>>18763467
You don’t understand the gospel. The point isn’t that Christians are not sinners, but that they go to heaven despite their sin. Now, the question is this: by what virtue, or because of what merit are Christians spared the eternal punishment and welcomed into the family of God? Your great misapprehension is that it is their faith. It isn’t. It’s the perfectly righteous life of Jesus Christ which is imputed to them. They literally “count as” Jesus in the courtroom of God. And because He satisfied the law of God -as well as their merited punishment upon the cross- they are reconciled to Him. He has no more criticism of them.

Now it is true that the vast majority of people will be in hell, but it is entirely untrue that it is regardless of their moral standing. It is solely because of their moral standing that they go to hell, which absolutely all men save Christ have merited by their sins, and it is only when they go to heaven that it is regardless of their moral standing (which in all cases is wretched and evil).

>>18763467
What your very sane argument doesn't capture is the fact that, for a christcuck, being religious = being moral. If God tells you to rape and murder 1000 babies, it would in fact be immoral for you to refuse, in their view. God is the only arbiter of christian morality, and he could one day suddenly change his mind about absolutely anything regarding what humans ought to do, and retroactively condemn everyone "saved". You're supposed to obey him based on fear, and hope he doesn't just change his mind randomly on you even if you follow religious laws to the letter. Good luck, have fun.

>>18763467
Do you even want to praise God for all eternity or do you want to have him distant from you? Because this is what heaven and hell actually means.

>>18763797
It's between eternal church service or eternal flames. The Christian ideas of their afterlife fucking suck

>>18763800
I've just realized, that God's grace can be really frigthening to someone like you.

>>18763802
You know what is actually less terrifying to me? Death. No afterlife, just death. No dealing with either of these things. I doubt God would take offense to that, I'm not afraid of hurting some all-powerful beings feelings

>>18763807
So it's Nihilism.

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>>18763836

>>18763825
Lack of an afterlife does not preclude meaning in your current life. Life shouldn't be treated like a means to an end in the first place.

>>18763830
>Lack of an afterlife does not preclude meaning in your current life.
Then what gives meaning to the current life?
>Life shouldn't be treated like a means to an end in the first place.
True dat.

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>>18763875

>>18763836
>Then what gives meaning to the current life?
To me it's self-evident that life is special and shouldn't be taken for granted. To me, the experience of being alive alone is what gives it meaning. It's like how you can see evidence for God in the world. Maybe God still exists but there isn't an afterlife. I think I'd be okay with that. I think living forever would just cheapen and trivialize the experience. Maybe you get reincarnated, I guess that wouldn't make much of a difference to me.

>>18763467
anyone who gave a shit about morality would not have children. considering that, in their world, spending an eternity in hell is not only possible but very likely to be the ultimate fate of any given person

>>18763842
Many Christian theologians have pointed this out, it's why celibacy is so coveted in the first place. It's meant to show that you are making a selfless sacrifice of your own blood line and personal pleasure in order to reduce the overall suffering of the world.

>>18763467
>If being a Christian guarantees you heaven, then Hell is not a place for sinners, as this implies you simply go there for not following God regardless of your moral standing. This is why Christians have to believe that the only way to be a good person is to worship their God
No, this just means sola fide is fucking retarded and without good deed you're doomed. This is something Catholics and Orthodox get right, good deeds, good behsvior, good manners... Catholics and Orthodox actively make the world a better place, which is what worshipping God means.

>>18763467
It's just a pavlovian self-domestication program.
Good goy? Get rewarded (after you die though).
Bad goy? Get punished (after you die though).
So the cattle will self-correct their behavior, and the j*ws don't even need to have a shepherd or sheepdog physically present to punish them for being insufficiently domesticated. They do it to themselves.

>>18763797
Not OP, but I want yahweh as far away from me and mine as possible.

>>18763842
>>18763843
>j*ws want to cull gentiles
no shit
thanks paul

>>18763843
if only all christians had this mindset, I’m pretty sure they didn’t think it through

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>>18763845
>sola fide is fucking retarded
No doubt.
>Catholics and Orthodox actively make the world a better place
...for browns and blacks, by taking from whites. But since most of the world is brown and black, on average you are correct.

>>18763845
What good deed did the thief who was crucified next to the Lord bring to the table?

>>18763859
He felt compassion for Christ and that's what saved him. Perhaps you should go back to school because this is basic reading comprehension. Compassion, wrongly called empathy in the modern age, is a core virtue in Christian theology.

>>18763863
You are not describing a deed, but an internal feeling. But I'd never send you to school. School is for chomps.

>>18763840
>To me, the experience of being alive alone is what gives it meaning. It's like how you can see evidence for God in the world.
To be honest, I just don't want to kms and without Christ in my life, I'd probably already have tried. He serves as a solid rock to build on. The experience of being alive is just sand.

>>18763875
reality is fucking scary. but I don’t have it in me to pretend there is some guy up there taking care of us all. if there is a god, it must be you and I. that “presence” that animates everything

>>18763877
Just telling you he saved my life. And if you're ever in danger, he might save yours too.

>>18763884
I believed up until the age of like 10. I remember asking the smartest guy I knew at that time why he is a christian and he told me “one day, you’re gonna wake up and feel like you are totally alone in this world. no matter how many people you have in your life, you will still feel like the only person. that’s why I believe in god.”
not long after I did experience exactly what he was describing, but it still wasn’t enough to make me go back to the “faith”

we really are alone because there’s only one “thing” that exists and it encompasses all of reality

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>>18763892 >>18763898 >>18763925

>>18763875
>The experience of being alive is just sand.
Sounds more like a personal problem. I don't think God intended for the experience of being alive to be just sand. I think he wants you to enjoy your life for what it is. I'm glad you found reasons to keep on living, but I hope you learn to find your own happiness someday. Do you think God minds if I enjoy getting high on weed sometimes? Maybe, or maybe he wants you to discover how weed feels, it's part of his world. Who knows

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>>18763951

>>18763889
>I think he wants you to enjoy your life for what it is.

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>>18763899 >>18763951

>>18763889
>I think he wants you to enjoy your life for what it is

>>18763898
is the lesson here that you literally can never get what you want

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>>18763906 >>18763951

>>18763899
>uhhh he didn't mean it like that

>>18763903
lmao what the fuck

>>18763825
Annihilationism*

>>18763505
>Your great misapprehension is that it is their faith.
NTA, but this is poor wording on your part. The NT is replete with references to the fact that it is trust in Christ which saves. Imputation, inasmuch as it may be referred to as such, is credited on the basis of faith. Christ is given to whomsoever shall believe. That is what scripture plainly and openly teaches. Anything further is an inference on your part - made through a particular tradition you have inherited.
>>18763467
Trust in Christ begets a higher, more effective morality in the individual. There is no way to access this superior morality except through Christ. The fact that certain people who claim to be Christians refuse to embody this morality, whilst deeply saddening, is ultimately secondary. The truth doesn't cease to be the truth because a large number of people have ignored it. Nor do its merits disappear because the majority of people scorn them.

>>18763889
Weed is a psychoactive drug that can lead to psychosis even in otherwise healthy and robust individuals. It is, quite frankly, ridiculous to play Russian roulette with something as precious and complex as the human mind.

Even if there were only a 1% chance of inducing a psychotic break through its usage, you would be foolish to take that chance for something as trivial as a mild buzz or a temporary relief from the stresses of the day. This chance no doubt increases with continued usage, which is precisely why people who regularly smoke are such a chore to be around - constantly paranoid, quick to anger, unable to help others or themselves, and wholly unable to experience even the beginnings of peace without their next smoke session.

You're no a soft little fella in a forest greeting mother sun at the beginning of a new day. You're a fallible human-being who needs to stop messing around with poison before it kills them, or worse.

>>18763875
>without the jewish moshiach I'd just sudoko
Cattle probably feels the same way about the enclosure.

>>18763892
>>18763898
>>18763903
>picrels
thus proving that christ and yahweh aren't god, but some typhonic cosmic horror

>>18763947
Always funny seeing gnostics still being around. You are all fully retarded, that's why your ilk never produced a brilliant mind.

>>18764106
Your assumptions reveal more about you than me. I'm as anti-gnostic as it gets. The enclosure is your jewish-induced delusions, not the material world.

>>18763836
>Then what gives meaning to the current life?
What gives meaning to the afterlife if there is no afterafterlife?

>>18763802
An eternal church service (e.g. what heaven is) is not grace

>>18764116
This materialistic cracka over here thinking about the afterafterlife when all my ascended niggas is all about that afterafterafterlife yo fr!

>>18763918
>The NT is replete with references to the fact that it is trust in Christ which saves.
It means only that this is the means of apprehending the imputed righteousness of Christ, not that it of itself properly justifies.
>Imputation, inasmuch as it may be referred to as such, is credited on the basis of faith
It is credited on the basis of the grace of God alone, which also is the sole cause of their faith, and not the operation of their own will. You’re getting close to heresy here.
>Anything further is an inference on your part - made through a particular tradition you have inherited.
The tradition I have inherited this from is holy scripture itself. It is not an “inference”, but the clear and fundamental teaching of the scripture itself.

>>18764387
You're just repeating yourself. Like any denomination, you subject the Bible to interpretation. You were taught your interpretation by another.

What kind of man spends practically every waking hour on 4chan anyway, URCNA anon? Do you seriously not see how pathological you appear?

>>18764387
>not that it of itself properly justifies
A distinction without substance. Obviously Christ is the One who saves; and Christ is necessary to have faith. But the Bible itself nevertheless affirms that we are justified by faith. To move beyond this, to say that we are not justified even by faith in Christ, is to teach something outside of scripture.

>>18764603
>Obviously Christ is the One who saves
from Christ

>>18763797
>Do you even want to praise God for all eternity
why would an omnipotent being want praise lol is he an insecure retard or something

>>18764967
>is he an insecure retard or something
he sends you to an eternal lake of fire if you hurt his feelings so probably

>>18763467
hell doesn't exist, retard.
its not christian.

>>18765147
the eternal lake of fire is ONLY for satan and ONLY where satan gets to go if you manage to make paradise on earth.

>>18764603
>A distinction without substance
I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean, presumably you wanted to say it’s a distinction without a difference but felt compelled by the force of truth not to.
>But the Bible itself nevertheless affirms that we are justified by faith.
Justification is a legal verdict in which the sinner is recognized as righteous. The sole basis for this recognition is nothing about that person at all, because if they were judged on the basis of their own merits they would certainly be dammed. The only righteousness the justified has before God, on which they are justified, is the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. To say that they are justified by virtue of their own faith, as you seem to be suggesting, is to actually preach a false gospel of works righteousness and cut yourself off from Christ.
>To move beyond this, to say that we are not justified even by faith in Christ, is to teach something outside of scripture.
We are not justified by faith as a virtue, and that is nothing different from what the apostle Paul insisted in the books of Romans and Galatians.

>>18765150
Hell exists, retard.
It's not christian.

>>18765166
The Bible clearly and repeatedly affirms we are justified by faith in Christ. Your continued refusal to accept the plain and open word of scripture, out of some relentless need to engage in latterly produced semantics re: forensics, is genuinely remarkable. At this point you are holding the precise wording of your own Protestant confession above that of scripture itself.

To suggest that faith in Christ does not save is incoherent. Faith is not a virtue; it is a mode of being implanted by grace.

I shake the dust off my feet.

>>18765318
Shake it off fool, you are twisting the scripture to your own destruction. We are told we are justified by faith, not once by virtue of faith. On the contrary, “Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.“ (Rom. 8:33-34)

The only reason you would fight me about this is because you object not to the words but to the doctrine, which is the biblical gospel. To substitute Christ with some human action as the virtue of our justification is damnable heresy and the soul that believes it cannot be saved. Your soul is in imminent peril because of the different gospel you have embraced, which is not another.

>>18765420
>I can't fault what you're saying so I'm just going to assume you're saying something else
You're a legitimately tragic figure.

>>18765469
I am faulting exactly what you’re saying.

>>18765420
>we are told we are justified by faith
>faith is a virtue
>we aren't justified by the virtue of faith though!
Do you hear yourself? No-one is saying we are justified by our own merits, but faith in Christ and His merits is nevertheless what justifies.

>>18765491
>I am faulting! I am faulting! I am faulting!

>>18763845
This is what redpilled me on protestantism being false. It really just was a sharp step towards atheism. Rather than being part of your life its just like...a vibe...a word bro. Just say some words and then go about your day. Really was the first step away from Jesus. Allowed people to be "technically" christian. Like a germanic optimization so they could arbeit more

>>18763467
This image is pretty funny. It reminds me of Karen.

>>18763877
>it must be you and I

Exodus 3

God said, “I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you.

This is what you are to say to the Israelites (those who wrestle with God):

‘I am has sent me to you.’”

This is my name forever,
the name you shall call
me
from generation to generation.

Exodus 20

I am
the Lord
your God,
who brought you out of the land of slavery.

You shall have no other gods before

me.

Mathew 22:37
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.


Matthew 16:15
Who do you say I am?

>>18763887
>we really are alone because there’s only one “thing” that exists and it encompasses all of reality

Alone
All one

This is only the beginning, when everythong is void. Allow light to enter the darkness, call it good, and keep dividing.

He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of
all
mankind.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

>>18764814
And a knowledge of physics protects you from physics.

>>18765594
Ironically, you're well on the path to atheism yourself. Not that it matters; Atheist, Catholic, you all go to the same burning trash pit. Tick tock.

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>>18765637

>>18765604
>Just say some words and then go about your day
Woah… you totally just destroyed Luther and Calvin

>>18765635
You're right, they don't even have to do that. Just do nothing (or sin all you want really lol!) your entire life then on your deathbed ask for Christ to let you into heaven and its all good.

>>18765504
Yes I head myself and I actually understand what the bible teaches which is why I understand this is sophistry. Again, the question is what is the ground or basis of our justification. The biblical answer is that it is only the righteousness of Christ and not our own in any way. Faith is only the instrument, created in the heart of the saint by God, by which we take hold of this righteousness. What Anon is actually saying is that not only the righteousness of Christ, but also his own faith is the ground on which God considers him righteous, accepting his personal faith as righteous and worthy of eternal life. He trusts not so much in Christ as in his own trusting in Christ, and that is heresy.

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>>18765674

>>18765637
Yeah, considering this shallow caricature has nothing to do with the Reformation I think it’s fair to say that it is not “what redpilled you on protestantism being false” but you decided you liked Romanism because it’s le based and trad (ignore the pro-gay popes) and oo pretty statues and golden incense censers (just like 40k woah heckin epic!)

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>>18766940

>>18763467
>blah blah blah I hate Jesus
Great, no one cares. Enjoy Hell.

>>18765643
If you cannot articulate your worldview to simple people like me it isn't truth its sophistry. Jesus taught to illiterate retards.

>>18765674
Right, it’s my fault for not writing a lengthy treatise for you that you would ignore, dismiss and insult, not your fault for making pronouncements about “why Protestantism is wrong” while being desperately ignorant about it.

>>18763859
This is a strange outlier gotcha point He would be one of the handful of people that ever existed who were gained faith near the moment of their death.

However that is not you or I. Once you have Faith, you will do Works. Honestly even dividing like them is Protestant brainrot. Its like saying "I'm a good person but don't do anything good but I'm good because I say I am"

>>18765626
Did physics create anything?

>>18765681
>Honestly even dividing like them is Protestant brainrot
That’s a very illustrative statement and it speaks to what I was saying above about imputed righteousness and it speaks why we must not pretend Romanism is a form of Christianity. It is more correct to say that papists do not believe in Christ at all, than to say they believe in Christ and something else. These men do not place their faith in the substitutionary work of Christ at all, what they mean by “faith” is only a bare historical assent that the articles of faith are true, and what they mean by it “justifies” us is only inasmuch as it is a good deed, which is able to stir us up to other good deeds. The controversy was never really about the word “alone”. It is about what the words “justified”, “by”, and “faith” mean. If taken in the Protestant sense, then “alone” becomes redundant, in the Romanist sense, it becomes impossible. Hence it is untrue that Romanists “believe in Jesus”, because there must be a deficiency in the definition of the word “believe” in this statement.

>>18765641
>What Anon is actually saying is that not only the righteousness of Christ, but also his own faith is the ground on which God considers him righteous
Nowhere did I say this. I do, however, regard it as a distinction without meaning in the real, given that we understand the righteousness of Christ through faith.
>He trusts not so much in Christ as in his own trusting in Christ, and that is heresy.
You sound as though you are suffering from religious OCD. To trust in Christ one must accept the validity of that trust.

Your constant need to assume bad faith on the part of the person you are speaking to is disgusting.

>>18765689
>umm so long as I redefine what my opponent means then I can claim they're all liars!
You are without a doubt the worst poster on this board. Pompous, obnoxious, anti-social in the extreme - it would be funny if you weren't always here, banging the same drum. With that in mind, it becomes merely pitiable. The phrase "misses the forest for the trees" was invented for wretches such as you.

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>>18765687
John 1:3
All things through auto emerged.

>>18765850
>redefine what my opponent means

One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

>>18764150
At least the Muslims get actual paradise, enjoying hot women, wine and good cheer.

>>18763867
>internal feeling.
This is the point that the other anon already made about empathy.

Compassion is both a feeling and a deed, but it is most accurately defined as the bridge that connects the two.
While it begins as an internal emotional response, it is distinct from simple empathy because it inherently requires an external action to alleviate suffering

bump

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>>18765166
>The sole basis for this recognition is nothing about that person at all, because if they were judged on the basis of their own merits they would certainly be dammed.
>We are not justified by faith as a virtue, and that is nothing different from what the apostle Paul insisted in the books of Romans and Galatians.

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>>18765916
Storebrand Elysium/Valhal?
I prefer the original.

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>>18763467

>>18765652
>you le hate jebus

>>18763467
>breaks the notion that God is responsible for objective morality
God is responsible for defining objective morality, we are responsible for following objective morality.

Your OP is complete schizo nonsense and wrong in virtually every way