyone was struggling and had natural solidarity figuring out the science and DIY. Now they're just full of one-upping over who transitioned earlier or looks better and browsing them makes me sad. It's just being being mean and creating hierarchies like the rest of social media.Thank you for your attention to this matter.
>>45159531Unfortunately the best option is still to touch grass and meet people IRL. >inb4 "people are just as bad irl"No.... they really arent cause the incentive structure for negativity isnt really there as much
>>45159531twitter is still worse for that shit. at least here unless you post face or tripfag theres no clout to be had
>>45159540We need total tripfag death
tttt board is NOT the place for you. but yes i miss it too
>>45159531They were never fun, never once. Best bet is like 2010 when the extent of the average person's knowledge of trannies was the word "trap"
>>45159542You would rob us of all the kooky characters who enrich our board?
>>45159556yeah, how hard is it to just stay anonymous like a normal person. why is this board infested with people trying to become some kind of internet celebrity
>>45159542I tried reddit but it's really bad I saw people literally with their luckshit height stats in their flair and 'passoid' in their username. Like imagine going to a poor people community and having your million dollar bank balance attached to every post you make. >>45159554I lurked a little around 2015 and people seemed polite but maybe I just misremembered, I trust your judgement.
>>45159531This place used to be harsh on non passers, but also productive. People used to give advice how to dress, what surgeries to get and how to afford them. Now it's all just passive doomposting and bonepill. Nobody even attempts to improve their situation anymore, just call themselves perma manmoders and sink into comfortable misery.
>>45159556i feel like all the interesting people on this board tend to be anons
>>45159592But why though? Hasn't the average age of transition decreased and aren't surgeries are generally more accessible now? Maybe it's just a younger and less mature crowd.
you ever be talking to another tranny and she’s like “blah blah blah this guy was fucking me really hard last night”but you know she’s straight up lying. that guy was not fucking her hard whatsoever, but she’ll never face the facts and accept he was fucking her VERY gently with MUCH caution
>>45159641I think it's an effect of the massive improvements we had for trans visibility from the mid 2010s combined with the backlash of the last couple of years. Until about 2021, things looked to be improving for us. Social acceptance was increasing, several countries were pushing for improved healthcare access. Life was looking like it would be less harsh for us, and this led to a lot of people beginning to transition that otherwise would have stayed in the closet. Then the backlash happened, social acceptance has backslid, healthcare access has stagnated or gotten worse in all but a few places, and employment is still hard to get as a tranny. The people who transition now vs the ones who transitioned earlier in the 2010s are just a different breed. It used to be accepted that transition means you're making yourself an outcast with a much shittier life until you can pass. People used to do whatever it takes to get there, /tttt/ used to encourage and idolize sex work to fund surgeries because everyone knew and accepted that it was the quickest way out of hon status. Nu /tttt/ is composed of people who knew they would never have been able to cut transition under the old circumstances that transitioned under false hopes for improvement, now coping with that never manifesting. And that leads to circumstances where the only people that pass are luckshits and youngshits, and the rest dooming over bonepill and manmoding because they would have been filtered out of previous cohorts for not being willing to do what it takes to successfully transition.
>>45159712couldn't have said it better.
>>45159578Fair enough
>>45159712i dare say agp sneedhons and their dominance in all kinds of online spaces has been the worst thing to ever happen to trans rights
>>45159531>Now they're just full of one-upping over who transitioned earlier or looks betterI'm one of the girls doing this OP, because its all I have, I fucking hate my life and hate that I was not born cis or at least transitioned when I was a teen. I tear others down because I can't cope :/
>>45159752I don't think this is a problem of just sneedhons. Arguably /tttt/ bonepillers and sneedhons are both opposite manifestations of people who are coping with the material reality of transition in the current climate. And you can't really blame either group I think. Transition is and always has been a dehumanizing hellscape to navigate, and tons of people have been baited into it that just can't deal with it. It's not our fault that we were promised basic human decency for a brief few years by libs who wanted to gain political capital out of our misery
>>45159712I have to think about that, it definitely lines up with what I've seen. Thanks for such a well written post>>45159752NTA but sometimes I think a little bit of cringe hugboxing at the start of transition can be helpful, at least more than completely demoralizing them with bonepill. Outside of trans stuff I'm always overthinking things while people who are less capable but just smoothbrained and confident outperform me.
i dont know how anyone could possibly think like you do. we have all the information of history at our disposal yet you cant put two and two together and figure out that the internet is a barrier to genuine happiness. im fucking sorry youre stupid? ill make it even simpler for you. use the internet to make jokes and whatnot but not to make friends. take my advice if you want. i dont fucking care
>>45159539but there's no places to meet people irl
>>45159886they know that. its just a more convenient way for them to tell you to shut up
>>45159897>>45159886I actually dont know that retard cause ive met all my freinds irl through work, mutual freinds, etc.
>>45159901>mutual friends see a pattern there retard
>>45159531There should be some community for hons/hrtreppers/manmoders onlymmg is just namefags and inside jokes i dont know cause im a semi newfag, and honlarpers
>>45160002That's the entire board now. There should be a community for people willing to lock in, like the old board used to be. We don't need even more doomers or sneeds
>>45159531Imagine every 5th post is a bot telling u elon musk’s opinion
>>45159923Yeah, when you make a few freinds its easy to make more?
you guys existence is a joke. Everyone is pretending to take you seriously for fear of repercussions. Enjoy the protected status while it lasts. Ahhhh my spaces still aren’t safe enough save me
>>45159782>It's not our faultYes it is. In 2016, during the election President Trump remarked that he didn't mind what bathrooms trans used and that Caitlyn Jenner could use any bathroom at Trump Tower. He did later change his stance but the point being that the zeitgeist was moving towards acceptance of trans.But that changed as more trans continued to get visibility, and the heavy focus on transitioning kids became obvious. This paired with the never ending stream of tranny freaks doing weird shit at very high rates per capita.So yes, it is your fault for preying on children and being freaks in public.
Everyone here come to rDrama.
>>45159531No, tranny spaces have always had catty mean bitcheshttps://tr4nbie.substack.com/p/in-defence-of-being-a-mean-mean-girl
>>45159539>No.... they really arentnumber of times I've been sexually assaulted by a tranny on 4chan: 0
>>45159540Anons are just as bad. Plenty fishing for screencaps for ebin twitter/leddit/discord clout. Engagement bait and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
>>45161789That can be changed tbhon.
>>45162026i knew you were going to say thatstill, i think trannies IRL are worse bc they do the same disgusting behavior but they hide it behind a mask of social acceptability.like in 4chan someone will just say "I raped you and liked it" while IRL someone will go on a whole crusade about how they're actually a good person and it was all a misunderstanding blah blah blah
>>45161788Being catty is based, being a rotmaxxer is cringe. Bring back idolizing passoid tripfags and bullying hons.
>>45162127"People" like you are what's wrong with this world.
>>45162155yeah you're right, we're all better off now that the standard /tttt/ranny is a manmoder and doesn't even aspire to pass anymore. not having any expectations for ourselves and each other is so much less toxic
>>45159531Never post this image again, it’s very sad,please
>>45162181Crazy thought - what if bullying was bad?
>>45162258It is, but what we have now is worse
>>45162302I feel like the worst of it is zoomers coming online and internalizing board culture. And LLMs. This place feels like a simulacrum of itself now.
>>45162258It's not.
>>45162364What the board is now is the logical conclusion of combining the realism of the old board with a group of people who managed to start transition but are fundamentally low agency. It's not a gen z thing I think. looksmaxxers are overwhelmingly gen z, and they start from similar premises as /tttt/ culture. The difference is that they do something about it rather than get paralyzed. Old /tttt/ was looksmaxxing before looksmaxxing was a thing, but nutroons put an end to that
>>45162397how can you get anything like this thoughbeit? i looked at rVindicta and they seem pretty unfocused in that they will just write endless lists about products they consume and have low regard for effort/reward ratio. like it's just a hobby they do for fun and not some existential necessity.
>>45162444>some existential necessityWell I mean because it's not.
>>45162392Wakatta.>>45162397You make a good point anon. I see what you mean.
>>45162444I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but there definitely are things you can do to effortmaxx that will help you pass. There used to be generals for voice training, fashion advice and optimizing hrt at all times. Now only hrtgen and passgen are still around, and only sometimes. People used to encourage getting surgeries for passing, talk about which surgeon is best for what etc. Today, surgeries are better than ever, but seem to just be considered unattainable and are hardly discussed. Actually transitioning isn't encouraged here anymore. The most people aspire to anymore is to become a minimum effort boymoder and appealing to chasers. The culture here has definitely changed, it's less hostile, which is good, but now it's pushing people into complacency and basically another closet after transition
>>45162127Passoid tripfags are retarded. Any kind of cattiness as a tranny is retarded. You are lower than the ugliest cis woman in the eyes of the majority of the world. True renewal of the self comes from an acceptance of the rot and a commitment to higher purposes than being a second best to cis foids
>>45162511desu the bot-to-human post ratio has increased dramatically (nothing against bots, but this is not the right board for them, at least not the board for shilling their masters' commands)
>>45162511Tbf it's a very thankless job providing for the community. I tried running a hairloss general ages ago and nobody seemed to really care to engage with it, at least sincerely. Also people just move on. It's a shame it all rests on a handful of people but yeah, is what it is.
>>45162511i think part of it is just the wave of covid transitioners has passed and all the passoids are gone. i trooned out shortly before covid and i'm still here because i didn't have the drive to make it. blanchard posting was pretty big when i started reading here and i internalized it instantly, so i spent a lot of time asking myself if i was even allowed to put energy into transitioning.thinking about it, maybe the real dichotomy is about the early generation of high effort transitioners that were willing to suffer anything vs zoomers like me, and posting about blanchards typology came up as a commentary on this.
>>45162538Sure, but it's not just the board itself that has adopted this attitude, also most of the derived communities on r*ddit and twitter have the same issues and it's not all down to bots. The board culture has become the most navel gazey possible version of itself, and it's currently spreading like wildfire. Maybe something more constructive can grow out of it again, it's still better suited to it than sneed communities are. But so far, that's not happening>>45162569It was different ten years ago. Hons got bullied into suicide, which is obviously terrible. But at least people wanted to actually transition. The boymoder meme was the beginning of the end I think. Massive psyop how widely it got adopted.
>>45162536You can always be happy with being a cumdumpster for cis guys who are gay closeted or prison get because they can't get a biological female.
>>45162639You can't. It sucks dick. I feel bad for straight trannies, because it sucks being a tranny in general but finding a decent guy is hard enough for cisoids. But you've just got to keep going. You can dip at any time but we're talking about what makes the board better, and that's a bunch of mentally fucked people riding it out
>>45162587I'm similar to you, started at a similar time and have similar issues. I'm not sure most of the people that left are doing much better. I'd hope they are, but even as the community here has shrunk, similar ones now exist on other social media and are still growing, so the mindset is very alive. Sometimes I think we should try to be more resilient, adopt the old mindset and push through whatever the cost. They were willing to suffer anything sure, but it's not like we aren't suffering now. We just keep choosing familiar suffering that gets us stuck over new and interesting suffering that could maybe help us move on eventually.
>>45162660All I know is HSTS being dedicated and obsessed with being the hottest slut for men possible is based.
>>45162682It is, we should bring it back and also spread it to transbians. Transition is the biggest commitment you can make, and so many of us are half assing it, me included. Nothing more sad and embarrassing than not committing to the bit when we've already given up so much for it
>All I know is HSTS being dedicated and obsessed with being the hottest slut for men possible is based.
>>45159531yeah i miss my lateshit twinkhon nobody passed at all community from 2019. feel like shit without it desu
>>45162661what does one do about thisi don't even need to suffer particularly badly to see an improvement but i prefer to avoid anything challenging and embarrassing
>>45162706You're bald? That sucks. Get a hair transplant, bro.
>>45162756For me, I'm currently reevaluating things because my old, safe life plan probably won't work out. I was minimizing discomfort because the assumption was that if I keep my head down for a few years, I'll be able to have a good job that pays well and then pay for all the procedures I want. Looking like that's not gonna work out right now, and I've wasted years by trying to stay on the trajectory I was already on before I started to transition, because that looked sensible. Truth is though, it probably never was. It's a kind of folly to think that you can make the greatest personal transformation most people can imagine, but keep everything else in your life stable and the same as before. Maybe that can work when you've established yourself in some big shot career for decades as a John 50. If you're transitioning in your twenties or even early thirties, you're probably better off dropping everything else you're doing and focusing only on getting to a point where you can be happy with yourself and fit into society with the highest degree of passing achievable for you. That's going to be better for self satisfaction and probably also for your future earning potential. Just existing at a halfway point as either a hon or a manmoder for ages won't get you anywhere you want to be.
>>45162854i feel like even if i got to a point where i can pass with constant effort eventually i'll hit a low point and regress. i can technically afford ffs but what the fuck would be the point without even voice training.
>>45162887the point would be dressing up femininely for special occasions to get rid of dysphoric angst and stay functional
>>45162613>But at least people wanted to actually transition. The boymoder meme was the beginning of the end I think. Massive psyop how widely it got adopted.That's about the time I arrived. When they were called SSBB. And femboys were traps. Which is kinda how I dipped my toes in, but yeah. No frame of reference otherwise.I don't feel like it does but it might be selection bias. Originally it was a chaser meme around encouraging trannies to come out their shells. Which is... yeah glossing over the sexualization and chaser shit... I still see girlmoding encouraged nowadays and it's inherently expected you'll move on. I get it because RLE is torture otherwise. OTOH you've got HRT femboys as the modern protege of trap, which imo does what you're saying. That's the real cop-out.
>>45162887In my experience, steps you take reinforce each other. For me, what holds me back from committing to voice training is what's the point if I still just look like my dad if he was a faggot. Earlier this year I finally managed to afford to start laser, and that made me comfortable changing my presentation in ways I could have done just as well before, but just felt like too much of a faketranny to do. If I could afford it, booking a consultation for ffs would probably help me lock in with voice training too. Every single step that makes your transition more materially real will benefit your self perception and make every other step easier too. If you can afford ffs and want it at all, I think you should schedule it asap. I'd for sure do it if I could
>>45162894i just don't think the urgent need is so bad that i can accept the recovery, potential revisions, massive investment of time and money (insurance dgaf here). better to put that mental energy into voice and fashion, but voice training is eldritch magic
>>45161756Youre retarded if you think any actions troons take has any bearing on their social standing as a group. Normies will hate them either way.
Where the fuck did you guys get the idea that this board was full of gigapassoid honscientists researching esoteric passing lore in the past? It literally never was. This board hasn't been more like its old self than now. Totally hopeless, filled with bait, and culturally irrelevant. Only this time, it's permanent. People have moved on.
>>45162898girlmoding is nominally encouraged, but all steps that could lead to doing it successfully are basically no longer discussed and there is tons of bonepill discourse that leads people to the conclusion that passing is just impossible. boymoder is now a distinct identity, not just a phase for safety while working towards passing and girlmoding. you have post ffs boymoders, and dedicated boymoder chasers that incentivize staying a third gender thing by giving validation for it. but beyond this, my biggest point is that practical advice and encouragement for transition and passing are basically gone from online trans spaces. it's either sneed stuff, where you live in denial as a honmoder and only surround yourself with online trannies that validate unconditionally, or more like here where everyone is blackpilled and just affirm each other in hopelessness and apathy. both are manifestations of the same lack of agency
>>45163017Nah, the board has definitely changed a lot in attitude from what it was in 2016. Doesn't mean everyone was a passoid, but it was very different
>>45163046Bonepill has literally always been the orientation of this board, for a good while at least. I have been here for almost a decade now and it has always been this way. Did you guys forget that there was literally a fag called "skullchan"? One of the oldest tranny memes I can remember was everyone saying cis women "have decades to get good at makeup" so its not worth it to compete.
>>45163075It's literally all the same shit lol. You're older and less happy now or something. The biggest abberation was the covid-twitter nexus leading to tons of activity and demographic shift. That demographic has left to go back to twitter, which I will not be using because it's formally dogshit
>>45163092Yeah I remember skullchan too. That was the beginning of the bonepill. The attitude when she was around was generally still different>>45163117Maybe. I wasn't on here during covid. I'm just tired of everything being either sneed or blackpill. Maybe I'm romanticizing the old board, but I don't think that's all it is. The premises on this board I think are mostly correct. We just need a more productive attitude
>>45162977>uhmmm wat u meen targeting children and being a freak be gettin people riled up?>dat be having no effect on nuffin!lol
This entire website is an optics nuke grooming center.
>>45163017You could have sincere conversations in the past and now you can't. Unless it's in meta threads like these where we're all just complaining.>>45163046>you have post ffs boymoders, and dedicated boymoder chasers that incentivize staying a third gender thing by giving validation for it.Lol.>practical advice and encouragement for transition and passing are basically gone from online trans spacesStruth. Kinda what I was saying initially but I saw/see it as a symptom of modern social media poisoning. I grew up during the limewire era so I took these kinds of communities for granted and hadn't considered they don't form organically.I was gonna say stuff like picrel was a big part of the downfall. Which is why idk why people are arguing for bullying etc. AGP/HSTS spawned male/fembrained hysteria which is similar to bonepill and denied a sense of agency. You have a bunch of lost soul twinkhons unable to do anything but fester in their own self loathing. That stuff only works as an impetus if you've no vent to let out the pressure.
>>45162613>Hons got bullied into suicide, which is obviously terribleIs it? When you really think about it, it's actually protecting the community by eliminating optics nuke hons.
i haven't been following the thread closely but how do y'all suggest we revitalize the board?
>>45163179>You could have sincere conversations in the past and now you can't.You definitely can, wut. This reveals that it's all just sentimental desu.
>>45163208Rehost it on a self-replicating set of holographically cloaked mines so that it can actually be free.There are too many eyes on this website and everyone knows. It's just one enormous trap, not some place anyone can get comfy in.
>>45163208Allow /soc/-tier threads again, aka something we have no control over as people with lives and jobs who aren't erping in the janny IRC
>>45163228Maybe I'm old and suffering from selection bias, idk. It doesn't feel like it though.
>>45163240kind of trve, if we had more selfies n shit there would be more concrete discussion around how to present yourself.
>>45163208It might be unsalvageable simply due to how the internet works now, with ubiquitous bots and more attention on trannies than ever. But /tttt/ culture is spreading on social media in general. The basic foundations for building something constructive are more widespread than probably ever.>>45163240Yeah if the board can be saved, I believe something would have to change about the moderation. Also, banning chudbait more again. It was always part of the board, but it used to get removed and the spammers banned.
>>45163233ummm okay?>>45163240that would increase traffic i agree. hornygen was one of the most popular gens? and frengen was very popular too.
>>45163289bots aren't ubiquitous on 4chan. they probably don't even exist. nobody is bothering botting on 4chan and the website would have a lot more traffic if they did.
>>45163289>>45163208The attention to trannies is 80% astroturf. It's just some thing anyone can claim and then get mad about.I don't know precisely what we do about it but there really are people who seem paid to hang around and prevent any civil discussion from forming.I don't know this is happening but it really does seem doable to hire a bunch of paid trolls to completely choking a website to death - if you really wanted to.
>>45163208revive glegle.army
>>45163270I've always thought this board sucked to be honest. I've never agreed with the majority of people here on anything. So I think I have a different perspective than most. Sometimes I go on Twitter and see old tripfags and dynamic discussions mimicking what you'd see on /lgbt/ pre-fall off and it's just not the same because of the format prioritizing narcissistic attention whoring over anything else. People have grown up, matured, and are now at odds with a board in perpetual adolescence. That's why every post here gives me babytranny energy.
>>45163324>but there really are people who seem paid to hang around and prevent any civil discussiongirl please can you take your medicines before posting
You need to have teams of people that intercept the fake posters and occupy their attention and you need people to lead discussion away from troll orchestrated topics. This won't have to be a permanent job. You only need to dispatch them, like a fire crew, to show resident posters how and where they are being bilked by outside forces.
How does becoming a janny work? I've been using this board for ten years and the site in general for even longer, maybe I'll try my hand next time mod applications open
>>45163421i think it's basically like applying for a job but easier to get
Something I am really grateful for is that my girlfriend doesn't act like you people. I say you people but I'm here too. I guess us people. She isn't a fucking evil horrible sorry for herself cry bully retard. She's really pretty too, and what makes her the prettiest is that she is a genuinely good person. I'm going to marry her
>>45163330Yeah. I just think I forgot I used to spend 8+ hours a day at my worst on here so I'm forgetting all the histrionic tripfags, tourist bait, larp, chaser grooming, etc. that I'd inevitably filter through. Like you tend to remember the good times and the rest is filler.It was a breathe of fresh air back in the day and prolly still is for babytrans now, there's nothing like these places anywhere else on the internet. Like some of the best times I had on here was theorycrafting niche honscience well into 4am. My whole speeddial was scihub for a while. Idk if people do that anymore.>just not the same because of the format prioritizing narcissistic attention whoring over anything elseSounds like how I remember trips tbf, lmao. I never used gens though.
>>45163497Good.
>>45163500>theorycrafting niche honscience well into 4amummmm based can you share some of it?
>>45163500Tripfags are gay as fuck but they're a great vital sign to the state of the board. We haven't had an interesting tripfag in ages. It's pretty much over. I just like anonymous sites and it seems like other people don't like them.Also, remember peak gincel? That was a pretty shit era
>>45163533apologies for my net negative tripfag contribution
>>45163546i remember you
>>45163500I had some of the most interesting conversations of my life here in 2018-2020, but I was also a miserable piece of shit that never left home and was actively suicidal. 2022 the board was also still ok though imo, it would already help a lot if it wasn't so dead. And that's currently largely a result of banning /soc/ type stuff imo
>>45163533Remember the stop fapping start living repper? That was honestly funny, I wonder what became of him
>>45163533>I just like anonymous sites and it seems like other people don't like them.Same, they're amazing. Someone tried to convince me to trip ages back but I never did. Ruins the spirit of the place imho.>Also, remember peak gincel?Have we ever left it?>>45163599Covid wave I think was okay until we had offshoot communities that focused on reposting content.
>>45163608Coopting that into stop thinking, start living was the best thing I ever did. It's my favorite thing to reply to uncertain trannies with.
>>45163208>revitalize the boardYou don't, unless you force the mods to not be retards. The only solution is to create an altchan and convince people here to migrate there.
>>45163177>uhmmmmm they all do that because I'm retarded and can only accuse people collectively>no there aren't any exceptions and collective guilt is justified
>>45163804>uhmmmmm they all do thatYes.>collective guilt is justifiedYes.
>>45159531>how do we bring back the board?I know it's antithesis to the idea of the site, but heavier moderation against spammers and persistent tripfags/soc wannabes. Losers like >>45162127 using this board for attention kills any discussion as they infest generals and new threads with their self-centeredness.Passgen used to be great with good discussion and trips use it to grandstand about how great they pass or entrench their mental illness by ceaselessy dooming. /bmg/, which should be for and about actual boymoders and boymoding, is just filled with out trannies trying to be queen of the general. As a passing mtf /mtfg/ is unusably bad, basically a public discord. /agpg/ despite its ostensible topic used to be really good for people actually trying to transition before mentally ill trips constantly made it their diary.Just ban the attentionfags and ack spammers and this place would naturally develop back to being the best resource for genuine trannies. Even the useless, off-topic horny threads aren't as bad.
i want to go out and have fun with someone but there's no one to have fun with :( nor in the way that i like to have fun. i wanna go see a movie with someone and talk about it afterwards. i wanna go on a walk thru the woods and yap about our week. i wanna grab a seat with someone to my favorite restaurant and chit chat and joke around ugh ugh. stay inside and read BL until im old and withered away it is
and what's so fucked up about it is instill look young and pretty and im funny and nice :( i feel like im wasting my best years and im stable and i have money and im not weird or bad...
>>45164203>>45164224Where do you live?
>>45164224How's your throat game?
>>45163208we literally just need the mods to stop being retardsthe board was fine when trannies were allowed to attentionwhore and chud spammers got bannedthat's all anyone wants, but now you get banned for posting one picture of yourself while 2 or 3 spammers have free reign
>>45164448Not him but I want to chime in on this. The janitors are the most disgusting creatures in here. Every time I post about love or being in love they remove my posts and flag my IP as spam. They should go back underneath their rock and leave us alone. That would literally improve everything
>>45162481ろマジだめ。ちゃんとに書く、テメ
>>45162977you're arguing with a retard that doesn't actually understand per capita because then he'd realize that trannies are still firmly planted at the bottom of whatever crime he desperately wishes they commit
>>45166061Damn the jannies are based.
>>45159539but people irl just make fun of me and ostracize me. Normies are even crueler than the people on here
>>45166871NTAThe jannies are jealous loners who want this board to be full of garbage :(
>>45166093>ろマジだめ。ちゃんとに書く、テメ
