can someone explain why this (or a clone of it ) isn't being mass produced right now ? >full auto with manageable ~300rpm >close to no recoil >large mag this seems like a no-brainier to deal with FPVs
>heavy>unoptimized>cheaper, lighter and more effective options already exist next dumb question
>>65610342Yet the AK is still being manufactured Curious....
>>65610344ok
>>65610342>more effective options already existno they don't, at best you see guys with semi auto shot guns most of them are pump action and russians are using double barrels
>>65610338Because its shit. It has low recoil because it weighs as much as a SAW and has capped ROF. If you want something thats lighter and fires faster, youd use an AK shotgun, one of those turkshit AR shotguns or a Benelli clone. Which incidentally exactly what both the russians ands ukrainians do.
>>65610338Because the video games lied to you.
>>65610338the issue with hitting flying targets is that humans are pretty bad at estimating range and lead, you dont become a skeet shooter overnight especially when the skeets are flying right at you and will explode when they hit younow, the solution is to remove human error by letting a computer do the math and letting radar judge the distanceand then you can put it on some kind of stable mount, so you dont introduce random error from your weak human handsand since its now been stabilized, you can make it shoot really fast to improve hit chance and while you are at it, if you really insist on using the eyeball to look at the targets, you can add a thermal sight of some kind to increase contrast against the sky because even the coolest running drone will absorb some heat through the plastic chassis
>>65610401Having automated anti-drone gun turrets on vehicles would be ideal, but it's thus far proven impossible to create targeting software that can get the job done while reliably avoiding friendly fire. The problem is that there's an increasing use of drones that lurk on the ground and then suddenly take off and attack when a target gets close. The drone threat isn't just coming from above, where you could easily pick it out against the sky, it's also coming from low and to the side, at basically the same positioning relative to the vehicle as nearby infantrymen.
>>65610338>close to no recoilUnless you are breaking physics or venting shitloads of gas backwards via muzzlebrake, you're going to have recoil.The AA-12 just weighs a bunch.
>>65610429it use a long recoil with no hard buffer for the bolt it is essentially constant recoil weapon like the Ultimax 100, there is no impact between shots but a constant pressure allowing for accurate automatic fire https://youtu.be/u3LCOonSLXo?t=716
>>65610433>Has no recoil>Visibly rising like a motherfucker in his arm, the weight of the gun itself plus him being on TRT being the only things stopping it from rising furtherLMAO
>>65610435>hold full auto shot gun with one hand and sideways >lol the muzzle is rising do that with a saiga and watch it fly out of your hand after 1 shot
>>65610441>Lighter gun that's basically a jerry rigged AK firing 12 gauge recoils moreNo shit?
>>65610424>while reliably avoiding friendly fire.its been known for a whilethe russians already have APS that can detect and destroy dronesand even if you dont trust automated systems, having a computer to automatically account for deflection and a thermal sight to know where to look sure beats using the mk1 eyeball and your best guess
>>65610442yeah the AA12 is a vastly superior gun than anything used right now
I think every "Shotguns VS Drones" person should watch this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mORdXxZ2uKUA world champion shotgun shooter takes on FPV drones. And the end result is "Theoretically plausable, but practically no."Even in best case scenario (You have an excellent shooter with custom shotty, who knows that the drone is coming and from which direction it's coming and is expecting it) the chances of actually hitting a drone which is doing it's terminal approach dive is iffy at best. Can be done, but really only in aforementioned situations, and even then not consistently. Now, make it a live combat situation where your adrenaline is pumping, the drone is coming from uncertain direction and is actually trying to kill you and you know it... Yeah, most people (even well trained soldiers) could not score a hit that would effectively stop the drone before it gets too close. Shotguns VS drones is, as said, theoretically plausable but not in reality a practical solution. Certainly not enough to warrant expensive auto-shotties for every squad.
Boomers still think there is a high tech solution to fpv[Spoiler]there is none that works[/spoiler]
>>65610448It certainly isn't superior in terms of weight, weighing 2 pounds more than a Benelli M4 or a Saiga (8-8.5 lb vs 10.5-11lb for the gun alone).Assuming the same weight budget as an M4 + 7 mags (about 13lb before attachments), you can carry literally about twice as much ammo by taking the lighter gun. Given that these are shotgun rounds which are fucking heavy, you have enough spare weight to carry maybe 2x8rnd stick mags for the AA-12, versus twice that for a saiga or upwards of 40 loos rounds for the M4.>>65610450The funny thing is that the moment soldiers got the sort of olympic level training that would be necessary to semi-reliably down drones, we would start to see a lot more kill footage from drones with directional frag warheads that shred people from 20-40 meters away. Part of the reason why drones have remained relevant in Ukraine despite constant countermeasures is that it is really easy to vary their designs slightly to deal with a new countermeasure.
>>65610462Yup. If shotguns would be effective to down drones beyond 15-20 meters, drones would start carrying some kind of shotgun-esques grape shot charges that shred you from 30 meters. We already have drones like these, they would just become moreprevailent.
>>65610485Accept the robot overlords
>>65610494this is one of the craziest video of the war
>>65610385This.(applies to half the OPs on /k/ Catalog)
>>65610338They nerfed it in MW3
>>65610338Why not minishells? Stoppan powah doesnt matter, you just need some pellets to hit
>>65613383Don't minishells have major feed issues? I'd assume you would need to build a gun with the express intention of using them.
>>65613427>major feed issuesSounds like an incredibly simple problem to resolve
>>65610338destructive device.
You just need to make a launcher fitted for smaller drones. If you can track and shoot a heli you can shoot a drone. I guess the main problem is building little baby missiles.
>>65610338It was a giant piece of shit that only worked with one specific load made by one specific company. Anything else and it would jam every single time. This was like 20 years ago so I forgot the specifics, but the owner of the company had cases of it stacked floor to ceiling in his office. The fact that they spent 50 years trying to sell it to every single military and LE agency on Earth who would listen to them and got precisely zero interest should tell you everything you need to know. Even places like Saudi Arabia and Malaysia that buy stupid meme guns to flex said no thanks.
where are you gonna put those mags? they're huge.
>>65610338There's a reason this is literally the only photo of someone in uniform firing one.
>>65610344AK variants are the best service rifles being made currently.
>>65613701>It was a giant piece of shit that only worked with one specific load made by one specific company.It worked with specific sharp-rim hulls made to cope with the shit extractor. They could have loaded those hulls with whatever powerful slugs or weak birdshot you wanted and it should have cycled those fine and been a versatile weapon, but the logistics of needing those proprietary hulls instead of just having a decent extractor and shooting the entire world's supply of 12g was absurd.
>>65614628>a versatile weaponA 17 pound shotgun is the polar opposite of a versatile weapon.
>>65614685I dunno, at 17 pounds it can double as a boat anchor. I'd call that pretty versatile.
>>65610433Here is the better solution This thing https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZEBL3IvOR6MOnly chambered in the 4.5x26R round.
>>65610524Don't forget the motto of this war>then things got worse
>>65610494>>65614930These shaped charge drones are obviously not intended for meat targets. They were just diverted to whatever target was available within range after their original mission got finished by other drones.Creative use of resources though, that double kill better be worth a lot in their score system.
>>65614399Kill yourself, faggot
>have to carry an additional weapon on top of all the other shit a modern soldier carries>have to carry 12 gauge ammo which takes a ton of space>low magazine capacity unless you're carrying drum mags which requires an entire backpack at this point.223 anti-drone ammo is superior is superior in every metric. Ukrainian soldiers usually mix anti-drone and regular ammo in the same magazine so they can quickly engage both drones and human targets without having to switch weapons or magazines.
>>65614949There's the smallest one I know of which is an EDP-S which only weighs a kilogram and throws a 160gm penetrator I guess the anti-infantry versions are just much the same principle either employing a forward facing sleeve or something akin to a fun-size claymore mine
>>65614997afaik anti-infrantry stuff is basically just flying anti-personnel minesbut those don't see much action since they were designed to fuck up a whole bunch of zigs but that level of force concentration is history at this point
>>65610338>this seems like a no-brainier to deal with FPVsYup...
>>65615002Dual purpose seems to have been the trend for the last couple of years, which is just the EFP with a frag sleeve and whatever you need blown up from a light vehicle to someone's drunk uncle who signed up, it does it all.Either Putin pulls the pin on more drafts over the next 2-3months to get the meat or they'll never really have the critical mass to take much and so far it seems Ukraine has found some ways, in some circumstances to get rid of the ones and twos that end up dug into little basements. Like its bad enough being short on dudes in a defensive situation, but if you're short on dudes while on the offense, its opened them up to counter attacks due to lack of depth and meaningful reserves. My bet is he just lets rip on the drafting and just doesn't tell anyone how many orcs he caught and being Russian's are massive cucks they won't say or do anything
>>65610494Is that an ukie?
>>65610354Western forces are using anti drone bullets that work in assault rifles, actually. One guy has them loaded at all times. He can switch to regular bullets as needed.
>>65610494>>65614930damn. That sucks.
>>65610401Stop mentioning skeet shooting. It has nothing even close to shooting down drones. - Drones don't come from a pre-set direction;- Drones don't follow the same straight flight path;- Drones don't fly with with mostly same speed;- Drones aren't made from clay and thus aren't as brittle;IRL a drone is maneuverable instantly accelerating flying IED made from fuckin' carbon fiber and shit, which is actually quite robust and not brittle at all.
>>65610338The whole backstory behind this stupid thing was funny as fuck. I don't even remember all the details but one of the hillbillies making them got pissed off when the other hillbilly sold his half of the company to some other guys, so he ratted himself out to the ATF and told them they'd been operating without an FFL. I don't know what he thought would happen, but they both wound up in federal prison last I heard. A whole lot of retards put a $3,000 down payment on a semi-auto version and got left holding the bag too.
>>65615064no, they're next years ukranian field fertilizer >>65615385I enjoy the silly shotgun shoots, but they're a nice open field. You've had a few cold drinks, its sunny or at least not inordinately uncomfortable and you can go out there to do some blasting.Now, as anyone who's been deployed will tell you. Most of the time you're humping shit around, carrying 100lb of shit on your back, wearing about another 50 worth of armour and rattle, you're tired, feet hurt, its too hot, cold, wet, dry, I'm thirsty and everyone else is just as fed up. Then you have contact and a split second to get your fucking shit together, figure out the direction, numbers and if you're lucky, won't be dead in the next half second.Drones are guided missilesThey work in the dark, they're very small, don't get tired and there's some lucky bastard with his PS5 controller in a bunker somewhere, feeling comfy, got some drinks, and he's just out there to do some blasting
>>65615385>going through life being this retarded Just....damn.
>>65610338>opening a new small arms production line during an existential warThey would rather produce more drones, glide bombs and cruise missiles.
>>65615891Lol, he probably heard of druggies ratting out their dealer & walking and thinking he would get the same.
>>65616566the AA12 isnt even manufactured in ukraine, its from an american companyand opening new small arms production lines isnt such a ridiculous concept that you would never do so, its been done several times beforethe real reason nobody produces the AA-12 is because there just has never been a market for ityou cant shoot drones down with them because humans lack the necessary aim and reaction time to reliably shoot drones down, every video you see of someone doing it is a fluke that only occurs when a drone is on the terminal descent and the guy was just lucky to have his gun pointed at the drone in the 2 seconds it was within their combat range
Turd world squabble and drone faggotry aside, we almost got them in 2018 from sol invictus arms except for massive retardation and the atf shut it down for using "original full auto receivers that were then welded and re-machined to semi auto function".Retards botched the release, whichever faggot owns the rights now could produce and sell them and an FRT could be developed. Closed bolt, 18.25" barrel, 38" OAL, 10.5lbs unloaded - 2lbs more than a basic unconverted, rail-less and unloaded saiga 12 whoopty doo
>>65617337>sol invictus armsWas a vaporware scam from Day 1. A couple of anons who really should have known better got suckered in too. $3200 down the drain. No refunds.
>>65610338Obligatory.
>>65619038Not sure why it is slowed down.
>>65610338But is is in production right now?
>>65618567This is the letter full of bullshit they sent to people who were hounding them for refunds. That case involving the very large customer's Black Friday sale they mention on page 2 was that whole mess with Stag Arms selling knockoff Raptor charging handles back in 2018.
>>65610338All the people in charge kept getting merked in MW2 by it so they decided to not adopt it
>>65615385>carbon fiber and shit, which is actually quite robust and not brittle at all.jesus christ what a low effort shill.
>>65620855maybe they were thinking of fiberglass?but even then, most drones are just plain plastic and millimeter thick aluminum
>>65620857we're being flooded with ESL thirdies with bad english. theyre "doing the needful" by just saying stupid shit for engagement quotas.
>>65615891IIRC he was also using old uncomplete receivers from the old shop that had basically had its lights shut off and left alone since the original AA-12s were made. Dumbass who sold his half of the company ratted on him having kind-of finished ancient receivers laying around in decent numbers and ATF threw a shitfit and wanted all the semi AA-12s that were sold that actually got out as they were totally le machineguns guize. No fun allowed.
>>65613383Mini shells have less range and pellets.
Ukrainians use the Turkish automatic shotguns and they find them not more effective than pump action ones. Actually if I recall they find double barrel best in most scenarios.
>>65610338I never understood the soifacing over these when the USAS is an improved version of the same goddamn gun designed by the same guy and made by an actual firearms manufacturer. And even then, Daewoo didn't make that many of them because it turns out the market for a giant "full auto" shotgun with a slower cyclic rate than a semi auto Benelli is vanishingly small.
>>65622317>What works best for clays and skeet works best for FPVswow
>>65614628Why would you design a shotgun around some weird proprietary shells? Were they greedy/stupid enough to think they could get buyers locked into an additional contract to provide ammo for it?
>>65610344I still blame obamna and sleeper joe
