The coolest and most wonderful thing about discussing Indo-Iranian genetics is that you can go around in circles for years on end and still manage to pose as an intellectual ;).The current infighting—both within and outside of "academia"—likely means that the 13 samples from Amjadi et al. are all we’re going to get from Iran in the near future; Afghanistan is off the table for obvious reasons; there hasn’t been any news of successful sample collection in Pakistan since the paper on Swat; and India has become notorious for its glacial pace of ancient DNA research, proving itself to be as fragile and emotional as a 14-year-old, highly politicized feminist—hardly the right temperament for a rational, human discussion on the subject. If you were to fall into a coma for 7 years starting today, you’d likely wake up to find people still arguing about the Narasimhan paper, in the complete absence of any significant new findings. lol lol lol lol
>>18763574A vegetarian diet plus no exercises.
>>18763574ben detto. It is truly exhausting and frustrating to observe a complete lack of progress in this area, I find it incomprehensible that, on the eve of 2027, there are still people attempting to explain the dispersal of Indo-Iranian populations using outdated theories, or theories that make no sense in light of new evidence—driving these individuals to the brink of madness and total schizophrenia. this is particularly true regarding the I2a-L699 lineage, which many in India apparently use as evidence for a female-mediated migration—implying that these lineages were, in some way, "IVC-related" This is, of course, false. New data show that I2a-L699 is clearly a steppe lineage. This is merely the latest tactic; originally, it was claimed that "R1a" had deep roots within the Indian subcontinent. Once that position became untenable, the argument shifted to the claim that steppe ancestry and R1a actually arrived with the Scythians during the Iron Age. Now, the narrative has shifted again: it is being argued that the migration was female-mediated, and that because (MLBA) steppe populations supposedly lack R1a-Z93, they cannot have been the source for the spread of the language into India.>Amjadi et al.Yes, I’ve noticed that this very low-quality, highly sensationalist article is being used as evidence—or rather, as an absolute dogma—to claim an absence of Indo-European ancestry and markers in Iran (and, by extension, in India). Their sample is essentially restricted to the Alborz Mountains—curiously, the region in Iran with the least steppe ancestry—while completely failing to sample the central Iranian plateau, which is where the authors tend to locate the arrival of the Iranian-language speakers. this is a paper of almost zero relevance that contributes nothing of value. it serves only to cater to those who already hold preconceived notions and specific agendas.
>>18763574I don’t understand your point. You surely know that peer-reviewed articles and proper sampling take years, right? So what’s the issue here? It’s not as if Europe were producing a large volume of high-quality work on prehistor at least not regarding the period following the Avar era. so what? Do you think there’s some magical conspiracy hiding evidence of how the Scandinavians built the Indus Valley and elam civilizations?>>18763660You’re back—we were worried. I hate to strip away your aura of an amateur geneticist, but neither you nor any other proponent of the Steppe theory can adequately address my questions. 6/44 represents 13.6% of paternal lineages even accounting for a few atypical individuals with over 20% mixed ancestry also see the even higher proportion of mitochondrial DNA lineages that clearly originated in the Steppes aka T and H.>(MLBA) steppe populations supposedly lack R1a-Z93yeah I hate to be the one to say this, but there is no strict correlation between DNA and language which makes sense, given that language is not inherited via DNA. In a process of gradual admixture, how, then, do you prove that your Andronovo or Sintashta people spoke an Iranian language? You cannot demonstrate that.>to claim an absence of Indo-European ancestry and markers in Iran>very low-quality, highly sensationalist articleAfanasievo/Steppe_EMBA is the True Source. Sintashta/Steppe_MLBA is Noise.The qpAdm Verdict: Afanasievo Passes, Sintashta Fails
>>18763676I am not going to discuss I2a-L699 with you again. At this point, it’s a clinical case, given that you refuse to accept objective, concrete data.>how, then, do you prove that your Andronovo or Sintashta people spoke an Iranian language? You cannot demonstrate that.There are several ways to do this, but I’ll take the bait—just so you can inflate your ego for a few seconds; one interesting way to locate the Proto-Indo-Iranian homeland is to take into account the Indo-Iranian loanwords in Uralic (see the appendix to Grünthal et al. 2022: *Drastic demographic events triggered the Uralic spread*).https://zenodo.org/records/6035900The most curious part is that groups of Uralic-language speakers in the Volga region today exhibit the highest levels of direct ancestry from (MLBA) steppes. Quite a coincidence, isn't it?We know that the Sintashta and Andronovo cultures spoke Proto-Indo-Iranian because, given that the historical cradle of the Uralic languages is the Ural region, the fact that they coexisted and absorbed terms from Proto-Indo-Iranian proves that Proto-Indo-Iranian must have been spoken right next door don't you think? Furthermore, from an archaeological perspective, the Sintashta culture is located precisely in the southern Urals, and the Andronovo culture shows direct archaeological and genetic continuity with the Sintashta.https://share.google/WCMOLYwkDm4BY0ZreWhat does all this prove??? That Pre-Proto-Indo-Iranian developed in Europe and also shares regional innovations with Balto-Slavic. Later, it reached the southern Ural region (the Sintashta culture) and came into contact with ancient Uralic. It was only during the second millennium BC that it spread southward from there. and spare us your qpAdm models, which lack consistency. Don’t come here spamming walls of models you’ve created based on what Vishnu told you.
>>18763701I’m having trouble with the links. for some reason, Can't get the link to hyperlink, anyway just Copy paste it.
>>18763701You just can’t shake that nasty habit of yours, can you? What are these links supposed to prove? An Indian "substrate" in the Uralic languages? Many linguists have questioned the possibility of direct Indian loanwords—unmediated by Iran—entering the Uralic family. The linguistic and phonetic exchange between early Semitic peoples and early Indo-Iranian groups—which is evident in their own foundational texts—is of a completely different order of magnitude compared to anything that could have occurred with the Uralic languages; yet, for some reason, this is entirely ignored Anyway, I’m not going to respond to these random opinions right now. If you have any evidence based on the arguments I’ve mentioned, feel free to cite it.>At this point, it’s a clinical case, given that you refuse to accept objectiveConcession accepted. Why do I always win?also lol >ben dettoI just realized you’re Italian, lol. You’re not even part of the glorious, blond, 1.90m-tall, R1a Germanic-Aryan race, lol. You accuse me of being unhinged, but you’re the one having an identity crisis LARPing as an Indo-Iranian or a Germanic person. What do they have to do with you, my Anatolian friend? You’ve lost, big time. Oh, and stop with the same-flagging we already know you’re the same weirdo who keeps bringing up those random "Aryan" cognates in every single thread. You just copy-paste the same posts over and over, pretending to be someone else. He’ll probably show up here
>>18763713Northern Italy has continuously been one of the richest, most technologically sophisticated, and whitest places in the world for 2500 years at this point. They have better claim to being the master race than anyone else in the world
>>18763713>What are these links supposed to prove?Exactly what you were incapable of understanding: that the Sintashta and Andronovo peoples spread Indo-Iranian dialects, and that the Proto-Indo-Iranian homeland is located precisely in the Urals. Also, curiously, ancestry of the Sintashta type is found precisely in areas where the language and culture are—or were—linked to the Indo-Iranian peoples of the ancient world and those of today; quite something, isn't it? Not to mention that the new samples 133352 and 133353 from Akbari’s paper are Bronze Age steppe samples (haplogroup R-Y40) with full Steppe_MLBA autosomal profiles and a median C14 date of 1600 BCE.>I’m not going to respond to these random opinions right now.So, why do you always end up shutting down discussions? Are you so self-centered that you lack the humility to realize your personal and ideological theories are not necessarily aligned with objective truth—the very truth that reveals any absurd attempt to claim that Indians peoples spoke an Indo-Iranian language during the Neolithic or that Proto-Indo-European originated in India, Iran, Narnia, Skyrim, or anywhere else—is nothing more than a collection of ridiculous, completely baseless opinions?>You’re not even part of the glorious, blond, 1.90m-tall, R1a Germanic-Aryan race, lolWhy aren’t you responding to the points I made above? I never claimed to be Germanic or Iranian (to be fair, I doubt anyone would even want to be Indian or a modern-day Persian anyway)>the same weirdo who keeps bringing up those random "Aryan" cognatesHere we go again: we are not the same user. Just because our opinions follow the same line of reasoning, that doesn’t mean we’re the same person you mentally ill loser with a persecution complex. These threads have really done a number on you, haven’t they?>Why do I always win?Being humiliated by more than one user in every possible thread doesn't strike me as a victory.
>>18763701>The most curious part is that groups of Uralic-language speakers in the Volga region today exhibit the highest levels of direct ancestry from (MLBA) steppesThey don't, the max among them is like 30 percent, its baltic, and extra ehg + wshg mostly
>>18763739Oh you mean swat, thats probably a bride exchange thing
>>18763740Same with the mordvin r1a being pre slavic baltic mostly
>>18763713Thats why semitic is actually native to the middle east whereas indo iranian is obviously intrusive in every way.
>>18763713>>18763676You’re an idiot, and you haven’t contributed anything of value KYS, dasa. your shitty refuted cope theories like yours have no place nowadays, given the vast amount of evidence that completely disproves them and it’s incredibly reductive to even entertain them. As for India and South Asia in general, your claims are absolutely impossible. the Neolithic package arrived there quite late, originating from southeastern Iran. This explains why the samples from the Indus Valley are so heterogeneous, in contrast to the EEF samples>how the Scandinavians built the Indus Valley and elam civilizations?Idk you tell me why won’t Niraj release the samples to the public? why doesn’t he stop delaying this cursed paper once and for all Even that Pontic Greek leftist faggot called out the Indja Academy for being liars, lol. You lot are a bad joke scum.
>>18763676>Elam and indus valleyNot IE, maybe dravidian in the latters case
>>18763740>>18763743I meant "the common territory of the Iranian peoples''I phrased that poorly. Anyway, the rest of my post is correct. Or do you have a counterpoint?>>18763742There is no evidence to support an exchange involving female exogamy. Narasimhan as proof of a supposed "female-mediated" he relied on Y-DNA to assess sex bias. He claimed only two R1a were steppe patrilineal lineages and the other 42 were IVCp, including I2a-L699. That is outdated paper. Even the Q2b in that dataset are likely steppe lineages. The evidence for female bias is weak to nonexi
>>18763740he’s correct tho from what I’ve seen there’s a significant amount of Iranic ancestry, even in outliers with a lot of Steppe-related ancestry. Looks like you’ve lost again, Rasjeh>>18763676>evidence of how the Scandinavians built the Indus Valley and elam civilizations?saar
>>18763708I can open them without any issues what did you mean?
>>18763752>Or do you have a counterpoint?yes, we have our unscientific method of seeing linguistic continuity from genetic continuity.
>>18763757? I’m going to sleep. Maybe tomorrow I’ll wake up feeling better and try to interpret what this "super relevant" post was actually trying to say until then, I’m off. I’m so sleepy I can barely type correctly.
>>18763753Common anthrotard myth from bad modelling, its baltic, and likewise, their r1a is baltic, a lot of whatever indo iranian they have seems to be sarmatian mediated
>>18763757Prehistoric Indo-European language spread is always correlated with genetic spread.
>>18763770sources?
>>18763748>you haven’t contributed anything of value KYS, dasaIt’s ironic—I still haven’t received an answer. Why? You keep changing the subject every single time. *dasa* does not imply any racial category. *Dasa* is a general pejorative term, even in Vedic contexts.>have no place nowadays, given the vast amount of evidence that completely disproves them and it’s incredibly reductive to even entertain them.And that they pass with MLBAs distal sources: EHG, CHG, AHG in a basic outgroup-rotation completely proves ANI continuity The real burden is whether there is ANY evidence on Kurganist side for Central Steppe ever being linguistically Indo-Iranian since the group with highest IVCp-related speaks most archaic OIA while highest MLBA is not even Indo-European>idk you tell me why won’t Niraj release the samples to the public?Do you realize that this isn't how papers are published? Niraj has already made it clear that the samples are of poor quality and irrelevant. Tell me, genius, why do you think thousands of samples just sit rotting away in laboratory spreadsheets, never getting published? Do you honestly believe it’s because of some conspiracy?>>18763750yes, and?
>>18763738Stanislav Grigoriev>This volume is devoted to the origins and early history of the Indo-Aryans. According to the generally accepted theory, they originated in the Eurasian steppe, from where they subsequently migrated to the Indian subcontinent and the Iranian plateau. However, evidence to support these developments is lacking. The author has collected linguistic, palaeogenetic and archaeological data to reconstruct the processes that occurred in the Eneolithic and Bronze Age over large areas of Eurasia, demonstrating that the ancestral homeland of the Indo-Iranians was in Northwestern Iran. From there some migrated to Southeastern Iran, which led to the emergence of Indo-Aryan dialects around the beginning of the 3rd millennium BC. From the middle of the 3rd millennium BC, the migration of Indo-Aryan tribes to the north-east of Iran and Central Asia began, which later culminated with migration to India, as well as to the Near East, Eastern Europe, the Southern Urals and, occasionally, to Southern Siberia.Genetic or archaeological continuity usually correlates with linguistic discontinuity. Only real linguistics has methods to study where a proto-language was spoken, from results of other disciplines either can be or cannot be found matches for linguistic results.Language trees with sampled ancestors support a hybrid model for the origin of Indo-European languages
>>18764398>Stanislav GrigorievIt was only a matter of time before you brought up this "author." Lately, he has become something of a messiah for the Indian and Iranian communities. However, there are significant issues with his conclusions it is a complete waste of time, and perhaps even ideologically driven, to postulate that the Sintashta were Syro-Anatolian refugees, or that the Yeniseian language family also originated in Neolithic Mesopotamia... among a host of other refuted facts, baseless speculations, and delusions. he posits that the arrival of the Indo-Aryans in South Asia occurred via a migration of a mixed-ancestry population from the Central Asian steppes during the transition from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age. He and his cohort seem to have a peculiar, personal vendetta against the Sintashta and Andronovo cultures. Simply recalibrating the dating of certain archaeological sites to the early Bronze Age is hardly an effective way to refute the theory that these populations—associated with the Middle-to-Late Bronze Age (MLBA) were the source of Indo-Iranian languages, culture, and genetics. This author is entirely discredited.>support a hybrid model for the origin of Indo-European languagesYou are likely referring to Heggarty’s paper, but there is a good reason why it was so poorly received—much like previous papers from the same research group that argued for the Anatolian hypothesis. No one in academia today supports an Anatolian hypothesis. The "Steppe homeland" theory has been vindicated—archaeologically, genetically, and linguistically—as evidenced by the limited agricultural vocabulary. The spread of languages and language families has long been recognized as a subject too broad to be addressed by anything short of multidisciplinary study. The expansion of the Indo-Europeans can be observed through genetics and correlates with the dispersal of language and material culture an complete disconnection is exceptional.
>>18764482the model proposed by Heggarty et al. is viable, whether you like it or not.see the Words for "wheel" The wheel has existed since at least 5000 BCE (which is all that’s required to account for shared, diffuse roots across Indo-European languages what about words for metallurgy? That is the central point of Heggarty’s timeline the linguistic diffusion would have coincided with the spread of copper metallurgy. attempting to correlate "language" with archaeological context is a highly biased methodology. Using that same methodology, I could just as easily "prove" that the Roman Empire had computers.
>>18764904nta the philolinguistic dating method is far from reliable it repeats the same unfounded axioms as lexicostatistics and glottochronology.
