what stops armor from simply bum rushing an artillery position?shells take 30-60 seconds to get on target by then a tank going 45miles/hr will already be past the blast zone.
>>65616649This assumes the enemy does not also have doodz between you and their artillery
>>65616649>what stops armor from simply bum rushing an artillery position?under normal circumstances, this is exactly what will happenNATO wargaming estimated artillery can only inflict 10% K or M-kills on assaulting soviet artillery positions even with concentrated attack, allowing armor to displace artillery however, both attackers and defenders know about this weakness, they have access to the same technology and forcestherefore, the defender will keep their own armor in position to defend artillery from enemy maneuverwhat then occurs is called "tactics" and "maneuver" in which both attacker and defender constantly move and block each other from achieving an advantageous positionthe attacker may succeed in outmaneuvering the defender and defeat artillery as intended but the defender may win the game of positioning and force the attackers into an area where they cannot avoid the artillerythere seems to be a strange way of thinking, that battles are decided as a series of hard counters being played in succession to each otherthe equivalent of thinking that a game of magic the gathering is simply a chain of responses to individual cards, creater -> doomblade -> mana drain rather than as a full game with large decks and hands
>>65616658This plus throw in smart shells
>>65616649Arty is behind the front, you have to push through the lines to get to them.Also most arty has direct fire capability so if there is a lot of tubes the armour is going to die.
>>65616722>Also most arty has direct fire capability so if there is a lot of tubes the armour is going to die.artillery firing directly are already doomedsince if they are doing that, then the tanks attacking them are also withnin direct fire rangethey might get a few of them, but theres a good reason anti-tank weapons exist rather than relying solely on artillery to beat themarmor rushing down artillery is a very real, very likely event which is why the defenders will send out their own armor and mech infantry to cut off the enemy movement
>>65616730That's why I stipulated a lot of tubes.If 1 tank gets through to 20 tubes it's probably dead along with 12 tubes, if 10 tanks get through to 20 tubes the arty is fucked.
>>65616649all the other people in between your tank and the artillery, pretty much. This is one of the doctinal uses of armor to exploit maneuvers and a pretty good reason of why tanks aren't going away just because drones exist.Ukraine actually demonstrated this back in 2014 when they used armor to out-maneuver the separatists and relieve pressure during the fight for the Donetsk Airport.https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_of_the_95th_Brigade
>>65616649>simply bum rushing an artillery position?If you're a rich country you're using a lot of self-propelled artillery these days
>>65616649>what stops armor from simply bum rushing an artillery position?Drones.Tank spotted by drones km's away. Balsted by artillery while the drones correcting it. Proofs??The Ukrainian Counteroffensyf that is blinted by drones and artillery.
>>65616649The fact that even the dumbest of third world militaries have a somewhat functioning brain [citation needed] and will at least usually make a token attempt to put something in front of the artillery to stop this sort of thing.
>>65616649This is how tanks countered WWI trench warfare meta and we got Blitzkrieg WWII.
Worst board on this website delete this thread you fucking faggot
>>65616649>what stops armor from simply bum rushing an artillery position?Land mines
>>65616649
>>65616649I suppose tanks aren't enough to soften whatever is between your tanks and the artillery position (recon, at units, armor, towns, geography) so at the basic level your armor units can't rush by themselves without having their own artillery and mechanized infantry to help you
>>65616730>>65616733>artillery firing directly are already doomedsince if they are doing that, then the tanks attacking them are also withnin direct fire rangeThis is not always true. In the Iran-Iraq war Iraq lost several tanks that they had presumed were outside of direct fire range just to get sniped by Koksans that were several times their direct fire range way.
Artillery is surprisingly effective against tanks, even more so in the modern age, due to the external devices such as optics, aps systems etc becoming disabled or destroyed from near detonations. Lasers, optronic scanners and miniature AESA radars for APS systems look cool in peacetime but they will quickly turn into scrap in a real warzone due to the persistent probability of sudden high velocity fragmentation rain. Smaller caliber fast firing indirect HE (76 mm and up) with delayed fuze concrete piercing shells or regular HE with delayed impact fuzes will even make a mess out of an abrams because it will punch trough the 30 mm mild steel hull and turret outer armor and detonate inside the armor array. This wont destroy the tank, it will just cause big gaping holes in its armor, and any prudent commander will send it rearwards for repair. Tracks and engines (in particular cooling systems and fuel tanks) are another weak spot of tanks. The ukies lost 10% of these french armored cars they got in the first days of their kherson offensive, one of them was destroyed by a near miss by an artillery shell that killed the crew and wrecked it despite its STANAG level 4 protection. The thing with russian artillery shells is that they are oldschool designs that doesnt turn into high velocity dust puffs like western shells optimized for maximum numbers of tiny fragments. They produce a spectra of fragments and the larger ones are so large that they are a threat to lesser armored vehicles. Because of the shift to air power for everything starting with Vietnam, western armies have no real artillery competence, and even the russians, who take pride in their artillery, are pretty much retarded.
>>65619384sensor destruction is cope from people who cant secure direct kills, the only thing that matters
>>65616649During the battle of Verdun the Germans fired 2.400 Shells of artillery DAILY at French position. Do the math how large of an area this daily artillery barrage covers. Now factor in the tanks slowed down by minefields, anti-tank obstacles or areas inaccessible for heavy vehicles and then consider the artillery hiding behind its own tank and infantry forces.
>>65619483now factor in that the soviets were able to sweep past german artillery, mines, anti-tank obstacles, infantry, and everything else to force their way and encircle german units, artillery and allthe armor combined with the speed of tanks allows them to push through well protected areas and then move to a position that forces artillery to re-locateartillery isnt stopping enemy attacks by itself, it pins the enemy down so that your own forces can move to engage them, but artillery being able to defend itself using only anti-tank obstacles is a fiction
>>65619491The Soviets suffered 300.0000-500.000 fatal casualties fighting Children, cripples and elderly people, many of which didn't rven have a rifle, while having total armored and air supremacy. That is hardly sweeping through, the Eastern Front was a slow meat grinder and meat grinder even when the German military ceased to exist as a functional military Force. Your example is that of a superior Force simply zerging an inferior militard (well, at least by 1943 the Soviets were decisively superior). It wouldn't work between equal forces, yet alone against an enemy that is actually prepared for defensive war.
>>65619510>the Eastern Front was a slow meat grinder and meat grinder eventhe eastern front was characterized by massive mechanized assaults with multiple encirclements, allowed by the speed of armored forces, occuring in 43, 44, and 45artillery was the one being forced to keep up
>>65619384>>65619387>The thing with russian artillery shells is that they are oldschool designs that doesnt turn into high velocity dust puffs like western shells optimized for maximum numbers of tiny fragments. They produce a spectra of fragments and the larger ones are so large that they are a threat to lesser armored vehicles. >high velocity dust puffs like western shells And you were doing so well until you went off into retarded zigger territory.
>>65616679>Obsoleted by drones
