So, Fist of the North Star was inspired by Kurumada's manga in some way. So who truly is the father/grandfather of battle manga if we trace it back to the bread and butter of the "genre"?
I'm gonna hit you with some bad news. Making something original is not possible. If you had the power to trace it back you would end up with a caveman, then a chimp, then a fish, then a...
>>291937653that's a very lazy answer. you can make something original, as we have seen in the last century or so. just because it takes some inspiration from other things doesn't make it any lesser in that regard. people in the 1800s would never have imagined desolate, end of the world stories like mad max or even the waste land story. much less any scifi shit like the machine or childhood's end. things always come from something, fictional or real, there are core ideas that stem from something else and bloom into other ideas that create something new if mixed together or subverted. do you think in maybe 10,000 years from now, if modern civilization ended, we wouldn't have new types of stories being told?
>>291937508>So who truly is the father/grandfather of battle manga if we trace it back to the bread and butter of the "genre"?Probably Tiger Mask.
>>291938166>people in the 1800s would never have imagined desolate, end of the world stories like mad maxI have some bad news for you, anon. Basically, read more books.
>>291937803>much less any scifi shit like the machine or childhood's endahahahaha, sorry I forgot to read that part lol, you cant be serious
>>291937508>So who truly is the father/grandfather of battle manga if we trace it back to the bread and butter of the "genre"?The GOAT. It has all the original tropes of current shoneshit. Obviously Kurumada didn't invent them, but he was the genius who mixed them all in a single package. There's an after and before since Ring ni Kakero.
>>291938262show me any book that would have predicted an authoritarian world government taking everything over, and monitoring all our lives, from the 1800s
>>291938262????
>>291938410!!!!
>>291938331see, you get it. ring ni kakero was so good, it domino effected into a whole genre of its own. there are works before it but it was definitely up there with the classics, even if we gaijin don't realize that
>>291937508>So who truly is the father/grandfather of battle manga if we trace it back to the bread and butter of the "genre"?This is just saying that everyone who took inspiration from Kurumada wound up making better more popular works in comparison and that his output has no appeal unless you're a boomer spic
>>291938393Why so speciffic all of a sudden when you were talking about people in 1800s not being able to imagine the end of the world stories? Scared of losing? >>291938410Jules Verne, Louis Carrol, Lucy Maud Montgomery
>>291938242what does that have to do with wrasslin manga
>>291938515Noo, it's saying be laid the groundwork. If you actually read his shit, it's pretty hard and emotional. Way better than Dandacuck or My Shit Academia
>>291938609You know people have been trying to make some kind of joke name for dandadan but it always fails because they never role off the tongue or are close enough to the name to make sense
>>291937653>makes something completely original devoid of any inspirations in your way
>>291938331so, how comically weak is that girl?
>>291938521????My point is, stories don't need to be wholly something new. And if they are, something will come up. Just because something mixes up old shit means little. Many myths throughout history have similar themes. And you know why? Because they're human. The collective unconscious is all about the human factor. Things may change but the human factor stays the same, until it's so far removed from us
>>291938515I'm sorry you don't have balls
>>291937508Kurumada was inspired by Ashita no Joe, Sanpei Shirato's ninja titles, Mitsuteru Yokoyama and swordsmen novels. Everybody takes inspiration from somebody
>>291938799see, someone with sense
>>291938609>Noo, it's saying be laid the groundworkFor what? It doesn't change the fact that his workd are mid as shit and a lot of his "innovations" was a result of his own incompetence. Ring ni Kakero invention of the signature move came from him not understanding how boxing rules worked. Saint Seiya was invented out of pure spite because his previous work he put his heart into got canned so he went out to make slop readers would enjoy. Its no wonder he became a incompetent drunk who let his assistant embezzle money out of him for years.
>>291937508>So who truly is the father/grandfather of battle mangacyborg 009
>>291938609>If you actually read his shit, it's pretty hard and emotional.I read Ring and SS and they're the embodiment of MID. The fact that he made Ring in response to Ashita no Joe is even more hilarious.
>>291938744Wow, deflecting so hard? That is not what you said when you said:>people in the 1800s would never have imagined desolate, end of the world stories like mad max or even the waste land story. much less any scifi shit like the machine or childhood's endWhich is blatantly untrue. And now you are just deflecting like every LARPing illiterate when caught.
>>291937508The answer is always Tezuka. Or Ishinomori if you want to be a hipster about it.
>>291938744>Many myths throughout history have similar themes. And you know why?Because people still believe in pseudoscience for some reason.
>>291939008>>291939037so i see you are both gay faggots, hm
>>291939356>wait, you actually have a point here,,
>>291939009perhaps, i admit i never read it. only watched the devilman crossover where ryo is cool ass fuck desu
You can't make something from nothing.
>>291937508If you want the real answer, and not the shitpost answer, it's not a manga at all. It's this novel. I'm not even just throwing around technicalities. You'll often see this book (and the rest of Futaro Yamada's shared ninja universe. If you're into Fate/Stay Night, Makai Tensho is also part of this series) in Japanese articles about shonen battle manga. Because the general "the plot is just an excuse to get a bunch of guys with signature superpowers to beat the shit out of each other" originated here.These books were SUPER fucking popular in Japan because they originally ran in Japanese newspapers. So they seeped into every aspect of Japanese pop culture. To give a western comparison, it's like how basically every western fantasy story is influenced by Lord of the Rings in some way.
>>291937508>The VISUALS were inpired by another workFake "fans">AIEEEEE OWARI DA! THIS KILLS THE LEGACY OF OMAE NO SHINDERU! NIGGERMAN TASKETE!I blame those tryhard youtube essayist and their sheep viewers for the current state of otaku culture discussion on esl sites.
>>291939709OP probably thinks he's shitposting, but Ringu ni Kakero really is commonly considered to be the first shonen battle manga in Japan.
>>291939766>but Ringu ni Kakero really is commonly considered to be the first shonen battle manga in Japan.That's 8man
>>291937508We all knew he was inspired by Bruce Lee and Mad Max too.
>>291938799>swordsmen novelsWhich ones?
>>291940082Kurumada's favorite book is The Water Margin so I think he mean wuxia. Curiously, HnK and Dragon Ball take a lot of inspiration from wuxia too
>>291938721.so, how comically weak is that girl?She's his sister and coach and she falls in love with the rich rival asshole character. On their wedding day she has to watch her husband and brother fight
>>291939973If we're going with weird proto examples, I'm pretty sure Iga no Kagemaru is the first one.But if you dig through Japanese articles, Ringu ni Kakero is absolutely the one that's generally agreed to be "this is where the genre started"
>>291937803>as we have seen in the last century or soYou're underage.>much less any scifi shit Lucius wrote stories about fairly accurate space rockets over two thousand years ago.
>>291940476>Ringu ni Kakero is absolutely the one that's generally agreed to be "this is where the genre started"Your ass especially since nobody gives a fuck about RnK
>>291937803Heh, H.G. Wells is from the 1800s and wrote time travel political fiction. This would inspire Steins;Gate.
>>291937508OP probably is latinx but Kenshiro lifted from a lot of stuff not only saint seiya.
>>291941617>Kenshiro lifted from a lot of stuff not only saint seiya.Like what other than the mad max and bruce less comparisons?
>>291937508
>>291939520>the plot is just an excuse to get a bunch of guys with signature superpowers to beat the shit out of each otherIsn't that just journey to the west?
>>291937508>So who truly is the father/grandfather of battle manga if we trace it back to the bread and butter of the "genre"?Fukui with Igaguri-kun. If you're asking about the more fantastical aspects, then yes, >>291938331 is probably it, or had the biggest impact.
>>291937508Basically everything can be traced back to the beginning of time if you're willing to stretch. The Bible has parts that are like a shonen manga (which is part of why people like Matt Walsh deserve nothing but eye rolls).You want to find a cutoff point where something stops being "inspired by" or "a precursor to" and becomes explicitly recognizable as the thing in question. FotNS is at least a battle manga starring big muscle anime martial arts guys with ki auras who have a greater capacity for destruction than modern weaponry.
>>291937508Fist of the North Star is Violence Jack with less rape and better character art.
>>291942599>"inspired by"*"an inspiration for"You know what I meant.
>>291938166you mean purple mask or tiger girl?
>>291941673Probably Ryoichi Ikegami's collaborations with Tetsu Kariya, namely Otokogumi. It's more obvious in the early prototype versions of Hokuto no Ken though.
>>291940386I guess he's also the progenitor of imouto NTR
The English TL of Ring ni Kakero is on the Ashura arc which even the series's biggest glazer despises. I don't doubt many series were influenced by it, but I can't imagine it's the only source. Ken can make physical contact with his opponents, and the fights don't involve the same set of uppercuts and cross counters every time. If you look at Chiba and Kajiwara's work on Ashita no Joe, you see way more character drama, way better choreography, and much longer fights.
>>291939008Nigga, he was better then Toriyama's lack of caring.
>>291941617>Plantpod termFuck you Puto baboso>>291942691With a less morally corrupt main character that only kills the baddies but will be a total dashing knight who protect the innocent unlike Jack who starts as a villain that fights other villains.
>>291938393the Bible
>>291941617Latinos are the biggest Kurumada fans but also his biggest haters. They accuse him of cancelling the anime of TLC and want him to die to pass the franchise to Teshirogi
>>291939493true, probably the coolest version of ryo ever
>>291938331Ring ni Kakero was influenced by Ashita no Joe and Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daishou, but it is probably the oldest series that has the characteristic shounenshit flavor that you can still recognize in modern series of the same genre. btw Otoko Ipiki is a great example of why being a classic isn't the same as being a masterpiece, the MC is just as much of a gary stu as the average isekaishit MC.
>>291945482I think the Rerise of Poseidon guy would be a better chosen successor
>>291937653Real life is the original inspiration for everythingI'm probably sure the Iliad was based on an IRL war but then got gods and shit involved
>>291945079The Ashura arc is by a long margin the most boring shounenshit arc I have ever seen. It's just Kurumada's basic formula in it's most raw and unpolished form.
>>291937508>So who truly is the father/grandfather of battle mangaThis obsure ass shit influenced DB I supposehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJW9UHLv-LU
>>291937803You may not like the truth, it’s ok
