Why didn’t more "civilized" Native American groups, such as the Quechua or the Maya, expand toward the eastern coast of South America to bring civilization to those regions—much like the Bantu peoples did in Africa?
Probably they didnt give a fuck
>>18756428>Andean Civilizationclosely tied to the Andes itself in an environmental niche sense, with heavy exchange between peoples living at different altitudes and stuff. Incas did kick around some Amazonian peoples but I don't know if the general cultural package could've extended that far from the mountains, and eastern south america is a long way away.>Mayansand it's even further from them. I don't know as much about their geographical limits, though.
>Bantus migrated to South Africa and Zimbabwe from 2000BCE to 1500CEFake and gay and Marxist historical revisionism. They only started migrating there after the Boers arrived and created civilization in the 1600s.
>>18756428Niggers didn't have civilization in Africa
>>18756522False. The records of their presence in Southern Africa date way back with said date being g pushed back further. How the fuck do you fall for shit Apartheid propaganda in 2026? Not even the National Party believed that.
>>18756428Andean peoples were very specialized and settled and probably didn't think the lowland jungles were a very attractive destination. As for the Maya, they didn't even live in South America. The Maya languages are spoken in what is now southern Mexico, and some of Central America, a region that sits entirely within North America.
>>18756428>much like the Bantu peoples did in Africa?The Bantu myth requires you to simultaneously believe that Africans are primitive and still managed to accomplish the greatest culture exchange/conquest in history and further that somehow in just a few hundred years these languages somehow changed so greatly they are more different than Russian is from Spanish.
>>18756661The more you learn about paleolinguistics the more you realize it's mostly sophistry. It's all based on random guesses and hunches that are not really any more informed than what a layman without their technical knowledge would come up with, with only a cursory glance at the available evidence, but the layman is less able to couch his random guesses in impenetrable jargon and endless frivolous comparisons that give the illusion of scientific rigor. Paleolinguistics is a field where the "dominant theory" is the one that has the most vociferous and prolific bullshit artists stumping for it.
>>18756661But I don't believe africans are primitive. They founded metal before the Europeans did.
>>18756428The Uto-Aztecans, particularly the Nahua, were actually expanding at a very fast pace. By the time of Spanish arrival, Nahuatl-speaking peoples had arrived to Nicoya Peninsula, in modern-day Costa Rica.It is likely that they would've met Chibchan-speaking peoples in Colombia and, eventually, the Andean civilizations if they had more time.
>>18756428No one cares about bantus they never mattered for anything except for slaves
>>18756428>AndesAndean civilization was very heavily specialized for Montane environments, even despite that though they did try to expandTo the south they got btfo'd by the Mapuche, they expanded into the amazon again but got pushed back by some amazonian tribesThey were in the process of expanding north into Colombia when Huayna Capac died from spanish plagues, had they been left alone they probably could have gone up to venezuela >MesoamericaNorth eventually becomes desert that's better to trade with than outright conquer (Even the spanish got btfo'd by the Chichimeca and Pueblos)South is the interesting one, there was actually something a little like the bantu expansion with different groups from core mesoamerica migrating south after being defeated by other groups into Honduras/Nicaragua (Chorotega, Nicarao, etc) You even have languages related to Nahautl being spoken here. Where it's different from the Bantu expansion, is that these groups were migrating into already agricultural areas where it was harder to completely displace people, compared to Bantus mainly displacing Hunter Gatherers, and again the spanish coming interrupted further southward migrations.
>>18756760>No one cares about bantus they never matteredHistory and politics says otherwise.Why do you think all the slaves were Bantu?
>>18756858Why?
>>18756722no they apparently discovered iron in 900bc but didnt evolve otherwise really. even joinery was essentially unknown in africa.
>>18756428There were many linguistic groups in the Americas with surprisingly wide distributions. The Na-Dene languages were spoken from Alaska all the way down to the deserts of the US Southwest, the Uto-Aztecan languages from the Great Plains down to Costa Rica, and the Arawakan languages from Central America and the Caribbean all the way down do the southern foothills of the Andes in northern Argentina. They just didn't involve much outright displacement since the technological and organizational gap between cultures wasn't quite as wide as the one between bantus and the hunter-gatherers they encountered. Ironically given your question, the closest thing to it that I can think of the Tupi-Guarani speakers of Brazil displacing the non-tupian peoples from South America's eastern coast.
>>18756892>didnt evolve otherwise really.But they did. They did several jumps in metal and pretty much did bronze and iron at about the same time.
>>18756892> 900bcThe exact date is uncertain, though it definitely predates 600 BC significantly (assuming it had a single, independent origin rather than conceptual diffusion being at play).> but didnt evolve otherwise reallyJust retarded.> even joinery was essentially unknown in africa.That's not even that useful. Who cares?>>18756950> pretty much did bronzeIirc that in this context was likely a cultural import, and copper was a more North African pastoralist thing.
>>18757013Could you set aside your hyperfixation on Africa and BBC for a while and stick to the topic of the thread?
>>18756722The fact they did makes them look even worse>smelts iron before europeans>their architecture is still just mudhuts
>>18756428>Why didn’t more "civilized" Native American groups, such as the Quechua or the Maya, expandGiven more time, they would have. It's clear that Mesoamerican Indians had contact with eastern North American tribes.
>>18756739>>18756764>By the time of Spanish...Nahuatl-speaking peoples had arrived...in...Costa Rica>...different groups from core mesoamerica migrating... into Honduras/Nicaragua...You even have languages related to Nahautl being spokenYes, but framing this as an "expansion" is misleading. The Pipil and other Nahuas that were in Nicaragua or maybe Costa Rica got there as migrants, it wasn't a intentional effort at colonization or military expansion by the Aztec Empire or anything, and if I had to guess (I haven't looked into these extreme southern Mesoamerican groups much) those groups probably got that far south before the Aztec Empire even formed in the 1420s>>18756902>They just didn't involve much outright displacement since the technological and organizational gap between cultures wasn't quite as wide as the one between bantus and the hunter-gatherers they encounteredI would contend this. The gap between Mesoamerican civilizations and say nomadic groups in Aridoamerica was massive, it was just mostly a difference of the complexity of political and social organization, urbanization, and intellectual traditions rather then, like, the types of tools they had access to. And even then, I doubt the Chichimeca were making any implements like pic related, in terms of the artistry involved. Even as far as obsidian blades themselves go, the Mesoamericans were still making innovations with prismatic blade production as late as a few centuries before Spanish contact>>18757036It's not "clear" at all. There's not really compelling evidence of it that researchers take seriously. Some stuff here and there people sometimes muse about, but it's all pretty circumstantial or speculative. The only hard evidence of contact is the Spiro Mounds obsidian scraper and the Cacao found at Etowah, but nothing suggests the former wasn't A to B, B to C etc indirect trade, and while I need to look into it more, I don't think(?) the latter research is any more likely to be direct
>>18756428Andean polities *did* try to expand south and west. Resistance from local peoples and the climate (in the Amazon) are what stopped them.
>>18756481>>18756526The state of this board is so sad and pathetic. These replies are so low-effort I can only imagine you faggots in your literal deathbed doomscrolling this board out of all places or just hitting refresh on the homepage. I can't imagine any other state for such brain rot.
>>18756950right so they had other metal tools as statedeven the famous benin bronzes have now been discovered to be a likely european import with the copper being sourced from germany
>>18758200>Yes, but framing this as an "expansion" is misleading. When we call this an "expansion" we are comparing it to the Bantu "expansion" which wasn't an intentional expansion by a particular state either, it was the movement of groups of people who belonged to a particular language group down south who displaced other peoples. The main difference is that the Bantu expansion took thousands of years and was agriculturalists/pastorialists with ironworking displacing hunter-gatherers while in central america they were meeting more technologically similar peoples and less displacement (depends on the group in question).This is like saying that the Indo-european expansion is misleading because they didn't have state soceities.
From an anthropological perspective, basically the Spaniards arrived "too early".American civilization got an INCREDIBLY late headstart, which makes their level of civilization even more amazing. I'm not kidding, humans reached the Americans 13 THOUSAND years later than they reached Eurasia. And yet, Americans managed to discover farming at the same time and build a civilization in an arguably much more hostile environment. There were>barely any domesticable animals>difficult cropsUnironically, if yurop discovered the americas like a 1000 years later, we probably would've encountered a medieval-level civilization with metallurgy, printing press, and large empires (or former large empires of bygone times)
>>18758432I doubt it. The American civilizations were stagnant—the Andean one, in particular. There were no further innovations; they lived in an endless cycle of decline and rebirth, yet they never managed to break through a certain technological ceiling.
>>18756527Nice source, Bantu.
Why did Bantus genocide and displace Khoisan people?
>>18756661>more different than Russian is from SpanishThis is obviously not true and Bantu languages immediately look and sound similar
>>18756428>Bantu peoples did in AfricaBANTU WAS THE ORIGINAL GLOBOHOMOhttp://www.google.com/search?q=BANTU+AFRICABantu peoples are a major ethnolinguistic grouping of roughly 400 distinct indigenous African ethnic groups across Central, Eastern, and Southern Africa who speak over 535 related languages. They make up approximately 350 to 400 million people, accounting for about 30% of Africa’s total population.
>>18758442>The American civilizations were stagnant—the Andean one, in particular. There were no further innovations; they lived in an endless cycle of decline and rebirth, yet they never managed to break through a certain technological ceiling.>—Slop detected Also Proofs? What technological ceiling did they not manage to break as a Bronze Age/Iron Age-esque civilization?
>>18758549>roughly 400 distinct indigenous African ethnic groups across Central, Eastern, and Southern Africa who speak over 535 related languages.This doesn't sound like a coherent language family, more like a catch-all "other" category due to the impossibility of tracing languages in non-literate oogabooga cultures.
>>18758577>non-literate oogabooga cultureshuman ability to read and write was a huge evolutionary step forward becase written words don't change over timeimagine a culture that only had "verbal" histories
>>18756428Because settled state societies don't expand the way nomadic tribal herders do.The bantu were their region's indo-europeans; mobile, disunited, hyper expansive and ultra-adaptable. When people like that have better martial technology and there is no unified state society to stop them they take over everything. If their home turf suffers turmoil it doesn't matter because they're independent tribes that don't rely on each other and can survive wherever. The Inca and Maya were their regions Greece or Rome, agriculture based city builders, specialized for their environment, strong and sophisticated and when they expand they do so from a centralized home region and require complex supply lines. Once that home region collapses everything else does within generations. Such is the fate of empires. It didn't happen to the bantus, Indo-Europeans or Austronesians because they were never an empire.
>>18758442I mean, not really. There's a lot of stuff that was present at the time of the Spanish conquest that were fairly recent technological advancements. Metallurgy for one, particularly in Mesoamerica, had only been around for 500-700 years (yes, they did indeed build all that impressive stuff with no metal tools whatsoever for most of their history). Also singling out Andean civilization as particularly stagnant is very inaccurate, given that the whole region had achieved an unprecedented level of political and cultural unity under the Inca Empire, which was itself building upon the legacy of a previous relatively recent innovative empire, the Wari. The Inca existed for less than 100 years yet founded multiple cities all over the Andes and constructed several engineering projects so impressive that arguably a majority of people nowadays refuses to believe they were the ones that did it.
>>18758200>It's not "clear" at all.Yes it is.
>>18758549>over 535 related languages.This is why they're doomed as a people.
>>18758306yeah ok but sometimes people dont give a fuck
>>18756870why not?
>>18756428Because there already was civilization in the Amazon. There were many cities of thousands of people and confederations of tens of thousands to low hundreds of thousands. That's not really different than the small to medium size states in the Andes or Mesoamerica. They just were forgotten because their descendants tribalized and adopted simpler lifestyles and their cities rotted away while the mounds and geoglyphs they made were overgrown by the jungle.
>>18758306real
