Trvke or cope?
cope because you can do both and should do both
>>8059676
>>8059676Retard take. Rockwell and all his peers during the golden age of illustration used reference as a large part of their process, even going so far as to create their ideas in a photo shoot first. I also see a lot more artists who never draw from reference than those that do.So I agree with neither position put forth.I will say, I think it's important to have enough visual imagination to be able to come up with your idea first -- if the artist doesn't know what he wants, how does he know what his reference should be? He'll be a slave to what he finds, rather than really creating anything.
>>8059679so what phase is this now for the Tats?
>>8059676checked out his account yesterday and his art looked like poop smeared on a canvas
>>8059684go to his website. one of them caught my eye and i went "oh that one is kinda nice it has energy and interesting forms" and i checked, its a fucking study of a painting from 1600, which he is selling for 50$. he doesn't even follow his own advice and honestly? he could use it. he should also learn to fucking draw cause throwing down muddy and vague forms does not help you improve and looks only good to suckers and the person who made the painting
>>8059676Cope, and I say that as somehow who primarily draws from imagination.>>8059681>I will say, I think it's important to have enough visual imagination to be able to come up with your idea first -- if the artist doesn't know what he wants, how does he know what his reference should be? He'll be a slave to what he finds, rather than really creating anything.Had a professor tell my class pretty much exactly this.Where you also in one of Dale's classes?>>8059683"The Nazi's were right and were actually the good guys"Only a matter of time before he flops over to something else. Pretty easy to keep changing sides when you don't believe in anything to begin with.
The way to draw something best is to make it up. Here,have my Creativity Grind:https://youtu.be/1OSWR7xiQLk?is=6HUNLXRSGR5zoAa2I really should do a Real Drawing of this thing to illustrate my point, pardon the pun. Maybe I will start a thread for those who try it, to see what they can come up with.
>>8059676It is true that drawing from reference is a crutch for 99% of artists, it takes legitimate skill to translate the information in an image onto a canvas with your own ideas intact and even with examples like Rockwell or Disney they took their own photographs and videos to use. That being said "getting out of studycel mode" is crazy. You need to build a sufficient visual library to draw from to break away from references in the first place.
>>8059676This anon is correct. >>8059681Especially for beginners. You need to build a visual library, if you can't sufficiently draw from reference, what makes you think you could draw well from imagination?
>>8059676mostly cope, the majority of artists will half ass something from memory before admiting they don't know how shit looks like and making their own refs
Where did the idea that you can't use references come from?There's a near infinite amount of reference you can find, for free, instantaneously, of ever angle of every person, body part and object that exists on this planet.Just drag the images in Pureref and draw whatever you want.
>>8059676You can use references to create something new this push to draw everything from imagination/memory is a meme
>>8059679His characters look like the puppet from that Interpol music video. Negative appeal
people who can't draw from imagination call it a meme as a cope
>>8059676The internet now is just non-stop ragebaiting engagements in any way conceivable.
That guy attributes his own shortcomings onto a baseless 90% majority. He's coping.
>>8059676retarded take but that's to be expected from some faggot on twitter
he is lying and crabbing because he cant even copy a painting and does a lazy sketch reimagining. its sour grapes essentially
>>8059869
>>8059755I wish my copying skills were better, the ceiling is so fucking low and i still cant get there
>>8059752cope
he has a point about studycels. draw something meaningful for once. visual library is 90% hot air.
>>8059679Damn, makes u think
>>8059676cope, i draw from imagination out of laziness and my stuff looks kinda bad
>>8059676It depends on what you want to do with your stuff. If you want to draw realistic illustrations you probably need to use references.If you want to draw comics/manga you definitely need to be able to draw from head too.Using references can cost a lot of time so you have to take that into account. Often it's better to just do it without them unless you don't really know how to draw something.
>>8059676My opinion is that this just isn't true
Technical illustrators will prefer references. Creative artists will prefer imagination.
>>8059676>open his shop/website>it's just redraws of videogame screenshots and a copy of RubensNot a single image from imagination. Not one
You have to use refs so the autists don't skin you alive.
>>8059676checked his account and it's a lot studies of old paintings kek guess he was talking from personal experience
>>8059676You imagine a concept, you use reference to make that concept real. If you draw from imagination then you'll lose a value, contour, and other detail-accuracies in your artwork. This is why studio exist: because you need a space to compose your entire concept in reality and put them in your artwork.This is general understanding that is not only limited to painting or other creative output but also life itself: you need to understand what you want and what you dont want in order to understand and move forward with yourself.
>>8059679Norse afterlife was literally the bottom though, it was an endless grey battle.
>>8059676He is realism painter fag... i won't hear anything from him about using reference when he paints everything from reference.
>>8059742Did you even read the OP retard, noone is denying or disapproving of using reference and it's now at a point of near universal approval which is why you see so many mediocre ints never making anything with any sort of appeal which is what he's taking issue with
>>8059676Absolute truth. Creating NEW things adds value to your art. Reiterating existing things is just crap.
>>8059752You are retarded. Appeal can't be rated.
>>8059676That's what I've always done. What's the point of learning how to draw if you need a reference every time? I want to draw shit on the fly. So I always try drawing from imagination and trial and error first.
>>8059676A lot of it is true, but I can't say whether it's just because the internet makes it more obvious. I constantly see poses and designs copied straight from pinterest, even by big artists. And not even in a transformative way. But at the same time, pre-internet people used to copy pictures out of comic books and shit all the time, so I don't know if anything has really changed. I think the internet just adds an element of shamelessness to it, because there's always an available subsect of retard normies to give you validation for it.>>8059734This is why we make the distinction between studies and other subjects. You can copy from reference, and you should. But to call anything you copied the product of 'you' in particular is just cope, which is the issue here. Not for any ethical reason, really, it just makes the art really boring. There's not a million artists out there. There's a million bad copies of a thousand actual artists.
That why I hate artists, you can't do anything you want, you have to follow the imaginary rules they created.
>>8065420You don't have to follow any rules if you're okay with the limitations that your methods can bring you. If you want to draw a pose or something that you can't find reference for, then what are you going to do? Just not draw it?
Single piece that you will spend 60-100 hours on -> needs to be flawless use reference as much as possible but try to improve on it at the leastSketchbook/Animation frame(s) -> rely more on imagination, use reference at the very end to just fix some mistakes so your next attempt at drawing from memory is even better.I think this distinction gets lost in these threads. Bunch of illustrators arguing with people who's longest pieces probably took them 90 minutes.
>>8059676Doesn't matter most of this board can't draw with or without reference
>>8065640The distinction isn't made because beginners will use any excuse possible to justify being lazy. Someone might use a reference on a big fine art painting, sure. But that ain't you. Someone might rotoscope an animation. But that ain't you. Pretending like you are when you clearly aren't is why the conversation keeps happening.
>>8065420I'm pretty sure you can do whatever you want and you don't have to follow imaginary rules you inferred.
I feel like you really should do both. 70% imagination 30% references
