Is there really a whole lot to learn from 40 year old US tech?
>>65616773considering they've only been producing the same 40 year old design until today? they'd learn how much theirs sucks, assuming they didn't know this already. will they change anything because of that? no.
>>65616773https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_Systemaegis is 80/2 years old
>>65616773>random who twitter thread
>>65616773Abrahamski clones soon))))
>>65616807No.
>>65616773So trump is just giving putin tanks too now? jfc
>>65616773They will use that as a firing target and then say that russian tanks are supperior.
>>65616773Of course, that tank design is decades ahead of Russian tech
>>65616773It's a 19yo upgrade package and is very worth while if the Blue Force Tracking and FBCB2 still in it.Even if they aren't it's always worth testing what fools the FLIR and what is it's detection range is against different targets.If you have never seen a T-54/55 it's still worth testing it's capabilities so you know what you are up against no matter how shit it is.
>>65616773They already 'tested' the Leo 2 they captured and found that it was totally inferior to their T-72. Or was it the T-62? They spammed their 'research results' here for weeks.
>>65616773how did a Saudi Arabian M1 end up in BCC Pucchia
>>65617308Most likely an Aussie one, we run the SA and sent Ukraine 49.
>>65616773>twitter thread
>>65616848Yeah.After 2300 Armatas..
>>65616773Why repost a two year old tweet?
>>65617319Genuinely, how hard can it be to build these pieces of shit at scale when they already have several active production lines making other pieces of shit like the T-90? What's the hold up?
>>65617409Doctrine and cost. Russia realize that drones are the future of warfare and they shape their doctrine acordingly.
>>65617409Armata is a fake tank for parades.That is the only task it was designed to perform.
>>65617409>>65617424I think they expected a shitload of export sales to pay for lines to be built, then covid caused a lot of countries to cut spending and Ukraine showed Russian tanks to be trash.
>>65617409>What's the hold up?The original design was extremely ambitious. Far too ambitious for russia to actually produce in significant numbers.It was supposed to be a western-style tank, unrelated to the mid-20th century Soviet designs that they've been recycling for decades.Basically a brand new clean-sheet design.To start with it's much larger than soviet tanks, it's basically the same size as any given western tank, and it was supposed to offer similar or even greater protection to the crew.It was supposed to feature a whole shitload of fancy tech and clever innovations, arguably even surpassing western tanks in terms of tech. Brand new engine, brand new automatic transmission with torque vectoring steering, brand new armor, fancy modern optics, a safe Leclerc-style autoloader contained in the remote-controlled turret, the 3-man crew seated side-by-side in a safe compartment well away from the ammo.Then they tried to build the thing and got a forcefed a giant slice of humble pie.The engine didn't work and no matter how hard they tried, they couldn't fix it.The transmission was similarly problematic. Replacing these parts with old and proven powertrains was impossible since those were all far too large to fit in the hull.After spending years trying to develop a reliable Leclerc-style autoloader, they gave up and installed an old fashioned carousel auto-loader instead.This caused additional problems since those jam all the fucking time, and need the crew to unfuck them regularly, which isn't possible in an uncrewed turret.The fancy modern optics became unavailable due to sanctions.All the funding kept getting wasted and/or embezzeled.Several key engineers left the country.Various companies involved either got shut down or got handed to oligarchs who ran them into the ground.It eventually reached a point where everyone involved just gave up, the project was obviously failing, so the funding kept getting cut until the T-14 project was dead.
>>65617409The holdup is that they conducted trials for the T-14 and it failed. They're not making more for the same reason they're not using the dozen they have: it's shit and literally even a T-55 is better. It has nothing to do with cost, otherwise they'd be using the ones that were already paid for and could be sent to the front for cheaper than renovating a vehicle that's been parked in a field for half a century.
Humiliation ritual.
>we've captured their science lab, we can now train chrono ivans.
>>65617565>safe Leclerc-style autoloaderNo? the two piece ammunition is still stored in a drum under the tower. However, it's separated from the crew compartment at last.
>>65617409It's a propaganda tank, they don't want to send these to the frontlines because they will get inevitably droned, and their wunderwaffe from 2015 getting BTFO is gonna be a propaganda loss for them, so they make and send the old shit to get blown up because nobody cares lol.
>>65617668Just imagine the seethe from the ziggers if some western country stooped this low and had their equipment in some humiliation ritual gallery.
>>65617445It tells you something when even Algeria isn't even up for a pity fuck.Though I think it's likely a troubled development, the loss of free access to Western electronics and ballooning costs associated with both that killed it before the russia even put out feelers for export.
>>65618031they would just end up gathering dust in a museum somewhere, being fawned over by western military otaku.
>>65616773I’m surprised they didn’t sell it to North Korea.
>>65616802>>65616773It is plausible they are letting their allies look it over. Russia can't use it but for instance the Norks use more modern western influenced designs so things like the ammo stowage and blow out panels would be of intrest to them.
>>65616773You don’t understand, anon. Russia is still stuck in the Cold War. This is like giving them a ray gun
>>65618031I guess you didn’t go to the air and space museum in 1991 after the gulf war, they had a t72, and a bmp on display. Fist time I was exposed to Soviet shitboxes, the mystique of the scary Russian tanks went up in smoke after I witnessing this.
>>65618031Pretty sure they’ve done that already, but they’ve captured so many of them that they’ll literally sell them to ranges to use as target practice. You ever been to a missile range? There’s miles and miles of captured russian tanks just waiting to get blown up by Lockheed Martin
>>65617672What would a Russian-made BoJo clone be like?
>>65616773Metallurgy tests, maybe some neat tricks on how to miniaturize certain parts or make them more accessible for maintenance. I'm sure one tank manufacturer can learn something from looking at opponents. You know there were a bunch of T-90s taken to the US for inspection too, right?
>>65616931>It's a 19yo upgrade package and is very worth while if the Blue Force Tracking and FBCB2 still in it.Operators can brick those before capture or it can be done remotely, so I'm not sure how much value they could actually get from one.
>>65618458>Operators can brick those before capture or it can be done remotely, so I'm not sure how much value they could actually get from one.They'd still be quite valuable, just not as much as if it still has the software running on it. There's also a lot of potential for them being captured without HQ realising they needed to be bricked or that signal getting through or being received.Is it known that Ukraine actually has that stuff?
>>65618239- Produced in artisanal quantities- Subpar sensors due to sanctions- Targeting matrices also fucked, leading to high rate of BoJoskis targeting A/C units and dishwashers instead of actual threats- Killswitch gene copied verbatim without understanding; dud rate in excess of 15% as a result- Most of the synflesh gets "lost" en route to the factory. In an unrelated turn of events, cosmetic surgery clinics and delicatessens along the route to the factory start posting record profits.- Lack of thermal shielding makes them easy to spot and distinguish from mobik handlers+ Switch from high-grade hydrocarbon fuels to mazut and vodka significantly reduces operating costs
>>65617424>designed to be parade queen>breaks down during paradesLiterally one fucking job
>>65617409The optics are all made in France and that's turned into quite a bottleneck after the whole Ukraine thing.
>>65617424Very similar to traitor/zigger Elon Musk’s appalling electric truck.
>>65616773My thought is that they want to figure out how to make an engine for a heavy MBT that doesn't shit itself like the Armata's.
>>65617576The armor still works, doesn't it?
>>65616773>Is there really a whole lot to learn from 60 year old Soviet tech?
>>65618548>In an unrelated turn of events, cosmetic surgery clinics and delicatessens along the route to the factory start posting record profitsThey'd never post the profits, that would invite taxation on them.They'll post absolutely unchanged on-book revenue (which was already only 50% of actual revenue).The car dealerships will import record numbers of foreign vehicles though sadly nearly 50% will experience spoilage en-route and be sold below cost causing the dealership to make a slight loss which will be deferred to next year to offset future taxes.The owner of the dealership will take on another mistress and go for a holiday in Vietnam though.
>>65618925The T-64 remains a good tank for its weight class desu. Don't see why the Booker didn't take more features from it.
>>65619471>Don't see why the Booker didn't take more features from it.Because the Booker is a case of two different admins wanting different things. The Booker was designed to be attached to IBCTs and provide fire support without infantry units having to call in mech units, air power or whatever. So the requirements were>Cheaper than MBT>Lighter than MBT>Better protection than IFV and APC>Better firepower than IFV and APCAnd that's exactly what it was. Then Trump's admin came in and went>Errrm this can't be air dropped, cancel it!And it still doesn't fix IBCTs fire support issue which is>Come up against fortifications or entrenched positions and need to put a 105 shell into itSo it got cancelled. Which I can understand if you're planning to island hop against China, but if that was the case why not build the transport, support and defensive craft required to do that? Why not hurry up a long range jet that does not require IAR that isn't the F-18 on a carrier or the F-15EX since China is building it's air force not around beating F-35's and F-22's but about destroying the IAR aircraft that are needed to keep those F-35's and F-22's in the AO.Tho the >Make more missiles and sea dronesWasn't a bad idea, but that shouldn't mean cutting everything else.
>>65619481The Booker was flawed from the very start, light tanks are nothing but death traps.
at the most they take it apart and better understand its strengths and weaknesses, as if War Thunder couldnt have done that for them already. They just dont have the capability to clone it and manufacture it even if they wanted to.
>>65616773If you actually have the capacity to do something with that knowledge, sure.You could give russians detailed blueprints of every western tank and they would still never be able to build anything like it, their industry is a hollowed out husk.
>>65619493>light tanksGood thing it wasn't a light tank then. It was an assault gun. If your assault gun is facing something bigger than a 30mm autocannon then you've fucked up somewhere along the way and even a MBT is going to be in trouble. You say it's a death trap but the desire for ICBTs to have some sort of heavy firepower without having to request it is still there. Why do you think they put a 105 on the Stryker? Because they needed a big boom on something. Same applies here. Just because a thing can be destroyed does not make it a 'death trap' because by your logic, MBTs are 'death traps' because of drones or ATGMs or air support or w/e. Don't get me started on a regular infantryman.
>>65617995Continue reading.
>>65619493IBCTs have no organic ways to deal with enemy strongpoints other than a single gun battery that will probably have dozens of fire missions lined upif the artillery is busy somewhere else, then your next option is going higher up the chain of command and calling in div artillery or JTAC for an airstrike, which isnt always going to be a givenso at this point, your only options are to wait until a fire mission is available or use AT4s and carl gustavs to try and assault the position which is the actual death sentencethe MPF company slots in at the divisional level, with platoons assigned to fill the gap with brigade level firepower as div command sees fit, providing more range and protection than firing a handheld launcher but being more reactive and easier to coordinate than div artillery
>>65619493>light tanks are death trapa>in an age of readily available anti-tank munitionsAll takes, light or heavy, are more vulnerable than ever. The booker was no more so
>>65619573the M10 booker has all-around 14.5mm protection and frontal autocannon protection with hardpoints for taking APS for RPGs and ATGMs with a gun that can accurately drop shots at long rangethis compares very well compared to riflemen who can be killed by small arms fire and has to close to within 300m to use the carl gustav to achieve less effect
>>65619575>14.5mm all aroundI'm quite confident it is significantly better than that for the weight but of course the real numbers are classified
>>6561958214.5mm all-around was what was specified30mm autocannon frontal arc is just assumed based on how thick the turret face seems to be
>>65619575I still can't believe we adopted that thing for like a year and dropped it. WTF
>>65619615Because the admin complained it was too heavy for air lift even tho that was never the procurement requirement.
>>65619481>if you're planning to suicide against ChinaFtfyI still don't get why some of you think that the US would dare do anything beyond selling the Philippines some F-16s and maybe 40yo Abrams that were salvaged from the boneyard
>>65618031Ukies actually did make a tour of captured zigger equipment around Europe in 2022
>>65619683Didnt they send some equipment to the us and there's a t60 parked outside a gas station in Louisiana?
>>65619670Becauae china atill has no force projection? If it came to a fight, it would be in china's backyard from the word go
>>65619686I don't know, you tell me
>>65619687>no force projection They can simply nuke whatever they please if they or North Korea are invaded>it would be in china's backyardWhich makes the situation worse>But RussiaThey are the aggressors and thus have no right to use nukes (if they do the UN will order NATO to nuke Russia)
>just nukeLmao
>>65619699Yeah, just nuke
>>65619700"Just" is the most abused word in the english language because it does all of the heavy lifting of practically every sentance it's used in. Saying "just" nuke ignores every one of the many details that would involve coming up to and immediately following using a nuke, which is a lot more important that the thing itself. If china "just" decided to nuke then the US will "just" nuke it back, or may decide to do it first because china can't "just" nuke anything without a long time to prepare
>>65619706>Nuke exchange>Everyone deadSimple as
>>65618886cope
>>65619706The biggest lesson of the cold war is about how two nuclear superpowers going to war is a VERY bad idea which is why we have all this chest thumping and tariff warsLooks like you missed a couple of history classes
>>65619722>chest thumpingThis is why North Korea is so fucking based>The Japanese said something about you?Fly a couple of ICBMs over Hokkaido with no prior notification >South Korea getting uppity?Park artillery right next to the border
>>65618079WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS
>>65621211A sweet ass fuel-efficient aero people mover is what it is.When it comes to moving a kids soccer team interstate at highway speeds for an away game, accept no substitutes.
>>65619615it was also possibly because the contract would have prevented them from getting spare parts from anyone except for the manufacturer
>>65621211I don't know but I want one.
>>65619615>>65619656Booker was fucking retarded. It's a cool vehicle and very capable. It just makes zero sense for Big Army. >>65619656Look at the units it was being sent to >82nd Airborn >101st Airborn >10th Mountain Anyone with a brain could see that the solution they were looking for was a SEA Stryker with a Cockerill 3105 turret (105mm high pressure gun and autoloader). Same firepower, almost the same protection better strategic mobility.
>>65616773Its literally still the most modern tank chassis the US operates>>65617424Wrong, it's there to keep tank designers employed and up to date. If you let them all get fired you have to start from scratch
>>65617424First, it was designed and built before they nuked their economy by invading Ukraine. Russia was booming before 2014. Second, although they will probably never get it into full scale production it's a useful technology incubator and demonstrator. So you may see stuff developed for Armata trickle down into T90s or whatever.
>>65617995It wasn't supposed to have the drum when they first designed it. They wanted to ditch the carousel design because it imposes strict ammo size limits and they also wanted to use a much bigger 152mm gun. They couldn't get a new auto-loader system to work, so they went back to the carousel and that why it still has the 125mm gun.
>>65616773>Implying it was captured
>>65621857The fuck is this?
>>65621873just some TDS
>>65621873gulag children forced to trick or treat
>>65616773>40 year old tank>UNKNOWN TECHNOLOGY, блять
>>65619686Old news, but yes a T-90A was captured in Ukraine, sent to the US in 2023 and it ended up in some Louisiana gas station stop briefly.
>>65621873The child front and center with Trump for the Halloween party was dressed as a Russian soldier
>>65618143but can they really do anything about that? I assume that newest equipment that Norks have may look like Western one but I have feelings that where similarities are ending, I have doubts that they have technology that could produce anything similar, getting advantages of weak spots, maybe?They don't have any drone warfare equipment there so they are still be not knowing that.
>>65622430>I have doubts that they have technology that could produce anything similarBlow out panels, spall liners, fire suppression systems, that sort of thing. Getting a good look at how an modern isolated turret bustle stowage system works would be handy just by itself. The fact that Russia uses autoloaders means that they don't have some of those systems so the Norks have no modern examples to work with. >They don't have any drone warfare equipment Oh hell yes they do, they have a whole institute and service branch for it and up to date ongoing combat experience.
>>65622458>Blow out panels, spall liners, fire suppression systems, that sort of thing. Getting a good look at how an modern isolated turret bustle stowage system works would be handy just by itself. The fact that Russia uses autoloaders means that they don't have some of those systems so the Norks have no modern examples to work with.Don't Chinese have any of that technology at least something that they could copy instead of expensive af Western equipment?>Oh hell yes they do, they have a whole institute and service branch for it and up to date ongoing combat experience.I meant in tank they got, like counter equipment.
>>65616773They're OrksThey'll weld farm ploughs and rocket launchers to it
>>65622549China does but they share with the Norks willingly and their stuff is copies as well.>I meant in tank they got, like counter equipment.They have jammers that worked OK in Syria and the new tanks have some sort of APS.
>>65621585>Look at the units it was being sent tofull order of 1000 units was going to be spread across 10 infantry divisions, with an MPF battalion at the divisional level and then platoons distributed to IBCTs in fieldit only needed to be as airmobile as an entire division, and you could fit 2 of them in the same space as M1 abrams, which was what the program specified
>>65621682I didn't know Stephan Seagull was in Quake III
>>65618548Do the early models have rubber skin, (theoretically) enabling ziggers to spot them easy?
>>65623022anon, please update your filename.The correct name is:>slicing and eating the pie.webm
>>65623701"MEAL Team 6" is also acceptable
>>65623454They don't look like proper humans but neither does the real Boris Johnson.
>>65619481>The Booker was designed to be attached to IBCTs and provide fire support without infantry units having to call in mech unitswhy not just take a humvee and slap a 105mm recoilless on it then
