*cough*Why does valve not care about the little guy?They already take 30%, expect you to fork up even more with taxes and fees for licensing and on top of that they will not let you sell your game cheaper somewhere else.Why are they becoming the villains now? Age verification, censorship, no new games or innovation besides steam deck I guess. Now they want to hurt the people that built their platform for using AI tools to help them code.What's going on at valve?
>>110178698Valve did what customers wanted, which I guess is a foreign concept to Timmy.
>>110178698even without AI they've been a piece of shit company that hates their players, customers, and game developers for awhile now though
>>110178698>Why does valve not care about the little guy?they do, theyre protecting me from slop. thanks gabe
>>110178698>*cough*
>>110178698>gives away games for free>still can't attract customerskek
>vibesloppers when you ask them to be transparent about vibeslopping
Ideally they shouldn't allow AI assisted at all, but a label is a reasonable compromise given the circumstances.Your position is absolutely insane to me.1. why does valve owe anything to the "little guy", whoever that may be? 2. The AI companies from which the prompter rents, do they count as the "little guy"?3. No one is forcing you to use Valve's services.4. The customer has every right to choose what they want to buy based on information given to them.5. The business has every right to provide truthful information, so the customer can make decisions on that basis.You should instead directly tell those customers why they should enjoy AI slop. Go ahead, I'm listening.
>>110178783>Porn games on front page still but only if it's not anime >CS2 chicken eggs is a direct spit in the face and acknowledgement they don't care bout cheaters and they are mask off now>Age verification bending of the knee instead of suspending service in the UK/AUS to stir up backlash and rejection if age verification laws>Censoring of indie games with anything slightly controversial >Not addressing the DRM problem>New hardware is flopping and dead on arrivalThey are literally doing everything wrong. What the fuck happened.
>>110178831Shut up, Sweeney.
>>110178813Because Valve would have nothing, absolutely nothing, without indie games. They've sat on their ass and they've made some terrible decisions as of late, both in policy and hardware.Also with the recent Sony backlash, ownership of media is becoming a more heated topic, and they won't take an anti drm stance, at the very least for their own games. Steamworks should be always offline forever. It shouldn't require steam client to run the game, unless it's multiplayer and it should be not allowed to release a single player game restricted by drm.
>>110178831CS2 compniggers deserve every bit of ire they get, and to be exploited for what little worth their pathetic lives may have.
>>110178881Negro, do you want a CS2 DVD mailed to your house or something?
>>110178899No, because that's a multiplayer game. What should be banned however is devs using steamworks to restrict access to offline play with single player games.
>>110178913That's the dev's decision.
>>110178923I don't care, steam allowed it. Steam allowed the dev to have a choice.And by the way this is a common shill point that gets repeated constantlyso I'm just going to assume you're a shill. I'm almost convinced it's a bot
>>110178938Claiming I'm a shill for supporting Valve's multi-decade, take-it-or-leave-it status quo is funny when you're simping for a gremlin that tried to make platform exclusivity a thing on PC.
>>110178698>the platform makes money either wayThat's the point isn't it? Valve actually gives a fuck about their customers, Timmy doesn't.
>>110178938>Steam allowed [...] a choiceholy shit we can't have that STOP THE COUNT
>>110178698the people in the lower left blocking/boycotting are a loud minority suffering from AI derangement syndrome, and you should just forget about them and move on
>>110178698>expect you to fork up even more with taxes and fees for licensingThat's the state's fault not valve's
>>110178954Don't care, ultimately it's valves decision whether they want DRM on the platform, and they have chosen DRM.
>>110178698No. Nobody owes you money. People don't want slop. People don't want to make slop. The customer wants this information. It's really easy not to get this label. All you need to do is make your game like generations of developers have before you.Even without AI, you have the fastest machines ever and the best tools ever on them. Make your masterpiece. Or are you too dumb?
>>110178698I thought I had to pay for tokens but apparently all my bills magically disappear when using AI.
>>110178978Considering that precisely ZERO (0) indie devs have ever launched their game with physical media, even that decision was made for Valve.
>>110178964And DRM is morally wrong soooo..... yes? Any sane person would be against it. Otherwise you are on Sony's side. no ownership for something you paid for isnt consumer friendly
>>110178970Are you AI slop games working out on Steam? Valve should increase the fee to $1000.
>>110178698So, she doesn't do art, she doesn't do animations, she doesn't program, she doesn't design the sounds, she doesn't even market her own game.So, what does she do? Most indie devs are solodevs who do all these things by themselves.
>>110178994then practice what you preach and don't publish your game on steam and don't use steamworks. roll your own content delivery mechanism and networking code. fucking email your customers an ftp link or some shit. simple.
And Valve takes a 30% tax on every sale which they don't even need
>>110178698>50k for your vibeslop gameI'm making a game as well right now with Claude. I expect to spend less than 1k on this and it's a massive project. I don't think I'll care if it flops. I'd probably just play it myself.
>>110178698>Age verificationthis is a good thing. people over 20 or (jesus christ dare i say it.. )30 shouldnt be playing video games.
>>110179022she's more of a personality hire, or maybe an ideas girlie
Why is this guy so butthurt about Valve? Unreal engine and Fortnite are still massively successful.
>>110178698It is only right that consumers are made known if a game uses AI. A disclaimer during a time of controversy is only fair and transparent.If it gets controversy from it that is not due to the label, it is due to the nature of the product.
>>110178831>>110178887Your opinion is worthless if your primary interactions with valve are dota and cs
>>110178698If you use AI as a search engine, do you have to add that label?
>>110180346Obviously not. Stop being retarded for 5 fucking seconds.
>>110178698Well thankfully you have a well-funded and well-meaning rival of Valve, who's so considerate as to take even less money from your revenue, and since they offer a better service (according to Mr Sweeney), this should all work out in their favor in a free market, right?
>>110179022Do you?
>>110179022She's a big picture kind of gal.
>>110178881Commie faggotThere would be no Indie devs without Valve.One guy can make a game and make a career out of it because of Valve.And you seem to have forgotten that Valve is a game developer first and foremost.Putting game developers first, is a failed business model. And is destroying the industry.
>>110178959They cause studios to lose money, that 30% could be used for future production but no you think Valve should always collect money without work.
>>110178698>who gets hurtthe consumer. the last thing anyone in that picture is thinking about
>>110179975He's a tyrant.
>>110178698timtim is just upset the only way he can compete with the number of titles on steam is prompt fondler projects.
>>110178698valve is the reason PC gaming is basically dead and you can only rent gamesGabe was always a massive piece of shit and did more harm to gaming than the fucking crash with ET
>>110182317There is no additional 30% without Valve. That's why they charge you 30%.It is very difficult to market and sell a game. Think about how you would direct people to your website to buy your game.! It'd cost you way more than "30%". You'd end up begging for a digital storefront like Steam.Valve has made selling a video game accessible to virtually everyone.It cost $100 to publish your game on Steam.
>noooooo i have to hide the nature of my product>i just have to mislead consumers
>>110178698what's the matter timmy? got laughed off /v/?
Has anyone seen Gabe bitching on twitter like a little faggot in all of these years? No? Well, that tells you who to side with.
>mah dream game>runs>it's ass and looks like ass>i-it's fault of those evil luddites!!!if it's easy to tell that you ai slopped a product, it's probably a shit product.
>>110178698Real games don't have a price tag
>>110178698Let's imagine the world where we would buy food without even having abiliity to read what's inside. Ground meat for $4,99!!! What is it made of? Well, buy and discover yourself!
>>110180027For what purpose? What does it matter for the consumer?Either the game is good or not, there were lots of slop shit before AI too and people rated them accordingly
>>110184581Is it because they're worthless?
>>110184644Some things are so precious that they have no monetary value, like a soul, not that you'd understand since you don't have one.
>>110178698The little guy is the customer, and the customer is also the one actually paying. Valve cares about the little guy, that's why they have the disclosure rule in place, so the little guy can avoid getting fucked over by stealth slop.
>>110184599>food analogyYou can easily tell what type of meat the shit you're buying if you'd ever went grocery shopping, knew how to cook and didn't subsist on foodora.
>>110184657Soul isn't a "thing". Material manufactured shit always has a price attatched
>>110184599why do luddites keep choosing this hill to die onYou keep being given an example why this is wrong, Coca Cola. No one knows their secret recipe. What about KFC same thing
>>110178698>AI slop argument
>>110184696You're fucking scum and a servant of Satan. You think video games are just another cash grab and not an artistic expression of human suffering.
>>110184732imagine worshipping a consumer product you soulless fucking ape
>>110178813AI games are impossible to detect with 100% certainty. Some of the sloppiest ones are obvious but there's a wide gulf between absolute certainty of AI slop and absolute certainty that no AI was used.
Until now every indie developer had to seriously consider whether their game would stand out enough to make money. It was a filter of some level on the quality of what was being made.Now people can shit out 10 games a day. Indie developers don't have a CHANCE to get seen if they are just amongst all the AI slop.
>>110184757posers can get fucked, there was way too many indie sloppers anyway
>>110184741If your game doesn't honor God then it's not a real game. Think of Deus Ex, it's not explicitly Christian (although J.C) but there are many higher powers and principalities that you wrestle with beyond just hurr durr le stealth shooter.But again, you're a soulless golem hylic who probably spends 10 hours a day playing candy crush so you'd never get it.
>>110184790And no I'm not Christian, I'm just cognizant that there is a higher power.
>>110184790OoT was monumental for it's time but lets not kid ourselves here, shit was deliberately designed as babbys first 3D video game with a learning curve to get kids to be familiar with navigating a 3D environment. Call a spade for a spade. The evocative emotions it might have impinted on your childs brain are just that, emotions.
i've yet to see a single thing worth playing among the vibeslop
>>110184824Well that game is getting a remake in 2 weeks, but will it invoke the same feeling as the original? I think a kid who never played the original OoT and just the remake would have a vastly different experience, maybe something about human imagination making up for the lack of detail is what makes the game more memorable but I don't know, this isn't universally true for all games.
>>110184857Kids are playing roblox, with it's digital vomit visuals. The remake is made nostalgiafagging soilennials like (You)
>>110179022She's the girlboss product manager who gets the biggest paycheck out of the budget
>>110178698if the best case result is Break Even then the project should not be done as a way to make money. as a hobby or some other type of project then ok, but if you are spending money to make zero money and actually lose out from opportunity cost, then maybe that persons game shouldn't exist.
>>110178813>AI slopif the dev is competent then it shouldn't be slop. slop is identifiable without the AI Label, it is identifiable with your eyes and at most a quick demo.
>>110184599You don't know if a game is made on Unity, Python, C#, Brainfuck or Blender unless you dig into it tho
>>110184895But Roblox doesn't charge for the games that is made on their platform. Maybe these so called devs can upload their shitty games on Roblox instead (they won't because they think they'll make big bucks on steam instead)There's also a ton of shitty and surprisingly well made clones of other games in Robloxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxTQs-7ZON8&
>>110184924so then there's no harm in the label, you can just see it outright anyway, just like you can see if there's drm
>>110184950"AI disclosure" is pointless because using AI in this time and age is like using Google before AI. Literally everyone uses AI nowadays like how everyone used Google, but you don't need to disclose that you used a search engine in your project, same with AI.
I find it a bit weird that generated assets like music or graphics are treated the same way as generated code.What if someone discussed some plot lines with chatgpt? Or asked it to suggest 10 names for NPCs?
>>110182301>There would be no Indie devs without ValveThere are indie devs not publishing on valve, Web is sufficient as a publication platformEven before itch.io there were a lot of random io games back in the day
>why labels matters...explained by one group (those who rely on AI)...by putting a label on another group (those who doesn't use AI)...in order to antagonize a third group (those who dislike AI).human translation:AI makes my life comy, and i want to keep it that way.cold hard truth:>if your work sucks, it's because you suckconclusion:only way to change your output is to change the input.
>>110178698Fuck Tim, fuck Unreal, fuck everything they've done to the game industry. It's been nothing but enshittification right from the beginning.
>>110178698>They already take 30%And provide unlimited downloads, forums, and a modding workshop that also provides unlimited downloads, and a place for screenshots, videos, guides, and so on. That said I do agree that the cut should be changed so that smaller games pay less and bigger ones pay more.
>>110178831>slightly controversialGo ahead and name these "slightly controversial" things.
why the FUCK does this NIGGER shitposts on twitter everyday instead of fixing his stores fucking cart system?
Valve's success is a result of its competitor's incompetence. If Epic had the same features and convenience as Valve, they'd be successful.
>>110185227>If Epic had the same features and convenience as Valve, they'd be successful.only in a timeline where they didn't burn the bridge with every consumer first
>>110178698More like Tim Weeney
>>110184515The best reply
>>110178698>Rate proposed Community Notes>Rate proposed Community Notesvalvedrones seethed>>110178723customers killed gaming by normalizing the 30% cut. the only way to make money in this market is to make either pay to win gacha or idle/incremental skinner box poison. or you roll the dice and play the numbers game with asset flip shovelware streamerbait friendslop. they also killed the vn scene by destroying the last bastion of (non-niche) eroge, the PC.
>>110179024why do cretins like you believe one must be barred from participating in society if they hold ideas that they think would improve it?
>>110185049unity web games all migrated to the festering tumor that is steam once kongregate died. ever since they dropped greenlight, steam threatens to engulf every niche market in pc gaming yet caters to them poorly. ironically valve is killing desktop gaymen because they forced everyone into a paradigm that's wholly identical to that of the play and app store. so there's no good reason for normalfags to own a pc and for developers to cater exclusively to the desktop.
>>110178698> omg let me push my slop on you! > "no we don't let sloppers slop here."the ai sloppers are mad kek.
Maybe people just need to get over themselves and accept AI as a tool instead of sperging over it.AI in creative work needs to become an accepted standard, because that's where we're headed if we're not there already.But instead of accepting it, people want to play this retarded game of hating AI while also using it themselves, and also wanting the AI use to be hidden in their consumer products, so they can pretend it was never used to begin with.It's such a retarded situation but this is what you get with these stupid identity politics influenced stances that people take.They can't accept AI, because it would eliminate their ability to stand on some bullshit soapbox and virtue signal about it.
>>110186406>AI in creative work needs to become an accepted standard, because that's where we're headed if we're not there already.Bog-standard, AI shill buzzspeak.
>>110186422Yet it's not wrong.You can kick and scream all you want but AI use is already widespread as fuck.In what future do you see people dropping it? You can't come up with a scenario like that, especially considering it's just getting better at a rapid rate.There is no timeline where people stop using this tool because it's way too big of a force modifier.
>>110178985>I had to walk uphill both ways in the snow, so should you!Go live in a cave, bitter retard.
Little Timmy's tantrums will never not be funny.
>>110180027Using AI doesn't automatically make games good or bad. There have already been dozens of cases of people really enjoying some indie game, then rumors come out about possible AI usage and people start review bombing it.Same game that everyone played and enjoyed last week, but this week the fools start screaming because of politics. Then they act like they always hated it because they don't want the Internet outrage machine to turn against them. It's retarded.
>>110184917>fuck small passion products if it's not profitable then it doesn't matter Funny how AI haters think like corporate jews
>>110186422Every programmer is using AI already, they're just lying about it.
>>110186489>my ai slop is a PASSION project>ofc profit doesnt matter>but still, dont make me say my game is vibeslopped its gonna hurt my salesyou drink cum. stop talking, in general.youre a worthless parasite
I want to make friends with hackers and learn hacking.
is it even enforceable?
>>110178698Show me 1 (ONE) good game that used ai to develop it
>>110187527how would you even know if dev used ai without self-reporting?
>>110187715do jeets really think people dont sniff out their slop from miles away?
>>110187715Because it's all ego so if they made a good game with AI, they'd be bragging about it all over the internet.
>>110187736>sniff out their slopfrom what? decompiled source code?>>110187747>they'd be bragging about itnot necessarily if they fear the backlash
anti-AI psychosis is one of the dumbest trends ever
>>110178698When vibeniggers are all literal and spiritual pajeetsSoulless bugmen who only care about scamming and who will never make anything of value
>>110187792>not necessarily if they fear the backlashLet's not pretend they aren't constantly bragging about what AI does even when it's some turd that's barely functional.
>>110178913>that's a multiplayer gameYou can play offline with bots. Who cares about playing with other people?
>>110187736Yes.
>>110178881>Valve would have nothing, absolutely nothing, without indie gamesthe most successful indie game in history didn't use steam to release
>>110185189because autism, simple as.
>>110178881Blah blah, you had your chance to buy from GoG, but Gabens fat dick is permenantly lodged in your ass.
If your game is genuinely good then having an AI label on it won't matter. Only luddites care about this. It looks like slop then it's slop.
>>110178698>(Some) custumers doesn't want to play ai slop>You should hide it because...I'M ENTILTED TO THEIR MONEY
>>110184925God I wish it was mandatory to display the engine and language on the page like they do for kernel level anti cheat or drmAnd even more if I could put "unreal engine" on a blacklistWant to play a rpgmaker game ? Sure here, easy to find
>>110178994It's morally wrong to run nonfree software, that includes games.
>>110178698>wall of text>wall of text>comments are all walls of text
>>110178698I agree with timmy unironically. A game should be judged by how it looks and plays. An AI label is unnecessary.
>>1101914954channel and cloudflare javascript that you ran to make that post is nonfree software
>>110178698The truth is not a "punitive label." For example, Tim Sweeney is a yuuuge faggot.
>>110178959>muh customers, everything is about le customersYou autistic manchildren have no idea about game development and think they just magically appear out of thin air. I saw some comment from indie dev where he stated that after store/publisher cuts and taxes he has somewhere around 35% left from sales which is insane. You work your ass hard for a game that is not guaranteed to succeed and when it does, kikes take most of the reward anyway unlike AAA studios that have lower cuts and tax deductions. It's not worth it especially in current fucked up economy. AI could help with some parts, especially programming, but customers demand AI-free games because muh AI bad. Alright, enjoy your Blackrock-funded AAAslop because you're not getting anything else in following years. This is the future you chose.
>>110192272>publisher cutsPublishers typically pay the majority of the development expenses so yes they kinda deserve the biggest cut. In fact they should take 100% because they pay you to make the game for them.
>>110178698You had me in the first two panels, but the other two are just bullshit cope. The customer has every right to be fully informed on what they are buying, and I don't think many people care about AI other than being falsely misled into thinking a game is made without AI.
>>110192285Lol? Publishers don't pay toward development whatsoever. The only thing they do is distribution. In the internet era, that is relatively cheap. It's a very valuable service if you don't have a brand yet, and thus well worth it for your first games until you get a captive audience. But beyond that it's a bit scammy. A more practical model would be tiered (30% on your first 10k sales, 20% on the next 100k, 10% on the next 1m, 5% on everything else, for example).
>>110191546That only works if you can refund indefinitely. What if the game is so broken it takes 4 hours to just try and get it to even run? That's very common with AI slop. What if the first part of the game is not slopped, but the second part is? Etc.
>>110184689You've clearly never been to a grocery store in your life lmao. You're the kind of amerifat who believes chicken breasts grow on a chicken tree.
>>110186315You dumbass, normalizing the 30% cut is why Valve is steady and consistently good as a service. Good services cost fucking money. The problem is that we never normalized the cut that the developers get and forced the investment/money-lending side to take another hit so that the creators can eat, too.
>>110186479>There have already been dozens of cases of people really enjoying some indie game, then rumors come out about possible AI usage and people start review bombing it.Give ONE example. The fact is, AI is incapable of making anything at all, let alone anything good.
>>110186406Maybe when there is any evidence that AI as a tool can produce quality work instead of pure slop.
>>110186315>customers killed gaming by normalizing the 30% cut.https://youtu.be/stxVBJem3Rs?t=1640
>>110184925And it should be something that's labeled. Engine and/or framework, and any language used for at least 10% of the source.Unity slop is also slop and people are tired of it, too.
>>110184717>he's still buying the muh secret recipe marketing bullshitanyway, the ingredients are on the label even if the exact preparation process isn't
>>110178698>AI-assisted developmentNobody gives a fuck that you used Co-Pilot as a janny in VS code to tidy up some source files. People care about the quality of games. Which if it's "vibe coded" by someone that doesn't know what the fuck they're doing, then yes, that will cause a reduction in quality because the game is a buggy mess, you see things like consistent art styles, visual artifacts and you can just feel the jank and lack of polish.Valve already solved this years ago though. "asset flipping" where jeets bought or just git cloned something like Unity zombie survival template, swapped out a bunch of in game assets (often free and found all over the internet) and just threw together some very basic level (which may again just be some asset like a gas station or whatever and some enemies spawn forever). Charging even a $1-2 dollars because they could list it for free and hope that some idiots are dumb enough to buy it, because that's like a half a day or more salary in India for each copy sold.So when they did the listing fee (whatever it was $100) that you get back when you sell $1000 of games that immediately stamped out all the low effort slop that jeets were spamming the store with.For the AI slop, I would simply add some time lag, like 3 months before any new steam account can try to publish a game for sale, and I would then also increase the listing fee incrementally for each new game. So say add $20 each time, and again, you gotta wait 3 months before you can actually sell the games. Doing this for indies should help them.The problem is never the tooling, plenty of people have made good games with the likes of Unity or something even simpler like some 2D game using Construct or even Game Maker. Where they might lack in say developer skill, they make up for caring about quality of the thing they make and just being passionate to get the game to a high enough standard. I.e. they learned as they went.Vibecoding isn't the problem, vibeslop is.
>>110194632>valve>good serviceL M A O
>>110178698>the label hurts the game's economicsGood. No one gives a shit about soulless slop.>the platform makes money either wayBut it makes much less money if the game doesn't sell.What retarded logic is this, Tim?
>>110178698it's 30% taxes only if you live in a shithole country like dubai
Most of valve's games are incredibly overrated with the only exceptional one being hl with portal and l4d both being very good. tf2 would be honorable mention if they didn't ruin it. If they didn't have an infinite money glitch, they would have rightfully went under long ago.
>>110197887half-life 3 memes are so old they're probably older than half of /g/ at this point (and all of /v/ for sure)
>>110194632I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say in the second part.>>110194640modern storefronts are easy peasy. getting stripe to handle payments for you is table stakes, you can add bitcoin or e-wallets and other non-western payment methods for those steam doesn't even have and be resilient against jewish emv for example.steam doesn't even have good customer support. they famously do not give a fuck about customer support. and nothing has it anymore except enterprise shit like microsoft and b2b cloud. "customer support" as envisioned by valvedrones means only policy driven refunds which is trivial to achieve.security is a meaningless word. nobody cares about what the executable does as long as you codesign it, which is baseline for every published exe or .app ever. security only matters when you're trying to do shit above and beyond a storefront, eg. running a social media. even accounts systems are easily handled with SSO. but buying a license key does not require an actively maintained account, and honestly your users would be much happier if they don't have to either.file hosting is dirt cheap. cloudflare r2 takes just a credit card and ONE post request to upload your file and it's essentially free to host it for eternity as long as the file comes under 10gb and you don't get over 10 MILLION downloads per MONTH. you can assume parallel downloads and pause/resume and multiple updates per month and still service like 100k active users. yes super fast speeds, it's fucking cloudflare. use pages-workers for web hosting.the one thing you don't get is the social media aspect of steam. that requires critical mass and many other games on a single platform which is nigh impossible to achieve organically. that's why every alt. storefront not named gog invest heavily in bloated fancy launchers to grab your attention. just hosting a game is not good enough because the only viable form of publisher is now the social media.
>>110196198the fuck does this mean?
>>110178698Keep seething lil cuckGaben keeps winning
>>110186464>I want to plant my flag on the summit, but I don't want to climb the mountain
>>110178813I would like to just brutally enforce will onto companies. These are the attitudes that allow PoS people to spread a TV series' seasons across 40 different monthly membership streaming platforms and just remove it from being accessible at will.An ancient Roman emperor wouldn't allow this kind of shit.
