>>65616391
20" with a 1:7 twist. You will never square off against anyone, let alone anyone with body armor. Your body armor will never be shot at either. Stop overthinking it.

>>65616391
20in barrel with the right ammo can push through some lvl3s, but its more useful if you are reaching out 400+yards, bullet will get there faster with less drop

if you pan to do all your shooting inside 200y, 11in is fine

>>65616391
just use 7.62X51

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>>65616745 >>65618488

>>65616397
I really hope you’re right, and you probably are. It’s a hypothetical apocalyptic scenario though, anon. Like what if the clankers are wearing body armor? They already have chainsaws.
>>65616406
>7.62x51
I have a bolty in .308
From what I understand, .308 isn’t even that great for level IV.

>>65616391
>24-26" if you're a velocity/ballistics autist.
>20" if you want to be able to use any ammo to its max effectiveness.
>18" for people who want a 20" but claim its too heavy for them and that their precision build is just fine with a shorter barrel (they are coping).
>16" for people who couldn't afford an SBR before AR pistols became common and now they want to pretend that their rifle is still relevant (they are also coping).
>14.5" if you want the perfect balance between performance and size.
13.7" ideal for Vietnam-era larping.
>11.5-12.5" general purpose rifle that doesn't get too long when suppressed.
>10.3" for CQB only, also great suppressed.
>shorter builds for fun gimmicky guns.

>>65616391
>If a 20” barrel can’t even push through plates, is there even a real point?
M193, when shot out of a 20" barrel or longer, will go through NIJ level III plates.

>>65616413
>It’s a hypothetical apocalyptic scenario though
Oh okay, I'll help you consider things that'll never be a real concern.
>From what I understand, .308 isn’t even that great for level IV.
None of the full-power/standard-action cartridges do well against NIJ level IV when using steel-core AP. However, now there is a tungsten-core AP, which definitely can defeat NIJ level IV, plus we'll soon get commonly available overpressure rifle ammo to pair with that tungsten ammo. If you really that worried about level IV then you'd consider a magnum cartridge like .300 WinMag, .7mmRemUltraMag, .338 Lapua, and get some tungsten ammo for those.

>>65616391
Fuck dude in the thumbnail I thought this was and kind of MAS gun.
Neat.

>>65616745
>plus we'll soon get commonly available overpressure rifle ammo to pair with that tungsten ammo
Elaborate?
Out of all those cartridges, which is the cheapest to reload?
What if you just go for the legs? Then there’s no point in AP rounds, right?

>>65616745
The problem with this retard's statement, is that he doesnt consider suppressors (something else that's been fortunately deregulated) and tuning. if you're doing serious shit, get a suppressor, even if 5.56 is a velocity based round, and as such a round you shouldn't go subsonic
24-26 inch barrels are memes. no one uses them except for varminting. do not use these.
20" is nice and what the cartridge was originally designed for, but it's pretty much for unsuppressed use. not bad, mind. also, it's easiest to tune, and feels nice if you're using it in a ar, which you probably should be if you're normal. it can probably take a bayonet, if you're in a normal state or nation
18" guns are your first suppressor viable length. not preferred, but its got the benefit of being still able to use rifle length gas systems, and is still comfy. are they perfect? no.
16" is the standard. it's the perfect length that the 2nd best gas system for tuning (Midlength) is at it's ideal dwell time, and has the second highest amount of ballistic data. also can mount a bayonet, and with a 4" can is only 20" long out front. not bad, and importantly, is still a rifle, for if things unfortunately backtrack. cope all you want, it's got a spot still, and importantly has plenty of data and barrel profiles for it, if you want a light and handy or frt favorable gun, and with a Lpvo.
14.5" is nice. it's got everything you want from 16" and is still suppressable. tuning's ok. last stop of a general purpose rifle, but that's not a complaint, just a observation. it's fine, just would rather a 16"
11.5-12.5 is ok, it's mostly the last stop of the still sane and tunable. at this point, your sacrificing all velocity to be handy. this isn't a bad thing, but it's too much too far. great for suppressing.
anything shorter then 11.5 is going to require significant tuning, and velocity sacrifices that you're better off going to 7.62x39, or .300 blackout instead. don't use these.

>>65616927
I saw that too. Needs a spike though

>>65616982
>Elaborate?
Those Federal steel shell cases being loaded to 70k PSI rather than 60k PSI, the NAS3 cases being loaded to 80k PSI, and SIGs blatant rip-off of the NAS3 patent and their new SIG Hybrid ammunition also being loaded to 77k PSI. This tech might be useless for magnum cartridges, but it's proving to be pretty nice for improving the external ballistics of standard action cartridges.

>>65617020
>The problem with this retard's statement, is that he doesnt consider suppressors
Hello, illiterate retard. I specifically mentioned suppressors in the comment you were unable to read but decided to respond to anyway.
>18" guns are your first suppressor viable length... and is still comfy.
LOL LMAO, if you use a suppressor on anything longer than a 14.5", you are a masochist.
>16" is the standard. it's the perfect length
LMAO x2, the only reason anyone ever bothered with 16" ARs is because of NFA laws. Now that anyone can SBR their guns, it's a completely worthless length, and anyone with half a brain cell will get a 14.5" over a 16".
>cope all you want
I'm not sure you know what "cope" is. If you're fanboying over a length that never should have existed in the first place, it's not others that are coping. Your dogshit length only exists because laws restricted people from getting a superior 14.5".

>>65617020
>24-26 inch barrels are memes. no one uses them except for varminting. do not use these.
It's the real zero-compromise peak velocity that 20" proponents regularly wrongly claim to be associated with, as pointless as that is.

>>65616391
The point is that you get NATO's cheapest mass-produced offering.

>>65616391
20" - Just as it was intended
14,5" - Second acceptable length

The rest is marketing or a LARP. A small percentage of users need special lengths and are able to justify it technically and make use of it. The vast majority, just simply want something special.

>>65616397
>20" with a 1:14 twist.
ftfy. no need to thank me.

If it's over 10 it does the job just fine with appropriate loads, rest is angels on pinheads.

>>65616391
14.5 has the most military development and has tons of optics tuned around it, but it's at the edge of shooting like complete shit. 16 mid shoots nicely and has quite a lot of bullet development for it as well, though it's not as fleshed out as 14.5 or 20. 20 is optimal for range and of course velocity as well as being the softest shooting mainstream option. If you want the best AR shooting experience and aren't too concerned about anything else, look no further. On top of that, it's well supported by the optics and ammunition markets. 5.56 will never really be AP without black tips unless you're fighting some retard that bought steel armor. Furthermore 5.56 is a terrible suppressor round as the only subsonic load available has a muzzle energy comparable to 380 ACP. Also the AR in general is a bad suppressor host due to a myriad of reasons, main ones being a lack of an adjustable gas system and the fact a lot of gas leaks out from the gap between the upper and lower. For those two reasons anything shorter than 14.5 is retarded as their main selling point is to have a reasonable OAL with a suppressor. The only exception being the Kitty Kat or similar ultra stubby ARs that have a form factor akin to an MP5, mainly because they're cool and funny

>>65616402
11" is perfection. Leaves a lot of room for a can should you be so inclined.

>>65616745
>13.7" ideal for Vietnam-era larping.
No Vietnam era AR15 pattern rifle had a 13.7" barrel though. That length literally didnt exist prior to 2010

>>65616391
There literally exist plates rated for taking a Barrett M82 at point blank, you can't fret over that shit too much.

>>65617547
No kidding? I didn’t know such a thing existed.

>>65617639
They're very heavy and bulky, and that's their limit, an M2HB or GAU-19 would have more barrel length and get a lot more velocity, so it wouldn't hold for them.
I don't think they're even widely available just because they are of dubious practicality, I think they were called Goliath plates or something.

Point is, someone will always make a stronger chest plate.

>>65616391
20.5"
>>65616406
7.63x52
Checkmated.

>>65617692
>he doesn't use a 21" barreled 7.92x57mm rifle
Fucking larper.

wow

Fuck that. Best barrel length for 300 Memeout?

>>65618447
Velocity maxes out at about 9-10" or so, and should give you a pretty thorough and clean burn. The cartridge is really maximized for short barrels and suppressing.

16" barrels are around though, basically because of SBR reasons only, and I believe one anon on here actually managed to track down a rare 20" barrel. He had put together an A1 clone, and he really liked this rifle, and he also wanted to hunt with it, but because of gay state laws he couldn't shoot durr with a 20" .223, so he built it in .300
I imagine he might actually have seen a small drop in velocity given how all the powder would have burned out halfway down the bore already, but it'd still do the job.

>>65616391
Okay you must be the guy from /arg/.
1. M193 out of a 20" will pierce many steel Level III plates, but not all, and likely not "RF1" plates under real world conditions under the new standard.
2. M855 out of a 20" will pierce the vast majority of PE plates, III or RF1.
>>65616413
M61 / M80A1 will get you through most and some, respectively, IIIs, but to beat IV you need tungsten .308.
>>65616745
Only steel IIIs for M193. PE can handle it just fine.
>>65617674
Adept Colossus Heavy and EDUN GA-8 are current examples. Gilliam Arms has flirted with the idea of a 9-10lb .50 AP stopper.

>I believe one anon on here actually managed to track down a rare 20" barrel. He had put together an A1 clone, and he really liked this rifle, and he also wanted to hunt with it, but because of gay state laws he couldn't shoot durr with a 20" .223, so he built it in .300
Based anon making .300 Super Ultra Short Magnum killing forest rats even less effectively due to the government’s specifications

I am so astounded how much mainstream discussion in the gun sphere revolves around armor. It might save your life from a single opponent firing one or a few bullets if you are lucky enough for them to hit your chest. Given the unstated but assumed Balkan war shtf scenario everyone believes they’ll be in, getting hit at all anywhere else is essentially game over even if it doesn’t kill you quickly or at all. I hate it.

>>65618510
>t.dead in the streets poorfag

>>65619489
>>65618510
Wowie

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>>65619586 >>65620107

>>65618510
armor matters, a lot.

>>65618510
Those are all post-2020 gun owners
Nothing will ever actually happen

>>65619537
Helmets matter more desu

>>65618510
its the same as the decades taking caliber wars over differences of max 10%. Theory wars and consoooming are easy. Practicing and seeing the big picture, the forest for trees, is hard.

>>65616745
NIJ 0101.07 specifically requirea you rate your plates against M193 and M855 you larping retard. The only plates you could POTENTIALLY defeat are old, turbo cheap, steel, 0101.06 rated plates. And the idea that tungsten AP ammo will ever be available in remotely useful quantities is a complete and total lark.

>>65616391
There is no ideal length. M193, M855, and Mk262 were all designed for specific barrel lengths, 20", 14.5", and 18". Just because you have "more" barrel, doesn't mean you will have "more" betterer performance.

And trying to defeat armor in a single shot will always be a pipe dream. It can't be done. .277 fury cant, old ass .30-06 +p+ DU AP can't fucking do it, so stop being retarded. 14.5 works really well in a lot of cases, 16 with a mid length gas suppresses beautifully, 11.5 or even 12.5 for something short. Just buy the right fucking ammo.

>>65619601
>m855
14.5 didnt exist when ss109 was deveolped though

If you're that worried about plates then get a .22-250 or something like that.

>>65616391
>muh plates
aim at their cock retard

>>65619654
SS019 and M855 use different propellants you dumbass newfag. Christ, even the Euroniggers who use M855 have different loadings to suit their service rifle. Meanwhile the M4 and load for M855 was designed concurrently, such that the M4 could get 90% of an M16a2 while being a pound and a half lighter.

>>65616391
>push through plates
I thought the idea of 5.56 was fragmentation on soft targets, which only happens above like 2700 ft/s or whatever i forget, and then also lightweight, capacity and low recoil with a modest effective range

>>65619601
>Just because you have "more" barrel, doesn't mean you will have "more" betterer performance.
Are you retarded? A bullet requires a minimum velocity threshold to perform as its creator intended. A longer barrel guarantees that threshhold at a slightly longer distance. Hell your own post proves it...
>Mk262 was designed for 18"
The 77gr ammo is often considered the best option for all those 10.3-12.5" barreled guns, yet it was intended (and ideal) for an 18" barrel (despite all the LARPing retards claiming otherwise). Are you retarded enough to believe that MK262 will somehow perform worse in a 20" than it does in an 18", or do you understand that a longer barrel gives you more options?

>>65619489
Probably, but that that results from not having Level VBGTQIA+++ armor is less than insignificant over the not having friends, family or community network in the big igloo

>>65619537
What’s pic from

>>65616391
In the real world anything over 11.5” and you start getting diminishing returns unless it’s a dedicated DMR build with an 18” barrel. Assault rifles were supposed to be improved submachineguns, and making them overly huge defeats the purpose.

>>65616391
You can do just as much with 6" as the bigger ones do. Some might even say that's still too much.

>>65620170
>having 2 feet of effective range and a rainbow trajectory is a good thing
manlet award

>>65620558
You can kick doors with 20” if you want but some people want to jerryrig an AR15 to do the larp

>>65619601
>And trying to defeat armor in a single shot will always be a pipe dream. It can't be done.
Dude just reload M2AP at 3,300ft/s and you'll clear most IVs. .300 winmag and a 26". Hesco 4403 and 4800 fail at 2,950ft/s in Buff's testing. NIJ requirement is only 2,910.

>>65620558
Good to know 5.56 out of my 11.5" is turning to dust at 50 yards. Thank you anon, I will go build a 26" now.

>>65618447
I'd say 10.5" maybe. You can't think of 300 Blackout like a rifle cartridge, it's essentially a pistol cartridge that fits the AR-15 action well. So barrel length doesn't pay the dividends you might expect past 9 in or so. Although for me, I like the 10.5 because it doesn't make the front feel cramped.

>>65620756
Unironically do it

>>65620056
It was. In 1963. The last part of your sentence is still true so that's why it's extensive development over the decades. Nowadays, you don't need fragmentation, just a good hollow point or soft point of appropriate length for your twist rate.

>>65620558
Modern bonded 5.56 ammo is effective out to 200 yards from an 11.5” carbine. 20” ARs are for poorfags who only can only afford 55gr and fell for the fragmentation meme.

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>>65620558
>>65620858
just get a 14.5 with a k can so you can use everything in it

>>65620081
No fucking shir you get slightly more velocity, but is 5% more velocity better than a 20% reduction in weight in combat? Speaking from experience yuh clearly lack, no. I'll take a lighter M4 over a heavier M16a2 every fucking day of the week.

And Mk262 was literally designed for the MK12 you leering retard. The original biggest complaint people had about Mk262 was, was that it didn't do well ballistically out of a MK18 because holy fucking shit, it didn't meet its bare minimum velocity threshold being designed for a barrel with 50% more length in conjunction with a fucking can. Nevermind the velocity difference of an 18" barrel vs 20" when shooting MK262 is a whole 15 fps.

15

Fucking

Feet per second.

Do you understand the meaning of "designed for" or are you some poor retard who thinks M193 is the end all, be all of loadings? You don't need to answer, we know you're already reaching the lkmits of yohr comprehension trying to understand the enlish langue when yoh don't even know bog fucking standard industry technical data for 5.56

>>65620741
Yeah, sure pal, let me carry around an 80 lbs M2A1, my 30 lbs tripod, and 40lbs ammo can into fucking combat, as Chris Kyle, our Lord and Savior intended. I'll be clearing buildings in style after my arms blow out, at least Illness be defeating plates in a single shot instead of, god forbid, shooting them literally anywhere fucking else. Assuming the shlt they catch to the plate doesn't knock them the fuck out, because turns out getting shot hurts like a bitch.

>>65620818
Most .300 blackout loadings achieve full burn at 8". The one good reason to go longer on barrel length is the afore mentioned railestate, but smart buildout of a rifle does wonders when trying to build as short a rifle as possible.

>>65621062 >>65621062
>No fucking shir you get slightly more velocity, but is 5% more velocity better than a 20% reduction in weight in combat? Speaking from experience yuh clearly lack, no. I'll take a lighter M4 over a heavier M16a2 every fucking day of the week.
Well, you illiterate retard. My first post, the one you took offense to, said that 14.5" was the perfect balance between performance and size, so if you're now whining that you'd rather take a 14.5" over a 20", then we are somewhat in agreement, as I'd rather take a 14.5" over a cope 16" and a cope 18".
>we know you're already reaching the lkmits of yohr comprehension trying to understand the enlish langue when yoh don't even know bog
Criticizes someone else's English. Misspells a ton of words in the very same sentence. This is hilarious; keep going, you retard.

i don't know if you can even pop big boy level 4 plates with tungsten penetrators out of a .308.

accept that you aren't going through plates with 5.56, it's just not meant for that.

>>65621062
>lbs
Youre not american

I can’t believe how many people act like they are ever going to be in a firefight. I just like tossing my gun into a kayak and heading out to some distant lake shore to blast trash.
SHTF ain’t happening bros. Just enjoy the hobby.

>>65621106
The Hesco 4403 and 4800 both lose to steel core M2AP 50ft/s above spec. Tungsten M993 can challenge many IVs around 2,850ft/s, XSAPI required spec is 3,050+-50.

>>65620107
Dude got pulled over, cop was writing him a ticket or something for expired plates or w/e guy pulls out a Deagle and shoots the cop center mass with it. Hits cops body armor. Doesn't die. Cop pulls out his gun, Deagle guy dies.

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>>65624283

>>65618510
plenty of people have survived limb shots without modern hospitals, its not always ideal but its not a death sentence
few have survived a shot to the heart

>>65621062
>as Chris Kyle, our Lord and Savior intended
Chris Kyle shilled the MK12 and 5.56 incessantly.

>>65622425
>Chris Kyle shilled the MK12...
He also hated how the one he was issued was semi-auto only. He'd grab the MK12 upper and M4 lower to get full-auto again.
>Chris Kyle shilled 5.56 incessantly.
I mean, not really; his favorite guns in service were both of the .300 WinMag guns he was issued (likely a SOCOM MK-13 and an MK-13 Mod 5). He also mentioned how he wished he had used his .338 Lapua more often.

>>65621733
Not with that attitude.

>>65617355
checked, this

>>65621062
Homes just buy a BC-8 or a cheap savage

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>>65624283 >>65624741 >>65624997

>>65616391
Plates don't matter.
This is a training issue.
Adjust your POA on armored targets.

>>65622418
>>65624273
If you get hit in picrel you will have minutes before bleeding out. Unless you have a tourniquit and preferably quickclot you aint making it to a hospital. And you aint going to be combat effective.
t. former TCCC

>>65616391
60" barrel with a 1:1 twist

>>65624273
A pelvis fracture is a life altering injury and it’ll probably drop a man instantly but if youre close quarters he still has a moment to gather his wits and return fire if there’s no follow up to dispatch

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>>65616391
whatever works best with a can, 14.5-16 max with a k can. as long as it's under 20in and doesn't weigh a ton it'll do
>>65624273
just wear picrel everywhere, remember to add soft armor in the joints

>>65624741
Life aint perfect, and that wouldnt be no different from punching through a plate and hitting a lung.
You can shoot him in the face in the triangle between the eyes and nose instead for an instant lights out if you are good enuff. Aint no armor covering that.

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>>65625249 >>65625293

>>65616391
Seeing someone use my rifle Pic for this thread makes me feel good about myself. Here's the same one with a 10rd mag you filthy animal

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>>65625241
It's a weirdly nice feeling. I think it's a sign that you've "made it" here when someone reposts your rifle. I've had my galil, calico, and zpap reposted and it's legitimately an intoxicating feeling to know someone thought my gun and pic was cool enough to be worth saving and posting

Just buy guns that are fun

>>65625241
Is the front sight too high for that lower cheekweld?