>Scarecrow is a one trick pony because the fear toxins, which makes him cool, is limited to only a certain number of stories to tellDo you agree with that take
Fear can be endeless.
>>156108436Reducing Scarecrow to just his fear toxin is what makes him an uninteresting characterHe should use fear toxin a lot obviously but he should also be an evil mentalist type psychiatrist like Hannibal Lecter except he's hyperfocused on fearHis whole character is a deranged version of that whole "people only study psychology to understand themselves" deal except he's a hyper terrorist because he cant cope with the fact he was scared of his dad and bullies as a kid and wants to "study" it on everyone
>>156108436No, the problem with Scarecrow is that he can only do two plots and DC writers tend to avoid doing them in service of LE FEAR GAS>Kings of Fear-esque psychodrama where Crane carries out a character study on Batman (or anyone, really), acting as a Hannibal Lector-esque antagonist>Absolute Batman where the story fully leans into him acting as support for the main villain, and the fear gas is more psychological than just "aiee phobias"You could make him a complete Hannibal Lector expy but that would require gutting that sense of intense personal antagonism and homoeroticism from the Joker.
>>156108524It's very difficult to write Crane for the same reason it's difficult to write Hugo Strange. The Mad Surgeon/Doctor is a small-scale antagonist who preys on individuals and neighborhoods, not entire cities or nations like a Mad Scientist.
>>156108555>small-scale antagonist who preys on individuals and neighborhoodsThat's literally Batman's bread and butter for detective cases, numbnuts
>>156108524If anything Scarecrow makes more sense as an arch rival to Batman than Joker. Batman can deal with unrestrained chaos but fear of not doing good enough and letting Gotham fall into that
>>156108436I liked that one episode where he gets rid of Batman's fear and he's reckless due to it.
>>156108436Why not introduce him to the mystical side of DC?
>>156108436No. >>156108490 has the right of it, because Crane's motivations should open him up to countless acts of terror both grandiose and personal.IMO, it would be great if Scarecrow stepping away from his compound to try conventional means of inducing fear would actually make it harder for the GCPD and Batman to figure out it is him.
>>156108436yeah, basically every scarecrow story involves him farting on people
>>156108815I’m not opposed to your idea but how would you do that? With an elaborate haunted house or something? The fear toxins are the default because it’s easy(batman is vulnerable because he’s drugged and hallucinating)
>>156108885Regular terrorism. If he can make fear toxin, he can put something conventional in gas bombs that go off in crowded place. Create a whole fake framework of political red herrings while studying the effects; he is a scientist after all, so observing the public, having more whitish collar henchmen for once.
>>156108885Scarecrow fashioning himself the suit of a slasher villain and assuming a new but temporary identity to psychologically torment someone in the Bat family or adjacent/close to them until they're close to breaking and begging for their lives too scared to leave their own room. Basically Daredevil Born Again or The Killing Joke but with horror and a psychological twist. It can end with Scarecrow begging for his life like the bitch he is when Batman inevitably shows up and he gets scared shitless
>>156108555Hugo Strange's most famous and iconic appearence is with him threatning an entire city for petty reasons
>>156108436OP, that is a retarded take. How would any of that limit the stories to tell? lol
>>156108436>>156108490The fear toxin is to Scarecrow what venom is to Bane
>>156109139That is also a retarded take, because he's already shown in comics that he can manipulate people through the fear he can cause with his own imagination, hell even just his words.
>>156109173I meant it as a writing crutchReducing Bane to just the guy with venom (which MULTIPLE writers have done) also does a disservice to him especially when he didn't even use that stuff as often as people think he does
>>156108436Its worse than that. Crane is the worst part of any scarecrow story and the plotlines are at their best when literally anyone else stole and is using fear gas. A pair of generic thugs with gas masks and a fear smoke grenade is more threatening than Crane in full scarecrow regalia.
>>156109197Yeah, making Bane just a big steroid brute is lazy. Use Killer Croc or Clayface for that or something if you’re going that angle. It ignores what made him interesting as he’s also a very intelligent villain
>>156109837>CrocDo you know how many retards come out of the woodwork when you suggest Croc be a bad guy for five minutes? lmaoAlso, fuck it—just make every villain depiction closer to their Arkham game counterparts EXCEPT Scarecrow (I liked him in Knight though).
>>156108815>IMO, it would be great if Scarecrow stepping away from his compound to try conventional means of inducing fear would actually make it harder for the GCPD and Batman to figure out it is him.Isn't there an old arc where while at Arkham someone, maybe Harley or Joker?, call Scarecrow a one trick pony and a joke because all he has is his fear toxin, and he realizes they're right. So he sets out to prove that he's dangerous even without it, and the first thing he does is talk the prisoners in the cells next to him to kill themselves due to getting in their heads?
>>156109803The problem with writing Crane is that Fear is rarely the sole thing a villain revolves around in terms of goals. It's an emotion that is exploited in service of something else. Crane is someone who exploits fear for the sake of learning...more about fear? He needs to have specific goals or else he's just two-dimensional.here's some ideas:>Crane is deeply scared of everything and everyone. To become fearless, Crane creates fear gas and uses other humans as test subjects in order to perfect his science so that he can rid himself of fear.>Crane was born without the ability to feel fear, but feels extreme joy when scaring others. Crane discovers Gotham's urban legend of the Batman and plots to scare the Batman in hopes that the Batman can make him feel fear.
>>156108436I disagree. Mostly reasons as people here have also written, but he can be used a villain based around fear in other interesting ways.Deals with actual demons like from Constantine. Propaganda campaigns where he works for some new politician creating the perfect fear ads. Scarcity situations where the water supplies for the city are lost. The plot from the Keaton batman movie with dangerous grooming products. Throw in other drugs like the one from The Serpent and the Rainbow. Hell, go for straight up torture devices.
>>156108436He's just not a good villain
>>156108436Yes, his one and done level is only outmatched by Two Face, who literally has one singular story line.
>>156112063>Two Face, who literally has one singular story line.Ironic
>>156108436Absolute Scarecrow cracks me up because he apparently routinely walks like 80 miles barefoot from Gotham and lives in an actual corn field.
>>156112063In retrospect exhibiting that collection of 200 rare $2 coins at the Second Gotham National Bank located on the corner of Second Avenue and 22nd Street on Tuesday, February 22 was a bad idea.
>>156112258This felt very Batman: The Audio Adventures. When are they going to stop being lovers and do season 3+?
>>156112063I'd say he has two>haha I love being a jerk! >:D>oh no I don't like being a jerk! :(
>>156112063Two Face sucks too
>>156108949Then he just becomes a normal terrorist and loses his whole outlandish fear induced hallucinations gimmick.
>>156112063Two-Face has multiple stories>He does crimes based on number 2>He wants to restore his face and become normal again>Exploration of Harvey’s troubled background before turning into Two-Face and how he had issues before the acid >He becomes an temporary ally to Batman/Montoya/etc and regains a semblance of normalcy as a heroic person before the coin/something else makes him go bad again >He is a trusted arbiter in the underworld to resolve disputes/is acting like a criminal judge dispensing judgement on people he’s putting in trial Judge Dredd style>He holds a vendetta against someone personally Etc.
>>156112063You can easily make a great character out of him if you stopped writing him as just another crime boss who does crime for the sake of crime.
>>156108436Tends to sort of be the case with any cape villain.At best you can probably get 5 or so original plots out of them before you're starting to dip into the same well, or have to completely disregard the characters premise, like what happened to Joker.
>>156108436Why does have to "only" use Fear Gas? You can give him other tricks and gimmicks too, y'know.
>>156108436>scarecrow poisons Gotham in some way>batman gets to the scene of the crime>is also poisoned>sees his parents' murder>somehow beats the toxin through sheer willpower and manages to manufacture a cure>goes to fight scarecrow who is usually in some airborn vehicle>"taste of your own medicine, doctor?" is most likely uttered>scarecrow's biggest fear is BatmanEvery. Fucking. Time.
>>156112900No he doesn't.
>>156108718Give him. A fucking. Yellow. Ring. How is this not being done after nearly 80 years? We can turn Red Hood from outright villain to vigilante in a less than a decade but the guy who's whole thing is causing fear in sector 2214 can't become a Green Lantern antagonist? The fear gas is even yellow! What are they doing?!
>>156108436Just bring Scarebeast back as his trump card. Keep him a psychological threat most of the time, but let him transform into the beast when the gas doesn't work or he's backed into a corner. At least then Batman can’t just put on a gas mask and beat him up in two seconds.
>>156108436There are a few takes on Scarecrow that I've enjoyed>injustice 2 Scarecrow. Crane is just a goon in a cheap suit but when he walks around with the fear gas spraying he turns into a frightmaybe not strong enough to kill Superman but enough to trick the mind into actually thinking he's fucking you up>Arkham Knight where Crane can accurately describe the effects fear has in your body and mind and he has no emotion in his voiceThough that game he was a mere imitation of Hugo Strange. >Titans (Yes. The Fuck Batman show) Crane realises he relies too much on Fear Gas so he tries to go without it and challenges himself to just scare people without the Scarecrow get-upIt was done way better in Batman Cataclysm and Scarecrows plan in Titans was to get Jason Todd to give up Batman's secrets before defaulting to gassing the city. Kind of lame but I admire the challenge.
>>156114189He could at least become Alan Scott's arch enemy if anything because Alan resides in Gotham
>>156108436You know writers don't give a fuck about Crane because he can't even have a consistant costume. Does he want the hat? Does he want a burlap sack? Does he want hay all around him? Who knows. Mix and match it no one will notice.
>>156113149>>He is a trusted arbiter in the underworld to resolve disputes/is acting like a criminal judge dispensing judgement on people he’s putting in trial Judge Dredd styleThis. He is underused in this capacity. It should also be played up that despite formerly being a DA that most of the gotham underworld and Arkham crew kind of even like him for reasons.
>>156108436Here's the fact of the matter. Some bad guys just can't do a solo act. Like if you take Jack from the Royal Flush Gang you just have a faggot with a scepter. Or if you remove Tweedle Dee and Dum from Mad Hatter you just have two fat midgets. Scarecrow might just fall into that catagory where he's tried to be Fear itself but it's done. He should team up with someone the only question is who. Here's my picks>Mr. Freeze>Scarecrow>Catwoman>The Wizard (callback to a lesser known TV adaptation of Batman)Do you see what I'm getting at?
>>156114538The only issue is Catwoman is obviously only there as an expy for the cowardly lion.
>>156114295And all of them look good
>>156114538Catman would be a better pick tbqh
>>156114295>Writers dont care about the Batmobile because it consistently gets new designs every time it shows up in a new run
>>156114752>>156114707Might be better off just making a new character. The motivations match up enoughThe Heart= Freeze is promosed a cure for his wife and he's more machine than humanThe Brain= Crane is promised the ability to cause more fear although this could be twisted so he's the expy for "The Nerve"But there aren't enough cat themed villains. It would have to be someone like Ted Grant's son or Cheetah
>>156114771To be honest...
>>156109889Yeah. Absolute Fear was a 2 parter in Detective Comics around the time Dini was writing the title (the era with the B&W covers). It was a great concept but executed a little poorly.
>>156108436Just give him a yellow lantern ring. It significantly elevates his capabilities and threat level, and they could do some really creative things by mixing the fear gas hallucinations with the ring's physical constructs. They should have let him keep it permanently after the Blackest Night event, he was so fun with it.
>>156112027What would've made him a better villain?
>>156108490I feel more like he should be the foil to batman he is so obviously set up as. Batman knows criminals and humans generally are ruled by fear, and he uses fear to control the wicked and inspire the good. Scarecrow should be basically an ideological opposite, who wants to prove all humans can be reduced to their selfish and fearful instincts but that no good can be drawn out of it. Him and batman have weirdly similar approaches to terror and it’s never really explored.
>>156108436He doesn't even resemble a crow
>>156109139Wrong.
>>156118335Almost all of Batman's villains are a weird mirrored version of him in some way
>>156108436Sure.
>>156114538There are a lot of villains that just work best as mid bosses and a lot of Anons in these threads HATE it when you point that out. Sometimes a character pulls dimes but not enough to be the main event and theres nothing wrong about that.
>>156119387Does Ivy count? Is he really into gardening or something?
>>156114699Catwoman is there for raw unprotected sex
>>156109106What appearance is that?I'd argue that Prey is the appearance that I think about the most but I've also read his first couple of appearances in the late 30s.
>>156121266His dedication to his crusade has made him more animal than man. Ivy represents what happens when you just let go and become the thing. But then again you could say this about Freeze. She may be similar to baddies like the Cavalier, Clayface, and Calander Man don't fall into that "broken mirror" catagory.
I like the idea of an Oz gang to rival the Wonderland gang. I especially like that it would mean Batman is the Wicked Witch in that scenario the same as Hatter sees him as Alice.
>>156108436No, they just don't have good writers these days. You can do a lot with Scarecrow just like you can do a lot with Superman.
>>156108885There's probably a few different ways you could play it but I foresee them being obnoxiously cringe in the have of modem writers.One extremely easy way of doing it would be showing Crane manipulatibg others. You can let the artists go nuts with him terrorizing people with hallucinations and also diving into personal drama with other characters because he could be hitting them with fear toxin and making them think he's and character from their past like a childhood friend they saw die or an abusive ex or etc. Crane's super easy because even if knowledge of his toxin is widespread fear it's still really hard to deal with. If most people just saw their kitchen sink suddenly turn into a realistic cobra and try to murder them they'd freak out and he could use that to control a lot of people.
>>156108436In every Scarecrow story someone “dies” but we know they’re not dead because this is a Scarecrow story and Batman’s obviously just hallucinating from fear gas.
>>156110157Man, you could have a villain like Deadshot and modern writers would be like: "it's impossible to write him because he just has a gun! He's useless at close combat and like he only has so many bullets. Plus he can't can't shoot through walls super well there's just nothing to work with but also he only has a gun because when he was a kid he got bullied by two kids named Smith and Wesson for having an overactive imagination and they threw him down a well with rats in it and he kept trying to shoot the rats with his pretend finger guns and then when he got out he decided he was going to get a real gun so that would never happen again!" Like they just can't do anything
>>156112063No one knows how to write a character with a tic, they just have the tic the entire plot and characterization.
Bump. Thread needs to stay alive till Halloween
>>156114189He had one during Blackest Night, it was pretty cool.
>>156108555So do some small scale shit. Gotham doesn't need to be in existential peril every bloody week, have him take over a Rental Car joint and change all the cars to speay Fear Toxin from thr AC.
>>156108436You could apply that to most of Batman's rogue gallery. Two Face, Mad Hatter, Poison Ivy, etc. They basically had to throw lesbian shit at Ivy to spice up her character.
>>156125161Man Bat had a stint where he was on Team Batman.
>>156114211He technically still has the ability to turn into Scarebeast, writers just forgot about it/quietly ignore it lol
>>156114211>Just bring Scarebeast backNO.
>>156108718Don't do it, magic Scarecrows suck the worst.
