How did this phenotype came into existence?
>>18756089Russian?
>>18756089Brachycephalization during the little ice age
EHG had the same evolutionary pressures asians had.
>Uralo-Siberians migrate westwards>Proto-Samis migrate northwest, the others remain more southern>Mix with early Indo-Europeans at Volga-Kama basin>Migrate towards the Baltic, mix with the Proto-Balto-Slavs>Migrate to modern-day Finland, mix with the proto-Germanics and proto-Samis>Remain in a secluded, forested backwater region of that bumfuck nowhere of a country for the next 1500-2000 years>be Savolaxid Fingolian with 5-10% Siberian admixture while other Baltic Finns keep mixing with Swedes and Russians
>>18756089Oinkrainian?
That's a Baltoid
>>18756093How does brachycephalization even happen? What makes people select for round heads?
>>18756092it's part of the range
>>18756089WHITE POWERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>>18758402It’s a mix of diet with weather.In cold weather, a sphere-shaped skull is better at holding onto heat because it minimizes the surface area exposed to the freezing air outside it. It’s similar to how Emperor penguins stick together and form a “sphere” to stay warm. Humans also started eating softer foods because of agriculture which caused their jaws to start shrinking and pulling inwards since jaw muscles didn’t need to work as hard anymore. The brain size remained the same though but because it was sitting at the top of a now smaller face, the skull compensated by rounding out and expanding sideways. It’s why you can find brachycephalization in warmer climates but it’s more pronounced in colder regions. There are probably other reasons but that’s the gist of it.
>>18758718I feel like there's something missing though, there are many exceptions, it seems. Northern Europe has notably low cephalic index, despite having relatively cold climate. Mongoloid features, including brachycephalia, are generally considered to be an adaptation to colder climate, so I can understand the Americas and Polynesia which are populated by people deriving at least partial ancestry from ancient North East Asians who we assume developed such phenotypes, but we haven't seen change towards longer heads in the last 20.000 years.I guess it less of a rule and more of an evolutionary possibility, like many other phenotypical traits.
>>18758820Fun fact, modern Poles are reversing their brachy indexes, and are starting to look more like medieval Poles who were more meso/dolico cephalic.No idea why this happens, climate is not the answer.
>>18758820>>18758832Yeah, I never meant them as rules. It’s not always diet or weather but over thousands of years, they both add up.Phenotypes are just the result of the interaction between genetics and environment which includes several things after all. For instance the transition from small bands of hunter gathers into large agricultural villages where high aggression must have been discouraged would result in lower testosterone and melt away heavy brow ridges. In the case of Poles it could be a mix of diet, healthcare or even subtle changes like modern children sleeping in different positions compared to medieval children
>>18756089If I had to guess I'd say sexual selection for desirable features in females. Women with this phenotype are cute but the men look goofy.
It's a Caucasoid phenotype since it's present in Baltic people, who are among the most West Eurasian-admixed populations in existence.
>>18759175At least they tend to be tall and have a robust build
>>18759083Yeah but with Poles they are becoming more like Medieval selves looks wise, which is interesting. Here is a study,https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267986469_The_influence_of_natural_selection_on_brachycephalization_in_PolandIt's insane how brachycephalic Poles were even a few decades ago, like almost no one below 80 in southern Poland.
>>18759304And this is the new study, which shows trend reversal, https://www.schweizerbart.de/papers/anthranz/detail/80/102944/Intergenerational_changes_in_selected_cranial_meas?af=crossrefRiveting stuff.
>>18758718Wrong.The driver of cephalic index is windpipe diameter and base cortisol metabolism.Brachycephalism closes the windpipe a bit, which makes breathing harder, this in turn makes you produce more cortisol as a rule. If you're very sensitive to cortisol you're constantly stressed and depressed and won't breed therefore by necessity brachycephaly will be tied to cortisol tolerance.This then means that mildly stressing situations, like having to always be around your uncle who you hate will affect you less than if your base cortisol was lower, because any additional cortisol generated by your body has its effect diminished by inherent tolerance.This is why in Europeans brachycephaly=people living in mountainous terrain or alternatively subjected to long and severe serfdom. They cannot leave their environment to escape the annoying uncle. The same mechanism that happens with breathing takes place there - cortisol resistant brachycephalics are less affected by everyday annoyances and thus less depressed.Dolichocephalic peoples usually had an escape. They could run away to the city or to the sea. Most primitive Europeans will be more dolichocephalic as well because they simply always had unclaimed land they could go to.Interestingly there's also some reason to believe there's broader selection for general bodybuild there. Dolichocephalic peoples tend to be leaner, and for obvious reasons(more air) better runners and endurance performers in general. Brachycephalics tend to, as noted, have less efficient breathing apparatus but they're more heavily built and stronger. If you're looking at weightlifters the top dogs will come from Caucasus, let me check their CI... Oh! Meanwhile sprinting used to be a Scandinavian thing before modern training practices came to Africa.
>>18759312That sounds far fetched,>Jantz, R. L., & Jantz, D. L. (Research on long-term secular cranial vault changes and morphological plasticity in European and American populations).The above claims that the primary driver is the broader secular trend in growth and maturation. Improved infant and childhood nutrition, reduced incidence of chronic early-childhood infections, and overall higher socioeconomic standards allow fuller phenotypic expression of growth potential.There is also the increased early infant movement and better sleeping arrangements that allow for a more natural expression of the pre-programmed mesocephalic and dolicocephalic morphology to develop. The same is going on in Croatia, not just Poland.>Buretić-Tomljanović, A., et al. (2004, 2006, 2007). Research on secular cranial and cephalic index trends in Croatia.
Women of this phenotype are either ogresses or elves.
>>18759413
>>18759424
>>18759332Why does inflection in CI towards brachycephaly in Poland start right when manor economy, dense village structure(necessitated by gradual introduction of heavy plough that phased out slash and burn farming that necessitated moving every 20-25 years) and immunity grants start becoming a thing around 1100 then?Increase of yield brought worse diet and increased infant mortality?Why is the trend stable in time rather than slowing down in late 15th and early 16th century and going up in the 17th?Why the shift in it was first noticed in the interwar period, communism(with its more or less direct restrictions of movement) slowed this change down and in the 90's it picked back up?The environmentalist ideology of the academia is clouding the vision of these people
>>18759797You also posit an enviromental-social structure that affects change since the underlying genotype is the same.In any case the original paper noticed that brachys had a higher death rate so there was a mechanism that kept the average dolico-meso constant. Why the death rate was lifted is unknown, but the reversal occurs within the same genotype.
>>18760009>You also posit an enviromental-social structure that affects change since the underlying genotype is the sameI posit environmental-social mechanism affecting natural selection.Animals in prolonged stress tend not to breed, on microscale this slight annoyance will make dolichocephalic people less likely to have kids in constrained environment driving linear transition to higher CI.The death rate is super easy - respiratory issues like asthma. It's just that at some point the stable CI you can see prior to 1100 gets unbalanced and since developments I've written about happened around that time they're the logical culprits
>>18759312>Interestingly there's also some reason to believe there's broader selection for general bodybuild there. Dolichocephalic peoples tend to be leaner, and for obvious reasons(more air) better runners and endurance performers in general. Brachycephalics tend to, as noted, have less efficient breathing apparatus but they're more heavily built and stronger. If you're looking at weightlifters the top dogs will come from Caucasus, let me check their CI... Oh! Meanwhile sprinting used to be a Scandinavian thing before modern training practices came to Africa.that's just bullshitalpinids aren't strong physically, in fact doliochephaly is associated with robustness and physical strength, cromagnoids were doliocephalic (unlike what some people here think) the strongest and most athletic phenotypes in europe, like the faelid and paleoatlantid, are meso-doli, pretty much most ancient hunter gatherers, both sapiens and not were doli, the neanderthal were doli, the denisovan were doli, the whgs were doli, the gravettians were doli, the aurignacians were doli....you're probably confusing facial index and cephalic index>>18759309so future poles, assuming the tend continues, may look like germanics (depigmented med and depigmented cromagnoids)it's definitely good for polish males, women can pull mates whether they're brachy or doli, but brachy male phenotypes seem to struggle, hence why there are negative stereotypes about slavic men
>>18760475>that's just bullshit>alpinids aren't strong physically,Alpinids are brachycephalic in comparison to the generalised western European. Strength competitions in heavier categories tend to be dominated by eastern euros including balkanites and Caucasus mountain bandits.
>>18760542>Strength competitions in heavier categories tend to be dominated by eastern euros including balkanites and Caucasus mountain bandits.not sure that is even true but it's overall irrelevant to facial robustness and athleticismi guess brachycephaloid penotypes (alpinids and armenids and all their varieties) may also exhibit longer torsos and shorter limbs that are good for weightlifting, but weightlifting is a meme and not an actual measure of athleticism, a longer limbed doli paleo atlantid cromagnoid would "win" in actual combat and would have higher chances of actually surviving a dangerous environment due to being able to run/climb better and faster, it's like calling mike israetel (alpinid as fuck) atheletic because he does weightlifting even tho he runs out of breath if he walks for more than 5 minutes
>>18760561I've never said anything else.Doli = really good breathing, high performance when endurance is importantBrachy = bigger frame, respiratory disadvantage, high performance when momentary strength is needed.
>>18760567the doli would actually massacre the brachy if they were to face each other, that's the point, it's not like the doli is some twig pushover that just "runs fast"
>>18758832>>18759304>>18759309>Fun fact, modern Poles are reversing their brachy indexes, and are starting to look more like medieval Poles who were more meso/dolico cephalic.>No idea why this happens, climate is not the answer.I have the answer. Newer generations stopped picking cow-faced, moon-faced Polish whores and go for more pronounced facial structures.
>>18761789mhm, or maybe polish whores have more freedom of choice and are picking doli men
>>18762023You don't know how it works in Poland. So why do you insist on your projections? Even 2/10 ugly men have kids with 7/10 women. And it's always those femoids that chose the ogre in the first place.
>>18762027in so far as west eurasians are concerned, men don't seem to have any problem selecting for brachy or doli women in equal measure, but women have a preference for doli men, this is unfortunate, as it is dysgenic, these men that select for these women will have children that will be mocked in the future, hence why there are negative stereotype about slavic men. >Even 2/10 ugly men have kids with 7/10 women.this most certainly happened in slavic lands in the past, but it is changing, modern west slavs have more freedom of choice, it's really unfortunate that it takes female equality to wipe away alpinids from the genepool, i think we as men need to make more conscious choices and put doli females on a pedestal to ensure future generations of men of our ethnic groups aren't hated
>>18761789>>18762027Both are correct. 1. Ogres had children with above average looking women(that still had brachy skulls), resulting in brachy population. But it also resulted in even more brachy women and men.2. Mesocephalic Poles from newer generation stopped picking brachy women with fat faces. And go for more Doli-tilted variants(that still exist, they're just rare). Resulting in more Mesocephalic Poles. I just hope it never goes into full Dolicho territory. There is nothing gayer than Doli men, they look fragile.
>>18762054>I just hope it never goes into full Dolicho territory. There is nothing gayer than Doli men, they look fragile.that's because you think doli exclusively means mediterranid, likely you're influence by the "gay alien skull vs warrior skull" memesdoli also means cromagnoid phenotypes (faelids and paleo atlantids....) and cromagnoid influenced phenotypes (eurafricanid, tronder.... ) likewise you think brachy means "ogre" but most brachys are gracile alpinids, few are robust borrebysdolicephalization is actually a "return" to ancient times, most ancient hunter gatherers were doli, from the whgs, to the gravettians to the aurignacians to the natufians to the neanderthals to the denisovans, all doli
>>18762062oh btw even ancient mongoloids from the neolithic and mesolithic were doli (and more robust than the modern ones), they also underwent brachycephalization
So people change their looks with almost each generation. Who gives a shit.It should only matter how YOU look to you. But I guess if you're an ugly dysgenic retard that can't get laid and stutters when buying groceries, you would care about some imaginary race rather than your own existence.
>>18760475It's spelled dolichocephaly not doliochephaly
>>18762551The point is that morphology is malleable while the genotype remains constant. >>18762054Pretty much all the sampled Poles were brachy and hyper-brachy in the 70s paper, meso and dolicho Poles were basically non existent before the trend reversal. Sexual or what ever selection wouldn't have time to show itself.
>>18756089School bully phenotype
>>18763250I knew such a guy (similar look but blondeish hair) once as a kid. He stole my pokemon cards. Years later i saw him in the city, he was drunk, midnight, and he pushed down someone on the pavement a distance away.
>>18756089?
