I mean, you literally cannot refute without internalizing cristian morality as atheist
everything is permitted with god too
>>18756754Immanuel Kant proved you don't need an existential authority to have an objective system of morality with his Categorical Imperative
>>18756754Everything is technically permitted in this scenario, but the vast majority of people are still going to feel terrible about murdering, raping, and stealing from others. They're not going to want to deal with the initial shock of the act, the sorrow they immediately feel for their victim, or the perpetual guilt they'll know they will have to carry following the act itself. I say this as a Christian - the idea that atheists are a bunch of zombies and orcs who wouldn't mind committing every kind of sin so long as there was no law doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
>>18756777And Nietzsche refuted him on that.
>>18756779They do not mind, as long as they're able to emotionally distance themselves from it.
>>18756779This is true because the law of God is written on their hearts. But they can sear their own consciences so much that they become less than beasts and start to become worse and worse. For example, that's why all homosexuals eventually become pedophiles. I've said for years that the moment you become a reprobate the best thing to do is put a bullet in your own head
>>18756777This position is very convenient until you realize that people are becoming disgusting degenerates that care nothing for an argument some guy made
>>18756779>the vast majority of people are still going to feel terrible about murdering, raping, and stealing from others...unless they're in a different tribe or subspecies or species.
>>18756773Everything is not permitted though. I'm not able to levitate to the moon by flapping my arms. This is because their are laws that we follow, and we are not permitted to do whatever we can imagine. As another example, if I actively disobey God, and jump into a meat grinder, I will experience suffering.
>>18756777>you don't need an existential authorityThis kind of thinking leads to senile dementia, Lewy bodies, and general frailty.
>>18756754>everything is permittedPermitted by who? If there's no god, the absence of god is meaningless to this question. Your fellow men are still very real irrespective of the reality of god, and they are able to enforce their judgments on you if your actions displease them.
>>18756754Buddhism has no ultimate Creator God overseeing things yet has consequences for actions in the form of karma.
>>18756777I like Kant, but the more I observe the world which I live in the more I realize you cannot expect anyone to actually hold themselves to anything unless it has some basis in a higher power. I don't necessarily know why, but something about meta ethics collapses in practice when humans try to reason it themselves. Maybe it's Jungian and the presence of an external authority is necessary for the behavior to be self reinforcing in the collective unconscious. Maybe there is some truth to the absolute existence of perfect, eternal virtue and character that a metaphysical being necessarily occupies and relates to mortal beings. I don't know, but you can't honestly tell me that you look at the state of things and conclude that our world is operating via the categorical imperative to any sort of good, even a utilitarian one.
>>18756754God existing or not existing has no relevance to metaethics whatsoever.
>>18756754Fuck around and find out.
>>18756754Even if there’s God everything is permitted. It’s not really an argument since God has shown time and again he’s not going to come down and smite you just because you’re evil
>>18756773God specifically prohibited a multitude of sins and announced it through Moses
>>18756777The categorical imperative is ungrounded and therefore false
The majority of human suffering happens in the most religious societies. Places where 99,99% of people believe in God and regularly go to church are the most depraved nations, constantly dealing with mass rape, murder, poverty, systemic corruption, caste and pseudo-caste systems etc. People there just rationalise their behaviours by going to church and "repenting" after commiting a serious crime, followed by doing it again and "repenting" again.
>>18757965>God existing has no relevance to whether I have real moral dutiesEnjoy your just and eternal punishment.
>>18758185>Meanwhile, in the wonderful endarkened west, where people choose to commit crimes and glory in it rather than repent
>>18758187The only difference between atheist and modern christians is that atheists are full blown lovers of the world and christians are half blown lovers of the world. A small remnant actually hates the world and its pagan culture and has completely removed themselves from it.
>>18758226>has completely removed themselves from it.1 Corinthians 5:10
>>18758181And yet he permits people to break those rules all the time. Is there any sin he won't permit? If something like the Holocaust can happen, it seems not.
>>18758243The very hairs of your head are numbered, according to Christ. God does not forget any sin or injustice.
>>18758243God does not really permit anyone to break His law, He tolerates them to exist in His world for a time either to store up wrath for themselves for the reprobate, or to give them time and hear the gospel for the elect. But the reprobates are punished in hell for their sins, and the sins of the elect were punished upon the cross, and no sin is left unpunished; which, from the perspective of God who exists outside of time, is already done. Second, the wicked at this very moment live under the wrath of God, and while they are able to give themselves some meager pleasure in this life as long as they live under God’s anger true happiness eludes them, and they know only misery from all things.
>>18758185It's all feudalism which originated in Babylon - or maybe China, and it's still around lurking underneath everything. No matter how democratized societies become on the surface, top down hierarchical control based on common myths, political connections and the basic occult structure permeates everything because it just werks. It has much traction, most are simply born into one 'system' or another and eventually indoctrinated into many other subsequent 'systems'.Christianity is nothing more than mythical Babylonian codified subjugation to a system. The etymology of system or systēma in Latin was derived from the first sewage system, the first required 'system' society needs to operate, without is will perish, everything else is built on that. Everything is built on an outhouse in this world. Toilet training is always the first system a human is enrolled in and the rest is soon history...
>>18758413>No matter how democratized societies become on the surface, top down hierarchical control based on common myths, political connections and the basic occult structure permeates everything because it just werks.Could this perhaps have anything to do with the fact that some people are genuine retards while some people have Aryan Intelligence (AI) levels of cognition like Julius Caesar or Nappy, ditto with any relevant metric
>>18756754>>18756773Everything in creation has consequences, tho. Cause and effect.
>>18758325The problem with this paragraph is that, whilst it may be called correct on a purely technical level from one perspective, it is entirely bereft of the patience, kindness, gentleness, compassion and humility we are called to show as Christians. It is to scripture what dehydrated peas and potatoes are to bubble and squeak. Yes, a great number of people are lost in their sinning. Yes, so long as they continue to sin, they will not know a full and complete happiness. But no one's convinced by your fire and brimstone style of preaching. Your relentless need to browbeat and abuse more often than not calcifies people in their shame and misery. You fall back on the old adage: "If they were elect, it would be impossible for them not to listen." But in this technicality, you forget that you yourself will be judged for your lack of earnest mercy. They may well listen. Just not to you.
>>18758187Yet they still have a much lower crime rate then third world shitholes where everyone is deeply religious.
>>18756754You could argue with biological and social aspects of ethics blocking you from committing "bad" things, but christcucks will just retroactively define those as "made by god" at which point the entire discussion becomes circular and retarded
>>18756754Morality is impossible under christianity so I reject any uich notion that atheism needs it/is founded on it
>>18756754Christian morality like genocide and mass child rape (jesus commands this in the bible)
>>18756754Sure, everything is permitted, you just have to deal with the consequences if someone doesn't like it.
>>18757338>Disobey godNot possible because god doesn’t actually say anything and we don’t know what he wants.>We have his holy wordwhich one?>The BibleOnce again, which one? Do you include the Book of Enoch? What’s your canon? What translation? How do you interpret it?>God actually happens to believe all the things I already believe.Convenient.My god believes that all men should masturbate to gay hentai for 8 hours everyday. Not doing so is a grave sin. This is an objective truth (according to me).
>>18758243permission is not a synonym with possibility
>>18756779>Everything is technically permitted in this scenario, but the vast majority of people are still going to feel terrible about murdering, raping, and stealing from others. They're not going to want to deal with the initial shock of the act, the sorrow they immediately feel for their victim, or the perpetual guilt they'll know they will have to carry following the act itself.Only if they’re intelligent. Empathy is strongly associated with IQ. Dumb people could not give less of a shit and can’t even conceptualize other people’s suffering.If you disagree, try working with retarded kids. They’ll beat up their own mother and then go back to sipping their juice box like nothing happened.
>>18762452Both controlled by impulses
>>18760189not for long
