Fix it
>>156086633Fixit is a micromaster not a beast machine you idiot
>>156086633Retcon it out of existence.
I would just make Transtech and use it to iron things out. Technoorganic doesn’t mean just making Transformers fleshy and weak, it’s giving their mechanics the versatility of organic without the limitations; I.e. the ability to self-repair, ability to more more fluidly, the ability to think more dynamically, process different fuel sources, all powered with the endurance and strength of tech. They can even take vehicle forms boosted with beast attributes, not just beast modes. Have the beast era cast interact with G1 characters unifying both sides of the brand at the time, and basically giving them both a future.
>>156086633Megatron is no longer the main villain but someone else and he's now apart of the hero team with some Maximals being for him being with them and some against him being with them
>>156086852Like Savage Noble?
>>156086633Can't
>>156086633No. Let it remain forgotten like it deserves.
They go back to Cybertron and it's similar to the start where Megatron gets off the ship and arrives before them. Then when they land they don't get a welcoming party but are instead placed under arrest, the Predacons now in total control.Keeping as much as possible, when they scan it is revealed that Silverbolt was actually a Predacon falsely appearing as protoform, and his name is Jetstorm. He's released from prison and his partner Thrust meets him, making BA seethe.BA gets out of prison by lying and saying she was forced into being a Maximal, and that if they check her memory banks they'll see how she nearly died before the conversion. Rattrap and Cheetor seethe and get mad at her for lying the whole time and betraying them now it's convenient. Rhinox smiles, knowing its a ploy.Meanwhile, Primal is in interrogation, and Megatron enters to gloat.Episode 1 ends with an explosion shaking the prison...Scenes include Rattrap taking Cheetor to what used to be a titty bar before it closed down, and Rattrap laments that he couldn't bring Cheetor back to the world that he had.
>>156088218Basically I want to keep as much from Beast Machines as possible rather than just go "make a new story entirely lol". Silverbolt's identity crisis being one of them.Basically swap out the weird psuedo religious stuff for something more political, so its still a "serious" series.
>>156086633SimulationThe whole series was a Vok simulation. With the Earth experiment ruined they intercepted the escape shuttle and decided to study Megatron and the Maximals to see if they could control the variable that wrecked everything. Thats why almost everyone acts a little different. Their impulses and motivations were forcibly altered to suit the Vok's desirable outcome. They assimilation of the Transformers species. You can even keep the new characters. Just say they were abducted separately. .
>>156088290Would probably work for a first half of the series, but that would be a mid-story twist before the outcomes are decided.
>>156086633go back to the Transmetal and Transmetal 2 base designs, those were already fusions of organic and technology, with the third vehicle forms representing techYou can still do the storyline where they lose most of their guns and weapons and need to learn to fight againthe Vehicon Generals being Rhinox, Silverbolt and Waspinator was great, change nothing thereKeep Nightscream but make him a girl instead, like Nox from the recent Beast Wars comicHave the Allspark converse with Primal through the image of dead transformers from Beast Wars, Dinobot, Depthcharge, Tigatron, Airazor, and even Predacons like Terrorsaur, Scorponok, Tarantulus, Inferno, Quickstrike and Rampage. Reusing their cg models.And after Tankor's arc, as Rhinox and TankorAnd then maybe design new models for Gen 1 Autobots and Decepticons for guest appearances tooBring back Ravage again, leading the other Cassettes and Dinobots as a third party. He doesn't completely reject Beast aspects in their alt modes, so he's been waging a rebellion on Cybertron as well. But they don't want to go organic either, so they can't really align with Primal's group, make it a 3 way Beast-Machine war
>>156086907no like regular Beast Wars Megatron
>>156088470>go back to the Transmetal and Transmetal 2 base designs, those were already fusions of organic and technologyThe Best Machines Maximal designs should've been something like Gigatron/RiD2001 Megatron. He feels like an evolved Transmetal in concept, smooth and sleek but his organic and technological aspects are balanced.
The entirety of Beast Machines could, with a removal of padding, fit into the first 13 episodes.The question would be what to do with the second half.
>>156088218>>156088267Would probably work as a YA novel. BA bullshitting to get out of prison would be great.>>156088290I'm tired of "all in le head" stories, so you'd have to go somewhere unique with it.>>156088470The Allspark talking through dead friends and enemies is great. Dinobot would probably be the form they pick it was to be a single one though, perhaps Tigatron or Airazor appearing as a "two bodies one voice" thing where they talk each other's lines to get a full sentence. Like:>T: The time>A: has come for>T: the culmination of>A: aeons of history.Not sure how to make the vehicon generals being Rhinox, Silverbolt, and Waspinator, work without it basically rendering them out of character.
>>156086633Botanica is secretly a herald of Unicron
>>156088324How about this? They're discovered and awakened by a human research team on the trail of the golden disk. The think they're on an archeology mission by one of them is trying to find something that was hidden on the disk. And with the disc destroyed only Megatron could possibly know it about. Ravage 2.0. They all escape the Vok and make a beeline for Cybertron to try and warn them but not before Megatron escapes with the human spy. They rest of the series is a war on two fronts. the Vok on Cybertron and Megatron's new army on future Earth.
>>156086633Swap out Megatron with the Quints Swap out Oracle for Primus Make Nightscream a little girl
>>156088876Make Nightscream the reborn spark of Starscream
>>156086633Let the writers watch the previous show
You could fix a lot just changing the setting rather than the "story". Like have it be still populated so the Vehicons are basically Stasi, which would make it so Silverbolt might actually do something he'd feel guilt over, and Rhinox is just glad that the fighting between Predacons and Maximals have stopped even if it means they're both oppressed.
>>156088584Do what the Wreckers comic did and have the Quintessons be behind the technorganic reformatting as their plan to retake Cybertron, with Cryotek allied with them for his own plans.
>>156086633I can't speak for its writing since I haven't watched it and I KNOW that beyond all the alleged character assassinations there must be some of that Mainframe quality buried deep in there, so I'll just say they could've ditched the horrid overly humanoid designs and leaned more towards early BW's mild body horror aspect by adding more fleshy details to the robot forms beyond just giving them gut weapons (something like picrel)
Cut the Silverbolt/Jetstorm story entirely and have his and Blackarachnia's story being the acting parents of Nightscream (now a younger girl that's cute but needs a guiding hand).
>>156089114>>156088876They wanted Nightscream to be a Newt-style female bot, but the higher-ups said no.
>>156089137And we're saying yes.>>156089114Total boymom and girldad couple.
>>156088584Play with that weird BM bio angle where the Dinobots exist, the events of BW II/Neo happened so Magamatron returned to Cybertron during Beast Machines and joined the Dinobots, etc. I'm assuming in this scenario there's no budget for new molds so they have to work with whatever toys were on the slate and Japanese toys they had, maybe at most making remolds.Remold some Animorphs figures into alien beasts as Transorganics. imply that Megatron's experiments with Savage/Noble came from researching them and the ending of BM awakened them, so now they're wild and multiplying and the Maximals have to basically do the opposite of BM and fight and tame these wild beasts. Maybe bring in some unused G2 molds/BWII Galvatron as purely tech based villains. You could even import some Car Robots characters for returning Autobots, like make Fire Convoy a future version of G1 Optimus and have them be unable to become technorganic for whatever reason, so they remain as an old guard to help out.
>>156089114>>156089153>>156089137Also Nightscream should be a Predacon so she's a bit rebellious and now both of them have to use their own experience to get her to straighten up
>>156086633>Replace waspinator with rattrap for Thrust. That's it.Beast Machines Megatron is an under appreciated villain and it's still the peak of TF in terms of narrative ambition and consistency.It just fucking sucks as the cannon end of G1.
>>156089245That's cool. Really I just like the idea of, among all this really important shit going down, like the whole Allspark stuff, Cheetor's growth and eventual leadership, etc. there's this far smaller story that explains why any of that stuff even matters.
>>156089316Beast Machines is really fascinating in that it's NEARLY something that should be remembered as literally one of the best series ever, but it stumbles so much in so many small ways that it all adds up to a total failure.They would have been better served by one massive mistake than 100 smaller ones.
>>156088218Primal's overly peaceful demands would make sense if it's basically an attempt from Maximals to violently re-assert themselves.
>>156089316The canon ending of G1 is Car Robots. The legends manga established that BWII and beyond take place thousands of years after Beast Machines.
>>156089410Isn't Car Robots its own separate continuity that has nothing to do with everything else?
>>156086633After they become organic they should have huge tits and dicks and fuck.
>>156089519Yes. Takara used it to hard reboot the Transformers brand due to their lack of confidence in Transtech
>>156086633I mean literally just needs 3 changes and it's fine.>Fix the ugly ass designs that people didn't like>Change the characters to be more in line with Beast Wars, except maybe Cheetor. Good arc that one overallAnd>Restore the dropped plotline with Silverbolt and Blacharachnia adopting a little girl version of Nightscream.Do that and you've solved every problem. Optimus, Rattrap and Megatron wildly out of character? Fixed. Weird ass "Not actually transforming" transformations? Fixed. Blackarachnia not really having anything to do in the latter half of the series and Silverbolt barely even registering? Fixed. The baseline is fine, Megatron escapes and takes over Cybertron before the Maximals gets back, now they have to overthrow him. It's the weird need to cram characters who don't fit into the odd "He totally hates organics!" thing that really hurt the storyline. They acted wildly out of character just because they had to push that message, if they act more like the versions people actually liked better then the story would be fine. Simple, sure, but fine. It also fixes most of the worst episodes, like the Rattrap transforms one, because the rattrap from Beast Wars was just as dangerous when he had no weapons as he did with any gun. He jimmyrigged a way to blow up a fucking spaceship and rode it down to the ground, an in character version of the episode would be amazing to see him go all out like he has in the past.It's not that the base idea was bad, it's not that all of the ideas were bad, it was that they wanted to tell a story with characters who didn't fit the placeholders they'd shoved them into.
>>156086633Okay.. It's possible, but it'd be a lot of work.>>156086812yeah, BW was already headed there. they had limited biofunctions.
>Have Optimus save Dinobot at the end of Beast Wars (and have the Maximals take Waspinator from the proto-humans)>Have Waspinator, Rhinox and Silverbolt be wayward sparks that possess vehicon drones (meaning you can still have the generals)
>>156089354Very well-said.>>156089863yeah Cheetor's the only one who worked out okay.I had no idea about the adoption part, that's adorable. wee girl bat. especially if she turns into a honduran white bat.
>>156089114It really is a pity they cut that, because it truly would've been a wholly unique thing in the setting that would perfectly fit the two characters and also progress their well established relationship in a way we don't really have with another character in a similar setting. Blackarachnia has a very unique history with being evil and "Programming" someone to act a certain way, Silverbolt has a real problem with being strict to those he cares about, both are overall good people but neither would know how to be nurturing out the gate. The setup was there, the setting was perfect, and they instead made one of the least liked transformers of all time. Truly a far too often case of spinning shit from gold.
>>156089970>and they instead made one of the least liked transformers of all timeI love how much the TF wiki dumps on Nightscream.
>>156086747/thread no notes
>>156089519The dub is. Car Robots in Japan is part of G1.
>>156088218Is Thrust a girl here?
>>156089901>>Have Optimus save Dinobot at the end of Beast WarsBut that would go against Based Dinobot's wishes of avoiding the cruel fate of turning into a techno-organic abomination that he knew he'd receive through his impeccable foresight
>>156089410>>156089519Even then that isn't really true, Car Robots took place in 2000, where as the JP G1 continuity goes on for decades after. There's even an explanation why the Season 1/2 G1 cast weren't on Earth back then from a later manga.>>156089835No, this is all conjecture from American fans back then. It was never a reboot, it's just another loose continuity series like Japan does with an IP like Ultraman where there's series that could be reboots but end up in the same old continuity(and to be fair, there are a few Ultraman reboots). It was already in production in '98, before Beast Wars Metals underperformed in Japan or Beast Machines in the US, so it likely was just made as another gap filler until BM got 26 episodes and could fit in a Japanese kid's TV season.The continuity initially planned for it did get minimized, but that's the case for BWII too which barely acknowledges US Beast Wars besides the movie special. Fire Convoy was designed as another Convoy, the same as Lio Convoy and Big Convoy. He even was initially going to have a Maximal symbol(note that Autobots and Maximals are both just called Cybertrons in Japan)
>>156090080Yeah. Don't worry, no gayness. I just kinda like the idea of testing Silverbolt's "goodness" on things that aren't just "be a hero" or "be a villain".
Fire all designersRedo it too be a combination of beastmetal fuzors and vehiclesMake them come to cybertron with a full on civil war taking place.Primal dissapears because he's been infused with powers to the matrix and begins his vision quest. He becomes an upgraded tripple changerRhinox stays the courseCheetor becomes defacto leadRattrap was part of the wreckers and semi-retired after a battle in a colony ended with a ton of destructionBlack arachnia has culture shock and doesn't know who she is and is treated poorly because she was a predaconSilverbolt partially remembers his old life and is revealed to be a predacon spy, jetfire. Waspinators spark was partially changed by his fusion with starscream giving him a nearly immortal sparkNightscream is a girl and isn't ugly as fuck, a bit of a bratty cunt and street urchin. She and BA but heads and has an obvious sweetspot for cheetor.Primal begins to commune with vector sigma and with the spirits of long dead transformers all the way back to the first ancient spark. A technoorganic tree grows from the growing sea of rust and begins to reformat transformers dying from cosmic rust and energon depletion. The vok, the predecessor race of the quintessons, are coming and they must prepare for their first attack. Second season happens after the vok sends in their soldiers a race of mutated/upgraded transformers ala tigerhawk. Amongst them waspinator and a few old names. All from the cybertron collonies. The first attack is a massive energon wave that cripples most of the planet save for the leads and many who were lucky, immune because of being unicron descendents with the majority being those who decided to follow primal and reformat out of choice or need. The time of rebuilding is interrupted by the first wave of the voks attack.
>>156090705Did you just run the thread though chatgpt and tell it to summarize it?
There's a lot of inherent problems to Beast Machines before you even get into the characterization.The characters are ugly as fuck. The Maximal cast are some of the worst designs to come out of the franchise, and that obviously impacted the toys.It doesn't help that they all magically shapeshift, so clearly no thought went into how they'd actually transform, a cardinal sin for Transformers.And the model quality somehow got worse after Beast Wars. Characters like Optimus Primal and Silverbolt look fish-eyed and barely look like they can even see straight ahead, which is especially bad when the show loves doing dramatic close-ups.And they don't really sell you very well on the concept of technorganics. BW already played around with similar concepts in Transmetals, while everything in BM feels like a downgrade. How were kids supposed to get hyped over Rattrap becoming a cripple or Primal becoming so much weaker his old Optimal body could manhandle him?It's no surprise people remember the Vehicons as the show's saving grace, they largely avoid all these problems. But then there's the fact that they replaced the Predacons as the enemy faction. The showrunners being uninterested in continuing the political plot threads from BW is disappointing but understandable. The show awkwardly avoiding mentioning the Predacons at all for marketing reasons is much more annoying.And strangest of all, the show's plot happens all because the Maximals decided to tie up Megatron on the outside of their ship. The entire premise of the grimdark sequel is based on a small gag from BW's ending.
>>156090806>And strangest of all, the show's plot happens all because the Maximals decided to tie up Megatron on the outside of their ship. The entire premise of the grimdark sequel is based on a small gag from BW's ending.In my idea started here >>156088218 that was going to be part of what Megatron says to Primal. Sort of a "I bet you had a good laugh at that. Not laughing now are you? Yeess..."Also there will be at least 3 "Yes"s an episode.My thinking was actually that instead of the story being about spirituality that's about as deep as an Enigma album the themes are about history and the future. History being both personal and social.The whole idea that "it's a straight swap" was going to be revealed as a back hand deal between elites who decided to swap the hierarchy is a bit of a joke so that the system doesn't get rejected entirely to stop separatism. The "bottom group" being represented as a cynical "necessity" from the shadowy groups we see briefly in Beast Wars.Them being robots means that things like memories can be restored or removed easily, so a big thing will be Silverbolt having to decide whether to regain his memories of his past Jetstorm or not.
>>156089354Beast Machines is better written and WAY better plotted than most cartoons of the era. Skir understood he had 26 episodes and made use of it. There is a lot of dragging in Season 1 but the story moves and ends which very few other shows of the era can say. The big problem with Beast Machines is that it's part of a franchise, a sequel that's very different from the last series and came out at a time where there was a lot of angst that we were never going to get traditional vehicle Transformers ever again. It got compounded with 2001 being a wilderness year where Takara had no new TF product, only G1 reissues and attempted to do Webdiver, and Hasbro only had the import of RiD coming with Transtech cancelled. People thought Transformers might've actually been over for a second.
>>156090957ah yes, datatrax. I kinda love how cybertrons work in this pocket of the setting. They have onboard computers, but they also have their own separate personality, which thinks at human speed. and if they want to interact with their own bodies, they have to use vocal commands or tap something on their forearm or something. so they feel a lot more like real people, not just machines.>>156090806perfectly stated. I almost think you looked up a past post of mine and repeated it.It annoyed me so much seeing where CGI went once Toy Story made 'ugly' the new hotness. (and to some extent, iron giant, hercules, emperor's new groove, all the dreamworks movies, etc)ReBoot had such nice faces.. normal facial features.. then suddenly Action Man and Max Steel came out and they looked hideous.
>>156090798...No, jeet anon. You see there's a such thing as being able to write and think. You should try doing that instead of offloading your dwindling higher brain functions to a chatbot.
>>156091331It's well written, but the concepts character and plotting is pants on head retarded. It's the prettiest turd in the toilet.
>>156091397It was the fact that you mentioned things that until this thread no one would ever have come up with.For some examples:>Silverbolt partially remembers his old life and is revealed to be a predacon spy, jetfire. Why would you ever "think" of this unless >>156088218 mentioned it, since its never been mentioned before, and is basically a nonsense retcon?
>>156091441So?It's a good idea. And it reminded me that nearly all of the new cast are maximals who had their own lives before they were reformatted on earth.What's wrong with using a good idea or being inspired by an idea to make something else?
>>156091482they all had their own previous lives in beast wars, syndication just demanded they never talk about it, even though it ended up feeling so weird that a lot of people somehow got the impression that protoforms were babiesbecause that's how you do a research mission, right? Load your cargo up with a couple hundred babies, take them to a planet, wake them up, "what is my function?" "you research alien plants"
>>156086633I don't think they can.I don't mean that in the sense of "It's not possible to do better", but when I watched the Netflix trilogy recently it kind of struck me that the people who COULD do it better aren't there anymore. The ones who made the powerful, emotional episodes like Code of a Hero or who thought Blackarachnia falling for the Paladin character charming simply don't exist in that writers space anymore, they've been kicked off, beat down and shouted out. They redid pretty much all of the highlight scenes from Beast Wars in the third movie, and they did it so jarringly worse in every regard I can only imagine they weren't capable of better. Their shitty version of Code of a Hero was just what they were capable of, the brash and snarling Dinobot was too harsh for their tastes so they had to make him scared of Starscream and Blackarachnia in his introduction. BW Megatron's suave intelligence replaced by a bumbling fanboy gushing over the original Megatron and fucking up every plan is just what they could do at their best.It's depressing looking back on the character fuckups of Beast Machines and realizing this wasn't even close to as bad as it could get. Megatron being an organic hating constantly shouting guy is still leagues better than what they made later, and I can't imagine another try would end up better. It wasn't great, it wasn't even good in a lot of ways, but Beast Machines might be the ceiling of this part of the franchise.
>>156091350The thing is I just like Silverbolt having to deal with a shattering of his ideals, and more importantly his ideals of himself. It also poses an interesting question as to whether he is even that person any more at a literal level considering that they're robots. IS, in this idea, Silverbolt actually Jetstorm or isn't he?In my head as I think of this idea he ends up having the decision made for him, where Jetstorm would know something that no one else who would tell them does, so he has to take the memories back to inform his friends of this information.The conceit will be that they're encrypted based on his unique protoform "serial number" so no one else could access the memories even if they wanted to. Blackarachnia probably gets re-re-formatted as a Predacon and adapts quite well, but shes a changed person and it doesn't really change her fundamentally because she's been here and done it all before.In my idea Thrust is now part of the secret police, and by extension Silverbolt and Blackarachnia. Their role is basically to find out where the guerrilla Maximal base (which after the break out at the end of Episode 1 freed the BW characters by mistake, since really the rebels were after another group because why would anyone care about them?) is. But of course SB and BA was to find this as well so they can join their friends.Rattrap, being a devious scoundrel, secretly comes to collude with BA to throw the Preds off their tracks.
>>156091556>somehow got the impression that protoforms were babiesKinda? It's very odd in the show because they unironically treat them like that. Inferno in general doesn't make a lot of sense unless you treat him like a blank slate. Pretty much only Quickstrike is there to remind you "hey, they had a history you know, and some of them were total assholes."
>>156091556Exactly, that's the point. I've would wonder who they were sometimes, but I stopped wondering about that after a while and just accepted that they were new transformers. Airrazor, and then later depthcharge(i can only vaguely recall if he was in a protoform state) and protoform x are the only ones who retained their original personality and memories if I'm remembering correctly. They even made a point about rescuing the protoforms before they were reformatted by megatron or were injured or damaged and metaphorically died. This was a big portion of the story now that I'm thinking about it. There is a lot of story potential there and I specifically talk about silverbolt and black arachnias history and identities because of it.
>>156091608>The thing is I just like Silverbolt having to deal with a shattering of his ideals, and more importantly his ideals of himself. It also poses an interesting question as to whether he is even that person any more at a literal level considering that they're robots.This doesn't work with Silverbolt or Quickstrike, the two of them not being reprogrammed and instead choosing their path of good and villainy is a major part of their introductory episode. He already was challenged with the idea of "This is who you are" in that episode and decided wholly of his own free will that he'd rather be on the other side, while opposite him Quickstrike decided he actually really liked shooting innocent people. Like it's not a bad idea, but it already happened in the show and he came to the conclusion "I don't care what people tell me to do, it's wrong and I'm going to fight to the end to prove it."
>Blackarachnia was a Maximal reformatted as a Predacon>Silverbolt was a Predacon reformatted as a MaximalAlso Blackarachnia, because she's not-so secretly a huge dork should have a history as something like a librarian.
>>156091727Forgot my pottery.
>>156091609You're forgetting that they are oft injured on re-entry and are suffering from memory loss and personality change or changed by predacon programming. Remember tigatron and his personality change from being around the snow tigers and being injured on re-entry.And quickstrike and silverbolt being changed?What about the tragic Transmutate? She was a worse case scenario for what could happen to protoforms in transformers.
>>156091715That's kinda the point of the set up though isn't it? Isn't the ideal spy one that doesn't know they're a spy. That's why they kept Jetstorm's memories, because they were going to intend to give them back to him at some point.
>>156091609Explicitly they ARE essentially babies. Well, some of them. For example Quickstrike/Silverbolt/Airrazor/Tigertron did NOT get reprogrammed or fucked with when they popped out of their pods, but don't seem to remember anything about their lives before going in said pod. Rampage likewise has his whole backstory of being implanted with a spark that was an attempt to replicate Starscreams immortal one, with his name being "Protoform X" to designate it, and he likewise doesn't seem to have a history at all prior to this and they treat him more as a frankenstien experiment gone wrong than someone who was wronged. The only ones who seem to remember cybertron were those already awake when the ship got hit, like Rattrap and Rhinox, and even then Cheetor doesn't seem to know fuckall about the place. The Stasis Pods pretty much act like a gacha machine where you just pop out fully aware of what you're supposed to do once you get your random scanning.
>>156091727Silverbolt was a maximal protoform. They all are maximal protoforms. He was only found first by the predacons. He, like another anon said, chose to become a maximal.
>>156091768>You're forgetting that they are oft injured on re-entry and are suffering from memory loss and personality change or changed by predacon programming.But Airrazor wasn't injured and she's the same way, she doesn't know her own history. Also you're forgetting blank protoforms exist, one of them was used to bring Primal back to life.
>>156091793Not to get all "the novelization answers this" but there are comics that show that Airrazor and Tigatron already met on Cybertron.
>>156091421>but the concepts character and plotting is pants on head retarded.the concept of a robotic race merging organic elements is fine, it's sort of the reverse of transhumanismThe characters would be fine if they weren't the BW characters; on their own it's reasonable why someone given Rattrap's body would be really upset or why Primal would be obsessed with the Oracle as the key to everythingThe plotting indeed is rough early on but the pace becomes brisk in season 2 and I'd even argue the end of season 1. The problem is that it's BM, the sequel to beast Wars in the Transformers universe which at this point is really only G1, BW, and this. It's simply not what most fans wanted
>>156091797>Silverbolt was a maximal protoform. They all are maximal protoforms.I think the implication is he was a plant from the predacons, which could work? He didn't have a memory when he woke up. Again though the issue would be repeating a character arc he already finished in 2 episodes.>You are actually bad, your programming says so!>Nuh uh fuck you I'mma fight for good and talk like thisWe did that dance already. The only way to flip it would be to play into the predacons got the short end of the stick idea and make it so he WAS always that goofy ass heroic type, but for predacons he now feels he betrayed.
>>156091793They really aren't. It's more of a stasis pod where they are left in a state where they can gain new forms on whatever planet they show up on. Changing their memories and personality has to do with injuries during re-entry, being damaged in the fight with the predacons ship, being around too much energon or predacon programming. Most had lives before that. Some may be embryonic and gain sentience upon waking up in a new world. But that doesn't have any historical proof to back it. From the show it's assumed that they are all merely in stasis/rescue pods and in their vulnerable state they can have a whole host of things happen to them that can change who and what they are.
>>156086633annihilation is the only fix.
>>156091831I said oft. Not all of them. She is the best case scenario for protoforms reawakening. And she is the only case. As for the blank protoform, it was essentially dead.It was a protoform shell without a spark.They used the stasis pod and the "soul-less" body to give Primal a new one.
Everyone forgets that when Tarantulas kills Blackarachnia, Silverbolt goes full blood knight and sticks one of his dagger-things in the ground and is going to impale Tarantulas while howling like a fucking psycho.
>>156091876>They really aren't. It's more of a stasis pod where they are left in a state where they can gain new forms on whatever planet they show up on.But nothing in the show backs this up, we don't have any who pop out and seem to know what any of this is. Every single one that emerges, even ones who didn't have their memories messed with and instead only had external issues like the DNA scanners, just acts like they just woke up to a whole new world.>But that doesn't have any historical proof to back it. Opposite, and I can prove it with the multiple "Empty" protoforms they found, one of which was used to bring back Optimus. What we don't have is a character who came out of the pod and, in show, mentioned remembering Cybertron.
>>156091919Killing evil doers is good, actually.
>>156091556>they all had their own previous lives in beast wars, syndication just demanded they never talk about it, even though it ended up feeling so weird that a lot of people somehow got the impression that protoforms were babiesI never thought they were meant to be pre-existing, Rampage is meant to be a special case and there's no indication of it for anyone else. I don't know why all the external stuff like the Botcon comics ran with this idea that they were pre-existing, Rhinox's whole Spark monologue in Airazor's debut episode frames it like this is meant to be a birth of a new being, not just reawakening an existing crew mate, Cheetor even calls her protoform a "new" robot specifically, not that they're saving an existing one. >because that's how you do a research mission, right? Load your cargo up with a couple hundred babies, take them to a planet, wake them up, "what is my function?" "you research alien plants"Yeah that's kinda how Transformers work. They get built and are basically expected to go into the forever war or whatever situation. They made the Aerialbots and told them to start shooting basically immediately. The Dinobots were made because Wheeljack thought dinosaurs were cool and now they're just existing beings.
>>156091911>I said oft. Not all of them.All of them have the same issue of not knowing thing one about Cybertron, all of them. The only ones who remember Cybertron were awake when the ship crashed.>It was a protoform shell without a spark.Exactly, which means it was supposed to have been given a spark, otherwise it would've floated away like the other sparks we see.>They used the stasis pod and the "soul-less" body to give Primal a new one.One who had never been given a soul.
>>156091857That's just it. It's not him being bad and a spy, it's an entirely different transformer personality and life he has to deal with. Which side of the war he's on and what hat he's wearing isn't the real...thrust behind this. Although it is on the surface and in a larger sense when you consider the story. How the character feels about it and how the relationships change is.Him being treated as a vicious predacon and spy by the maximals would have been intersting. Who he was before and his real mission before he became silverbolt is the real meat. Jetstorm being his OG personality and it beginning to resurface occasionally would be interesting
I think the idea that started this was that Silverbolt's protoform wasn't a "real" protoform.
>>156091919Nah that scene was awesome, but it was also supposed to be a mirror of her bringing out the worst in him sometimes, only for her to immediately show he brought out the best in her.
>>156091954Airrazor remembers them and cybertron if I recall.Protoform X remembers everything before he was entombed. And the blank protoforms are protoforms where their spark is missing or irrevocably damaged.
>>156091979Airazor gave ever indication that she knew about cybertron. The new person thing is about gaining a new body.She's who she was before landing on earth but changed into someone else. And you can CLEARLY see sparks in the protoforms from the very beginning. No spark means it's dead. Remember. A transformer is dead unless it has a spark...or lazercore as it was referred to in G1.
>>156091919Normally noble and even tempered knights/warriors/noblemen becoming enraged and swearing bloody brutal revenge is as old as human history.
>>156091992>Him being treated as a vicious predacon and spy by the maximals would have been intersting.Now see I could see that if only to contrast the BW maximals would absolutely be on his side and back him up. Rattrap in particular has done this dance with an actual Predacon and he would be damned if he was going to let Chopperface’s memory be sullied like that. Seeing his tiny ass get into scraps over someone calling one of his friends a spy would be worth it. >>156092020>Airrazor remembers them and cybertron if I recall.The comics implied she did but there’s nothing in any of her far too few episodes to even imply that. As far as we know she’s as blank as Silverbolt in show>Protoform X remembers everything before he was entombed.Right but he was online when that happened. What he doesn’t seem to know is before this since he seemingly was made just for the experiment where he went on a rampage. Like Optimus his mutant spark was crammed in a blank and he woke up deciding he was going to find the nearest thing and kill it.
>>156092113Airazor acts as if she's known them for years and has dropped hints if i recall. She remembers and is the best case scenario.The fact that Rampage remembers before he was entombed gives more evidence that they all had lives and memories before they were put into the escape pod/stasis pods. The fact that he doesn't talk about or remember much before he became a monster doesn't mean he doesn't recall life before he was put into a stasis pod. And NO his mutant spark WASNT crammed into a dead protoform at any point. His entire thing was that his spark was experimented on to make it LIKE star screams. We have no idea if the experiments made him into a monster or if he was always a monster and he was made worse because of it. All we know is that he has memories of his decades of horror movie level evil and destruction before he was sealed away and sent out to be dumped on some hell scape. He was never put in a blank protoform. He was litterally called protoform X not spark X.You might be confused because of how often megatron brought out that chunk of Rampage's spark to torture to keep him in line.
Depth Charge and Rampage's final scene is so fucking kino.>Rampage laughing because he has made Depth Charge into a monsterA series delving into morality and how loose it is like what's discussed isn't out of order for a Beast Wars sequel.
>>156091570>all the best people are driven out of every industrywell spluh.>>156091608considering that his initial personality was just whatever person he was before being put into the pod, plus brain damage, minus memories... yeah, that is a very valid thing to investigate about ac haracter.>>156091609They explicitly said they lost their memories, either from a crash, or (in the rare cases there was no crash, e.g. inferno) because tarantulas's reprogramming fucked shit up during a really important part of un-protoforming and going back to normal.
>>156091666depth charge was never a protoform, he showed up normally and got transmetalized while on the way in. but yeah, Rampage was. They just turned him into one, because that's what it is: a stasis form. you go into it for long trips, to save on energon (something we're told is very scarce lately). And it's great, as long as your ship doesn't crash, something which normal cybertrons can survive just fine, but protoforms would die from it, so they have to be ejected and you have to just HOPE they land okay after orbiting.>>156091715it is disturbing that quickstrike just.. chose evil. who the fuck was he before?>>156091793>>156091831tigatron and airazor did get damaged on the way in. silverbolt and quickstrike got damaged WAY, way worse. that was the entire thing about them, and why they ended up fuzors.
>>156091977this>>156091954that's my point. yes there are blanks, but unfortunately for PLOT reasons, nobody talks about the past lives that they all-but-explicitly had.>>156091978why would rampage be a special case? how would you turn someone into a baby? and if that was possible, wouldn't that just be enough to solve the problem?
>>156088218>his partner Thrust meets him
>>156092198exactly. also? Cheetor is treated as a kid. we see him grow up as the show goes on. The pod guys are all treated as adults. they are obviously later in their life cycle. Cheetor's crush on BA is treated as him being into an older woman who's out of his league, and that's two bodies in, when he's decidedly in 'macho older teen' mode.From the storytelling clues, this is a very interesting setup.. a mission's entire crew is put into stasis, with only three guys left conscious: the leader, the stalwart right-hand-man tech-savvy guy, and the kid who probably just whined into being allowed to tag along (and in fact may have stowed away like he's fucking Spritle and Chim-Chim). Then they hired a cantankerous middle-aged freighter captain a la Han Solo, to fly them to a planet, where they are presumably going to be stranded until he comes back to pick them up again. his ship is way too small to hold a crew that size without stasis, they'd be in there like fucking Amistad shit.then they crash and now the poor captain is kinda press-ganged into their war, waiting on the rest of the crew to wake up, since they SHOULD be outnumbering the bad guys significantly. But that whole crash thing kinda set that back. and in the end, like 95% of the crew just dies without a second thought. even if you think they're babies, that's kind of worse
>>156086633It has some interesting moments when it actually feels like a beast wars sequel. Making a bunch of the BW cast have their souls corrupted and trapped in the drones was pretty cool, and rhinox becoming an antagonist was actually heart breaking. The show was too infuriating with the hippy trippy peace message though, having the maximals be ultra pacifics with no real weapons was so annoying. Wasinpator showing up out of nowhere is actually one of the best transformers moments though
>>156092333His spark is "twisted". No matter what he becomes he will always be fucked up.That's the thing about him.His entire thing with transmetal was that he found a kindred spirit in her. Someone made into something to fear or different by forces outside of their control. This speaks to the underlying psychology of Rampage/Protoform X the monster cybertron made. Some part of me now thinks that he sought to redeem himself through her. Something else occured to me. He might have been seeking to reaffirm his entire existence by making her into a monster like him.
>>156092198>Airazor acts as if she's known them for years and has dropped hints if i recall.No she doesn't. She has absolutely no idea what's going on, all she knows is Rhinox saved her and when he brings her back to be introduced she is super confused as to what's going on.>She remembers and is the best case scenario.She doesn't, you're misremembering the part where Rhinox asks how she knows his name wrong(It's because she was starting to come online while Rhinox was fixing her and Cheetor said his name).>The fact that Rampage remembers before he was entombed gives more evidence that they all had lives and memories before they were put into the escape pod/stasis pods. How? He's not one of the stasis crew, he's cargo that was never supposed to be woken up for this exact reason. In fact, the fact he does remember and not a single other stasis character has an onscreen line of dialogue saying they do is further evidence they didn't, because otherwise they would remember too, wouldn't they? If he remembers they should have, unless there was nothing to remember.
>>156092450>might have been seeking to reaffirm his entire existence by making her into a monster like him.Considering how he laughs when he sees just how vengeful and maniacal Depth Charge is and lets him kill him, there's some evidence to that.>show designed to sell toys, by the wayWhy did Beast Wars go so much harder with this stuff than any Western show before or after?
>>156092450yeah but he's fucked up because they tried to recreate the conditions that made starscream's spark immortalhow would you even HAVE a machine that turns people into babies? That's kind of a bizarre thing to even invent, especially if it only works on this one guy who officially doesn't exist.also yes, you understand their relationship perfectly. that episode was so wonderfully fucked up.>>156092483again, the normal crew ALSO never talks about their pasts. that's the thing, that's why people got confused. because syndicated writing demands that.
>>156092447No, the entire show as just too different and ugly. It was if they saw the matrix and neon genesis evangelion and said "fuck it we ball". It's too divorced from Beast Wars and too up it's own ass with the paper thin mysticism bullshit."I AM TRANSFORMED" and ugly morphing into their ugly as hell forms was just the shit icing on the shit cake. It's not beastwars and it's not really transformers either. If anything, with a few changes it could be an interesting take on a Go-Bots re-immagining.
>>156092498The only thing we really get is Rattrap making sleazy comments, but that's more to represent his character type than actual "lore".
>>156092498>again, the normal crew ALSO never talks about their pasts. Yes they do, all of the originals sans Cheetor mention it at some point in the series, Rattrap talked about a titty bar for fucks sake. Rampage's entire backstory is loredropped by Optimus.
>>156092333>why would rampage be a special case?Because he's the only time we're told and shown he existed before. > how would you turn someone into a baby? anon you're the one claiming they made everyone a protoform again. TF don't really have a baby equivalent most of the time. When they come online, theyr'e online, functional "adults" in most fiction. In G1, in BW, in the UT
>>156092391Thrust is a girl now.
>>156092528Rattrap talked about the bar with the topless robots, Rhinox loredopped a shitton of information during the Optimus resurrection section, Primal talked about Rampage's backstory and the entire lore of his own spaceship in addition to several offhand comments about how predacons were treated, Dinobot talked a ton about how they got the golden disks in the heist, Megatron talked about the Tri-Predicus council being idiots and the current situation there, Scorpinok lamented the lack of facilities on the planet compared to Cybertron, even Tarantulas talked about it when he was discussing his "true origin". Hell Depth Charge gave quite a lot of loredrops for his part.It is ONLY the awakened protoforms that don't remember... and Cheetor weirdly enough, that titty bar comment was directed at him and acting like he'd never been near the place, so either he doesn't know much or is a hell of a nepobaby.
Honestly it doesn't matter. It's like how people point out that some character in Wrath of Khan who talks to Khan as if he knows him never appeared in the episode Space Seed.Like, who the fuck cares? The question should be does a slight retcon on the nature of protoforms or how they function improve the story?I don't think it does because the last thing TF needs is a fucking love triangle sub plot.
>>156092528>>156092624I think the more important thing about the bar "Where they don't wear chestplates" is it was part of a longer speech he had about how excited he was to get back and show someone the sights. Which, you know, is kind of the important part, he clearly remembers Cybertron if he's talking about fond memories of certain locale. Kind of lost the plot in the robostripclub there.
>>156092483Her being confused after comming out of stasis can be explained thematically as someone waking up out of a coma or deep sleep or being knocked out. Her remembering his name openly states that she knows him. BUT HES PUT IN STASISHOW ELSE DO YOU EXPLAIN HIM HAVING THAT CRAB TANK FORM!Look. Protoforms are their basic form. The stuff of cybertron or whatever. The fact that they can even have a quasi-organic form in the first place shows that they are not your average metal and bolts transformers anymore. So that means that they can be "reformatted" back into the protoform state. And as we've seen, it's a very dangerous thing. Lastly, it's not just about remember their past. It's their relative maturity levels AFTER being brought on line. They have to have a basic personality which was informed by living a long life and maturing beforehand. So them being all babies with nothing else going on waiting to become new beings can't be 100% correct.If anything, the various instances of damage, energon poisoning, and predacon reformattting changes who they are. And that is something the maximals and predacons both have to consider. Major chunks of the story are devoted to this.
>>156092420>exactly. also? Cheetor is treated as a kid. we see him grow up as the show goes on. The pod guys are all treated as adults. they are obviously later in their life cycle.Cheetor gets treated like a kid because he's juvenile. Blackarachnia acts mature so she's treated as an adult. The way Transformers handle age is weird. Kup acts older than even Alpha Trion and isn't necessarily older than Shockwave or Elita One who were up and active for over 4 million years Basically how you act is how you're perceived
>>156092528exactly. Though every time, it was welcome.
>>156092754There is clear indications in transformers that transformers percieved maturity level is tied to their age. Bumblebee is in fact younger then optimous and ironhide. Same for cheetor and primal.
>>156092519>If anything, with a few changes it could be an interesting take on a Go-Bots re-immagining.It's funny because recently they dug up original plans for Beast Machines which included revealing Cybertronians were just humans originally
I think Cybertronians are obviously much more "human" than they were in the G1-ish days. But like >>156092648 said. A retcon that only the biggest nerds will care about is fine.>"Oh, it changes it so some protoforms aren't newborn? Okay."
>>156086633The other day I found unused concept art of Cheetor and a plant and it fucking haunts me. Someone PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE FUCK THIS COULD HAVE BEEN
>>156092420Not all protoforms were equal. At least one of those protoforms was blank without a spark for no given reason.Some could have been newborns, others old bots in stasis.
>>156092849>andI mean AS. HE IS A FUCKING PLANTalso this. Maybe just fix it by burning it all down like the end of The Thing
>>156092733>Her remembering his name openly states that she knows him.She doesn't know him. She makes it clear she doesn't know him. What she does know is she heard him trying to revive her when she was coming online, she has no idea what's going on and says that to everyone.>BUT HES PUT IN STASISCorrect?>HOW ELSE DO YOU EXPLAIN HIM HAVING THAT CRAB TANK FORM!Megatron gave it to him? During the "ITS ALIVE" scene? He didn't have it before. Did you forget he used to look like this before they locked him up? Because he was locked up and never meant to come out. They "Couldn't recycle" his spark.>Look. Protoforms are their basic form.It's also their "Newborn" forms and has been across literally every iteration of Transformers. All of them.>So that means that they can be "reformatted" back into the protoform state. I guess? Can't see any reason they couldn't.>And as we've seen, it's a very dangerous thing. Via brainwashing I guess, sure.>It's their relative maturity levels AFTER being brought on line.I'm sorry did you just forget the Combticons, which were made of junk on an island and came out with full personalities? Smart-Grimlock making a full Gestalt on the fly with spare parts? Clone-Dinobot in that show? He's there. Clone-dinobot shows you can put full personalities and maturity into a brand new thing.>They have to have a basic personality which was informed by living a long life and maturing beforehand. Maybe in a not-transformers show but Transformers has literally never worked like that, they come online and they just know who they are.>So them being all babies with nothing else going on waiting to become new beings can't be 100% correct.Swindle was a broken down car that Starscream dug out of the sand...>. And that is something the maximals and predacons both have to consideBy reprogramming them because they can reprogram them and that was Blackarachnia's entire problem before she got purple titties.
>>156092849>PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE FUCK THIS COULD HAVE BEENIf I were to guess, some early concept for a plantformer that ultimately became Botanica.
>>156092830Yeah, if the Spark is the person's essence then the body almost doesn't matter. You can just say that protoforms are just a general purpose appliance.Instead of scan + protoform = person, it's scan + protoform + spark (very important!) = person.
>>156092849Probably a vision or something.
>>156092822>Cybertronians were just humans originallyFUCK NOFire EVERYONE
>>156092624Not at cheetor, tigatron
>>156092830>>"Oh, it changes it so some protoforms aren't newborn? Okay."I mean when you think about it, if they can scan new vehicles and become that and look exactly like that, what exactly is stopping them from scanning a "Blank template" and becoming that? This is what they do. They can scan and change whenever they like. It's not like Optimus was always a truck here. Scanning a blank form to be prepared for whatever planet your explorer ass lands on makes sense.
>>156092816>Bumblebee is in fact younger then optimous and ironhide.And then they build new robots who are treated as much more mature and adult than him like the Aerialbots or Technobots. There's some indication that the Aerialbots had some memories retrained from being inanimate vehicles but like, how? Try not to think about it too much
>>156092733>e. They have to have a basic personality which was informed by living a long life and maturing beforehand.You sure about that?
>>156092980Pretty much. The whole "Silverbolt is Jetstorm" thing can basically just be "Those Maximals are up to something, find out what they're transporting and if it's good get it."Then the accidents and shit goes down so all that goes out the window entirely.You can even just say that Protoforms are how long-term stasis is done, because Protoforms use basically no energy. You can explain things like this however you like.
>>156092816>There is clear indications in transformers that transformers percieved maturity level is tied to their age.There's the idea of them acting more mature but multiple "Acts young" cybertronians are millions of years old and act less mature than ones literally made out of scrap they found in a pile. The Aerialbots are more mature than Bumblebee is and we saw them get made.
>>156092849>Someone PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE FUCK THIS COULD HAVE BEENI told you in the /toy/ thread, it's for a nightmare vision Optimus has. https://youtu.be/0rKOC5vB3pM?si=j3Q8LAaoq-hkrOSD&t=143
>>156092849https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rKOC5vB3pM2:33
>>156092942I mean they vetoed that and then never hired Mainframe again, so you got your wish. 26 years ago.
>>156092541name one example other than those
>>156092597that's my point. protoforming is clearly a stasis thing for travel. if, as you claim, it's their infant state, then how did they have the ability to DO that to Rampage? that's not just a machine you'd have lying around.>>156092624What exactly did Rhinox say about his previous life?>the heistIMMEDIATE previous life, yes. that does come up.
>>156093073>The Aerialbots are more mature than Bumblebee is and we saw them get made.Debatable. G1 Bumblebee wasn't really immature, just small and friendly. There was no indication he was significantly younger than the other bots.The Aerialbots meanwhile, despite sounding older, were portrayed as very naive due to being newborns.
>>156092889>She doesn't know him. She makes it clear she doesn't know him. What she does know is she heard him trying to revive her when she was coming online, she has no idea what's going on and says that to everyone.I haven't seen it in a while so I'll take your word for it. >Megatron gave it to him? During the "ITS ALIVE" scene? He didn't have it before. Did you forget he used to look like this before they locked him up? Because he was locked up and never meant to come out. They "Couldn't recycle" his spark.You seem to be arguing against your own point. I never said that, you did. And who gave it to him has nothing to do with it. >It's also their "Newborn" forms and has been across literally every iteration of Transformers. All of them.So? >I guess? Can't see any reason they couldn't....okay>Via brainwashing I guess, sure.Via losing their sense of identity, going insane like inferno and quickstrike, being reformatted(brainwashed)and the tragic end of transmutate. >I'm sorry did you just forget the Combticons, which were made of junk on an island and came out with full personalities? Smart-Grimlock making a full Gestalt on the fly with spare parts? Clone-Dinobot in that show? He's there. Clone-dinobot shows you can put full personalities and maturity into a brand new thing.The combaticons? You mean guys created from fully mature proto-sparks of decepticon criminals? >Maybe in a not-transformers show but Transformers has literally never worked like that, they come online and they just know who they are.The fucking ariel-bots. Remember them? Fucking computron? They act like children who were just born. They all have basic child like personalities. Computron gained their personality and intellect from a transfer from Grimlock. there are many episodes of the ariel bots wondering who and what they are. Even the dinobots had to be taught. >purple titties....What were we talking about again
>>156092865a mixture of the two? I guess that's possible, but it's WEIRD if so. >>156092889the idea of it being their baby form is very recent, people just ran with that wrong idea of BW.how the fuck would there be blank babies brought onboard as spare bodies? that's some fucked up stem cell shit.
>>156093191Rhinox says Rattrap is one of his best and oldest friend, which implies them knowing each other before the events of the series. Primal talks about knowing Depth Charge before the series and Depth Charge's whole hing with Rampage on starbase Rugby and Colony OmicronTarantulas being a secret police member
>>156092980>scan a protoform AS your altmode and then that's your new body til you scan something else.... that's... I can't tell if that's brilliant or retarded.>>156093236>oldest friendthe fuck you say? I don't remember that. Rattrap sounded like he was just hired on for this, he's not a member of their team at all
>>156093234>a mixture of the two? I guess that's possible, but it's WEIRD if so.yeah welcome to Transformers anon.
>>156093040There's an episode where one of the ariel bots acts like a petulant teen version of Bumblebee and considers joining the decepticons.
>>156093234There weren't. Blanks = died in their sleep. Their sparks are gone or destroyed. This is a big thing in sci-fi and fantasy where cryogenic sleep/stasis is used.
I much preferred people throwing around plot ideas rather than people arguing over wiki entries.
>>156092865I always figured the blank protoform for Primal's second body was just a Maximal who died in the pod and their spark extinguishedMegatron probably just killed whoever was in the pod he resurrected Dinobot in
>>156093457You're correct.
>>156093229>I haven't seen it in a while so I'll take your word for it.It's on for free on de tube> I never said that, you did...I what now>. And who gave it to him has nothing to do with it. Then why did you say, and I quote "How else do you explain him having a crab tank form"? You asked me to explain.>So?So that seems to be what they did in this show for these characters who universally come out of the pod acting like they don't remember shit one about their lives? Consistency and all.>Via losing their sense of identity, We literally do not see anyone have an identity before it, besides the one guy that specifically was never meant to wake up and if he had it shouldn't everyone else?>, going insane like inferno and quickstrikeQuickstrike isn't insane. Inferno is but that's because they fucked his brain to that of an ant, but Quickstrike is a regular asshole.>The combaticons? You mean guys created from fully mature proto-sparks of decepticon criminals? Did they seriously retcon a handful of computer chips into "Protosparks"? I'm asking, that's not what they are in the show.>The fucking ariel-botsDid you forget why those guys exist in the first place? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAn3Z1Q6lZY The Stunticons just got hit with a magic beam of creation.>Fucking computron? What's the difference between Grimlock programming them with his own intelligence and just programming a protoform?>Even the dinobots had to be taught. Because he gave them small brains and I swear to motherfucking god that is actually in the episode.>What were we talking about againColorful tittes.
>>156093248>.... that's... I can't tell if that's brilliant or retarded.For regular transformers it would be retarded, but BW transformers are pretty close to the same size with only a few Rattrap outliers in the bunch. Rampage being a big boi is because he was the hulk. But they're specifically headed to a planet and will need to scan something from said planet, most likely, so why not a base form that's uniform to make pods for?
>>156093457I don't think so. The maximals don't act like it's a corpse, just some spare parts. Rhinox at least would have said something if he were looking at a dead maximal.
>>156093234>how the fuck would there be blank babies brought onboard as spare bodies?Depends on how you define "Blank" because Tigertron had a chip that specifically told him what he's supposed to be that was damaged and obviously Blackarachnia had something underneath the "Shell program" Tranatulas put on her. Like, they exist as robots who just popped into the world for the first time.>>156093219>The Aerialbots meanwhile, despite sounding older, were portrayed as very naive due to being newborns.That is entirely and completely the fault of Optimus specifically requesting them be like that, that same episode states Vector Sigma can make them differently if it wants.
>>156086648underrated post
>>156091919Blackarachnia got Silverbolt to start fighting dirty and Silverbolt got her to start thinking selflessly. They balance each other out.
>>156092889>Megatron gave it to him? During the "ITS ALIVE" scene? He didn't have it before.anon he had the crab/tank form before Megatron found him. The protoform scanned a beast mode and rebuilt him.
>>156093522>It's on for free on de tubeOkay>> I never said that, you did>...I what nowThe thing about putting a new spark in a new body. That never happened, you said it did. That's what you mean by recycled spark right? >Then why did you say, and I quote "How else do you explain him having a crab tank form"? You asked me to explain.That's not the point. That proves he was a protoform and not awake. >So that seems to be what they did in this show for these characters who universally come out of the pod acting like they don't remember shit one about their lives? Consistency and all.That's not how a newborn acts, and they are born with some level of maturity and a few have memories. >We literally do not see anyone have an identity before it, besides the one guy that specifically was never meant to wake up and if he had it shouldn't everyone else?You know what. You're right. But those being called stasis pods and them having to rush to save them before they are brainwashed should tell you that they have an actual personality before that. >Quickstrike isn't insane. Inferno is but that's because they fucked his brain to that of an ant, but Quickstrike is a regular asshole.Okay. But that's still a thing. >Did they seriously retcon a handful of computer chips into "Protosparks"? I'm asking, that's not what they are in the show.The fuck are you talking about. We see him steal those energon cubes that we can call protosparks and shove them into WW2 vehicles. >Did you forget why those guys exist in the first place? The fuck does it matter? >What's the difference between Grimlock programming them with his own intelligence and just programming a protoform?Nothing. What's you point. >Because he gave them small brains and I swear to motherfucking god that is actually in the episode.Stupidity has nothing to do with maturity. >>What were we talking about again>Colorful tittes.
>>156093207>What exactly did Rhinox say about his previous life?Dark Designs is when Optimus talked about them being old friends.>IMMEDIATE previous life, yes. that does come up.I... what? Rhinox didn't mention the heist, Dinobot, Terrorsaur and Megatron did. The two dinos in the first episode, at that. It's why Dinobot was so pissed off and they specifically said it was on Cybertron when they fled.
>>156093207>then how did they have the ability to DO that to RampageWait but they didn't turn him into a protoform, the episode shows him being locked up in his hulk form and we don't see the body till he's Rampage. Optimus is THERE, in the flashback, he saw him get put in that bigass containment they find.
>>156093677He has a form before he's imprisoned in a stasis pod and forced into a protoform state. They all did.
>>156086633Let the writers watch beast wars first.
Weren't the writers explicitly told NOT to watch beast wars?
>>156093657> That's what you mean by recycled spark right?OHHH, okay, no. That was a line from the episode in question, when Optimus had his flashback to them putting Hulk-Rampage into the containment pod, he talks about them dumping Rampage and specifically says the line they're doing it "Because his spark couldn't be recycled", it was the in-episode explanation why they were dumping him and not just killing him before the trip.>That's not the point. That proves he was a protoform and not awake. He wasn't a protoform, he was that hulk form we saw and we saw them drag him into the pod in chains and being loaded up onto the ship. We see Optimus there too.>That's not how a newborn acts, and they are born with some level of maturity and a few have memories. None of them in show mention having memories, the closest we get is seeing Airrazor remember stuff when she's online but unstable in her debut episode to explain why she woke up and beat the shit out of Terrorsaur.>. But those being called stasis pods and them having to rush to save them before they are brainwashed should tell you that they have an actual personality before that.I think that's just preventing them from being turned into soldiers specifically because they're going to wake up and can just choose sides.>Okay. But that's still a thing.You mean Inferno? Yeah, reprogramming a baby is a thing, and Tarantulas fucked its brain up.>The fuck does it matter? Stunticons, who did not get the Optimus treatment and were perfectly mature.>Nothing. What's you point. So then they can get personalities programmed into them and be blank slates before that?>Stupidity has nothing to do with maturity. Tiny brains have a lot to do with the capacity to develop maturity.>Colorful tittesDamn right.
>>156086633The initial hook should be that Cybertron is under the control of technopurists, who try to chase down the Maximals to purge them due to what they consider tainted bio-organic influence. Megatron is forced to work with them for survival because he's also bio-organic. He's still obviously evil looking to find a way to turn the situation to his advantage, so the fun is watching everyone have to tolerate him and vice versa, especially when he's part of a 2 or 3 bot mission and is able to start whispering in peoples' ears about how much better it would be if they abandoned their Maximal ways and started going apeshit.On top of that, season 2 can show that the Tri-Predicate Council and their allies are the only remaining resistance against the technopurists. They don't immediately hand Megatron the keys to the planet because they still consider him a dangerous radical, but the extra "having to work with your enemies" layer would spice up the show.
>>156093698>He has a form before he's imprisoned in a stasis pod and forced into a protoform state.He's not in a protoform state, though? He's in that bigass form. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdaG2lZ5ZHA That's why his container is massive. Even Megatron's one comment on it is "A big stasis pod?... A big soldier."Then optimus clears up that is not a stasis pod, it's a prison they're dumping.
>>156093772Why would they have a technopurist cult...if 3/4ths of their history is filled with animal/insect formed bots. If their protoforms could become animalistic in the first place.It's stupid. >>156093808Larger stasis pod for larg amount of protoform mass.
>>156086633I like the show just fine, the toyline was an absolute shit show inconsistencies.
>>156093828>Larger stasis pod for larg amount of protoform mass.We see what he looks like >>156092889 it's not a protoform.
>>156093248He mentions it in the episode where they think Rattrap died testing Sentinel and a few other times them being close friends is mentioned
>>156093846People are changed into protoforms inside of stasis pods. I mean, how else did they keep him in check inside of it?
>>156094264>I mean, how else did they keep him in check inside of it?By putting him in stasis? We've shown in multiple episodes it seals you off and turns off your higher functions, such as when Dinobot was in there and couldn't wake up. It's also highly shielded, which is why he didn't go Transmetal. Stasis Lock in general is them being knocked out.They essentially put him into a coma.
>>156093828>Why would they have a technopurist cult...if 3/4ths of their history is filled with animal/insect formed bots.Same reason why any other culture eventually gets a "RETVRN" reactionary traditionalist movement. Especially with how much nuthugging both Optimus and Megatron were doing for their Autobot and Decepticon predecessors.
>>156094334Wait, when the hell was he put in a stasis pod?
>>156094409No...This essentially a cult dedicated to saying jogging is evil and walking is superior. It makes no logical sense.The fucking tripredicus counsel are animals in toy canon. Ravage is a goddamend casset panther. THE DINOBOTSI don't get it.
>>156094444They're not actually organic though. It's explicit that the beastformers beast forms are just simulcrums of organics, only skin deep.
>>156094468Yes thank you, that's my point.
This thread is slowly reverse engineering Beast Machines into Texhnolyze.
>>156094427I'm assuming the "he" in there is Dinobot. Yeah, sorry, wrote "it" instead of "Cr Chamber" because I knew what I meant and didn't think to clarify. Anyway he was put into STASIS, not a Stasis POD, two different things. Stasis is the robot-version of them getting knocked out with the in universe explanation that all except their life-required functions are offline, so no brain activity. The Cr Chamber puts you into stasis, it's the big thing Dinobot and Rhinox got shoved into during the Transmetal Wave so they didn't have to make more toys.Rampage essentially got knocked out and then put into a stasis pod, which turns off everything, specifically so they can shunt him into a black hole or some shit.
>>156088218>Cuckarachnia What are you cooking?
>>156092822>Optimus would be rendered mechanical (and unable to be reasoned with) >Optimus was so insanely cult like with his Oracle bullshit he became more of a machine than the guy trying to purge organic DNA Honestly I like this part. Mainly because I fucking hate BM Primal and this would be very karmic.
>>156094814Also I like the irony of the sparks being free as an accidental spiritual enlightenment. The human shit is...weird. I wouldn't mind it if it was a well written scifi show. Which this wasnt. There was a lot good scifi shit in BW though ironically so I wish they could have just got all those writers back.
>>156086812I wish Transtech happened so badly.
>>156093772Weren't the Tripedacus council evil?
>>156095079Yes and explicitly planning to overthrow the Maximal government in a coup, only to have their plans fucked with thanks to Megatron stealing the disks and putting everything at risk, so they sent Ravage out to get him back. Ravage saw the Megatron Forma de Gewun message and immediately turned into a suicide bomber.
>>156093457>I always figured the blank protoform for Primal's second body was just a Maximal who died in the pod and their spark extinguishedNo, it's just a blank. It even says "DUD" on it in Cybertronix, though it's upside-down.
>>156095230Maybe they mean deadWhy would they send empty ones on a research mission
>>156095286>Why would they send empty ones on a research missionWhy would they send dead ones on a research mission?Transferring Primal's spark to the blank did work out overall, so it does make one question why those were jettisoned if they would effectively work as an option to rescue a Maximal if normal repairs weren't enough with extensive damage.
>>156095447I assumed they just died before the Maximals or Predacons found themIt was a pretty major plot point in the episodes where the new recruits were introduced that the protoforms were extremely vulnerable in the pods and were at risk until they were activated and the DNA scanners chose Beast modes to protect them from the energon
>>156095531>I assumed they just died before the Maximals or Predacons found themIf that happened it wouldn't say "DUD" on it. Writing like that just wouldn't appear on the pod.
Years ago there was fan art of that first Optimus Primal toy, but with the head and weapons of his original body. I wish I could find it.
>>156095286>Maybe they mean deadBut there's only three letters... and it's their language? They made it up for the show, they would know if it meant dead or not. Or even supposing the texture artist didn't and it just so happened to spell Dud by coincidence, it's still just 3 letters. So... Ded?
>>156095756That sounds like the Masterpiece toy.
>>156086633i...i cant even look at it!
They should have just skipped to TransTech. The name Beast Machines even fits Transtech as a concept better.
>>156095796Meant this guy.
>>156093770>You mean Inferno? Yeah, reprogramming a baby is a thing, and Tarantulas fucked its brain up.Tarantulas specifically says that the ant beast mode is dominating his logic circuits. The stasis pod wasn't damaged when landing, the protoform was intact and safe, and it's not likely the Predacon chip Tarantulas used did any kind of damage. Inferno simply believed he was a real ant and acted like one because the hive-mindedness of a worker ant is all-encompassing and powerful.
>>156094334>>156094535You're thinking of the Regeneration Chamber, which repairs the Maximals. Dinobot and Rhinox did avoid the transmetalization due to being in it, same as how Waspinator avoided it because he got dropped into a CR tank.
>>156095286>>156095447>>156095763The spark went offline due to the energon surge from the Planet Buster and subsequent crash. The protoform is still there but it's just an empty housing now. Dinobot II was also created from a dead protoform.
>>156096486>The spark went offline due to the energon surge from the Planet Buster and subsequent crash.Again, it wouldn't say "DUD" on it. That was put there long before those events.
>>156096564It's a diagnostic readout telling them it's a blank. If it wasn't it would be saying something different.
>>156096446>You're thinking of the Regeneration Chamber,They called it a CR chamber in the episode though, and that's what the Wiki called it. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/CR_chamber
>>156086633>Fix it why should i
>>156086633Design wise Optimus should've, the very least, kept more of his Optimus familiarity.
>>156094926same desu
>>156098181Really bizarre how much they diverted from classic Optimus for this design after Optimal was basically a loose G1 homage. And Beast Machines came in the 15th anniversary year, too.
>>156088218>>156090957>>156091608My suggestion would be that they force Silverbolt's old memories as Jetstorm back on him. There's no reason for Predacons to give him the choice, especially when he had a mission.Then you can keep Beast Machines' aspect of Silverbolt hating how much he enjoys this. Though this time Blackarachnia's counter wouldn't "nah you good" it'll be a sense of understanding than actually, yes, being bad IS actually fun, which feels more reasoned than "bad is bad actually".Also if I understand the posts I suppose Cheetor comes to be the leader of the rebels?
>>156086633>Fix it What's there to fix?
>>156089519in Japan no, it started off as ambiguous with the canon but than later stuff made it canon and explained where the Autobots and Decepticons were with Transformers: The Battle of the Star Gate which was also made canon despite having characters in it that shouldn't be present at the time like Sixshot
>>156099861>My suggestion would be that they force Silverbolt's old memories as Jetstorm back on him.You know, this just made me realize.How would they know Silverbolt is Jetfire? Like, what exactly is the indicator? Because he has no idea about Cybertron and his body was mutated via the malfunctioning DNA scanner, so brain wise and body wise he's as likely to be Jetfire as Quickstrike is. We also saw his body before it got scanned and it's like, got some weird liquid stuff going on and the skeleton looks absolutely nothing like what he would eventually become. This just sounds like them leading up to them cramming the Jetstorm memories into his head only for them to discover "Wait, there was someone else there with you?... Was he per chance a raging asshole with a weird southern accent?... oh noooooo."That said with Thrust being a girl it would absofuckinglutely hilarious if he stole Quickstrike's girl by not being an asshole.
>>156101773I mean presumably the stasis pods have serial numbers that correspond to an ID like a social security number that should all be stored on the Axalon's computers so they can keep track of who has been sent on the missionTry to keep out Predacon infiltrators
THERE IS NOTHING TO FIX IS KINO FROM BEGINNING TO END
>>156101361Eventually that itself will be further explained as being Sixshot's father SixSwitch, an addition to the Sixshot-Quickswitch family tree. It will be a Takara exclusive repaint.
The Combiner Wars trilogy was ass but I kinda like the idea of the great war ending with Rodimus and Starscream becoming the new autobot and decepticon leaders while Optimus and Megatron get to enjoy retirement
>>156101773In my idea it'd be because of, basically, a serial number, or checksum or something. Sort of an inbuilt identifier that every Cybertronian has.A reason I wanted a Thrust/Jetstorm romance in the past was because it shows that Predacons aren't all just professional villains. Are Predacon couples toxic, or can they be like any other.
>>156086633Fix It with what, exactly?
>>156102192well mainly by the middle
>>156086633an unpopular opinion but I think BM is the most extreme case ever of a good series that is also a bad sequel
>>156086633Why? I actually liked it, sure it does have certain flaws and unfinished storyline, but for the Technorganics being an end game of transformers era of peace and harmony without villain such as megatron-like persona wreaking havoc
>>156086633Felix?
>>156096762>It's a diagnostic readout telling them it's a blank.It's printed on.
>>156107353I really wish they explored more what technoorganic means exactly. Transtech being the planned followup would'vebeen interesting.
>>156086633What's there to fix?
>>156095079I can't recall actually...
>>156107366Jr
