I don't understand why they designed it this way, I don't understand why they published a video of it.
>>65602657likely didnt account for the concussive effect of the muzzle brake but then i dont understand how such a thing gets over looked by an engineer
>>65602657>I don't understand why they designed it this way,Because it's scary as a defender of a position having twice as many rounds heading towards you plus putting more rounds down range on a singular vehicle is what everyone wants out of an armored vehicle. That all being said, is the vehicle itself an accurate platform? Fuck no
>>65602668>it's scary as a defender of a position having twice as many rounds heading towards youIsn't having 30mm rounds raining down on you at 550rpm be enough to get your head down? I don't really get why you'd want 1100rpm in exchange for significantly decreased accuracy.
>>65602668>>65602682The Terminator doesn't fire both guns at once. It has two different autocannons because Russia apparently can't into dual feed mechanisms, so each autocannon has a different kind of ammo in it.
Someone pls redpill me on guns that don't shoot accurately.
>>65602710just needs a sound effect that door stoppers make and this webm would be pure gold
>>65602724>>65602710*TWOIIIIING*
>>65602700Is of great SPAAG platform, cumratLess accurate=more chance to hit something in a big swarmWe don't talk about singular, comically slow targets
>>65602687based. America should sell them the tech in the new tradcon christian global alliance
>>65602753>what is this fuddlore, the 2A42 is literally dual feed by default.Some people say each gun has different ammo and only 1 of the guns would ever be firing at one time. Like HE & AP, vid rel.
>>65602753>the window for fire is small so a high rate of fire is necessaryWhat the fuck is this ridiculous cope? This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
>>65602736Uh... cumrag vladiromivitchovitch, what if we hit single thing in accurate manner? Then do it again? Then swarm is of dead, da? Because all parts swarm be have cock in ass?
>>65602657>I don't understand why they designed it this wayBecause it's the best they can do.>I don't understand why they published a video of itMe neither.
>>65602667Major things slip through the design phase all the time, this should have been caught on the prototype.
>>65602765The 2A42 is normally dual-feed but for whatever reason they're converted to single feed on the BMPT.Packaging would be my guess.Really I think Algeria has the right idea with just slapping a berezhok turret on the T-62. BMPT as it stands is an abject waste of a T-90 hull
>>65602753Yeah, and their helis shooting their own noses off with wobbling autocannons is also by designSomething something hit yourself so others will be afraid>>65602773Cumrag, are you perhaps of implication that our great, no analogovnet in the world wobble system is in fact not great? Immediately report yourself to the high command for your punitive broomhandling session.
you see tovarich, when shoot all over place, more likely hit enemy!
>>65602657Their design bureaus were stupid, tehy were more focused on playing political favor games instead of making a gun that both works and can actually hit a target.
They are wh40k orks, but they clearly lack the faith in and support of Gork and Mork.
>I don't understand why they designed it this wayYou can say that about anything and everything soviet.
>>65602753>what is this fuddlore, the 2A42 is literally dual feed by default.The gun can technically do dual feed, but not inside BMP-T. It didn't have enough space to put in the dual feed system inside the vehicle.
>>65602668It only fires one gun at a time lol
>>65602753Yeah it's a coping thirdie
>>65602667I don't think that shake is down to the muzzle brake.
>>65602668>heading towards youWell yeah. You know what's not nearly as scary? Rounds heading towards your vague postcode. Inaccurate fire does not supress.
>>65602687Oh no, it's even more retarded than that. The gun does have dual feed on the BMP-2/3. But the designers just wanted twin guns on the BMPT at any cost. So to make them fit into the turret, they had to rotate them 90 degrees to the side, which ends up blocking one of the feeds. So now it has two guns, but each can only loads and feed a single belt at a time.
>>65603257>wanted twin guns on the BMPT at any cost>space issuehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-30-2
>>65602878It's crazy how heaven and earth had to be moved for the BMP-2's moderate unfucking of the ongoing BMP-1 incident. People were absolutely dug in over it's retarded potato gun
>>65602687lmao 2A42 and 2A72 are dual feed capable guns, BMP-Ts are just exceptionally retarded
Semi related but did we ever find out the reason for pic rel? I heard theories saying manufacturer defect or reinforcement for barrel sag.
>>65603572Shit manufacturing
>>65603572shitty manufacturer or acceptable manufacturer depending on the design specs.the bore not being perfectly centered in a barrel is normal though most cases arent that extreme.
>>65603572good enough; time to clock out
>>65602667Smekalka school of engineering
>>65603572yeah
>>65602667the shaking has nothing to do with the blast from the other gun, the barrel is simply too flexible and need bracingRussian are just retarded
>>65603596So how would you draw a triangular cross section?The off center bore is 100% shit manufacture.
>>65603621>The off center bore is 100% shit manufacture.And yet the cutaway illustration shows it's even more off-center towards the middle.
>>65603648That's the triangular section.
>>65603557Lost technology
>>65603651Huh.Is that a shoulder thing that goes up?
>>65603271That's a nice gun you got there. They didn't use it.
>>65603665Obviously, that is the point. They had a perfectly acceptable weapon that actually does what they wanted with much less space taken up.
>>65603673seeing that the gun was produced for the Su25 it's probably no longer being build and tooling was probably sold long time ago lol
>>65602657Tanks in Chechnya kept getting hit with RPGs from rooftops and basements where the main guns couldn't reach, so they built a tank with an autocannon that could fire at rooftops and basements. That's about the extent of it.
>well understood the BMPT was conceived in response to vertical attacks from AT teams >have a gun dedicated to firing armor piercing I feel like HE would be more than enough to attack buildings and mountain pillboxes. The tanks it's escorting could have the fire power to get anything the HE autocannons couldn't.
>>65602667the muzzle break doesnt help, but even a single 2A42 autocanon on a BMP-2 wobbles like crazythis is a solved problem, you just need to put braces around it, like in the Ukrainian BMP-4, i dont know why the russians dont do it
>>65602710hehe-he-heBOING-OING-OING
>>65602657Because it's unironically better for its purpose than perfect accuracy. It may surprise you to learn that NATO autocannons are not perfectly accurate either.
>>65603007that CEP is not measured in meters, its measured in Oblasts
>>65604328>Soviet designed autocannons need gun cope cages to shoot straightRussia really just cannot do any shit right, can they?>>65603257jfc see above
>>65604342lmao no
>>65604356
>>65603271>>65603665>>65603673>>65603687GSh-30-2 has a barrel life of 1000 rounds per barrel in an air cooled installation. That's marginally acceptable in an aircraft but absolutely wildly unworkable in an AFV.
>>65602657He’s just like me
>>65603687>>65603673>GSh-30-2 has a barrel life of 1000 rounds per barrel in an air cooled installation. That's marginally acceptable in an aircraft but absolutely wildly unworkable in an AFV.That is something i had not considered. Why is the barrel life so low? They fire the same round, why is the barrel life of the GSh-30-2 so low? Is it an issue where they just can't make that many GSh-30-2s?I have pondered something like this regarding the Nork twin 14.5mm mounts, assuming they had enough electrical capacity they should be able to fit a rotary 6x14.5mm in there.
>>65603687It is still produced, it is their primary aircraft and AA 30mm gun.
>>65604705Higher rate of fire, lighter weight (so less thermal mass). Because it's a gast gun, you can't easily make a weapon like the GSh-30-2 fire at a slow enough rate of fire for normal AFV use without impacting reliability, so your minimum rate of fire would be near the normal maximum rate of fire for AFV autocannon. For the same reason, you also can't independently fire the barrels and the GSh-30-2 doesn't support dual feed for either barrel as designed, so you'd have to shoot AP from one barrel and HE from the other during every engagement if your system needed both capabilities. If you're at the point where you need a completely new barrel that's heavier, and either completely new action that can shoot slower and shoot independently or a completely new feed system that can support dual feed for each gun, then nigga wtf are you doing with this gun at all? I kind of feel like your fetishisation of Nork repurposing of things often leads you into thinking weapons would be good or useful roles for which they're not very well mechanically suited, and often barrel life plays a prominent role in that.
>>65604705>something like this regarding the Nork twin 14.5mm mounts, assuming they had enough electrical capacity they should be able to fit a rotary 6x14.5mm in there.And in answer to this, one sincerely doubts they can engineer a decent one. The GSh-30-2 itself arose out of the USSR's inability to make an acceptable gatling cannon.
>>65602765That angle makes the right muzzle flash seem like the Spiral launcher is a gun firing.
>>65604705Doesn't have multiple chambers for heat sink. I have a suspicion the opersting internals are taking a beating at that ROF also, barely treading the line between being overbuilt and being light enough for aircraft mounting.
>>65604348It's russia, they don't do "straight" there.
>>65604705>Why is the barrel life so low?That's a pandora's box you don't wanna open. 1. Literally all soviet weapons which had any modicum of stress on them have shitty barrel life, which includes auto-cannons, tanks, artillery and so on.2. Yes, this includes things when they actually try to get better barrel life. Often they do not even try because of "soviet military science" (vodka and buttsex infused nerds obsessing over numbers) approved doctrines and such. Kinda like why many soviet tanks can't drive for long —"hurr-durr why bother investing into it, our calculations show that tanks lives on the battlefield for 5 minutes on average, there's no sense to try and make it more robust." Yes, that's real soviet logic. 3. The organic reason is tied to shitty soviet industry and material science. Soviet metal is just bad. Always has been. Because soviet economy put the focus on making more in raw numbers and quality was a non-existent and non-quantifiable parameter for them. Yes, really. That's how some cars would be pushed out of the factory without parts and such - the raw "produced" numbers mattered and that's it. So when the metal is bad and the industry sucks your gear sucks. Simple as that. Fun fact: when ruslims shot down MH17 over a decade ago, one of the key elements which tied soviet AA as being used for this was the special metal shrapnel used in the AA missiles, not only them having a distinct shape but the metal composition of those shrapnel pieces, since the metal was very distinct as shitty soviet steel, which could be compared almost like a digital fingerprint, and nobody in the normal world used it.
>>65603778The BMP-T has less elevation than the BMP-2 does.
>>65604372thought i was the only one that noticed this canned response in every video that aligns with vatnik talking points
>>65604710What AA guns would those be?Because AFAIK GSh-30-2 was only used on frogfoots and the Hind-P
>>65604751>>65604762>>65604858>>65605159Thank you for your well explained and detailed explanations. I was wondering about the Nork obsession with 14.5mm Gatling guns.
>>65605159Oh fuck i just got it. The Norks can make new rotary gun barrels in large numbers but Russia can't. WTF‽
>>65606476Algeria wins again
>>65602657>I don't understand why they published a video of it.it's not for you, it's for the dumbasses that know nothing about it
>>65610012 BMPT-62s are fucking awesome, beside needing a bit of turret armor they are in the top 10 best T-62 variants. They also show off how big the T-62 turret ring is.
>>65610228It certainly seems more worthwhile to Algeria than the 300 or whatever insane order than put in for the original recipe.Isn't 115mm getting a bit thin on the ground anymore as well?Might be the path other T-62 operators take.
>>65609740Russia and USSR struggles with making "good" because of underlying culture and retarded system.
>>65602954wtf
>>65610322We have such sights to show you.
>>65610329>we designed it wrong on purpose, as a joke
>>65604500>1000 round barrel lifeIt probably well exceeds the estimated life of the vehicle
>>65610329This a giant vehicle IRL, right? Right?
>>65610402Yeah sure, anon. It's very roomy, and they can all get out easily.The funny door and hatch arrangement is just to cover the two.. erm, beds in the rear. Yeah.Very comfy, you sleep very well on the engine.
It sucks that it sucks because rule of cool should trump all else and the terminator is awesome. >>65610416It's like one of those fucked up frogs that lays eggs through it's back
>>65610416>clown car, the IFV
>>65603572>did we ever find out the reason for pic rel?Shit manufacturing. Plain and simple.Drilling deep holes without the drill bit wandering off-center and cutting curved holes is surprisingly difficult and requires specialized equipment.The problem gets worse for long barrels with small bores, since the depth of the hole relative to the bore size is much greater, and the drills can't be as rigid.So drilling the gun tube of a 100mm howitzer with a 3m long bore (30 calibers) is a lot easier than drilling a 2.5m long barrel for a 25mm auto-cannon (100 calibers).The holes ending up somewhat crooked and/or off-center is to be expected, there are manufacturing steps that can and should be taken to compensate for this, so that the final bore is straight.Whoever manufactured this just didn't care enough to do it properly, probably to save time and money because doing it the right way takes a lot of time.Shockingly, the bores being bent or off-center doesn't really affect cold-bore accuracy as much as you'd expect.Bent bores can have drastic effects on the barrels of automatic weapons, as the point of impact can shift dramatically when the barrel heats up and the steel expends at an uneven rate, effectively bending the barrel while the weapon is in use. The longer and thinner the barrel, the bigger the issue.In the days of military bolt action infantry rifles, virtually all rifles were manufactured with wonky bores, and the factories just bent the entire barrels to compensate for it.So the bores would be straight, even if the bores weren't properly aligned with the exterior walls of the barrel.It worked well enough on bolt actions that were expected to shoot like 5MOA, and that didn't get as absurdly hot as belt-fed full autos.In modern barrel manufacturing, this issue has mostly been "solved" by using alternative methods to simply avoid having to drill perfectly straight holes to great depths.
>>65602657
Friendly reminder that russian auto cannons have such wobbly barrels that their finest and most modern helicopters sometimes accidentally shoot themselves.Seriously.They "fixed" this issue on the export models by just bolting a big fucking bracket to the muzzle of the guns, rigidly affixing them to the fuselage of the aircraft, which in turn caused a whole different set of problems.They never bothered to retrofit the "fix" to their own fleet of helicopters.
>>65610416Does anyone have a webm for a BTR-60 or 70 dismount?Because that shit is atrocious.
>>65610440>Keeping the sample stick outside, where it can collect dust from the road/windWouldn't it make more sense to keep the stick inside the vehicle (or at least in a case of some sort)?
>>65602667>i dont understand how such a thing gets over looked by an engineerThe good old school of "fuck it, leave it as is" dealing with major setbacks, regular obstacles and minor inconveniences threatening your deadlines.
>>65610329Fits more people that way.
>>65610329You don't understand, it's just playing with your eyes, there's a ton of space there
>>65610329Well, on one hand, the "high floor" part above the engine there isn't where the passengers are supposed to sit, they go further forward in the vehicle.On the other hand, that section is how they're supposed to get in and out, which is certainly... unorthodox.
>>65610630It's so fucking obvious that whoever pushed for this to be the replacement for BMP-2 had no experience on mechanized infantry.
>>65610630Is the BMP-3 the butthurt BMP-1fags way of putting the BMP-2 guys in the rooster corner for daring to try to unfuck their shit?Why did they decide to build it out of a canceled rear engined light tank?
>>65610642>Why did they decide to build it out of a canceled rear engined light tank?Because it was cheaper to whip up something "new" from crap they already had.
>>65603572>>65603591>>65603592>>65610452it's like that on purpose, BMP barel aren't fluted and don't have a composite shroud around the barrel it keep it stronger, so to take in account the heat spread and recoil they made one part thickeryou can see in the diagram here >>65603596 (on the muzzle part) that a part of the barrel has more material than the other.
>>65610642No. It's literally a shitbox built out of the BMD after they realized they couldn't keep building the BMP-2
>>65611272It's based on object 685.The shitbox made out of BMD is the sprut.
>>65602883Shoigu and Gerasimov, the one is corrupt but retarded and the other is retarded but corrupt
>>65610322>>65610329>>65610630The bmd-2 is much worse somehow. The egress hatch for dismounts is this little bullshit mail slot. The top hatch of the engine can also fold up and put to make egress easier, but they don't ever seem to use it based on the photos/videos we have from ukraine
>>65602657>I don't understand why they designed it this way2 gun look cool and scary
>>65610533Too clever not to at least get a reply
>>65610470The way the whole heli wobbles the gun is only partly to blame :)
>>65603572You'll get that sometimes, on them big jobs.
>>65610329How many corpses can you stack in there 3 or 4 per side?
>>65613563>You see Ivan, the helicopter wobbling counteracts the gun wobbling, making it shoot with pinpoint accuracy
>>65610533i want to be the guy with my legs around the turret ring
>>65614061How does the guy behind the driver get in/out?
>>65610329>>65610329same as it ever was
>>65602682>decreasedAre you so sure of that? There's videos of regular BMP-2 cannons wobbling too. What if this is just a barrel harmonics issue instead of an interference issue?
>>65614222Both feels plausible with the way those dongs jiggle
>>65614650Truly, the heights of literary translation.
>>65610634It's even funnier that they managed to cram the already 10lbs of shit in 5lb bag that is the BMP-3 into a 1lb BMD bag.It must be fucked up in there
>>65617625rolling firework
It's called barrel harmonics.
>>65617631And an expensive one at that.Little more than a million a pop.About twice the price of a brand new BMP-3 and who knows how much more than a hypothetical less retarded BMP-2 successor
>>65603151>>65603604It may not be the primary reason but muzzle blast is definitely contributing.
>>65614087Squeeeeeze
>>65613993>resonance interference wobble adjustment
>>65617625At least the armor is good and strong.
>>65619684What hit it? A nokia dropped from orbit?
>>65621596Going on a wild guess here, but by the absolute peppering of anti-tank mines, it was probably a mine.
>>65621624Well, that's a reasonable take and all BUT a little cheese button on the road isn't enough to vaporize most of the vehicle. Not even the worst russian tin can.It must've been carrying hilarious amounts of explosives.
>>65619684I really want to see a sprut-SD get it.An entire carousel autoloader in a BMD hull.Imagine the earthshattering kaboom.
>>65610292>Isn't 115mm getting a bit thin on the ground anymore as well?Surprisingly enough new and modern 115mm sabots are being made in Belgium and the UK of all places, probably for people like Algeria. From the performance of them i strongly suspect they just made bigger sabots for standard 105mm or maybe slightly smaller ones for 120mm. >>65610299They also never really did rotary guns; besides naval mounts (adopted late in the game) they either went with twin guns or gast guns for aircraft. It must be some Soviet factionalism thing, i can't think of any twin AA gun that would not be better in almost every way if it were a Gast gun. Higher rate of fire, more sustained fire ability and they are ALOT smaller. Some of them are smaller than traditional autocannons of the same size.>>65604500About 2000 and they fixed that for ground attack on the Mi-24 with water cooling.>>65610440So fucking stupid, you don't need a robot arm like the Fox to do that without opening the vehicle up. A clean box with gloves on the hull rear or door would work just fine, you could easily retrofit existing vehicles. >>65610470You can see where they had to patch it because the muzzle gasses were eroding the skin. >>65610630They needed it to to be amphibious and wanted to fit in waterjets without lengthening it to keep it air portable; this is almost impossible to do without itr being cramped. The only reason Nork light armor like 323s have relatively roomy interiors is because they lengthened them as air portability is not a requirement and would be highly inadvisable in their situation.>>65619684It burned really badly. It has an aluminum hull, they melt. Notice how all the aluminum road wheels are gone but the steel drive sprockets are intact? Somewhere there is a clip of some poor bastard crawling out of one while the hull drips white hot aluminum on him.
>>65603572Arnt all aks are like this so it's difficult to get a proper suppressor on them?
>>65604344Kek
>>65621848More or less.AK were originally not intended to be suppressed.The thread on the end of the barrel was only ever intended to hold a muzzle brake or a blank firing device, it didn't need to be straight or concentric with the bore.It would have been a pointless waste of time to put a bunch of effort into doing that at the factory, so they just went the easy route.
>>65602667You would be amazed what shit manufacturing practices and a lack of quality control can do to an otherwise perfectly fine design.Or they ran out of money and skipped building prototypes, which is also a real option.
>>65622362Funnily enough, the BMPT was initially rejected for being retarded but uralvagonzavod just wouldn't let it die and kept it on as a private venture.It pretty much only got adopted in tiny numbers by the russian ground forces much later in hopes of stimulating export sales.
>>65621764Happens semi regularly when a shell-fetcher gets unlucky.I believe there was a particularly impressive one starring an MTLB
